Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    We all know the Rogue/Scout is way too strong.

    But I think this nerf would destroy the class :

    • Reduced Joint Blow damage to 960% from 1125%.
    • Increased Wraith Attack damage loss for each extra target to 9% from 6%.
    • Reduce Substitute Shot damage to 120% from 400%

    It's way too much at once.


    I can aggree to these changes :

    • Reduced Joint Blow damage to 960% from 1125%.
    • Increased Wraith Attack damage loss for each extra target to 9% from 6%.

    BUT :

    Reduce Substitute Shot damage to 120% from 400%.

    Is too much, I think it would be better : Reduce Substitute Shot damage to 250 - 300% from 400%.


    Greetings!:)

    Wanna get better ? Just play leather ツ

    Like 5

    You forgot to mention (if these changes were still there. I looked at 6 CET) that you get ~15% more damage from blood arrow for all skills and substitute can be permanent up. Overall not a hard nerf. We will see if it is a nerf. Shadow stab, Low Blow and wound attack will also profit of blood arrow increase

    D/R (w/ new hammer)


    I tested the Druid/Rogue these days with the new magical dmg hammer. I found some points to mention.


    Poisonous Widow Embrace

    • skill needs 10 energy, not 30 as displayed
    • the 10% bonus damage is buggy: the break even point is 3 stacks of Nature's Power, means you need at least 3 Stacks so that this skill is better than Earch Arrow. But with 3 stacks, the skill hits with 10 bonus hits like with 10 stacks.
    • The Nature's Power is also not removed in general, but only if you don't crit with the spell.


    However, the skill is pretty good how it is atm. So even if it's buggy, it should be officially changed into the current behavior. The class is pretty strong in some specific raid setups, but unfortunately feels a bit weaker than any other magical dps class, except S/Wl. I would say, it's equal to SWl. Lesser Burst, better sustain dmg, but good AoE.


    So I would say, even Poisonous Widow Embrace is quite good atm. If the skill would work as displayed (30 energy cost, remove all NP by using) it would be unplayable and deal literally no damage.


    Another good thing would be to add the same mechanic to Sandstorm: That Nature's Power is only removed, if the skill does not crit. The concept of the class is pretty cool: You have a great dmg potential but loose a lot if you don't crit. However, you have a lot of crit-support/buffs/debuffs, so you need a good management of time to max out your crit potential.


    Another suggestion I agree on, is the Dwarven Beer to add additional NP, which would make all druid dps classes much more playable, since they are definitely the weakest magical classes (right next to SWl).

    • Official Post

    There is no bug. Every critical hit made by skill will recover a certain amount of energy. Every critical hit made by skill will provide 1 stacks of Nature's Point, so if you have 1 Nature's Point, you can still do 10x hits as long as every consecutive attack is critical.


    This information were missing in skill tooltip, will be added with next patch.


    Greetings

    Hi,


    in my tests Poisonous Widow Embrace needs 30 energy. But every additional hit with NP will give you some energy back.

    Furthermore I don't think the class needs NP with dwarven Ale. Wach Druid have their own skill which reduce the NP cost of all skills to 0 . It is like a class specific dwarven ale.


    The Druid/rogue cannot be a burst class, because you have not such selfbuffs like rogue or scout. But the sustained damage is strong



    Edit: to slow on phone writing xd

    Quote from Byte

    There is no bug. Every critical hit made by skill will recover a certain amount of energy. Every critical hit made by skill will provide 1 stacks of Nature's Point, so if you have 1 Nature's Point, you can still do 10x hits as long as every consecutive attack is critical.


    This information were missing in skill tooltip, will be added with next patch.


    Greetings

    Thanks for the info, that's good to know. I rlly like that behavior and the mechanics. However, the same or an equal mechanic would be cool for Sandstorm in AoE dmg. At the moment it happens, that you loose all your NP with Sandstorm and can't use your Widow spamable effectively on single targets afterwards to finish surviving mobs. In our runs, the surviving mobs died too fast, not being able to hit with Earth Arrow.

    Quote from xLutinex

    Furthermore I don't think the class needs NP with dwarven Ale. Wach Druid have their own skill which reduce the NP cost of all skills to 0 . It is like a class specific dwarven ale.


    The Druid/rogue cannot be a burst class, because you have not such selfbuffs like rogue or scout. But the sustained damage is strong

    I don't say it needs to be a burst class, it's good how it is atm, but only use case for dwarven ale would be sustained trash dps, which is very bad compared to other classes due to sandstorm is using all your NP at once.

    This class design isn't made to perma use sandstorm, is pure single dmg class (yes you can use sandstorm in burst but having really low earth dmg make it worst mdps aoe class). Right now is true, I think in overall dmg is underperforming compared to most mdps and is because they all have aoe so as single dmg class is really hard to scale up. New hammer might help but yes, something is missing.

