Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Another bunch of propositions mostly for mdps I play. Need to test wd/d and d/wl before talking about them again.

-W/M: Imagine how it is to lose 3 seconds stacking up electrical rage every 10 seconds if we have nothing to hit. Please remove its gcd. Aoes of this class are really low which are even lower in most places because we need to do them without stacking x3 properly.

Mages:

-M/S: Although I really apreciate the increased dmg of the pet cast, it only works in bosses because they aren't moving. During the ini it barely does any hits on mobs, idk how could you fix it but it would be really cool if you make it usefull like rest of pets in game.

-M/Ch: 2 problems. Rage management and like always, plasma arrow disaster. I always thought an elite skill should help the class and not harm it. If Electric current arc is there to help the class, it should make plasma arrow instant or lower cast, not higher. This skill is just a pre-buff skill, we don't care about its dmg. The 100 times (150 if Im not even able to finish its cast xD) I use it during ini I just suffer.

To solve rage problem increase static field recovery rage per hit to 15 and/or change Electrolysis Power (still old useless skill from before rework) with something similar to Enraged from warrior.

-Now the holy trynity of crap sustained mages M/WL, M/R and M/P. They have their good things like supporting (MWL or MR) or awesome burst (MP). Any increase in their single dmg sustain, like I asked millions of times, would make these classes more atractive. Remove rising tide cd (mp), magical shadow stab without gcd (mr), or improved soul pain without cast (mwl) could help them. If a nerf in their op things is needed I would prefer that than being mostly afk most of ini because mobs dmg is non existat (except tons of aoes for mr and mp ofc). Im more of seeking balanced classes than having some of them doing incredibly overpowered things but terrible in other stuffs.

Good thing, m/wl 30% def debuff rework its awesome, thx for that.

-Bug reports: Warrior/priest, berserk dmg isn't working well. Idk if the range is too low or there are other buffs bugging it but I tried in a few runs yesterday with an alt and most of the times i couldn't get the buff on my main character.

Another propositions: w/p, make 491466 raid buff, idk why is still group buff. Wd/d destruction blade 10% mattack, increase its range, atm its only for melee mdps and that is only mch and wm.

Consideration for wd/w:

I suggest to make the combo earth oriented and propose following changes to consider (Frantic Briar already doing earth):

Change Charge Chop, Power of the Wood Spirit, Double Chop, Beast chop and Pulse Mastery to do earth, add earth damage modifier buff (e.g. 30% with offset of increasing all received damage by 10%) and change for the Frantic Briar instead of decreasing damage dealt by targets to raw increase of the earth damage by 30% for 5 secs (similar idea to ch/wd explosion wave) if aoe hits a target . The numbers may need to be adjusted a bit after few tests, those I proposed are fair bit lower than that for ch/wd but of course wd/w has feral leader (50% damage buff) while ch/wd has general champ buff of 21% from the shadowforge, so at the end it would make combo on an equal footing.

Another thing, wd/w does not have any combo specific physical attack speed buffs, one possibility is to add to the Pulse Mastery (you need to apply beast sigil to use the skill) also 10% or so increase in physical attack speed (would work similar to phantom cleave of wd/wl, which also requires noxious slash applied).

The above just few ideas how to make wd/w more viable with exact numbers tuned up/down depending on the performance.

Additional comment re wd oak walker - I wonder given that for example psychic shadow increases pcrit by 1200 and pcrit damage by 20%, while oak walker gets only 200 pcrit and 10% pcrit damage, a buff of the oak walker to get it similar to the other pet would make sense for wd combos other than wd/wl? Note that oak walker has ISS (Chaos of greed) that enables 6% damage increase, so I think keeping the pcrit damage of 10% is fine but perhaps consider increasing pcrit to 1200 instead of 200?

Cheers!

Quote from Madox

Another bunch of propositions mostly for mdps I play. Need to test wd/d and d/wl before talking about them again.

-W/M: Imagine how it is to lose 3 seconds stacking up electrical rage every 10 seconds if we have nothing to hit. Please remove its gcd. Aoes of this class are really low which are even lower in most places because we need to do them without stacking x3 properly.

Mages:

-M/S: Although I really apreciate the increased dmg of the pet cast, it only works in bosses because they aren't moving. During the ini it barely does any hits on mobs, idk how could you fix it but it would be really cool if you make it usefull like rest of pets in game.

