Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Noodlez

Sure lets be ironic and passiv aggressive towards each other.

Most mages can actually be played by hand, i have legit zero clue what you are talking about.

But hey, being part of the guild Ascension means you are intellectually above me and your opinion is worth more than mine even tho you contradict yourself.

Sorry if you feel offended by my posting, that was not my intention. I think, you can optimize your dps on any mage by about 50-70% while writing a lua script rota that fits 100% to your personal gameplay. I mean, I alrdy saw rlly good players playing by hands, but the majority is not on that level (also I would rather play a dps with combat engine tho).

I wouldn't say that Ascension is the number one guild overall xD Hell no, but we try our best to optimize our runs, in order to make it as comfortable as possible for all of us. If that means we take more supp than dps, so be it. I can only speak for my experiences in my guild, bcz I don't like random runs at all and try not to participate on too many of them. So if you guys tell me that all our pdps are just bad, I accept your opinion; my mdps also isn't perfect, maybe I rlly have a "wrong" point of view, we will never know

And exactly THIS leads me to my major point: That we need a unified dps testing environment, as I suggested above. It doesn't matter what we all say about balancing if we compare in an entirely randomized environment. I mean, we could ofc, but that wouldn't be effective. I know that from another server I was playing in the past (which is closed now). We had an exact same (as suggested) environment, so we could balance the entire game within about 2-3 months for one levelcap. It's not a big deal if you can discuss on a very same basis. But what do I know

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First paragraph: I agree that it helps a lot, but it kinda feels like you are saying that your mages are better than ours because you have more optimized rotations. I mean maybe? But you dont really know how we have our stuff set up so that would kinda miss the point.

Second paragraph: I will not deny the possibility of me being wrong in this entire discussion. It was more about the way you guys are representing yourselves on the forums. But whatever this is a discussion thread so lets keep it at that.

Third part: Totally agree. But still people(guilds) would need to work together since different setups(raid combinations, support etc.) would just yield the same variet results we have at the moment. But yeah maybe a really good step to finally get balancing peace.

Quote from Noodlez

Second paragraph: I will not deny the possibility of me being wrong in this entire discussion. It was more about the way you guys are representing yourselves on the forums. But whatever this is a discussion thread so lets keep it at that.

Third part: Totally agree. But still people(guilds) would need to work together since different setups(raid combinations, support etc.) would just yield the same variet results we have at the moment. But yeah maybe a really good step to finally get balancing peace.

I agree. The forum generally is a bad place to judge character, as many of us have learned the hard way. People sounding like absolute jerks here are actually quite friendly when you talk to them. I would like to make sure no bad blood remains from this interaction here.

A uniform testing environment would be insanely advantageous to determining the notbale outliers - perhaps we could rework the PvP arena to be a multi-target zone, different corners with different (de)buffs being applied (e.g. none, wl buffs only, additional supports...) and give the baltons in the itnal camp the immunity to aoe of the organs in Jerath have, so that you can have a true single-target experience.

Quote from espar91

im using kitty combo and its quite enough for everything, there is nothing i can't do in kittycombo but in a lua script. i don't think i can do better damage with a lua script either.

is there nowadays a possibility in kitty to use skills depending on classes in group? It's just one example I use. If I play a scout/x and there is a scout/rogue in group, I use Vampire Arrows, otherwise not. Same goes for Manadrain Shot if Scout/warrior is in group. I don't use kitty but I have other several things kitty combo (3-4 years ago) didn't have

For playing rogue, kitty is enough I guess, but as scouts with weapon swap need depending on attack speed, I don't think so

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from espar91

im using kitty combo and its quite enough for everything, there is nothing i can't do in kittycombo but in a lua script. i don't think i can do better damage with a lua script either.

is there nowadays a possibility in kitty to use skills depending on classes in group? It's just one example I use. If I play a scout/x and there is a scout/rogue in group, I use Vampire Arrows, otherwise not. Same goes for Manadrain Shot if Scout/warrior is in group. I don't use kitty but I have other several things kitty combo (3-4 years ago) didn't have

For playing rogue, kitty is enough I guess, but as scouts with weapon swap need depending on attack speed, I don't think so

yes, regular kittycombo is very basic addon and has very few conditions. kittycombo (the one in ArcadiaUtilities) has extra conditions such as "script" where you can do basically anything as you can do in diyce/lua.

personally, i would say only benefit of external scripts for me is i wouldn't need to press "save variables" button 325 times to be sure everything is saved properly before i log out after making a kitty because of most of the time not working variable save system of this game.

