Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard
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Removed Vampire Arrows cooldown time.
On Scout/Warlock, this skill still has a 10sec cooldown. On any other Scout combination the cooldown time of Vampire Arrow is scaling with attack speed. Is this intended or is it a bug?
Greetings.
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In reference to the patch on the champion.
The reduction of the Imprisonment Pulse was too high in my opinion. I know as well as the others who have played this class very much that it was too strong in many respects and a nerve is the only logical conclusion. However, as with many other classes, you should keep in mind that there is something else between being too OP and being useless. Currently there are in most cases after a patch namely only these two options with the DD classes and that can not be. If it goes on like this, the balancing will never go in a sensible direction. There will still be people who complain that one class is too strong and yours is too weak. The conclusion is a nerve for the too strong class and a push for the too weak class. An eternal circle with no visible end. As for the champion, please consider increasing the damage of the Imprisonment pulse by 15 - 20% again. The 40% reduction was just too much of a good thing.
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In reference to the patch on the champion.
The reduction of the Imprisonment Pulse was too high in my opinion. I know as well as the others who have played this class very much that it was too strong in many respects and a nerve is the only logical conclusion. However, as with many other classes, you should keep in mind that there is something else between being too OP and being useless. Currently there are in most cases after a patch namely only these two options with the DD classes and that can not be. If it goes on like this, the balancing will never go in a sensible direction. There will still be people who complain that one class is too strong and yours is too weak. The conclusion is a nerve for the too strong class and a push for the too weak class. An eternal circle with no visible end. As for the champion, please consider increasing the damage of the Imprisonment pulse by 15 - 20% again. The 40% reduction was just too much of a good thing.
I agree, 40% damage reduction for the main and only main champ aoe is too steep - i personally dont even think it was that op in the first place... Please note it has 30 s cd too... Before the nerf it was not even hitting as hard as say s/wl weakening weave coupled with the elemental discipline and that one only has 4 s cd, i just dont get it LOL Champ aoe was already behind some other classes, which was ok, but now its even more behind. I suggest to either return back to how it was or if you for some reason feel strongly that it needs a nerf (no idea why...) then please reconsider 40% - for 30s cd skill there is simply no need for such a nerf. Please also note that if mobs where you place it die - there will be no more damage, further diminishing the usefulness of aoe
Another thing that bothered me for a while - kinetic explosion - whole purpose is to reset the Imprisonment Pulse, please make it no gcd, that would make more sense.
Regards,
Rakot
Ano
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I suggest increasing the damage of Imprisonment Pulse from 217% to 250% and from 260 to 300%, while under the effect of Kinetic Explosion. Still far off the previous 362% and would be fair considering that Champ got multiple nerfs to several skills at once.
Moreover, as Rakot already said, removing the gcd from Kinetic Explosion would be a nice quality of life improvement.
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I suggest increasing the damage of Imprisonment Pulse from 217% to 250% and from 260 to 300%, while under the effect of Kinetic Explosion. Still far off the previous 362% and would be fair considering that Champ got multiple nerfs to several skills at once.
Moreover, as Rakot already said, removing the gcd from Kinetic Explosion would be a nice quality of life improvement.
Agree with Sere that these would be useful changes.
I also agree with Rakot and Sere on the removal of the GCD from Kinetic Explosion.
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Warlock / Rogue Very long preparation for dealing damage, five skills need to be used "Extraction of sensations""The Curse of weakness" "Poison fang of the spirit" "Heartache" "Step into the shadow" only then comes the main combination. He does not have time to deal damage to the boss. Also, his basic skills with damage are not instantaneous. We need to fix this.
I´m not sure which skills you partly mean.
Poison fang of the spirit = Soul Poisoned Fang?
Extraction of Sensations = Perception Extraction?
The Curse of weakness = Weakening Weave Curse?
Step into the shadow = Shadow Step?
Heartache = ??
Do you mean these skills? At "Heartache", I dont know which skill you mean. Do you know that you can set the launcher in English and the skills are then in English or that you can output the IDs of the skills with addons? This makes it easier for ohters to undertstand which skills you mean.
I´ll assume that I mean the same skills as you and give my feedback on them.