-M/Ch: 2 problems. Rage management and like always, plasma arrow disaster. I always thought an elite skill should help the class and not harm it. If Electric current arc is there to help the class, it should make plasma arrow instant or lower cast, not higher. This skill is just a pre-buff skill, we don't care about its dmg. The 100 times (150 if Im not even able to finish its cast xD) I use it during ini I just suffer.

To solve rage problem increase static field recovery rage per hit to 15 and/or change Electrolysis Power (still old useless skill from before rework) with something similar to Enraged from warrior.

-Now the holy trynity of crap sustained mages M/WL, M/R and M/P. They have their good things like supporting (MWL or MR) or awesome burst (MP). Any increase in their single dmg sustain, like I asked millions of times, would make these classes more atractive. Remove rising tide cd (mp), magical shadow stab without gcd (mr), or improved soul pain without cast (mwl) could help them. If a nerf in their op things is needed I would prefer that than being mostly afk most of ini because mobs dmg is non existat (except tons of aoes for mr and mp ofc). Im more of seeking balanced classes than having some of them doing incredibly overpowered things but terrible in other stuffs.

Good thing, m/wl 30% def debuff rework its awesome, thx for that.

-Bug reports: Warrior/priest, berserk dmg isn't working well. Idk if the range is too low or there are other buffs bugging it but I tried in a few runs yesterday with an alt and most of the times i couldn't get the buff on my main character.

Another propositions: w/p, make 491466 raid buff, idk why is still group buff. Wd/d destruction blade 10% mattack, increase its range, atm its only for melee mdps and that is only mch and wm.

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Are you kidding me? The damage of a warrior / mage should be reduced by 20-30 percent at least. You're asking to simplify it. Nonsense. Ask them to give you the skill to kill everything and everyone? I'm playing a warlock / rogue who needs to use 5 skills before doing damage. This is not easy and not every boss has time to do everything right, and you are worried about one skill.

Quote from Rakot_Hades

Additional comment re wd oak walker - I wonder given that for example psychic shadow increases pcrit by 1200 and pcrit damage by 20%, while oak walker gets only 200 pcrit and 10% pcrit damage, a buff of the oak walker to get it similar to the other pet would make sense for wd combos other than wd/wl? Note that oak walker has ISS (Chaos of greed) that enables 6% damage increase, so I think keeping the pcrit damage of 10% is fine but perhaps consider increasing pcrit to 1200 instead of 200?

Cheers!

Sounds good, however I'd suggest making Chaos of Greed work with every warden pet, since it's an iss.

Talking about iss, Iron Focus (ToS is) should be changed, since it's pointless atm. I'd say change it to increase physical critrate by 1k instead of accuracy.

Warden/Warlock

• Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
  
  It was planned to strengthen the class, with this change, its damage only decreased.

Quote from Serenadae

Quote from Rakot_Hades

Additional comment re wd oak walker - I wonder given that for example psychic shadow increases pcrit by 1200 and pcrit damage by 20%, while oak walker gets only 200 pcrit and 10% pcrit damage, a buff of the oak walker to get it similar to the other pet would make sense for wd combos other than wd/wl? Note that oak walker has ISS (Chaos of greed) that enables 6% damage increase, so I think keeping the pcrit damage of 10% is fine but perhaps consider increasing pcrit to 1200 instead of 200?

Cheers!

Sounds good, however I'd suggest making Chaos of Greed work with every warden pet, since it's an iss.

Talking about iss, Iron Focus (ToS is) should be changed, since it's pointless atm. I'd say change it to increase physical critrate by 1k instead of accuracy.

i am fine with that but iIn that case change pcrit damage of the oak walker to 20% and match pcrit to 1200 if that ISS would work for all pets, that would make sense

Quote from TimRoys

Warden/Warlock

• Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
  
  It was planned to strengthen the class, with this change, its damage only decreased.

You missed to read:

• Changed Power of the Wood Spirit to do not require a target to be casted, increased radius to 80.
• Removed Energy Absorb global cooldown trigger.
• Increased Essence of Poison poison damage gain to 30%.
• Changed Phantom Cleave to do not trigger global cooldown after channelling ends.

all this mini changes is quality of life + pushing the class a bit.

Quote from TimRoys

Warden/Warlock

• Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
  
  It was planned to strengthen the class, with this change, its damage only decreased.