Hello there

Wd/W:

Skill "Frantic Briar" ID: 1490330 have desription that says "if Spirit of The Oak is summoned, it will icrease damage taken of targets by 10% for 15 sec...." but effect it provide on targets gives only 6% damage increament.

Plz fix description or skill effect.

Rogue on melte:

Using a blind point (jump behind the boss's back) causes the character to be thrown under the water

(It's really hot in my home but i don't like this)

Please fix it

no, our magicians are not better than yours, and your pdps are very good)

rather, our and your magicians are about equally good

Quote from Noodlez

Quote from Zyrex

Sorry if you feel offended by my posting, that was not my intention. I think, you can optimize your dps on any mage by about 50-70% while writing a lua script rota that fits 100% to your personal gameplay. I mean, I alrdy saw rlly good players playing by hands, but the majority is not on that level (also I would rather play a dps with combat engine tho).

I wouldn't say that Ascension is the number one guild overall xD Hell no, but we try our best to optimize our runs, in order to make it as comfortable as possible for all of us. If that means we take more supp than dps, so be it. I can only speak for my experiences in my guild, bcz I don't like random runs at all and try not to participate on too many of them. So if you guys tell me that all our pdps are just bad, I accept your opinion; my mdps also isn't perfect, maybe I rlly have a "wrong" point of view, we will never know

And exactly THIS leads me to my major point: That we need a unified dps testing environment, as I suggested above. It doesn't matter what we all say about balancing if we compare in an entirely randomized environment. I mean, we could ofc, but that wouldn't be effective. I know that from another server I was playing in the past (which is closed now). We had an exact same (as suggested) environment, so we could balance the entire game within about 2-3 months for one levelcap. It's not a big deal if you can discuss on a very same basis. But what do I know

First paragraph: I agree that it helps a lot, but it kinda feels like you are saying that your mages are better than ours because you have more optimized rotations. I mean maybe? But you dont really know how we have our stuff set up so that would kinda miss the point.

Second paragraph: I will not deny the possibility of me being wrong in this entire discussion. It was more about the way you guys are representing yourselves on the forums. But whatever this is a discussion thread so lets keep it at that.

Third part: Totally agree. But still people(guilds) would need to work together since different setups(raid combinations, support etc.) would just yield the same variet results we have at the moment. But yeah maybe a really good step to finally get balancing peace.

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Just realised in ROFL the Scout 99 ISS "Shock Frost Arrow" (490421) misses on all the mobs that I targeted. Do I need wisdom to hit them with it?

Quote from Byte

Quote from Zyrex

Just realised in ROFL the Scout 99 ISS "Shock Frost Arrow" (490421) misses on all the mobs that I targeted. Do I need wisdom to hit them with it?

The effect of this skill is for disabling target entirely for 3 seconds, and almost every custom content creature is resistant to such effect.

Greetings

Alright.. then... maybe make it useful? Not like disabling the mobs but stunning on a normal way?

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Byte

The effect of this skill is for disabling target entirely for 3 seconds, and almost every custom content creature is resistant to such effect.

Greetings

Alright.. then... maybe make it useful? Not like disabling the mobs but stunning on a normal way?

Its the same with skills that fear (also don't work). But "Schock Frost Arrow" works on bosses in rofl (which is better than nothing I guess)

S/M

Another thing, since all skills (except fireball and lightning strike) are hitting physical, the Throught Squeezing Seal (the magical amulet from Dreamland) isn't working on a proper way It just stacks up with any fireball for me, which is... unfortunate. Could you maybe change that?

Champion

• Changed Secret Techniques of the Ruins to additionally increase damage dealt by party members by 10% for 20 seconds if it is used while under effect of Shield Form, but using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state.

Really thanks for this change!

