Posts by xLutinex

Quote from MidanLauert

Quote from xLutinex

Again. Even Zyrex said that EVERY TANK has no aggro problems. wo WHY is that a PROBLEM nerfing the shock strike aggro multiplier?

Whirlwind SHield with an aggro multi of 1000% is nearly enough to be afk after 1 WS in a single trash group.

I tried every tank combination. really every. every class can hold aggro but K/R and K/Ch are kinda a joke in aggro as it is now

Because the K/Ch is balanced around it's Electrocution Chain, a skill that provides no aggro multi. You are not able to hold aggro after pulling without an AoE. Whirlwind shield is not enough for aggro if you have high area damage classes. That is the entire issue.
Taking down those multis makes the CC borderline useless. Come on. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Tell me? How can tanks like K/M, K/P, K/S and K/D can hold aggro in such situations only with their whirlwind shield?

It's not a hard concept to grasp.

No offense.

And btw as K/CH the whirlwind shield is doing 45% more aggro then from K/M, K/P and K/D, because K/CH has a 45% damage passive, which improves all skills. In summary the ability of K/CH and the massive aggro output is like the K/R. both are totally OP in my opinion as a long year playing tank

Edit:

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Serenadae

Not a single Knight combination has to rely on secondary-class specific skills to build and hold aggro. The default Knight skills (and iss) are more than enough.

Yes!!! That's my point, so the aggro of Shock Strike doen't affect the overall aggro, but it's CC utility is the core mechanic of this class, but has to stay on 3s to enable this ability of CC how it is. The aggro of Shock Strike does only matter, if you use it in specific situations, but then it does.

The 3 sec CD will be stayed at 3 seconds, because every /ch got 3 sec now

Again. Even Zyrex said that EVERY TANK has no aggro problems. wo WHY is that a PROBLEM nerfing the shock strike aggro multiplier?

Whirlwind SHield with an aggro multi of 1000% is nearly enough to be afk after 1 WS in a single trash group.

I tried every tank combination. really every. every class can hold aggro but K/R and K/Ch are kinda a joke in aggro as it is now

Quote from MidanLauert

Quote from xLutinex

And yes, shock strike, a nearly spammable 1000% aggro multiplier skill hmmm.... the reduce to 500% is also not noticable as a K/CH, because you have the highest damage passive of all knights. So please don't say something about aggro. The one knight which is having aggro "problems" is the K/P, because reducing aggro of raidmembers in 2021 is kinda useless, if all are at 10% without this skill

"So please don't say something about aggro." Not a very nice way to discuss something. Don't tell people what to say and what not to say unless you want to come across as arrogant and condescending.

The K/Chs whole thing is that he controls monsters. That's it. He needs a good aggro skill since one of his main mechanics, electrocution chain, does not generate any. It's cooldown resets when monsters die, hence removing the need to use it again. The whole argument "you can use it multiple times" is invalid simply because moving dead monsters is frankly useless. A low cooldown hit is absolutely vital to the integrity of the class and whirling shield just does not cut it alone.

If there is any Knight being broken right now it's K/R. Seriously. There's a reason every meta chaser plays that class: Incredibly low skill ceiling, two aggro areas, free crit, extra def and sustaining oneself. Also the attack speed passive, nimble hands, grants a nice boost passive boost to ones aggro, since all aggro skills are based on DPS, not flat damage. Sure it's not as high as the K/Chs, but it's something.

It's seems like you can't see the absolute value of classes because you haven't properly played them yet, but that's just my two cents.

I fully agree on K/P though. Class could use an update to make it more relevant.

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Sure I am arrogant, because I can

The "problem" in my eyes is the contradiction. First saying to not reduce aggro multi

Quote from Zyrex

2) Will the aggro multiplier of Shok Strike for K/Ch also be reduced? In that case please don't, this skill deals the perfect amount of aggro to use it on range in our runs, reducing it would make it kinda useless in my eyes

and then saying no knight have aggro issues

Quote from Zyrex

However, talking about knight tank balancing seems to be a waste of time imho, because as mentioned, you can even play without any sec class to hold aggro, it doesn't matter if you have 100kk aggro after burst or 150kk.