Yes that buffed sustained some (from 24% to 30% so 6% increase) but decreased burst quite a bit (from 35% to 24% so 11% loss, perhaps consider changing the corruption damage buff to 28% (from 35% it was before but increase from the proposed 24%). That would keep burst slightly lower than before, and will help the sustain.

Quote from Rakot_Hades

Additional comment re wd oak walker - I wonder given that for example psychic shadow increases pcrit by 1200 and pcrit damage by 20%, while oak walker gets only 200 pcrit and 10% pcrit damage, a buff of the oak walker to get it similar to the other pet would make sense for wd combos other than wd/wl? Note that oak walker has ISS (Chaos of greed) that enables 6% damage increase, so I think keeping the pcrit damage of 10% is fine but perhaps consider increasing pcrit to 1200 instead of 200?

Cheers!

I think it's a good idea.

Quote from Ganga

Quote from Madox

Another bunch of propositions mostly for mdps I play. Need to test wd/d and d/wl before talking about them again.

-W/M: Imagine how it is to lose 3 seconds stacking up electrical rage every 10 seconds if we have nothing to hit. Please remove its gcd. Aoes of this class are really low which are even lower in most places because we need to do them without stacking x3 properly.

Mages:

-M/S: Although I really apreciate the increased dmg of the pet cast, it only works in bosses because they aren't moving. During the ini it barely does any hits on mobs, idk how could you fix it but it would be really cool if you make it usefull like rest of pets in game.

-M/Ch: 2 problems. Rage management and like always, plasma arrow disaster. I always thought an elite skill should help the class and not harm it. If Electric current arc is there to help the class, it should make plasma arrow instant or lower cast, not higher. This skill is just a pre-buff skill, we don't care about its dmg. The 100 times (150 if Im not even able to finish its cast xD) I use it during ini I just suffer.

To solve rage problem increase static field recovery rage per hit to 15 and/or change Electrolysis Power (still old useless skill from before rework) with something similar to Enraged from warrior.

-Now the holy trynity of crap sustained mages M/WL, M/R and M/P. They have their good things like supporting (MWL or MR) or awesome burst (MP). Any increase in their single dmg sustain, like I asked millions of times, would make these classes more atractive. Remove rising tide cd (mp), magical shadow stab without gcd (mr), or improved soul pain without cast (mwl) could help them. If a nerf in their op things is needed I would prefer that than being mostly afk most of ini because mobs dmg is non existat (except tons of aoes for mr and mp ofc). Im more of seeking balanced classes than having some of them doing incredibly overpowered things but terrible in other stuffs.

Good thing, m/wl 30% def debuff rework its awesome, thx for that.

-Bug reports: Warrior/priest, berserk dmg isn't working well. Idk if the range is too low or there are other buffs bugging it but I tried in a few runs yesterday with an alt and most of the times i couldn't get the buff on my main character.

Another propositions: w/p, make 491466 raid buff, idk why is still group buff. Wd/d destruction blade 10% mattack, increase its range, atm its only for melee mdps and that is only mch and wm.

Display More

Are you kidding me? The damage of a warrior / mage should be reduced by 20-30 percent at least. You're asking to simplify it. Nonsense. Ask them to give you the skill to kill everything and everyone? I'm playing a warlock / rogue who needs to use 5 skills before doing damage. This is not easy and not every boss has time to do everything right, and you are worried about one skill.

Display More

Have you played the Warrior/Mage after the latest changes? What he stated is correct that a) aoes (although slightly better than before) are still a joke (even with a ton of cast speed) and that b) the Warrior/Mage has to stack a buff 3 times BEFORE he can actually use his rota/skills. Because maybe you noticed that this class doesn't only use Whitehits anymore to deal damage.

And I've played both Warrior/Mage and Warlock/Rogue, and it's way easier to stack the debuffs on Warlock/Rogue because, except for Soul Poisoned Fang, the skills don't trigger a gcd which is exactly what Madoxx asked.

Also I dealt in rofl, overall, more damage with the Warlock/Rogue than I did with the Warmage.

Greetings.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from TimRoys

Warden/Warlock

• Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
  
  It was planned to strengthen the class, with this change, its damage only decreased.

