Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    I know, but in my opinion unless you have Sere gear or similar cant reach enouth pa, and damage drops, combo burst is fine, but aoe/sustain for me is low, your experience confirms that in my opinion that with extra pa buff wd/wl would be viable for a peasant like me :D

    try with mage/wl in group (we don't run with it)


    But I guess more pa for warden will be too strong, because all warden classes have more pa then. If one class combi is bad, elite skills need a change.

    I think about leather classes, which (mostly) doesn't have more than 1.5kk pa. I see it on my rogues and scouts. if pa increase only a little bit, the damage increase significantly because of the attack defense factor. that's why low pa classes seems to have op damage in lower instances because of the high base damage.


    Just my opinion/experience

    Btw big thanks for the latest changes on scout/rogue!!!!!

    This class is now very good in trash and midfield within scouts in single target. I think this is fine.

    More Vampire Arrows increase single target damage, but that is what teamplay means :D


    Kind regards

    "But I guess more pa for warden will be too strong, because all warden classes have more pa then. If one class combi is bad, elite skills need a change."


    That's why i try diff combos not just one, and wd/r similar to wd/wl lack pa in my opinion based on the performance in our runs. If they keep it as is, then it will be same as before noone will play wd, i am just trying to get it on equal footing so class becomes a good option for chain users again.


    Just to clarify, with identical gear, i will do much better on couple warr combo and champ relative to wd in rofl, which in my opinion is the main issue which basically implies that unless i want to hinder myself in terms of dps, there is no good reason to play it; but, since i really like the wd i hope further pa improvements can be made so wd or at least one wd combo would be similar to warr and champ

    I appreciate the change you made to Chain of Life to require 2h staff to make it more viable, however apart from that one skill there is still no reason to use 2h staffs on heals, as overall there is no increase in effective healing done compared to 1h+talisman, since they already have enough healing capabilities. Healing done by 1h+talisman would have to be reduced to make 2h staffs more viable.


    Changing the healing-trigger CD of Chain of Life wasnt the best way in my opinion, it makes this heal proc rather unreliable. Lowering the healing amount done and lowering the CD would be more useful, maybe find a middle of 4-5 sec cd, to not let it trigger with each whitehit of single mobs.


    Furthermore I still propose to change the dmg taken by the caster to the same dmg type as Holy Candle or Blood Arrow, to allow playing music during fights. In most current situations its more attrctive to support the party with instruments than using the Chain of Life.

    Also please increase the keep-up distance of the Chain a little further, while pulling mobs and during bossfights tanks still frequently are out of its range. Removing the 30 CD on the skill when the link is broken by range and not by too much dmg taken would also adress this issue.


    Cheers! :thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 1
    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    I tried wd/wl in RoFL and as i suspected it badly lacks pa - i can only buff to little over 1.5kk and no additional pa buff options for the combo exist sadly. Sustain and aoe were really bad - approx 3/5 of a m/s; burst was ok which goes to show with all pd debuffs class could be ok, but need more pa. Overall, class performed worse for me than wd/r. I think this class combo needs a buff in terms of pa option in addition to a broad buff of 1str = 1.7 or 1.8 pa ( i am starting to think 1.8 would be needed with 1.6 not enough for sure)


    Re wd/w, it is simply not as good as wd/r or wd/wl, that goes to combo design that needs a boost. I suggest you change charge chop and power of the wood spirit to be earth + add earth damage buff of 20-30% for 10 s if frantic briar hits. Else atm wd/w is clearly not viable and not as strong of a combo. Other wd combos are even worse sadly

    I would like to share my experience on the subject of wardens. I have now tested Warden/Rogue, Warden/Warrior and Warden/Warlock in Rofl and have come to the conclusion that the Warden/Warlock is still the strongest Warden class. The Warden/Rogue makes good Aoe Dmg and is also not bad in the Burst or Offburst, but by Jerath sees no land against Mage or Warrior, the Warden/Warrior makes passable Aoe Dmg and quite good Burst and Offburst Dmg is in the Scruti but clearly below other classes.


    The Patk Boost has already helped to make the Warden more viable, but I think this alone is not enough to put the Warden on a par with other top DD classes.


    Greetings

    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    "But I guess more pa for warden will be too strong, because all warden classes have more pa then. If one class combi is bad, elite skills need a change."


    That's why i try diff combos not just one, and wd/r similar to wd/wl lack pa in my opinion based on the performance in our runs. If they keep it as is, then it will be same as before noone will play wd, i am just trying to get it on equal footing so class becomes a good option for chain users again.