And the whole thing is only about the aggro Oo. Because the next patch will reduce shock strike CD to 3 sec for all classes. So what is the problem to reduce the aggro multiplier to 500%?

And yes, I played the K/Ch. Some mechanics can be kinda broken in some situations.

Regarding the K/R. He is strong yes, but has definitly not the best aggro. it is at rank 3 or 4.

And btw I know the values of the classes, maybe more than almost every other player, because I test things in detail.

Ontopic: Even 500% 3 sec aggro AOE is one of the strongest a knight have. And yes, only whirling shield + ISS is enough for every tank, because you can hold the aggro in rofl without any secondary class which means, that it is easier on harder content to do more aggro than dps classes comparing the damage the tank and dps dealing in rofl and new content

Kind regards

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from melodic

Originally I was considering to suggest an increase of Shock Strikes CD on Knight/Champ as well to 6sec, as it normally is/was.

I play K/Ch only, since 1 week after it came out. I think talking about aggro potential as a knight is useless since all knight combos can hold aggro without any problem. So it's just a matter of utility and K/Ch has a lot of this, which is the core functionality of this class.
You don't just tank and do your own stuff, but you support your entire raid by a huge CC mechanic. The stacking, stunning, interrupting mechanics make this class unique, also the 3s are required for some specific parts in rofl. Increasing the cd would fail the purpose of the class imo. It's not that tanky as others and you always need to keep your stacks at 10 not to loose your def. Also the cone AoE requires some movement on many situation, even in our greater pulls.

However, talking about knight tank balancing seems to be a waste of time imho, because as mentioned, you can even play without any sec class to hold aggro, it doesn't matter if you have 100kk aggro after burst or 150kk. And every tank subclass has its own playstyle, that's why I'm playing this class and not a Ch/K. And if it comes to the topic which knight subclasses are too strong, the K/Ch wouldn't be on the first 2 or 3 places (but that could be a discussion for itself I guess). Also seeing few tanks not playing K/R is a good thing in my opinion

Just one point of view of myself.

K/Ch has the ability the nearly stun all mobs in every trash group, even in massive pulls. The most dangerous for other classes than the tank can be the big pulls, where many mobs can use any AOE and kills the players. K/CH can stun all of them, pull them together and reset his cooldown while the mobs are killed Oo. If I think about our 2-3 dps runs, the 2 seconds stun is nearly enough to kill every mob of big pulls Oo -> resetting CD of AOE stun/pull instantl.

If I compare this mechanic to the Ch/Wl, it is kinda OP because the CH/Wl cannot reset his CD

And yes, shock strike, a nearly spammable 1000% aggro multiplier skill hmmm.... the reduce to 500% is also not noticable as a K/CH, because you have the highest damage passive of all knights. So please don't say something about aggro. The one knight which is having aggro "problems" is the K/P, because reducing aggro of raidmembers in 2021 is kinda useless, if all are at 10% without this skill

Quote from Zyrex

The problem of "Holy Thunder Blade" (Lv 98 ISS)

There is also the Lv 98 Holy Thunder Blade, which does a Non-Aggro hit but increases your total aggro by 5%. Through the fact that your Holy Strike deals (more or less) equal damage but has an aggro multiplier, the 5% only matter if your total aggro is about 100kk or more. Only then this skill is better than Holy Strike if it comes to aggro only. But Holy Strike additionally puts Holy Seal on the target, which is required for several skills, so the Holy Thunder Blade (and also the Lv 75 Myrmex Sickle) is just useless in my eyes

Hi,

this ISS is a taunt btw. So it is not as useless as you think

Hi,

overall the post is good, but there are some points which are questionable.

Quote from Zyrex

In either way you should choose the highest possible stats you can get and effort. I would also recomment to use a Light elemtal Pet or magical Aurora (for additional wisdom). The more wisdom you have, the more is regenerated by Holy Power Explosion. But also a physical Aurora is possible for some more HP through the strength attribute.

