Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Ich finde das die Heiler, Druiden und Priester, ihre Individualität verloren haben.

Jeder Priester & Druide gibt jetzt einen Matt/Pattbuff , egal welche Kombi man spielt. Die Skills, die die einzelnen Klassenkombis ausgemacht haben, haben keinen Wert mehr.

Einfach nur schade.

I think that the healers, druids and priests, have lost their individuality.

Every priest & druid now gives a matt/pattbuff, no matter which combination you play. The skills that the individual class combos have made up have no value anymore.

Just a pity. (Tranlated with deepl)

I think that is a side effect of the balance, that you cannot stack multiple buffs for mdps anymore.

This is the best they could do in my opinion. With 2 heals in a raid, one should be priest and one should be druid. before priest was kinda useless, cause of the "Awakening of the Wild" from druid/warrior and "Mysterious Grace" from druid/warden. they were the best buffing combo.

Now, after all changes, every healer can choose their own subclass, which he/she likes most! No crying anymore in raids, cause some classes get buffs and others not.

Furthermore this should increase the variety which class combos are played. I for myself have a favorite priest and druid combo, but nobody played it before

Wenn es schon darum geht ,das Mdds nicht mehr Buffs bekommen dürfen als die Pdds, dann sollte aber auch sofort der Heiße Eintopf geändert werden und auch den magischen Angriff erhöhen. Weil ,oh meinGott, sonst hat der Pdd ja einen Buff mehr.........

Translation by Google Translate:

If it is about Mdds not being allowed to get more buffs than the Pdds, then the hot stew should be changed immediately and the magical attack increased. Because, oh my god, otherwise the Pdd has one more buff .........

As stated below and already before by Quorthon, please only post your comments in English!

Quote from Quorthon

Please, post your messages in English too, so that all players as well as developers and other team members can understand it

Please consider this.

Therefor you have a lot of elemental damage increasement as mdps. Scouts and warriors not for example.

The class balancing is not finished yet. Give them the time to finish the balancing. After all is done and officially stated as finished, you can look what is not really fair

I will do this to for me as a scout *g* ( I am just waiting that all is finished)

First of all i like it pretty much, what you have done with the Play / Party / Raid buffs.

It makes the gaming experience a huge way better becaus you dont wast so much time in font of bosses or after

someone died. What was before just annoying. But still i have some ideas.

Since you made the "Amplified Attack" ID 490491 (Priest buff) worth for all classes, it would be rly nice if you could make

an raid buff out of it too, anyone is using it so i dont see a point agains it. And i dont see a needed point why u should buff one by one in a full raid party.

Same for "Savage Blessing" ID 493531 (Druid buff) Accuracy is good for all players too. Since some patchen i dont know the missing rate is littel bit higher than before for some class combos (though weapon lvl max) so this buff got now usefull. So would be nice if u could change it too.

Anyways you are doing a great job go one making the game experience more pleasant.

best regards

Mela

Quote from Niirtii

I think that the healers, druids and priests, have lost their individuality.

Every priest & druid now gives a matt/pattbuff, no matter which combination you play. The skills that the individual class combos have made up have no value anymore.

Just a pity.

I totally agree with this, however I see why non-healers do like this change. But from a healers perspective before you had to think about what sec-class benefits the raid you are with the most thus playing different combos from time to time.

Now everyone just plays the combo he/she likes the most and/or is best for healing.

Since changing everything to raid-effects seems to be the new thing here, I would ask to change Divine Shield and Group Heal ro raid effects as well.

Druids recently got way more viable raid heals besides Fountain, e.g. Camellia Flower and Healing Wind and there also are way stronger dmg-reduces like Shield of the Otherwold with less CD, so I believe priests deserve a push here too, to keep them up with other classes...

Cheers!

Quote from MDNCITAJ

1 skill class, so try to lower shot dmg for another 30%

And what about the Warmage? Warmage has and will always be a 1 skill class and nobody ever really complained about it. And if you think Mage/Scout is just a 1 Skill class then u are wrong. Many people only use shot and yes shot is the main skill from this class, but you can also use several skills at the same time and you have to do a rota in terms of bossfights if you want to deal the maximum damage. Dont just throw out a statement because one single person only uses shot

In my opinion mage has already suffered the past few weeks since its gotten nerfed more than any other class, maybe wait a few days and check the new upcoming patches. I think for sure they will adjust many more things.

Quote from Niirtii

Wenn es schon darum geht ,das Mdds nicht mehr Buffs bekommen dürfen als die Pdds, dann sollte aber auch sofort der Heiße Eintopf geändert werden und auch den magischen Angriff erhöhen. Weil ,oh meinGott, sonst hat der Pdd ja einen Buff mehr.........