    Ale won't change anything, aoe require 5 NP and single dmg skill 10 so... xDD get 1 psi per second won't help :(


    btw, I think dwl is even worse.

    You think overall the class is underperforming? :O

    I did not test mage for a long time, but what I did with druid/rogue with my gear was good. It could depend on fast/slow pace and the rhythm how the tank pulls If we have different experience. Maybe I need to test mage again.

    Mage is better in overall due to having better aoes, perma using thunderstorm and static field is the key. Those 2 skills push mages dmg a lot. Warlocks are better aswell, specially the new ones.

    D/R have fast single dmg "burst" so maybe in fast groups perform better? In our Hades playstyle, mage (specially sustained ones, ms and mch) and most wl are better option atleast.

    a small quality of life proposal for the warrior. I would remove the gcd from surprise attack. One is already slower with the use of the skills than with other motion-enhancing buffs and then to consume a gcd slows down the warrior rather even more. But used correctly, the skill is a good support skill for the whole group.


    Greetings

    Ok today i was at Rofl as d/r and i got one main tought:


    Fact that some bosses have "immunity" during fight (b2, b4, b5) and what comes from this are misses with "Poisonous Widow Embrace". And there we have most annoying thing ---> after one cast in this immunity without "Focus of Mother Nature" consumes all NP that is rlly bad for this specific combination.

    It would be nice if we could somehow prevent loosing those nature points after hiting boss with immune. "Poisonous Widow Embrace" is d/r main dmg source so it would be nice if we won't loose it in short periods of immunity at bossfights.


    Thx for response :D

    W/K


    Just to mention this class again, it's still missing some small adaption to become viable in my opinion. At least 1 of these suggestions should solve the problem this class currently has:

    • Whirlwind Battle Technique: Increase radius of "Whirlwind" to 80 from 50.
    • Heroic Surprise Attack: Increase radius of "Surprise Attack" to 80 from 60.
    • Fierce Attack: Change "Throw Shield" to additionally hit up to 6 surrounding mobs in a 80 range, just like "Power of the Wood Spirit" of Warlock/Warden, with the same aggro multiplier as the "Throw Shield" skill itself.

    Personally I would prefer the Shielf Throw mechanic. I was told, once in the past, there already was some similar kind of mechanic, but was changed. Maybe we can bring it back?

    Hello,


    I wanted to mention, that the skill "Nature's Cleanse" (ID: 1490927) isn't working in all situations. For example if there is a small hill, sometimes the ppl in range will not be cleaned. Furthermore I have the feeling, that also cenedrils can block the skill, if they are between you and the other players. We had this sometimes at Boss 1 rofl (Nayat) with the guardians debuff, that it wasn't cleaned, even standing in less than 50 range to target.


    Kind regards

    D/R


    I was just playing the D/R in rofl and found 2 very strange bugs of Poisonous Widow Embrace. I also tested this on dummy and it took me a really long time to figure out how this actually works.


    1) The skill description says, you get back NP equal to the amount of crits, but in reality the behavior is different: You always loose 10 NP (even if you enter the negative digits <0) and restores NP for each crit.


    Example: You have 3 NP, the skill crits for 6 times. First it subtracts 10 NP, so you are at -7. Then it restores 6, so you are at -1, which is shown as 0 and the buff is removed.


    So the solution is: Don't let the skill subtract lower than 0, so you will be rewarded for crits, not punished for non-crits (as it is atm).


    2) As long as you have only 1 NP, the skill always tries to hit 10 times but once you don't crit, the additional hits will end. See this screenshot for clarifying:


    48ae08ade4df30c6c4c1ac03d2d3cdfa.png

    The skill "tries" to hit 10 times but the 5th hit is non-critical, so it determines after that. This behavior only occurs at exact 1 NP.


    With more than 1 NP, always 10 hits come out, but they behave as mentioned in (1).

    As Byte explained to me the first day of this class, with 1NP you can do 10 hits if they are all crit. Once you do a normal hit, skill stop doing dmg. Isn't weird behavior, is how they designed it.

    • Official Post

    If you have 1 Nature's Power, you will have 1 extra hit chance. If you successfully land a critical hit with that extra hit, you will obtain 1 Nature's Power again and skill will check your Nature's Power after that to use the second extra hit, until you don't obtain any Nature's Power back.

    If you have 3 Nature's Power, it will go between 2 and 3 until you do not land a critical hit, not -7. So as long as you have a Nature's Power, you will have a chance to do 10 extra hits as long as you do land critical hits, this is intended and not considered as a bug.


