Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from melodic

    I understand the issue you are having, but:

    Quote from MidanLauert

    The investment is extreme (8-9 new pieces of gear) for a mediocore outcome. One could just play a champion and be able to tank in damage gear without having specialized equipment.

    Quote from MidanLauert

    This is why classes that want to play as tank should be able and partially even forced to wear plate armour IMO.

    ...statements like these dont go with each other. If you want to force tanks to wear (partially) plate, whats wrong with wearing tanky accessory, wings, offhands etc? There it does not even matter if you already own that sort of gear or if you have to build new pieces, as you can use them on any class the same.

    The statements go together fine if you take them into context. The investment for chain-tank-gear is way to big as you already agree for its mediocore outcome. And I've tried the Wd/Ch as a tank with tank wings and accessory. It's not good. The class doesn't have the tools it needs to have to be able to compete with other tanks.

    The word partially in that sense is confusing, just to be clear: Some of the tanks should get the option to wear plate or be forced to play plate if they want to tank, not only need plate gear in parts. Wd/W already does this and it works fine (though the class isn't played for other reasons).

    Quote from melodic

    That being said I can only repeat myself, as wd/ch in its current state is not unplayable:

    Quote from melodic

    I loved the original idea for this class and I hope our devs can find a solution for the issues they encountered with this aggro-transfer. Until they had the opportunity to give it another shot I am fine with leaving the class as it currently is, which is I reckon a "temporary solution".

    And if you look into the forum, the rework of a whole core mechanic is neccessary (aggro formula) as you can see here.

    Changes should be made to accomodate the class in it's current form. The class is technically playable but why the hell would anybody throw rocks in their own way. Play Ch/K with the same gear and have much better results.

    And once the aggro formula is reworked we may see master of aggro return to what it's supposed to be. For the meantime the class should be made viable because it's skills are really cool. It would be my favorite class if it worked properly.

    Hi,


    Would it be possible to regenerate Nature´s Power with "experimental dwarven ale" and "universal potion", since there are now also classes that do damage with it? (Yes, I know healers also use Nature´s Power. Here I just don´t know how much this affects the play style.) This would be a good addition to improve the flow of the game for these classes.


    Kind regards

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Hi,


    Would it be possible to regenerate Nature´s Power with "experimental dwarven ale" and "universal potion", since there are now also classes that do damage with it? (Yes, I know healers also use Nature´s Power. Here I just don´t know how much this affects the play style.) This would be a good addition to improve the flow of the game for these classes.


    Kind regards

    i'm not sure if this change is needed, becouse as druid you have skill that keep your Nature's Power at max stacks. So even if you are dps you have full Nature Power stacks during almost all your full buff dmg, and then you just simply have to do resourse management by other skills. Every dps class have to do simillar thing. Doing such change in Dwarven ale would be in my feeling not fair from other dd classes where they can't just block usage of their main resource for skills.

    Quote from MidanLauert

    Changes should be made to accomodate the class in it's current form. [...]


    And once the aggro formula is reworked we may see master of aggro return to what it's supposed to be. For the meantime the class should be made viable because it's skills are really cool. It would be my favorite class if it worked properly.

    Class balancing is a process. I do not care about any fastest ways to make something work/playable, but we should look at the bigger picture and follow a certain path towards a set goal. This goal is supposed to be a game in which most classes are most equally viable to play in the end.

    It shouldnt matter if one or more classes are still just borderline playable or even unplayable during this process, as long as we know they are not forgotten about and will be adjusted before the balancing officially is done.

    Putting effort into classes just to make them as viable as others for the time being, only to change them once again at a later point in time means nothing less for the devs than a waste of time and ressources and annoys players with unnecessary changes, prolonging the balancing as a whole.

    While giving feedback in this thread you should not just follow your personal preferences (being able to play the classes you like most asap), but also try to be objective and take the whole process into consideration and if your suggestions will actually make a difference for it in the end. Even if this means that you have to be patient and wait for a little longer until your favourite class is viable.

    Personally, I think healers still need a lot of rework as well, but I understand that the dev-team has limited resources and that healers are not top priority atm, so I am fine with them not being changed for now.


    In case the aggro-transfer gets abandoned for whatever reasons, you still can make further suggestions for this class...Of course this would require a little more effort in communication from the team to let us know, but this generally seems to be a lingering issue...:saint:


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 1

    Mdps druids are so far behind rest of dps that I dont think this would change anything.

    Regards.