In order for the main damage skill (Crime and Punishment) to do the most damage you have to do three "debuffs" on the mob/boss. But the debuffs of ohter warlocks are also counted (Perception Extraction and Soul Pain). In trash one has problems to make these debuffs on the mobs, but many classes have problems in trash to make their "optimal" rotation. That´s why I don´t think it´s so bad that you don´t have all three debuffs on the mobs permanently. In addition, you usually always have a warlock support in the group, who can make Weakening Weave Curse, Perception Extraction and Soul Pain on the mob. Of course, each further debuff brings more damage for Crime and Punishment, but as I said, who can make the optimal damage in trash. And I have to contradict you about the non-instant skills. The class has several instant skills: Warp Charge, Shadowstab, Throw, Heart Collection Strike....Also two Psi Skills are instants. Nevertheless, I have to say that the class tends to underperform. Therefore I would suggest the following things:
Shadow Step: Instantly move behind the target just kills you as a warlock. The dark damage increment is necessary, but not worth death as a possible price. Please remove the "move behind the target" effect.
Soul Poisoned Fang: The damage over time is good for the constant damage. It would be helpful if the skill becomes an AOE so that several mobs get the dot. In larger mob group, you can´t do the skill on many targets, because the energy costs are a lot, because you also need the energy for other skills. And the class has no good AOE damage.
End of Thought: The skill is currently at most useful when the mob is below 35% and you get psi back and even then the trade is also rather semi-optimal because you swap 3 psi with some damage against 4 psi, which you only get back over 4 seconds. In addition, the combination of 3 psi and the mob has less than 35% life is not often. So I suggest that you always get 8 psi over 4 seconds (2 psi per second) and increase the CD to 20 seconds.
Liquidation Suffering: You don´t use this skill as a damage dealer because you have to go into Willpower Construct. In addition, you don´t need the aggro increase or reduce. So I would suggest changing the skill completely. Either to another damage skill or a permanent buff, since the class has no permanent buff other than Sublimation Weave Curse (which every warlock has).
One final suggestion would affect all warlocks. Hardly anyone plays the warlock as a damage dealer because they tend to underperform. So i don´t think the suggestion on any warlock combination should be too strong.
Ruthless Judgement: You should always get the buff and the buff should get a CD of 20 seconds after expiration. Just like skills from many other classes.
Thanks for reading and the suggestions are only my personal opinion.
Kind regards
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Thank you for the Ch/S change to Vampiric Enhancement, helps a lot ! However, the problem that Pulsing Shot knocks back and requires movement (which cancels out the bonus to Focus regen) remains.
Please consider removing it, it serves no purpose and is unnecessarily annoying.
I also find that the changes in Vampiric Enhancement are very helpful. Here I agree with Sere, the recoil is annoying in many ways and also a hindrance. Because on the 2nd boss in Rofl, for example, you can be pushed right into the rings. Besides, it is also a certain interruption in the skill rota. You could also if you absolutely want a restriction in the skill instead of the recoil choose another variant, a short moment immobile or life deduction or dot something like that maybe. Whereas in combination with blood arrow and new skill a life deduction might not be so advisable.
Furthermore, I see a certain problem in connection with the new skill and the blood arrow. The life you lose with both skills together is already quite high and could be a problem for the healers especially with certain ini bosses. In addition, I see it very hindering when you are in the room with the organs in combination with blood arrow and skill.
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In reference to the patch on the champion.
The reduction of the Imprisonment Pulse was too high in my opinion. I know as well as the others who have played this class very much that it was too strong in many respects and a nerve is the only logical conclusion. However, as with many other classes, you should keep in mind that there is something else between being too OP and being useless. Currently there are in most cases after a patch namely only these two options with the DD classes and that can not be. If it goes on like this, the balancing will never go in a sensible direction. There will still be people who complain that one class is too strong and yours is too weak. The conclusion is a nerve for the too strong class and a push for the too weak class. An eternal circle with no visible end. As for the champion, please consider increasing the damage of the Imprisonment pulse by 15 - 20% again. The 40% reduction was just too much of a good thing.