Why additional wisdom? Wisdom for a knight is like dex. You don't need it. You will only regenerate more mana with more wisdom by Holy Power Explosion, because it will regenerate 3% mana. But the main mana regeneration will come from healers which are healing you while you have Holy Power Explosion active.

Furthermore this

Quote from Zyrex

I would recommend 2 different builds: Max-HP and Average.

Max-HP build takes 5 Protector (Sta/Sta/HP/Def) and 1 red Keeper (Sta/HP). If possible, use 6 Protectors. (but at this moment there are only 5 available)

Average build takes 4 Protector and 2 Endurance (Sta/Str/Patt/Def).

contradicts to this

Quote from Zyrex

Using a High-Patt-Build is nonsense in my opinion. No tank needs Patt to do its job right. It might be much easier but one day you come to a point to decide if you want to stand bosses or die because of too low defense. I saw tanks working with High-Patt but they always had been on a risk. And as a tank I do not take any risks. I would recommend not to go for a High-Patt build but the Average build with 2 Endurance stats is still okay.

Having 2 Endurance on each item on your full gear with the runes you listed is waste if you do this for the physical attack on the Endurance. The physical attack is still so low (I am only speaking for highest instances. On lower instances it might be pushing your aggro), that your aggro is the same like with full protector build.

Kind regards

Quote from xLutinex

But don't forget r/d supports with permanent -10% def reduce for pdps and mdps. I will test r/d soon again

I tested r/d now and I don't know. Little bit weaker than r/wrd in fullburst but AOE burst and AOE sustain is way stronger. Furthermore you can reduce 10% def of every mob. In my eyes the class is overall a little bit to strong compared for example with r/ch (a lot of group support, which you don't have on the group at every trash group and r/ch has also weaker aoe).

But don't forget r/d supports with permanent -10% def reduce for pdps and mdps. I will test r/d soon again

Hi,

I also tested rogue/warrior after the last patch now. I didn't played this class for a long time and never saw a rogue/warrior doing more damage than my rogue/warden.

I need to say: this class is still kinda to strong. I would suggest to reduce the damage over time damage from the skill ID 499476 and increase the CD of whirlwind (ID 499481) to 2 seconds (or reduce damage of it significantly).

I also need to say I was solo rogue and I only can image what damage this class will do with rogues that make bleedings for me. (Nayat bursted with 70kk+ dps and did 538kk damage -> without wound attack Oo)

Quote from TimRoys

Warden/Mage

• Changed Spiritual Feedback to provide 24% physical damage instead of 30% physical attack.
  
  who will give me back my diamonds and setskill from the golden equipment?

Let me tell you:

Quote from Thor

Greetings,

...

It is suggested that you do not make any irrational decisions pertaining to your own equipment items as a result of this patch.

Keep in mind that this is the beta stage of class balancing and testing on the live server.

You can expect changes based on our observations and feedback provided from the community over the next month.

Quote from Madox

After seeing you are planning to make rofl harder, doing tons of nerfs in next patch... What about implementing hell rofl mode instead? Making harder ini with same loot 8 months after instance is out isn't fair for those guilds without golden gear I think. If you want more challenge make a new mode with extra loot so strong guilds can have fun and those in the process don't quit. Server finally have good amount of people, I wouldn't want them to leave.

• Added physical attack, attack speed and bad luck aura to Nayat, Siddartha and Krishna in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode.

I really hope this bad luck thing isn't about boxes rng because is already a disaster. We spent 22 minutes the other day to do the freaking event cose most boxes appear outside the room or never match our buffs.

totally agree!!!!

I have a few ideas for such a hell mode xd like last boss starts with 10 stacks, has minimum 2 add phases and get move speed, that you cannot kite it to avoid damage 😍

Quote from wiedzmin97

Good to see changes on RoFL! Hope it will increase total difficulty of the instance!

1 boss - can you tell us some more details about those auras? The auras are from the beginning of tactic or bosses gets one of them if someone will fail?

