Kalin Shrine (Hard Mode) [Patch 10.4.4.1000]

    Quote from Ryzek
    Quote from Brontes

    The boss works as intended. It is supposed to be a direct damage check for the party and a tankiness check for the, well, tank. The boss gains 5% pAtk and 5% damage every second whilst losing defense.

    Quote from Merkur

    The boss is stacking dmg into cosmic values, I think there is a big bug in boosting the damage

    I like the design of this boss, because it is not only a gear check, but also a tank check...Through a lot of runs i can confirm as well that some "brain afk" Gold gear Tanks can die even earlier as Red geared tanks. So if you know how to tank, it is even possible to stay alive until 70 Stacks with Red gear. With Gold gear 70+ ... idk. And if the Boss is not dead until that point, then the group is just too weak.


    Greetings

    I understand, I like the boss idea too.


    However, I do not like the time when such a change is introduced. From the beginning of the instance? Okey!


    But in the current situation, changing this boss is not fair to other players, it is simply not fair.


    Anticipating arguments about equality distorted in my opinion. Soon Int or someone will write that everyone had equal chances and could kill this boss at that time.


    Well no! This is not equality, because if someone could not at that time because life, then changing it right now is no equality.


    [I am referring to Ryzek's post which has been removed and I have not had time to quote it.]


    The change that was made was necessary because I had the feeling that I was playing Tomb Raider. [ABOUT WB]


    In addition to this mechanic, the boss has many difficult mechanics, as evidenced by the fact that only 3 guilds killed him.


    When it comes to KS, the situation is different. WB has been made easier, KS is boosted, it doesn't matter which is more difficult, I lose more nerves on KS. These are changes that will remodel the gameplay.


    When we saw the first boss, we said to ourselves:

    "Here, the tactic is kait, there is a reason why the boss is so slow, and the hits he gives later are impossible to beat, so you clearly have to cheat"


    And now suddenly, after 2 weeks, the tactic is completely changed and you have to have a pro tank and a pro team. I don't understand how the inequality that arises here can be overlooked

    Everyone has the possibility to beat KS first boss. And the boss room is really small. I don't think it was intended kiting it.

    And if it was not intended and is fixed now, why complaining about a bugfix? If other bosses are buggy and get fixed, nobody complains, but here? I don't understand the world anymore

    Quote from Merkur

    When we saw the first boss, we said to ourselves:

    "Here, the tactic is kait, there is a reason why the boss is so slow, and the hits he gives later are impossible to beat, so you clearly have to cheat"

    Well when I saw the boss I thought:
    "Great, finally a boss where a tank has to know his skills and can't be afk (like in every other ini)".


    So I guess its all a matter of perspective ;)

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Quote from xLutinex

    Everyone has the possibility to beat KS first boss. And the boss room is really small. I don't think it was intended kiting it.

    And if it was not intended and is fixed now, why complaining about a bugfix? If other bosses are buggy and get fixed, nobody complains, but here? I don't understand the world anymore

    This is not a complaint, it is expressing my opinion. Just because the room is small does not mean you can't kait, if room were big it would be even easier, so that's not an argument.


    The fact that everyone had the opportunity and now no one has anymore is not an equality! That it was introduced so late when the boss made sense anyway isn't fair, is discriminating against players who didn't.


    And yes, it shouldn't be changed.

    Quote from Laisha
    Quote from Merkur

    When we saw the first boss, we said to ourselves:

    "Here, the tactic is kait, there is a reason why the boss is so slow, and the hits he gives later are impossible to beat, so you clearly have to cheat"

    Well when I saw the boss I thought:
    "Great, finally a boss where a tank has to know his skills and can't be afk (like in every other ini)".


    So I guess its all a matter of perspective ;)

    The fact that you are going afk on the boss does not mean you well. Even if you are a pro tank. And let's not say that suddenly the tank has to prove itself, because if you have such a powerful eq and a team, you can go "afk" anyway.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    The boss works as intended. It is supposed to be a direct damage check for the party and a tankiness check for the, well, tank. The boss gains 5% pAtk and 5% damage every second whilst losing defense.