I agree, 40% damage reduction for the main and only main champ aoe is too steep - i personally dont even think it was that op in the first place... Please note it has 30 s cd too... Before the nerf it was not even hitting as hard as say s/wl weakening weave coupled with the elemental discipline and that one only has 4 s cd, i just dont get it LOL Champ aoe was already behind some other classes, which was ok, but now its even more behind. I suggest to either return back to how it was or if you for some reason feel strongly that it needs a nerf (no idea why...) then please reconsider 40% - for 30s cd skill there is simply no need for such a nerf. Please also note that if mobs where you place it die - there will be no more damage, further diminishing the usefulness of aoe
Another thing that bothered me for a while - kinetic explosion - whole purpose is to reset the Imprisonment Pulse, please make it no gcd, that would make more sense.
Regards,
Rakot
Ano
In my opinion this is definitly not true, that the Imprisonment Pulse was not to strong before. Yesterday I ran as a rogue with the strongest AOE at 15+ mobs and the champ, which had worse gear than mine and not even full golden had more AOE damage with Imprisonment Pulse. Also you have a setskill with AOE damage with 60 sec cd too.
Comparing with Scouts: They have a ISS with 250% damage as a channel with 60 sec CD which does not even do equal damage like Imprisonment Pulse. Yes, a scout has also Reflected Shot (3 mobs, not a "real" AOE and with CD) and Piercing Arrow (you need to be lucky to hit more than 2-3 mobs in RoFL) which does not really do AOE damage and I would categorize this skills in the same category like "Shock Strike"
In my opinion the classes (or class combinations) in general should be categorized in either strong AOE or strong single target damage.
Kind regards
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I would also like to express my view of the champion as a non-champion player. Imprisonment pulse was too strong and had to be adjusted. However, all the changes with the last patch are a bit too many. The identity of some champion classes was completely changed quite early on by balancing (champion / rogue for example). And again and again something is changed in the identity of the champions and I don't think that's right. In my opinion, and as Lutine also said, classes or class combinations in one category should be good. Of course the champion was strong in many ways, but with the changes in the last patch everything was simply reduced. Also the champion combinations that were not too strong or even rather useless. Therefore you should think carefully beforehand what your goal is. And for this it would be advantageous to communicate with the community and share your thoughts, as has been demanded so often recently. For me the champion was always a strong AOE class, but in which category you want to put the champion and which adjustments would be necessary so that he is good in this category and not over or underperformed in the others you can definitely discuss with the community.
But of course that's just my view of things and i wanted to give the devs the view of a non-champion player.
Kind regards
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I agree, 40% damage reduction for the main and only main champ aoe is too steep - i personally dont even think it was that op in the first place... Please note it has 30 s cd too... Before the nerf it was not even hitting as hard as say s/wl weakening weave coupled with the elemental discipline and that one only has 4 s cd, i just dont get it LOL Champ aoe was already behind some other classes, which was ok, but now its even more behind. I suggest to either return back to how it was or if you for some reason feel strongly that it needs a nerf (no idea why...) then please reconsider 40% - for 30s cd skill there is simply no need for such a nerf. Please also note that if mobs where you place it die - there will be no more damage, further diminishing the usefulness of aoe
Another thing that bothered me for a while - kinetic explosion - whole purpose is to reset the Imprisonment Pulse, please make it no gcd, that would make more sense.
Regards,
Rakot
Ano
In my opinion this is definitly not true, that the Imprisonment Pulse was not to strong before. Yesterday I ran as a rogue with the strongest AOE at 15+ mobs and the champ, which had worse gear than mine and not even full golden had more AOE damage with Imprisonment Pulse. Also you have a setskill with AOE damage with 60 sec cd too.
Comparing with Scouts: They have a ISS with 250% damage as a channel with 60 sec CD which does not even do equal damage like Imprisonment Pulse. Yes, a scout has also Reflected Shot (3 mobs, not a "real" AOE and with CD) and Piercing Arrow (you need to be lucky to hit more than 2-3 mobs in RoFL) which does not really do AOE damage and I would categorize this skills in the same category like "Shock Strike"
In my opinion the classes (or class combinations) in general should be categorized in either strong AOE or strong single target damage.
Kind regards
While I agree that Imprisonment Pulse definitely was a strong (maybe even too strong) AoE before the nerf, I don't see the problem with the suggested buffs to it.
From what I've seen, Rogue/Priest has very strong burst damage, much more than any Champion combination currently. Additionally, the class has good AoE damage (spammable !) both in burst and sustained.
I don't see why a class that doesn't deal comparable burst damage shouldn't be able to have the edge in AoE burst every 60 seconds, even with worse gear.