You missed to read:

• Changed Power of the Wood Spirit to do not require a target to be casted, increased radius to 80.
• Removed Energy Absorb global cooldown trigger.
• Increased Essence of Poison poison damage gain to 30%.
• Changed Phantom Cleave to do not trigger global cooldown after channelling ends.

all this mini changes is quality of life + pushing the class a bit.

Display More

I don't see this damage boost. It just doesn't make sense

Quote from TimRoys

Quote from xLutinex

You missed to read:

• Changed Power of the Wood Spirit to do not require a target to be casted, increased radius to 80.
• Removed Energy Absorb global cooldown trigger.
• Increased Essence of Poison poison damage gain to 30%.
• Changed Phantom Cleave to do not trigger global cooldown after channelling ends.

all this mini changes is quality of life + pushing the class a bit.

I don't see this damage boost. It just doesn't make sense

These mentioned changes will come with the next patch ! so you wont see them impacting your gameplay right now

" planned to be implemented around 14.01.2021 CET evening hours."

Greetings

Quote from Laisha

Quote from Ganga

Are you kidding me? The damage of a warrior / mage should be reduced by 20-30 percent at least. You're asking to simplify it. Nonsense. Ask them to give you the skill to kill everything and everyone? I'm playing a warlock / rogue who needs to use 5 skills before doing damage. This is not easy and not every boss has time to do everything right, and you are worried about one skill.

Have you played the Warrior/Mage after the latest changes? What he stated is correct that a) aoes (although slightly better than before) are still a joke (even with a ton of cast speed) and that b) the Warrior/Mage has to stack a buff 3 times BEFORE he can actually use his rota/skills. Because maybe you noticed that this class doesn't only use Whitehits anymore to deal damage.

And I've played both Warrior/Mage and Warlock/Rogue, and it's way easier to stack the debuffs on Warlock/Rogue because, except for Soul Poisoned Fang, the skills don't trigger a gcd which is exactly what Madoxx asked.

Also I dealt in rofl, overall, more damage with the Warlock/Rogue than I did with the Warmage.

Greetings.

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Yes, I played after the last change. To stack a buff need one second. Even if this is too difficult for you it doesn't mean that you need to simplify a class that already has 3 skills.

Quote from Ganga

Quote from Laisha

Have you played the Warrior/Mage after the latest changes? What he stated is correct that a) aoes (although slightly better than before) are still a joke (even with a ton of cast speed) and that b) the Warrior/Mage has to stack a buff 3 times BEFORE he can actually use his rota/skills. Because maybe you noticed that this class doesn't only use Whitehits anymore to deal damage.

And I've played both Warrior/Mage and Warlock/Rogue, and it's way easier to stack the debuffs on Warlock/Rogue because, except for Soul Poisoned Fang, the skills don't trigger a gcd which is exactly what Madoxx asked.

Also I dealt in rofl, overall, more damage with the Warlock/Rogue than I did with the Warmage.

Greetings.

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Yes, I played after the last change. To stack a buff need one second. Even if this is too difficult for you it doesn't mean that you need to simplify a class that already has 3 skills.

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First, since every gcd it 1sec (at least I think so) you need at least 3 sec with no laggs to stack this skill, so don't state false things.

Second, Madoxx and I gave our opinion one something that disagreed with yours and know you get personal? This thread is for everybody, so everyone can give their opinion and if you can't do that without insulting others once they disagree with you, don't.

I gave my reply and since this is beginning to get OT maybe someone could clean before it gets to out of hand? Thank you.

Greetings.

Quote from Laisha

Quote from Ganga

Yes, I played after the last change. To stack a buff need one second. Even if this is too difficult for you it doesn't mean that you need to simplify a class that already has 3 skills.

First, since every gcd it 1sec (at least I think so) you need at least 3 sec with no laggs to stack this skill, so don't state false things.

Second, Madoxx and I gave our opinion one something that disagreed with yours and know you get personal? This thread is for everybody, so everyone can give their opinion and if you can't do that without insulting others once they disagree with you, don't.

I gave my reply and since this is beginning to get OT maybe someone could clean before it gets to out of hand? Thank you.

Greetings.

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I also express only my opinion and there was no transition to personality. I just want these endless class changes to end and every time I go to the forum I see that everyone is asking for something and there is no end to this. Many classes with their own difficulties and conditions. You don't need to simplify everything until you press 1 or 2 buttons.