    Since the boss increases damage every second by 5% and patt, does the damage dealt to him by 5% and defense decrease by 5% every second?

    Players will incrementally deal more damage up to their maximum, which is reached at 20 stacks regardless for gear (as the boss then reaches 0 defense).


    Quote from Merkur

    For days you could kill this boss without a tank, it was hard to find one that was powerful enough.

    We, as the team, are not here to tell people how to play their classes, but the instance was tested with red plate gear from ROFL as knights and champions; the latter struggled hard in longer (longer than 15 seconds) fights, while the knight had a decently easy time for about 16 seconds - from then on, immunities can be used. Golden Tank gear extended this time to more than 20 seconds. Other mechanics that reduce damage heavily can also be employed to increase the fights length further.


    The boss is supposed to be killed within the first 30 seconds; our data shows that there was not a single run of heavily undergeared players that kited boss one but made it beyond boss two. This is a non-issue as, comparatively, the iron rune warrior is the easiest boss in the entire instance. If your tank couldn't survive this boss without major hassle, they couldn't survive locathas freeze.

    Quote from Merkur

    For days you could kill this boss without a tank, it was hard to find one that was powerful enough. And now that these most ambitious players have obtained artifacts by defeating this boss along the way without any problems, you will now "patch the hole" preventing weaker players from doing so.


    It is indeed a very fine politics, very kind of you to wait for us strong players to make artifacts and now you are making it difficult for the weaker ones.

    With the addition of refined artefacts the grind (overall) will have to be re-done by the "big guys" too; I realize that the changes may seem frustrating without specifics but it is important to note that the devil lies in the details here.


    That being said, the entire dynamic that one could obtain an artefact without running the full instance was a design flaw; one that had to be fixed. The solution to create an upgrade so that players are incentivized to fully run the instance is just the natural progression.


    The base-equipment for running kalin comfortably is a golden ROFL set.

    There was a great idea with a board with rt. Why don't you add it? The weaker ones will be able to do q, but will not get the item to upgrade the artifact. And on the higher difficulty level, you'll add your changes as a challenge to players looking to improve artifact. Isn't it a good idea for everyone to be happy? Why makes changes for the strong, hitting the weaker with such solutions?

    Quote from Brontes

    Other mechanics that reduce damage heavily can also be employed to increase the fights length further.

    Am I to understand that all types of reductions work on this ini? : D


    Quote from Brontes

    If your tank couldn't survive this boss without major hassle, they couldn't survive locathas freeze.

    And yet, my tank will not stand on the 1st boss, and it will easily stand on the locath

    Quote from Brontes

    With the addition of refined artefacts the grind (overall) will have to be re-done by the "big guys" too; I realize that the changes may seem frustrating without specifics but it is important to note that the devil lies in the details here.

    But getting to the stage where we are has been made difficult for these players, you will not tell me that it is not. You won't tell me it's easier for them than for them, or the same.



    Quote from Brontes

    The base-equipment for running kalin comfortably is a golden ROFL set.

    It's understandable, my whole guild has one



    Quote from Brontes

    That being said, the entire dynamic that one could obtain an artefact without running the full instance was a design flaw; one that had to be fixed. The solution to create an upgrade so that players are incentivized to fully run the instance is just the natural progression.

    I would like to ask, since this is an oversight, how did this happen, if there was no such possibility at hoto.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    Other mechanics that reduce damage heavily can also be employed to increase the fights length further.

    Am I to understand that all types of reductions work on this ini? : D

    Damage reduction skills like Shield of Discipline or the Warrior/Priests Barbarian Battle Cry work, if that was your question. This also includes the Warlock ISS or similar things. Direct increases of defense will have their effectiveness drastically lowered due to the increase in attack countering the increase in defense.


    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    If your tank couldn't survive this boss without major hassle, they couldn't survive locathas freeze.