On the Scout part I agree (and support Cruvor's suggestion), but please keep in mind that Scout/Mage has excellent spammable AoE (maybe the best atm) and /Warrior & /Warden are generally very good burst classes.
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In my opinion this is definitly not true, that the Imprisonment Pulse was not to strong before. Yesterday I ran as a rogue with the strongest AOE at 15+ mobs and the champ, which had worse gear than mine and not even full golden had more AOE damage with Imprisonment Pulse. Also you have a setskill with AOE damage with 60 sec cd too.
Comparing with Scouts: They have a ISS with 250% damage as a channel with 60 sec CD which does not even do equal damage like Imprisonment Pulse. Yes, a scout has also Reflected Shot (3 mobs, not a "real" AOE and with CD) and Piercing Arrow (you need to be lucky to hit more than 2-3 mobs in RoFL) which does not really do AOE damage and I would categorize this skills in the same category like "Shock Strike"
In my opinion the classes (or class combinations) in general should be categorized in either strong AOE or strong single target damage.
Kind regards
While I agree that Imprisonment Pulse definitely was a strong (maybe even too strong) AoE before the nerf, I don't see the problem with the suggested buffs to it.
From what I've seen, Rogue/Priest has very strong burst damage, much more than any Champion combination currently. Additionally, the class has good AoE damage (spammable !) both in burst and sustained.
I don't see why a class that doesn't deal comparable burst damage shouldn't be able to have the edge in AoE burst every 60 seconds, even with worse gear.
On the Scout part I agree (and support Cruvor's suggestion), but please keep in mind that Scout/Mage has excellent spammable AoE (maybe the best atm) and /Warrior & /Warden are generally very good burst classes.
Thank you for your answer, but I did not even said anything against the suggestions for buffs.
I wanted to mention (and maybe wanted to be clearly that it is not pushing more than it was before nerf), that the AOE wasn't behind others or even "quite good" and now (after 40% nerf) useless, because it isn't useless atm.
I don't have an idea in which place the devs see the champ, that's why I also noted the point of "class categorizing"
Kind regards
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While I agree that Imprisonment Pulse definitely was a strong (maybe even too strong) AoE before the nerf, I don't see the problem with the suggested buffs to it.
From what I've seen, Rogue/Priest has very strong burst damage, much more than any Champion combination currently. Additionally, the class has good AoE damage (spammable !) both in burst and sustained.
I don't see why a class that doesn't deal comparable burst damage shouldn't be able to have the edge in AoE burst every 60 seconds, even with worse gear.
On the Scout part I agree (and support Cruvor's suggestion), but please keep in mind that Scout/Mage has excellent spammable AoE (maybe the best atm) and /Warrior & /Warden are generally very good burst classes.
Thank you for your answer, but I did not even said anything against the suggestions for buffs.
I wanted to mention (and maybe wanted to be clearly that it is not pushing more than it was before nerf), that the AOE wasn't behind others or even "quite good" and now (after 40% nerf) useless, because it isn't useless atm.
I don't have an idea in which place the devs see the champ, that's why I also noted the point of "class categorizing"
Kind regards
Your post implies this though, at least to me as a reader. Hence my answer.
I personally don't think the nerf to Imprisonment Pulse has to be reverted in its entirety.
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I would also like to express my view of the champion as a non-champion player. Imprisonment pulse was too strong and had to be adjusted. However, all the changes with the last patch are a bit too many. The identity of some champion classes was completely changed quite early on by balancing (champion / rogue for example). And again and again something is changed in the identity of the champions and I don't think that's right. In my opinion, and as Lutine also said, classes or class combinations in one category should be good. Of course the champion was strong in many ways, but with the changes in the last patch everything was simply reduced. Also the champion combinations that were not too strong or even rather useless. Therefore you should think carefully beforehand what your goal is. And for this it would be advantageous to communicate with the community and share your thoughts, as has been demanded so often recently. For me the champion was always a strong AOE class, but in which category you want to put the champion and which adjustments would be necessary so that he is good in this category and not over or underperformed in the others you can definitely discuss with the community.
But of course that's just my view of things and i wanted to give the devs the view of a non-champion player.
Kind regards
I think that's very good and I agree with that completely. Above all, an opinion from an outsider who not only complains this or that class is too strong and must be annoyed without the said person even makes a thought about what you would have to change at all.