Translation by Google Translate:

If it is about Mdds not being allowed to get more buffs than the Pdds, then the hot stew should be changed immediately and the magical attack increased. Because, oh my god, otherwise the Pdd has one more buff .........

As stated below and already before by Quorthon, please only post your comments in English!

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Then the physical and magical protection of the bosses must be balanced. Always magical protection was much less physical

Quote from Ashlynn

Quote from MDNCITAJ

1 skill class, so try to lower shot dmg for another 30%

And what about the Warmage? Warmage has and will always be a 1 skill class and nobody ever really complained about it. And if you think Mage/Scout is just a 1 Skill class then u are wrong. Many people only use shot and yes shot is the main skill from this class, but you can also use several skills at the same time and you have to do a rota in terms of bossfights if you want to deal the maximum damage. Dont just throw out a statement because one single person only uses shot

In my opinion mage has already suffered the past few weeks since its gotten nerfed more than any other class, maybe wait a few days and check the new upcoming patches. I think for sure they will adjust many more things.

Is it possible to provide the source of all these "nerfs"? Personally I've barely seen any mage nerf whatsoever, with comparable gear I see mages doing the most damage. Also in my own experience, I frankly did more damage with my mage gear than with the very comparable chain gear I have now (chain even has a higher tier weapon).

The only "nerf" I've seen is Purgatory Fire in the latest patch, but to counter that, EVERY instant skill mage had their global cooldown got removed, so you can now cast your instant skills inbetween your main spammable to cause even more damage.

And besides that buff, the cooldown on "Clear Thought" potion got removed and it's now usable alongside "Ancient Spirit Water", that gives you literally 10% more non-burst damage because you permanently cast 10% faster.

I'm just going through the patch notes here.

I think the only mage class that was nerfed in any way was mage/rogue, every other mage is *more* than capable to hold it's own and leave other classes behind in some cases.

"Increased Warrior skill Aggressiveness refresh rage interval to 8 seconds."

i dont see the point of this nerf... Warrior needs more buffs and the change of the skill was the right way, but 10 Rage every 8 seconds is like nothing. In my opinion 2 Seconds were fine, but it should be at least every 2-4 seconds.

Last changes thoughts:

Mage/Scout, yes shot is a strong skill but is the only reason why this mage can do a good sustain and try to compete with champs, it shouldn't be used during burst since flame is way better on that phase.

Mage/Rogue last changes literally made the class the worst mage, the possibility to use a second curse rune made it a decent sustainer without losing dmg for not wearing a staff but now the dark skill to do dps is a shame. Probably passed from the best 3s cast skill to the worst out of all combos. Remember this one didn't have eruption like other mages so, why this insane nerf to that skill, right now the dark passive is useless since flame is a better damage dealer to use.

Rest of mages (except maybe m/w) still lack some %cast somewhere as sutain, yes adding house pot working with ancient water helped but isn't nearly enough while champ or rogues are on action, good luck casting flames without cast buffs on mobs

I repeat myself on this, purge damage is reeeeeeeeeeeally low compared to other aoes, please remove its cd and add each combo elemental dmg instead of everyone using fire.

Bug reports:

Mage/scout pet mana isn't adapted to owner gear/buffs, it has only 20k and it runs out of mana after a few flames.

Champion Shock Overload is hitting B3 worms while being inside doing organs.

New bags: Trying to gear a piece up using C panel isn't working, the piece never shows and need to open the bag to manually wear it.

Madox

I agree, especially on the mage/rogue part. I don't see the point of introducing a new cast via elite skill when generic Flame does more damage.

I have a question regarding "Aldos talisman of the cursed soul". Would it be possible to change the firedamage to elemental damage? Before the class balancing most of the mage combinations did fire damage. So even while using an 1h staff (because you also played Warmage e.g) you could compensate the missing damage from the 2h staff by using the talisman.

Since most mage combinations now deal a different kind of elemental damage (water, light, darkness, earth) the talisman is really bad on at least 5 Mage combinations.

If the talismans nonstat would be changed to elemental damage the 1h saff + talisman combo would be viable again and it would benefit all the former Warmages, that at the moment do not really know what to do with their 1h staff.

Greetings.

Hi,

i saw and tested, that the gorge t14 xbow, which you can buy in instance atm, is fullbuffed as good as equal in dmg like my t17 golden bow ._.

That's because of the changed attack-speed cap.

Please fix this or change anything for bow/xbow or let us choose which weapon we can use .