Champion

• Changed Secret Techniques of the Ruins to additionally increase damage dealt by party members by 10% for 20 seconds if it is used while under effect of Shield Form, but using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state.

Why does the group buff (20s) last longer than the selfbuff (15s) ? Please reduce its duration to 15 seconds as well.

Quote from Serenadae

Champion

• Changed Secret Techniques of the Ruins to additionally increase damage dealt by party members by 10% for 20 seconds if it is used while under effect of Shield Form, but using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state.

Why does the group buff (20s) last longer than the selfbuff (15s) ? Please reduce its duration to 15 seconds as well.

Maybe because the value of the buff is lower on the group buff? higher uptime -> lower buff and vise versa

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

Champion

• Changed Secret Techniques of the Ruins to additionally increase damage dealt by party members by 10% for 20 seconds if it is used while under effect of Shield Form, but using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state.

Why does the group buff (20s) last longer than the selfbuff (15s) ? Please reduce its duration to 15 seconds as well.

Maybe because the value of the buff is lower on the group buff? higher uptime -> lower buff and vise versa

Well, 10% for the whole group sounds more potent than a 15% selfbuff to me.

Quote from Serenadae

Quote from xLutinex

Maybe because the value of the buff is lower on the group buff? higher uptime -> lower buff and vise versa

Well, 10% for the whole group sounds more potent than a 15% selfbuff to me.

i dont see the problem? you as champ can get both buffs. And no dps champ would use the group buff, because you need shield form for it

@devs: for the upcoming ISS104 change of champions. You should force the caster to stay in shield form, if the skill is used in shield form

"using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state." doesn't it mean you can't change form after using this skill?

So caster is forced to stay in shield form

@Lutine

Quote from deszcz2

"using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state." doesn't it mean you can't change form after using this skill?

@Lutine

elmo: I guess skills like demo-mode will get into CD. But you can cancel Shield Form ( I guess maybe?). Didn't play champ for a long time. There are other ISS which get you out of shield form and let you have no mode. If those ISS don't get CD, you are not forced to stay in shield form

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from deszcz2

"using it will put every skill, which are changing casters form, into 20 seconds of cooldown state." doesn't it mean you can't change form after using this skill?

@Lutine

elmo: I guess skills like demo-mode will get into CD. But you can cancel Shield Form ( I guess maybe?). Didn't play champ for a long time. There are other ISS which get you out of shield form and let you have no mode. If those ISS don't get CD, you are not forced to stay in shield form

well i understand part of "every skill" means everything that can somehow change your form, so maybe you can cancel shield form, but won't be able to turn on it again for 20 sec but we will see, and even after this patch we only would need to report all those unwanted dependencies

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

Well, 10% for the whole group sounds more potent than a 15% selfbuff to me.

i dont see the problem? you as champ can get both buffs. And no dps champ would use the group buff, because you need shield form for it

I just don't get why they increased the duration of the group buff to 20 seconds compared to the 15 seconds vanilla version.

Not a big deal, but it kinda contradicts their efforts to reduce overall group damage.

Quote from Serenadae

Quote from xLutinex

i dont see the problem? you as champ can get both buffs. And no dps champ would use the group buff, because you need shield form for it

I just don't get why they increased the duration of the group buff to 20 seconds compared to the 15 seconds vanilla version.

Not a big deal, but it kinda contradicts their efforts to reduce overall group damage.

10% damage and 20 seconds uptime results in less full burst damage output of group than 15% damage + 15 seconds uptime. I don't know if you want 15 seconds + 15% (like the vanilla version)

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

I just don't get why they increased the duration of the group buff to 20 seconds compared to the 15 seconds vanilla version.

Not a big deal, but it kinda contradicts their efforts to reduce overall group damage.

10% damage and 20 seconds uptime results in less full burst damage output of group than 15% damage + 15 seconds uptime. I don't know if you want 15 seconds + 15% (like the vanilla version)

No, the iss gave 15% attackspeed not damage done. The 10% of the current version affect classes that couldn't utilize the previous version (which is the idea behind the change to damage done), resulting in more group damage than before. At least in mixed groups that make up the majority of runs I'd say.

I think it's reasonable to just cut the new group buff to 15 seconds.