In my opinion, the community must be involved if the devs want to achieve a good and meaningful balancing. We play the classes! No matter which one! A majority of players from each class who also have knowledge of their class should discuss what changes are useful so that they can then be discussed with the devs and implemented if necessary. This was already a known problem on the Offi, which is why there was never a meaningful balancing of the classes. Currently, it has more the appearance of a grab box which changes are drawn today, are implemented times roughly expressed. This will never work! The community must be included so that the changes are meaningful and there are not any patches every week in which the one or the other class is completely destroyed.
In this sense, have a nice evening.
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Thank you for your answer, but I did not even said anything against the suggestions for buffs.
I wanted to mention (and maybe wanted to be clearly that it is not pushing more than it was before nerf), that the AOE wasn't behind others or even "quite good" and now (after 40% nerf) useless, because it isn't useless atm.
I don't have an idea in which place the devs see the champ, that's why I also noted the point of "class categorizing"
Kind regards
Your post implies this though, at least to me as a reader. Hence my answer.
I personally don't think the nerf to Imprisonment Pulse has to be reverted in its entirety.
Just did a run on ch/s, huge focus issues aside, the Imprisonment Pulse was 12% of the total damage, ranked 5th, so yeah while not useless of course, it is still low for a main aoe, and as i said before the nerf champ was behind on aoe with some classes, and now its even more. I am in favor of Sere's proposal to do as he suggested: "217% to 250% and from 260 to 300%, while under the effect of Kinetic Explosion"
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Thank you for your answer, but I did not even said anything against the suggestions for buffs.
I wanted to mention (and maybe wanted to be clearly that it is not pushing more than it was before nerf), that the AOE wasn't behind others or even "quite good" and now (after 40% nerf) useless, because it isn't useless atm.
I don't have an idea in which place the devs see the champ, that's why I also noted the point of "class categorizing"
Kind regards
Your post implies this though, at least to me as a reader. Hence my answer.
I personally don't think the nerf to Imprisonment Pulse has to be reverted in its entirety.
No, I agree with that, it should not be undone, but again some more damage should be added to the skill. Your suggestion regarding an increase is absolutely fine.
Best regards -
I would also like to express my view of the champion as a non-champion player. Imprisonment pulse was too strong and had to be adjusted. However, all the changes with the last patch are a bit too many. The identity of some champion classes was completely changed quite early on by balancing (champion / rogue for example). And again and again something is changed in the identity of the champions and I don't think that's right. In my opinion, and as Lutine also said, classes or class combinations in one category should be good. Of course the champion was strong in many ways, but with the changes in the last patch everything was simply reduced. Also the champion combinations that were not too strong or even rather useless. Therefore you should think carefully beforehand what your goal is. And for this it would be advantageous to communicate with the community and share your thoughts, as has been demanded so often recently. For me the champion was always a strong AOE class, but in which category you want to put the champion and which adjustments would be necessary so that he is good in this category and not over or underperformed in the others you can definitely discuss with the community.
But of course that's just my view of things and i wanted to give the devs the view of a non-champion player.
Kind regards
Champ as an aoe king was before they changed it, now it is mostly sustained with ok (with the nerf) aoe and ok-solid (thanks to latest added skill now solid from ok) burst; roll back some on the aoe and i guess i would be ok, but please stop changing things all the time lol. The class was fine, just readjust others, if you keep changing all combos all the time, its very annoying. Some feedback and/or discussion with the community would be really good too, i agree. Some changes like decrease in pd for wd, decrease in hp for champ and so on - not sure why; wd tank only a masochist would play it due to huge pa decrease, and dps were not able to tank bosses with old pd or hp, it seems like some changes are not well thought through.
Cheers!
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wd tank only a masochist would play it due to huge pa decrease
Cheers!
Sorry, but why should a tank have a problem with p-attack reduce? That does not change anything for aggro in plate gear if you play as warden/warrior for example.
I tested warden as tank right now and the aggro is good with gorge weapon
Kind regards
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"Sorry, but why should a tank have a problem with p-attack reduce? That does not change anything for aggro in plate gear if you play as warden/warrior for example."