Quote from Ganga

Quote from Laisha

First, since every gcd it 1sec (at least I think so) you need at least 3 sec with no laggs to stack this skill, so don't state false things.

Second, Madoxx and I gave our opinion one something that disagreed with yours and know you get personal? This thread is for everybody, so everyone can give their opinion and if you can't do that without insulting others once they disagree with you, don't.

I gave my reply and since this is beginning to get OT maybe someone could clean before it gets to out of hand? Thank you.

Greetings.

Display More

I also express only my opinion and there was no transition to personality. I just want these endless class changes to end and every time I go to the forum I see that everyone is asking for something and there is no end to this. Many classes with their own difficulties and conditions. You don't need to simplify everything until you press 1 or 2 buttons.

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All those changes are made becouse we all want this game to be better in overall gameplay with all possible combinations. It's true that class balance is long but it's not so easy to align all those possible class combinations and without our(players) help and suggestions it would only last longer.

Quote from deszcz2

Quote from Ganga

I also express only my opinion and there was no transition to personality. I just want these endless class changes to end and every time I go to the forum I see that everyone is asking for something and there is no end to this. Many classes with their own difficulties and conditions. You don't need to simplify everything until you press 1 or 2 buttons.

All those changes are made becouse we all want this game to be better in overall gameplay with all possible combinations. It's true that class balance is long but it's not so easy to align all those possible class combinations and without our(players) help and suggestions it would only last longer

I understand this and I try to make suggestions for changes myself, but these proposals must be adequate and really necessary,and when asked to simplify one of the simplest classes, it causes emotional surprise and questions.

I understand this and try to help myself with suggestions for changes, but these changes must be adequate and actually necessary, and when asked to simplify one of the simplest classes, it causes confusion

Couple more opinions:

-D/wl: reduced dmg taken from 90% to 80 is a lot, im getting 180k hits from a plant when i barely reach 190k with unicorn and every possible buff...

Edit: spider bleed should be reduced, one is 100k and the other like 60k xD

-M/S, there is a skill stopping our music, I think is fire rose?

Im not sure if it was fixed, but last time when i was on RoFL at P/W, i couldnt hit the bulls with chains of light. It sometimes hits, but very rarely Could u check it?

• Increased Beast Awakening wand attack speed scaling by 10%.

Isn't affecting raid rune from weapon. Ub I do exactly same dmg as before patch, please fix. Summoning pet I start hitting a bit more. Still need like 20-25% extra speed attack (stimulant) for wand to make same dmg as staff.

My suggestion is still up, change this class into cast speed and not speed attack. We are wasting a talisman (curse) and upper set bonus.

Quote from Madox

• Increased Beast Awakening wand attack speed scaling by 10%.

Isn't affecting raid rune from weapon. Ub I do exactly same dmg as before patch, please fix. Summoning pet I start hitting a bit more. Still need like 20-25% extra speed attack (stimulant) for wand to make same dmg as staff.

My suggestion is still up, change this class into cast speed and not speed attack. We are wasting a talisman (curse) and upper set bonus.

I partly agree. Raid rune is effecting the damage in my case but not nearly as much as it should. As for the rest I completly agree, especially the cast per second improvement, since you made it very clear that is supposed to be a mdps and not some hybrid pdps/mdps combination.

Edit: With a Raid XIII (20,4% attack speed) my damage is increasing by ~7%.

Quote

Fixed too high cast speed was causing issues with cast per second damage formula.

Is that fix the fact that there is now a cap at 0.5?

Greetings.

Quote from Byte

Quote from Laisha

Is that fix the fact that there is now a cap at 0.5?

Greetings.

It is a fix for an issue that was reducing your damage when your cast speed hits to 0.5 cap. When this happens you were experiencing 2x damage multiplier instead of 6x.

Greetings

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What % cast speed do we need to reach that "0.5s cap"?

Quote

Increased Beast Awakening wand attack speed scaling by 10%.

So I did some tests and something seems really buggy.

Raid XIII (20,4% attack speed): Increases damage ~7%

Lute and Strong Stimulant (25% attack speed) : Increases damage ~ 26,5%

Elven Agility Flask (20% attack speed): Increases damage ~18,3%

I didn't stack them (e.g. lute and strong stimulant at the same time) but these damage increments seem rather random.

Greetings.