    And yet, my tank will not stand on the 1st boss, and it will easily stand on the locath

    Locatha, more than anything, is a reaction based boss and not a stat-wise tank check. These two bosses do not compare.
    Edit: Locatha is Boss three, I meant to write Yusalien's freeze in my original post. :)

    Quote from Brontes

    Locatha, more than anything, is a reaction based boss and not a stat-wise tank check. These two bosses do not compare.


    Quote from Brontes

    If your tank couldn't survive this boss without major hassle, they couldn't survive locathas freeze.

    The complexity of your argues has lost me. First you compare the two bosses, and then when I answer this argument, you write that I can't compare them?


    Quote from Brontes

    Damage reduction skills like Shield of Discipline or the Warrior/Priests Barbarian Battle Cry work, if that was your question. This also includes the Warlock ISS or similar things. Direct increases of defense will have their effectiveness drastically lowered due to the increase in attack countering the increase in defense.

    My question was if every skill in the game that reduces damage taken works for KS, I'm not just talking about the tank here. From my observations and also following this thread, it appears that this is not the case. A similar situation took place at hoto.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    With the addition of refined artefacts the grind (overall) will have to be re-done by the "big guys" too; I realize that the changes may seem frustrating without specifics but it is important to note that the devil lies in the details here.

    But getting to the stage where we are has been made difficult for these players, you will not tell me that it is not. You won't tell me it's easier for them than for them, or the same.

    It is slightly harder than it was before, so much is true; but the soft requirement of a golden rofl set (and frankly, enough skill to play the events) is enough to incentivize the weaker players to seek alternatives to Kalin until they are ready. This is intended.


    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    That being said, the entire dynamic that one could obtain an artefact without running the full instance was a design flaw; one that had to be fixed. The solution to create an upgrade so that players are incentivized to fully run the instance is just the natural progression.

    I would like to ask, since this is an oversight, how did this happen, if there was no such possibility at hoto.

    New systems provide new frameworks and challanges - and the idea that one may upgrade materials that drop was supposed to take the pressure off the players, get the progression towards the artefact more fluid and make it easier to split the loot for random parties, as one could then simply divide by the number of players in the party to distribute. During testing, the focus laid on mostly damage values, mechanics, the artefacts themselves. Mistakes have been made and we'll avoid them in the future! We're only human, after all.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Merkur

    The complexity of your argues has lost me. First you compare the two bosses, and then when I answer this argument, you write that I can't compare them?


    Quote from Brontes

    Edit: Locatha is Boss three, I meant to write Yusalien's freeze in my original post. :)

    I didn't notice any editing. Nevertheless, my tank will also defeat the second boss without any problems. Not only that, he will defeat every next one, only the first one, not :)

    Quote from Merkur

    I didn't notice any editing. Nevertheless, my tank will also defeat the second boss without any problems. Not only that, he will defeat every next one, only the first one, not

    I think he means the freeze phase of b2, if all except 1 gets freeze. And if tank and healer is frozen, tanks can get struggles with lower eq

    Quote from Brontes

    It is slightly harder than it was before, so much is true; but the soft requirement of a golden rofl set (and frankly, enough skill to play the events) is enough to already lock the weaker players out of the instance. This is intended.

    So the equality you have written so much about here does not exist. Additionally, you consciously increase the disproportion between better and weaker players.


    You wrote that the weaker player will not be able to cope because he knows the game too little (in general), so to make it even more difficult for him, you add another buff that the stronger player will overcome (it will even be easier for him with the artifact).


    If this is not increasing barriers between players, then I don't know what increasing barriers between players is anymore.


    Quote from Brontes

    New systems provide new frameworks and challanges - and the idea that one may upgrade materials that drop was supposed to take the pressure off the players, get the progression towards the artefact more fluid and make it easier to split the loot for random parties, as one could then simply divide by the number of players in the party to distribute. During testing, the focus laid on mostly damage values, mechanics, the artefacts themselves. Mistakes have been made and we'll avoid them in the future! We're only human, after all.