I prefer tank that can also help to do damage, thats why, so its not just agro for me, but this is my personal view of course
I mentioned it before - with the same gear, I will do more damage and have more pa on champ over wd, thats why I said only a masochist would tank it. You can do it yes and agro is fine (I mean nowdays agro is so easy now that champ was changed haha), but why not then go to champ and tank and also help with dps. Wd tank is my fav but i refuse to be hindered by such pa loss for no reason, I wish devs would see it too :(.
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I tested the warlock/rogue again in rofl and have to say that he performs worse than I remembered. The basic idea and mechanics are good, only the damage itself is very low. I would therefore make a few additions to my previous suggestions.
Soul Poisoned Fang: The damage over time is good for the constant damage. It would be helpful if the skill becomes an AOE so that several mobs get the dot. In larger mob group, you can´t do the skill on many targets, because the energy costs are a lot, because you also need the energy for other skills. And the class has no good AOE damage.
In additon, the dot can be increased furhter. The damage so far is still quite low.
Crime and Punishment: Change the skill so that the additional debuffs on the mob do not increase the damage by 10%, but trigger the skill again. 2x debuff = 3x Crime and Punishment, 3x debuff = 4x Crime and Punishment. Because the damage is a joke. Fully buffed with 5 debuffs on the first boss in rofl, the skill made 24kk+-. With this change, the skill should only benefit from maximum of one debuff per art. By that I mean that it doesn´t matter how much Soul Pain and Perception Extraction there are on the mob. The skill can be triggered a maximum of 3 times in addition to the normal damage (once by Soul Pain, once by Perception Extraction and once by Soul Poisoned Fang).
Kind regards
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Warriors are weak, Сhampion become much weak, Warden is also very weak. Who is next?
Stop touching pdps. People are already tired of changing weapons and equipment.
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What about s/ch no sustain dmg at all...
and joint blow and vampire arrow is so low range that skills are useless in ini. Ppl gave up on scouts or what? 
I dont see anything about scouts any more and no many scouts in game also only magical ones. As Lutine SAID MAKE SCOUTS GREAT AGAIN . If u would boost abit Piercing Arrow and Rain of Vengeance it would be better to play. -
Warriors are weak, Сhampion become much weak, Warden is also very weak. Who is next?
Stop touching pdps. People are already tired of changing weapons and equipment.
In my experience, warriors are not "weak" at all. There are warrior classes, which have decent damage. Comparing to scouts (except scout/mage) even stronger than scouts.
What about s/ch no sustain dmg at all...
and joint blow and vampire arrow is so low range that skills are useless in ini. Ppl gave up on scouts or what? I dont see anything about scouts any more and no many scouts in game also only magical ones. As Lutine SAID MAKE SCOUTS GREAT AGAIN . If u would boost abit Piercing Arrow and Rain of Vengeance it would be better to play.I don't know what to say about scouts and what the class should be able for. Right now yes, if you have leather gear many rogue classes out dps a scout in burst/sustain and AOE except scout/mage. The main problem for me is, that scouts have very strong short time buffs (Arrow of Essence, Hunter Stance), which are increasing the damage very strong. But the damage with these buffs is not "OP". The result is, if the buffs are not up, the sustain is kinda low. I tried my favorite scout (Scout/Rogue) yesterday again with 3 vampire arrow in raid (ppl are kind enough to do it *g*) but the sustain damage even with this support is totally low.
Scout/mage atm is too strong in AOE, the strongest AOE the game ever had i guess and have a decent sustain too compared to scout classes. But Cruvor or me are thinking about a good change to suggest it here.
Kind regards
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Warriors are weak, Сhampion become much weak, Warden is also very weak. Who is next?
Stop touching pdps. People are already tired of changing weapons and equipment.
In my experience, warriors are not "weak" at all. There are warrior classes, which have decent damage. Comparing to scouts (except scout/mage) even stronger than scouts.
I tried Warrior / Rogue in ROFL after update
And I was disappointed.
- Increased Frenzy duration to 25 seconds, decreased physical damage gain to 10%, decreased attack speed gain to 16%, fixed it was
- Reduced Frenzied Attack damage to 210% offhand weapon DPS, increased duration to 30 seconds.
only killed this class
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I totaly agree scouts got no sustain at all. After burst or spells are on CD ur dps is non existant. Pls change something out of this we need some more sustain dmg. I love S/ch its fun to play but w/o sustain dmg kinda fall off from other classes. Leather gear is only for rogues at least in end game content.