Also im not sure if it was asked, but could you try fix that sometimes tank gets aggro on guardians, even if he wont use any dmg skills/taunt on them? I know that tanking it with 0 deff now is possible but not sure what will happen with those auras

2 boss - more vigilance on boss, good change. But if u want to implement it, i hope u will fix those "lags" in spawning of the small circles. Even now its annoying

3 boss - yay, finally 80% of the party wont be afk during the fight I think you could also add some more hp/deff to mobs there to not burst them instantly.

4 boss - check for heals, atleast those high number of wis will be helpful !

5 boss - maybe also more hp/deff there could be added to boss? Not sure about it and feelings from other guilds, but more tactics would definitely increase difficulty of boss. Atleast boss wont be bursted with autoclicking math tactic with maybe 1 tactic. But its my feeling, maybe someone from other guilds can share here with his feelings.

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Increase of def is not a good idea. That would change balancing between many classes. Only possible solution in my opinion is to increase HP, which can now exceed 2.147.483.647 HP native with 64bit client xd

regarding latest notes

"Added entrance cooldown debuff to Jerath event in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode that lasts for 180 seconds. Jerath nows gains 8% physical attack everytime a player participates to the event, and gains 8% physical damage everytime selected player refuse to participate. Every creature killed will inflict 2% damage to tactic object."

I hope the group will not killed, if you only have 2 dps in group and both was in event room and have cooldown. That would be a very disappointing change, if we are forced to have more than 2 dps if we are only 6 ppl online

The change to the creatures is very good. Now the group can do something while 1 person is in event room 👍

Quote from Merkur

If my observations are different i should say why. I agree with you, that is why i propose go rofl together, then we can compare rogues + our gameplay. Maybe my feeligs are bad, maybe i have a right, maybe not. Connected run (Lutine, Nyex, Snickars, Merkur, Hanzou, Ramer) propaply will get solution this problem. In my opinion r/w and r/d are too strong, we can come on r/d (Merkur) and r/w (Hanzou, Ramer), you can come on r/p, r/wd, r/ch. If our point of view is bad then we are lost, but if we will do more dmg, then we will find op rogue. This idea is really interesting for me.

"Personally I have already tested all rogue combinations. Unfortunately, we don´t have many rogues in the guild that we cannot compare all combinations at the same time in one run."

So we can go together

I will not run random with any random tank I don't and cannot hold aggro, If one run is supposed to you for "the truth"

Quote from wiedzmin97

Quote from xLutinex

https://gyazo.com/ac7b95e6bda627a320d504477ff725de

I was rogue/champ, snickars was rogue/warrior and nyex rogue/priest. 4 dps in group.

You need to reduce my damage by ~1,4kkk because I made b3. Rogue/champ is for me one of the best rogues

Kind regards

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Thanks for that run! It shows not only that r/w is... like we said a little op relative to other combinations, but also r/ch is not bad. I wish it was a r/wd in party to compare

1.5.kk over mage and 1,6kk over r/p - it confirms our words.

And you proved that even on fast runs (like yours) where mobs/bosses are killed really fast - r/w is dealing too much.

Probably here will be also (if not i will upload it then) scruts from other raids on rofl to compare what is output in normal raids where mobs are not killed so fast. And there difference between r/w and r/p is more like 3.5kk...

Regards!

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Don't see nyex as a good dps in my screen.... He had 2000-5000 ping whole time. Ty

Mage/druid

Quote from deszcz2

Quote from Snickers0815

I have to say, then your rouges probalby dind´t play the other combinations right. No offense

And that´s just wrong. Just comparing different secondary combinations with one another does not help at all for the entire balancing. When do you only have dds with the same main class and different secondary classes? You should compare all classes with each other. Of course, the individual secondary classes must be balanced with each other, but also with other classes.

But to give you a proof we like to run with rogues tonight and will post the direct comparison here in the forum.

In my opinion balance should be first done in one class and it's different combos(so every combo of this call will be viable), and then level all classes to same/similar dmg(so everything will be playable). (but this is how i would do balance)

Ok so i wait to see what you guys will get with this run i hope we all get some new experience and more usefull informations.