    All right. However, I will note that if there had been a consultation with players, this would not have been a problem.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Merkur

    I didn't notice any editing. Nevertheless, my tank will also defeat the second boss without any problems. Not only that, he will defeat every next one, only the first one, not :)

    I cannot directly comment on why that is as the specific circumstances are not known to me, but thank you for bringing this observation to the table. We will be monitoring the damage dealt by the first boss closely following this patch.


    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Brontes

    Damage reduction skills like Shield of Discipline or the Warrior/Priests Barbarian Battle Cry work, if that was your question. This also includes the Warlock ISS or similar things. Direct increases of defense will have their effectiveness drastically lowered due to the increase in attack countering the increase in defense.

    My question was if every skill in the game that reduces damage taken works for KS, I'm not just talking about the tank here. From my observations and also following this thread, it appears that this is not the case. A similar situation took place at hoto.

    The only things that cannot be reduced in damage are certain damage over time debuffs and fixed damage. The only source of fixed damage in this instance are the muses which have direct counterplay to their flat damage. This consists of proper positioning or shielding.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Merkur

    I didn't notice any editing. Nevertheless, my tank will also defeat the second boss without any problems. Not only that, he will defeat every next one, only the first one, not

    I think he means the freeze phase of b2, if all except 1 gets freeze. And if tank and healer is freezed, tanks can get struggles with lower eq

    You may be right, but we didn't notice such problems on our runes.


    We always defrosted the heal first, then the tank, and there were no problems with that. Additionally (here I can be wrong, I didn't tank ks), but when the freeze tactic is triggered, does the boss stop his attacks for 20 seconds? If I remember correctly, the description of his buff is something like this: "takes no damage, unable to attack"

    Quote from Merkur

    Additionally (here I can be wrong, I didn't tank ks), but when the freeze tactic is triggered, does the boss stop his attacks for 20 seconds?

    If you didn't tank KS, how do you know you can't tank b1 but the rest?

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from xLutinex

    I think he means the freeze phase of b2, if all except 1 gets freeze. And if tank and healer is freezed, tanks can get struggles with lower eq

    You may be right, but we didn't notice such problems on our runes.


    We always defrosted the heal first, then the tank, and there were no problems with that. Additionally (here I can be wrong, I didn't tank ks), but when the freeze tactic is triggered, does the boss stop his attacks for 20 seconds? If I remember correctly, the description of his buff is something like this: "takes no damage, unable to attack"

    If I remember correctly, you can interrupt (mistakenly?) the cast. Still no damage can be dealt but the boss hits you

    Quote from Laisha
    Quote from Merkur

    Additionally (here I can be wrong, I didn't tank ks), but when the freeze tactic is triggered, does the boss stop his attacks for 20 seconds?

    If you didn't tank KS, how do you know you can't tank b1 but the rest?

    Because I have a tank in the team? I've already done some runes with him, not only that, I have a few other tanks in the guild that I have been with and each of them will stand all bosses except the first.



    Quote from xLutinex

    If I remember correctly, you can interrupt (mistakenly?) the cast. Still no damage can be dealt but the boss hits you

    If that is true, that is bug and should be repair. If you break the cast and you still can't beat the boss, but he does you yes, it doesn't make any sense to do it, right? Is this some mystical tactic I don't know about? Perhaps I missed something, if so, please correct it.



    Regarding the reduction of the dmg. We got the impression that reductions from wrl/d do not affect on KS.

    Quote from Merkur

    Because I have a tank in the team? I've already done some runes with him, not only that, I have a few other tanks in the guild that I have been with and each of them will stand all bosses except the first.

    Dieing at which stack? I also tanked and a red geared tank of us. It is definitly possible for every red gear tank to 40 stacks without problems

    Quote from Mieteq

    Tbh it is waste of time to write with this brontes. First he writes you can get artefact without doing full ini. Now he writes this things xD. Man, are you drunk?

    Not very cultural comment, but personally I have similar feelings. It will not be the first time that a discussion with the team, and on arguments, does not lead to anything.



    @lutine

    I will ask him when he gets out of bed: D

    As DPS I don't pay attention to which stack the tank is falling, because when it rains I usually have other worries on my mind.