    Just to clarify, with identical gear, i will do much better on couple warr combo and champ relative to wd in rofl, which in my opinion is the main issue which basically implies that unless i want to hinder myself in terms of dps, there is no good reason to play it; but, since i really like the wd i hope further pa improvements can be made so wd or at least one wd combo would be similar to warr and champ

    I fully endorse the statement.

    i agree wd/wl burst > wd/r; and sustain for me was wd/r > wd/wl (mostly since power of the wood spirit is stronger on wd/r + it has str buff that enables pa gain unlike wd/wl that has 0 pa increase skills)


    I discussed the pa with Serenadae and he has as i suspected almost 100k pa more (1.5kk me vs 1.6 kk), and according to him he can keep up sustain with other dps in his raid. Given with the change of 1.6 pa per 1 str which gives wd ~50k pa and the fact we notice an improvement suggests the wd is getting close to be viable and thus change of 1 str = 1.8 pa would make it perform similar to other chain combos. Please consider doing that or alternatively for wd/wl and wd/r (2 most viable wd combos) consider implementing the following:


    1) for wd/r change Heart of the oak force fountain to gain 30% str instead of 21.9% it has currently

    2) for wd/wl add to protection of nature also pa buff of 7-8%

    3) or just change 1str = 1.8 pa.


    The changes above would make wd/wl and wd/r competitive. Other combos would still need rework but its a separate story.


    Thanks!

    Agree with Rakot. But I also think that if the Warden/Warrior is increased to 1.8 pa / 1 Str and charge chop and power of the wood spirit are changed to earth damage, it could also be good enough to keep up with other DD classes. WD/WL, WD/R and WD/W have the biggest potential for me to make the leap to a top DD class.


    Greetings

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    They should just be careful with buffing Wd/Wl, because in my experience the class performed as good as any other. I'd hate to see Wd/Wl first buffed and then nerfed into oblivion:|


    I agree that Wd/W needs a buff though, the earth damage variant of Charged Chop & Power of the Wood Spirit sounds good to me.


    Edit:

    • Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
    • Increased Essence of Poison poison damage gain to 30%.

    These changes should improve sustained damage a bit, while not crippling burst damage too bad. In our group this is going to be a nerf most likely (big pulls, most overall damage comes from burst scenarios), but should be a minor buff for groups that do smaller pulls.


    • Changed Power of the Wood Spirit to do not require a target to be casted, increased radius to 80.

    Huge quality of life change, thank you !


    Speaking about quality of life, I suggest removing the gcd of Energy Absorb. The small delay before you can start hitting the boss is annoying. Same goes for Phantom Cleave. Skills with a channeltime shouldn't trigger a gcd imho.

    Rogue/Warrior

    • Decreased Toxic Splash damage by 20%. ( Decreased again after 60% reduction of post patch notes. )
    • Reduced Decay physical damage increment to 16.6%.


    I haven´t been able to test the combination too often, but here are my results.

    At first glance you think "Wow, the class is overpowered." You are at the top of the scruti at a distance. However, if you take into account that there is currently a visual bug and the 60% reduction on Toxic Splash is visually incorrectly displayed, the class no longer looks so overpowered. If you take the 60% out of the scruti, my damage was at the level of scout/warlock and champ/warlock and worse than that of a scout/mage. I have to mention that I always killed 3 organs in the runs (on the one hand because I was down so often and on the other hand because the class can show its potential with the organs). 3 organs = +- 1.2kk damage. If you take this into account, the class is suddenly below the above-mentioned classes by distance (I can´t say the relation to other classes for now). The damage comparison always refers to overall damage and classes with equally strong gear.


    So I strongly advise against the other nerfs. In my opinion, these will make the class too weak in relation to other classes.


    A "problem" of the class is that by increasing the CD of Poisonous Explosion and Poisonous Infection one falls back on the normal bleeding rota from rogue. Which I think is very good itself because you have a lot of skill. Unfortunately, Shadowstab and Low Blow do very little damage in relation to other skills. So you have to make a lot of skills on the mob in order to be able to do meaningful skills. And as we all know, classes that have to do multiple skills on one mob have a downside.


    Kind regards

    Warrior / Rogue

    skill "Berserk" does not increase physical damage


    - "Fixed too high cast speed was causing issues with cast per second damage formula."
    Physical dps has the same problem with attack speed. If the attack speed is too high, DPS decreases

    Quote from TimRoys


    Warden/Druid

    • Increased Beast Awakening wand attack speed scaling by 10%

      Disagree with this improvement. he is already very strong. with proper acceleration, he will deal more damage than all the others

    While I agree that this class is good dps, it is nowhere near the top dps (both physical and magical) which is why I highly appreciate this improvement.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 5
    Quote from TimRoys

    Warrior / Rogue

    skill "Berserk" does not increase physical damage


    - "Fixed too high cast speed was causing issues with cast per second damage formula."
    Physical dps has the same problem with attack speed. If the attack speed is too high, DPS decreases

    I think what you mean is the fact that attack speed currently is capped at 0.5. Further increasing your attack speed isn't increasing your damage, thats true, but it doesn't decrease eitehr (at least after a few short tests and what my guild mates told me).