Kind regards

Since an official statement here for everyone concerning this topic is long overdue:

The introduction of an atk-speed cap basicly was not part of the previously announced class balancing, but is based upon this bug report.

All we could know is that this bug will be fixed and roughly when, but not exactly in which way and with what consequences.

To quote grox from that thread (which imo includes certain weapon types not becoming nerfed):

Quote from Grox

The only solution is putting cap for attack speed, which means no any form of nerf, but possibility to offhand being used properly, so in fact you can get even better on it, if your offhand weapon is good. However we are still discussing that change, as it needs a lot of tests and researches to make sure it is changed properly, without creating any other issues.

Strictly speaking the opposite of what grox stated there has happened now.

However this change was made simultaniously and has a big impact on class balancing, different from the balancing a bugfix having these consequences was not announced beforehand, so noone could anticipate this.

Classes like the r/m may somehow benefit from this fix, other classes like the scout for example suffered big time because of it.

Btw, another approach to this issue might be to re-reconsider this atk-speed fix to only affect the whitehits done and not having impact on dps-calculation, which int sadly already denied once here.

Cheers!

And all scouts made a bow, before this "fix of attack speed cap". What, if I would not made a bow, if this fix would have been made before RoFL release? I want to decide, which weapon I want to make. I don't want that someone else make a change, which implicit made the decision for me!

Quote from Byte

Ranged weapon attack speed cap isn't related with offhand fix topic.

Well, you should have communicated that a little better then, because the original version (sadly I cant prove that now anymore) of the patch 10.2.1.1000 patchnotes only said something like "set limit for skill autoshot to max. two per second." for scouts, not "Ranged attack speed is limited to 0.5." as it says now.

Nothing about "changed speed limit for physical dmg-calculation of all sources to 0.5".

Changing formulations like these without any further note is intransparent to say the least.

...by the way, if you are already rephrasing those patchnotes, you should add that as a general change, since it basicly affects ALL pdps classes, scouts just suffer(ed) the most from it and thats why this is a topic now.

Having that info is a huge deal for all players, since you cannot expect everyone to test everything in the game after every patch, just because we have to expect changes that are not mentioned as they are in the patchnotes, yet affect our gameplay and gear related decisions.

Players wondering why scouts dealt so much less dmg after patch 10.2.1.1000 is best proof for that, because if that point were made clear from the beginning a statement like this and the entire topic connected to it, would not have occurred as they did:

Quote from espar91

i tested it on the first day, if they didn't revert it, attack speed is capped at 0.5 now unlike pre-patch, i was reaching 0.23 speed values with bow, now i can't

and just a simple math result, that means your burst is nerfed to 50% on burst with bow

Nevertheless this does not solve the dilemma many players are in atm.

Quote from Byte

Please consider that you might have read it wrong

Yes I did consider this, thats why I asked other ppl to confirm my suspicion and thats why I am as sure as I am that originally those patchnotes were phrased differently.

I myself wasnt aware of the autoshot part anymore, another player reminded me of that phrase by saying it without even looking at the current version of those notes.

...and yes, I know autoshot is mentioned there now as well, but definitely not as we remember originally reading it.

Quote from Byte

For your information, all weapons already had attack speed cap except ranged weapons before first patch.

Sooo with which patch exactly was this implemented and in which patchnotes was this mentioned, because I never read something like this before, same as those I spoke to about this topic and I believe many pdps especially rogues would have complained about that if it where made common knowledge in any patchnotes, not just Yibsi in the thread I linked where she believed this issue to be a bug, not taking it as intended, as she would have if it were made clear in any patchnotes.

So again, this behaviour is very intransparent, somehow breaking trust in the team.

Quote from Byte

If you think there is something missed in patch notes, please report us.

If you hadn't ignored the second part of my previous post, you would know that in a way I just did that:

Quote from melodic

Sooo with which patch exactly was this implemented and in which patchnotes was this mentioned, because I never read something like this before, same as those I spoke to about this topic and I believe many pdps especially rogues would have complained about that if it where made common knowledge in any patchnotes, not just Yibsi in the thread I linked where she believed this issue to be a bug, not taking it as intended, as she would have if it were made clear in any patchnotes.

Thanks for evading it, please try to respond properly this time.

Quote from Byte

About attack speed limit for other weapons, I can't tell you when it is implemented as I am not entirely sure about exact date, but I can say that probably around 2004 while this game started to be developed.

So you say it has always been exactly like this and Grox was wrong with this: ...?

Quote from Grox

This issue is connected directly with no cap for attack speed. When having too much of attack speed increase bonuses, server attempts to use 2 times main weapon per second, blocking possibility to offhand being used properly.

...or did I misunderstand something here?