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https://gyazo.com/ac7b95e6bda627a320d504477ff725de

I was rogue/champ, snickars was rogue/warrior and nyex rogue/priest. 4 dps in group.

You need to reduce my damage by ~1,4kkk because I made b3. Rogue/champ is for me one of the best rogues

Kind regards

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Snickers0815

That is probably a question of how one would like to carry out the balancing. In my opinion it is difficult to balance all classes in their combinations first and then to other classes because there is no real component that can be adjusted to make all secondary classes better or worse with one change. So I prefer to set a benchmark and then adjust all classes to the value. You would then have to decide whether you want to divide the classes into categories (aoe, support, single target damage, burst damage...) and how much you weight which category. (By that I mean how much damage can you "take away" from a class if it has good support skills.)

Well but that is probably an independent topic and is decided by the devs.

I think we are circling around for some days/weeks. Only a few classes get balanced atm, most is about warden and champ, sometimes a rogue appears in patchnotes (as I feel it). Imho balancing is not possible in the current content, since we have a too massive gap in the playerbase in terms of gear.

On one hand we got the (more or less) golden player raids which just destroy all inis and bosses in a leap. On the other hand we got guilds that still struggle on Inferno, Tikal, maybe Gorge. BUT we need a balancing that matches them all, or at least most of them.

The way how it's done currently is not the way I think it's effective nor efficient. Most players complaining about their very own favorite classes and are not objective, that's a problem. Also all our raids are completely different, in our guild runs the wardens are absolute overpowered, on others the mages, and so on. It all depends on so many factors, such as available support, gear, rota engine (custom lua, kitty, diyce, slayer, whatever). So that all makes no sense at all to me.

What we need is a unite environment to test stuff. On other games I saw dummy parses where you burst on a dummy to reach a specific amount of damage and check the time after that. Same could be done for AoE with multiple dummys. But ROFL is imho the worst example to compare classes/raids or to balance classes at all.

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Even in RoFL it could be realized. If nobody runs normal mode, change it to 12 ppl instance and increase hp of all by 5-8 times. Than you have burst + sustain at same boss because of many hp and you also see good or less good aoe classes if mobs have 250kk hp 😁

Quote from espar91

Quote from xLutinex

First: I compare single boss and full run damage.

Second: rogue/warden was 1 example. Did you ever played rogue/priest or rogue/champ for example. Rogue/Champ is maybe worst aoe class in my example but it is still good

I play all classes except auto-attack classes. That is why I cannot say anything about /Magen and /warlock

rogue/mage is actually far from being an auto attack class

I know

But I don't like such skills xd

Quote from deszcz2

Quote from espar91

issue of most rogues are, if party is fast because of any other dps, most of rogues can't reach their max damage potential due to unfinished combos on mobs, even rogue/warrior needs 6 seconds to finish his poison damage to reach maximum damage. in the other and if party is fast enough even warden/warrior (worst warden in my opinion currently) is inflicting decent damage because you can use the short time with your buffs active.

so if rogue/warrior feels too strong to you, that means people in your guild are trying to destroy damage of each other rather than trying to make run faster, like how it is happening in my guild, like everyone buffing up at same place in mobs so 75% of your buff durations are being wasted etc. it is like going inferno b4 and bursting from 90% to 64% with all dpses instead of using just one in 2017.

What we want to say is that we compare rouges betwen rouges and in this comparison r/w and r/d are much more superior than other combos (maybe r/wd also as Lutine mentioned) and that should be fixed.

Oh and to say so, we compare full run dmg output not one single burst on mobs/bosses.

First: I compare single boss and full run damage.

Second: rogue/warden was 1 example. Did you ever played rogue/priest or rogue/champ for example. Rogue/Champ is maybe worst aoe class in my example but it is still good

I play all classes except auto-attack classes. That is why I cannot say anything about /Magen and /warlock

Quote from wiedzmin97

Sorry, but i must say that u probably havn't played as r/w properly if u say so. And saying that there are classes that are better than (or as good as) the r/w... well, nothing more to say. You have told before that u are running most of time in party with ~ max 1-2x pdps, maybe thats why u cant see such a difference :).