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Quote from Byte
    Quote from TimRoys

    - "Fixed too high cast speed was causing issues with cast per second damage formula."
    Physical dps has the same problem with attack speed. If the attack speed is too high, DPS decreases

    Could you explain this? I couldn't reproduce such issue.


    Greetings

    warrior / rogue

    has an attack speed limit and when the attack speed is higher than limit, the damage dealt is reduced.

    • Official Post
    Quote from TimRoys
    Quote from Byte

    Could you explain this? I couldn't reproduce such issue.


    Greetings

    warrior / rogue

    has an attack speed limit and when the attack speed is higher than limit, the damage dealt is reduced.

    For my test results for Warrior/Rogue:

    No attack speed buff:
    Slash 33.686 damage

    Frenzied Attack 2.511 damage


    20% attack speed buff:
    Slash 42.108 damage

    Frenzied Attack 3.139 damage


    52% attack speed buff:

    Slash 70.180 damage

    Frenzied Attack 5.232 damage


    68% attack speed buff:

    Slash 105.207 damage

    Frenzied Attack 7.848 damage


    84% attack speed buff ( capped at 0.5 )

    Slash 120.880 damage

    Frenzied Attack 11.321 damage


    164% attack speed buff

    Slash 120.880 damage

    Frenzied Attack 11.321 damage


    So I couldn't observe any damage output loss related with attack speed.


    Greetings

    I would like to take this opportunity to say a quick thank you to the devs. All the planned changes that were listed and then discussed and modified here in the forum have so far helped to improve the classes but not to make them too strong or too weak. Their decision to actively involve the community in balancing is therefore a great success in my eyes. Thank you for this, I hope that in the foreseeable future we will reach a point where no one has to constantly change their class in order to actively help their guild in the ini and that it will also be possible to use the multitude of class combinations sensibly so that you don't always only have players in the groups who play one and the same class. The time when there are 5 champions and 5 rogues running around in a 12-man group should come to an end at some point.


    Thank you for your efforts and best regards.

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    Quote from Elcaponie

    it will also be possible to use the multitude of class combinations sensibly so that you don't always only have players in the groups who play one and the same class. The time when there are 5 champions and 5 rogues running around in a 12-man group should come to an end at some point.

    All classes have their pros and cons and there is still a lot of space for improvements but it was possible to run with dif classes already 6 months ago. In our groups noone repeat a class, it took me 5 months to see another mch with me to discover a bug when 2 players use it at the same time xD.

    People just use the easiest class or what they think is the strongest one and all copy to each other (maybe out of laziness for not trying new things? Idk). I think is their fault more than a lacking of good classes since summer.


    Regards

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from Elcaponie

    it will also be possible to use the multitude of class combinations sensibly so that you don't always only have players in the groups who play one and the same class. The time when there are 5 champions and 5 rogues running around in a 12-man group should come to an end at some point.

    All classes have their pros and cons and there is still a lot of space for improvements but it was possible to run with dif classes already 6 months ago. In our groups noone repeat a class, it took me 5 months to see another mch with me to discover a bug when 2 players use it at the same time xD.

    People just use the easiest class or what they think is the strongest one and all copy to each other (maybe out of laziness for not trying new things? Idk). I think is their fault more than a lacking of good classes since summer.


    Regards

    Of course, this is also completely correct, but there are still classes that are not really useful or supportive in the ini. I agree with you that it has become much better since the beginning of the balancing, in any case much better than in offi times. ^^ That was not a reproach to anyone, I just wanted to praise the good work of the devs. =) Sure, many play what is easy and strongest, but it would be nice if every class is represented at least once in the ini without one of them getting the short end of the stick. You also have to consider that not every guild has high-end players and therefore sometimes has to fall back on the strongest classes in order to progress, even though they would actually prefer to play something else.


    Greetings

    Suggested changes fo wd/wl:

    "Warden/Warlock

    • Decreased Corruption of Nature cooldown time to 3 minutes, reduced physical damage gain to 24%.
    • Increased Essence of Poison poison damage gain to 30%.
    • Changed Phantom Cleave to do not trigger global cooldown after channelling ends."

    In my opinion this still does not address the key issue - pa; again, the damage sealing of wd/wl is fine, no need to change that much. Assuming 1.6kk pa base is enough to do similar damage to other classes and 1.5kk (my experience) clearly not enough suggests to me that with 1.6kk pa you are getting to the soft pd cap of monsters, and with 1.5 kk you will not. If pa is not going to increase by ~7% for wd/wl, then only players who have t13&t14 gear will be able to reach that - i.e. prob single player :) My gear is all t12 with chest t13 and I suspect that is above average and I know my gear does not enable me to reach the pa to unlock the damage potential of the class. If you keep it as is in terms of pa, you will not see many people running rofl on a wd/wl, i very strongly believe that.