    Greetings

    SCh


    I noticed that the function and description of "Geschmiedeter Schuss" does not match.

    Either the description (max stacksize 10) or the function (max stacksize 4) does not work properly.


    Also


    I do not like the range of "Gelenkschlag" (Range: 50)

    It forces you, as a range dps, to go into melee range

    I suggest to raise it up to 200 or 220

    With other Scout Combos this skill already has a 200 range, because it's an issue of the GUN.


    Byte

    But since you changed Auto Shot (with gun) to range 230, i think its ok to change the range of "Gelenkschlag" too

    Mage:


    I would like to propose a change in the duration of the Energy Flow skill.



    Currently, it lasts 186 seconds and it needs to be renewed very often during the instance. It would be great if it lasted as long as Fire Protection, which is 600 seconds. :thumbup:

    Greetings,
    I have two things I'd like to talk about:


    1)
    I really like the concept of the Ch/W as a tank. Sadly it can't compete with other tanks in most endgame situations due to the lack of meaningful AoE aggro abilities. It's pretty nice in single target aggro though - something that a champion already doesn't struggle with!


    A simple fix for this would be to give Detonation of VengeanceID: 499850 an aggro increase like other taunts, 5% on top of the base aggro; or remove the taunt altogether and add a hefty aggro multiplier in shield form.


    2)
    The D/W is the most underperforming chain-class that currently exists in the game. The concept is good, but in it's current state, it's just not worth playing at all. It's clunky and has abyssmal rage and odd nature power management, on top of not having the needed survivability that other melee classes have. Even further, it has two skills that trigger no GCD that both consume quite a chunk of rage, often creating holes in one's combo where one may not be able to attack until some more rage is generated.


    The biggest issue the class has with it's rage management is that it's directly linked to nature power - much like the WLs are linked to their PSI in order to deal high damage. To generate rage, the player must first use heart breaker; spending one nature point in the process. This forces said player to then use nature attack, every second heartbreaker, losing one basic attack and negating the rage gain of heart breaker entirely, as one basic attack restores 18 rage, netting the effective rage gain to 12; but keep in mind that in a scenario like that, one may not use the elevated damage of cross thorn blow.


    To fix these issues, I have come up with some changes to the class

    Here is my proposal:


    - Change Healing Winds494365 to a passive skill that grants stacks upon healing your team. Each stack provides 3% area damage reduction to yourself, stacking up to 8-10 times(Total: 24-30% less area damage recieved)

    This is similar to the reduction in Damage many main chain classes that currently are meta have.

    You automatically gain stacks while performing basic attacks (thanks to staff of glory) or you can press your heals manually to stack up. They won't heal all that much, but it'll work!


    - Natural Attack494016 should be turned into an area of effect like the Warden's "Power of the wood spirit" as the chaining mechanic is very clunky and quite confusing at times, whereas targets directly in front of you may not be hit, but some, far away, might be attacked. This mechanic is great on scouts, doesn't really work on a melee class.
    It also should cost mana instead of rage, removing the barrier of entry to generate nature power.


    - Heart Breaker494216 needs to have it's nature power cost removed and always deal the elevated damage, cutting out the need for natural attack on bosses to deal it's damage


    - Strike494949 should generate one nature power during use.


    Have a blessed day,
    Midan

    A bug on M/S:

    -Fire Rose Explosion stop our instruments cast.


    This class pet is the only one with old pets mechanic, no teleport to mob and/or no extra speed movement. Please consider a look into this because pet is useless between bosses, it's almost impossible to hit once.

    Hi,


    I noticed that somehing was changed with calculating damage reduce skills for example magical damage reduce of the knight. (and I didnt found in patch notes)

    I know a few weeks ago, that you were magical immune as a Knight if you had the new ISS (30%) + Shield of Discipline (68,8%) + Fire Ward (11,4%) because it was added in the formula (30 + 68 + 11).

    Today I noticed that something changed, that all buffs were multiplied which means, you cannot be magical immune as a Knight anymore (ok, that is something good in some way) but this results more and more in a way, that knights will be more and more useless. Less aggro than champion in dps gear, less def/hp than champions in dps gear and now less damage reduce with Shield of Discipline which results in a way that even this main tanky skill of the class is less effective.

    Actually there is no need anymore to play Knight imho. If you want to wear plate gear (why ever you want), play champ/knight -> more aggro/def/hp/utility and nearly same damage reduce (base damage will be even smaller on champ/knight)


    Kind regards

    I noticed aswell as wl/k. Maybe is this:

    • Changed physical and magical absorb attributes to do not stack by summing.

    Hmm could be. Makes some classes a bit weak imho. Didnt thought about it because I thought "Absorb" is different than dmg reduce skills ^^