Just no offence

Anyway, developers pls look into it! Thx!

I did with rogue/warden for example 35-40kk charged chop damage on nayat and 15-20kk Power of the Wood Spirit in trash if I was fullbuffed.

I know my rogue ist not well geared, only t15 weapon, but burst single dps with nearly 60-70kk damage per second is more than rogue/warrior I guess

Quote from Burn/nick

https://gyazo.com/8f8eea46779b9ac767619525b99ceb82 wl/ch using the iss full run, The skill defiantly needed the nerf

Scout/mage Ignite has no cd with bow and does fullbuffed in rofl with only wl/mage support ~15-20kk Oo

Your ISS isn't that much strong

Quote from Lola

Quote from xLutinex

The Oak Walker still have -75% aggro. If you are at -90% and doing something alone, you should increase your aggro. Tanks also need a job. Decreasing more aggro would destroy the need of a tank in some was.

I, as a tank, never had a problem with warden pets aggro since it is at -75%

Kind regards

How many warden/druids in your party and how often? I not talk about any other wardens. So, now I should wear +aggro rune if I want to go at some solo/duo instance to make my pet not die? Sorry, but it sounds ridicilous. Cenedrils also have -75 aggro and never had that problem that he was tanking boss because of his aggro, also not had that problem in solo/duo runs with warden/druid Oak Walker before, he wasn't tanking boss or pack of mobs when Power of The Oak was active . It's happened after last patch. Why decreasing aggro would destroy the need of tank? I am not telling to decrease mine aggro, I am telling to decrease warden/druid pets aggro or at least to let him have the same aggro as I have. It's not normal that he have more aggro than I do. If it could be mine aggro problem - I prefer to see boss looking at me, not on my pet and let him attack / kill me

1 warden/Druid.

This is a MMO.

Your Oak Walker still have -75% aggro!

Why need more. That is ridiculous.

Best solution: nerf damage of oak walker. It seems to do more damage than you.

Cenedrils haven't this problem because they do not even 1/10 of oak walker damage...

Irony: i have a problem as knight to do aggro. Please give knights perma +1000% aggro thx...

Quote from TimRoys

Quote from xLutinex

The Oak Walker still have -75% aggro. If you are at -90% and doing something alone, you should increase your aggro. Tanks also need a job. Decreasing more aggro would destroy the need of a tank in some was.

I, as a tank, never had a problem with warden pets aggro since it is at -75%

Kind regards

After the last update, the pet's damage has increased. Because of this, problems with aggro

Again. Any Tank can easy hold the aggro.

If you have problems doing something solo (in a MMO), use an other rune to increase your aggro.

MMO is for playing together and teamplay and you should/need to pay attention if your tank is lower equipped

Kind regards

Quote from Lola

Quote from Laisha

I also ran as Warden/druid these last few days and I never had that problem. Oak Walker already has a 75% aggro decrease and in my case he never had aggro, except face aggro, which the tank easily took/spotted.

Greetings.

I have the same problem when run dungeons as Warden / Druid. Also I was testing him in atlas defense duo with healer. And it's a dissaster, because I had to summon Oak Walker on every wave of mobs when I was using aoe skills under Power of the Oak buff, mobs targeting Oak (because he also attacks few mobs with Sepal Stab) and he just dies. The same happens in dungeons, Oak dies and I lose half of my damage + it destroys tactics on bosses, if boss gone in immune phase tank can't even take boss till Oak not dies. Very annoying to play this class because of this.

Also I tested it solo in 100 lvl dungeon hard mode, twice killed 1st boss and both times my Oak Walker was tanking him, not me, so he does more aggro than I do. Please, fix this issue, decrease his aggro

The Oak Walker still have -75% aggro. If you are at -90% and doing something alone, you should increase your aggro. Tanks also need a job. Decreasing more aggro would destroy the need of a tank in some was.

I, as a tank, never had a problem with warden pets aggro since it is at -75%

Kind regards