    I can't state enough how much I would prefer the aggro transfer method, but in case this method won't become viable I've given it some thought which I expressed here, as literally anyone else does. And I agree that the bigger picture is important - which is why I believe that a viable warden tank would actually make a good addition to the (increasingly) stale tank-market.


    About 90% of tanks you see running around are K/Rs. The rest is split up between /Ch or /D and the occasional champion as well as Zyrex, the madman, tanking as W/K. I've not once seen a Warden Tank in any ROFL run, no, any core run, peroid. That's a real shame. I know quite a few players who would love to play a Wd tank if given the option - and especially with the change of Wd/Ch to be allowed to wear plate armour, the aggro transfer issue wouldn't even come up later down the line.


    The second that skill would work properly the whole dyanmic of the class would shift to a pet focussed tanking experience. Sure it would take some additional work once the skill could actually be implemented (like nerfing pet stat conversion rates) but the class by then would need an overhaul anyway.

    But you expressed your thoughts intending to make changes until other changes are made, not in case they are not made. Thats the difference and that is what I think is the wrong approach, which again is why I expressed these thoughts.


    Just yesterday I tanked two runs as wd/k, which works almost flawless. wd/k has lots of potential for (solo-)survivability which just is not needed in rofl, as heals are mainly unchallenged. This is not the place to discuss in detail why which tank combo is played where and when, but overall tank combos already have their different strenghts and weaknesses and it is only natural, that certain combos perform best in certain instances/situations. If this where not the case, that would mean that tank combos are too similar to each other. That would be a shame.

    At the moment no tank combo I have tested or seen being tested is not able to tank all content, however there surely still has some balancing to be done. Here for me it is the same as with healers: first things first. Endcontent in its current state isnt too well suited to properly evaluate tank performances anyway.

    The main reason though why the majority of players plays the same classes in the end is quite simple: lazyness. Most (not all!!) players are too lazy to test everything for themselves and/or invent their own playstyle so they just look at what other players do and what seems to be working for them, assume its the best and copy it. We have observed this behaviour a couple of times during the last months.

    Quote from MidanLauert

    I know quite a few players who would love to play a Wd tank if given the option - and especially with the change of Wd/Ch to be allowed to wear plate armour, the aggro transfer issue wouldn't even come up later down the line.

    How can you say this if you also say you would want to see the aggro-transfer being a thing later on? Once again you seem to contradict yourself. I already adressed this exact point earlier: seeing it come to this, would be another example of what is a shame.

    Quote from melodic

    If further changes were made to this class now, the need to take another look at its original concept would disappear, which I would not want to happen. :/


    As this discussion starts to seem being pointless for me, I am done with this topic. I believe I have made my concerns clear enough, so lets see what our devs will make of it.:)


    Cheers! :thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 1
    Quote from melodic

    But you expressed your thoughts intending to make changes until other changes are made, not in case they are not made. Thats the difference and that is what I think is the wrong approach, which again is why I expressed these thoughts.

    You're getting in semantics territory here. It doesn't matter whether the class will ever be changed or not; just because changes are made now doesn't shut the door for other changes down the line. It's not happening now and it's not in the list of possible changes, nor do we have word from the developers, therefore it's reasonable to assume it won't happen in the near future, if ever.

    The fact is what we have now: warden tanks (With the exception of Wd/K) don't seem viable at the moment. And it's again a barrier of entry issue. If you need gold gear for a class to be competetive it's not a viable class.

    Quote from melodic
    Quote from MidanLauert

    I know quite a few players who would love to play a Wd tank if given the option - and especially with the change of Wd/Ch to be allowed to wear plate armour, the aggro transfer issue wouldn't even come up later down the line.

    How can you say this if you also say you would want to see the aggro-transfer being a thing later on? Once again you seem to contradict yourself. I already adressed this exact point earlier: seeing it come to this, would be another example of what is a shame.

    It's literally right there. Giving the class plate makes it viable and even good in both scenarios, it even fits the theme of the class. You are being quite disingenuous here. "The aggro transfer issue" is the one we're talking about; whether changes now would destroy the possibility of a fix for the skill coming later down the line, as stated in the paragraph below. Please take what I say into context.


    It quite literally doesn't even make sense why you argue against these proposed changes. Your position is to keep a class in subpar to useless territory for the possibility it might become good later on. We both know that's not a good argument or good balancing, especially since balancing is a process. It's not like this one class will destroy the entire meta and force everyone to build around that class. The changes are small and easily revertable if the need would ever arise and the identity of the class would still be unique enough with all it's abilities intact. If master of aggro ever works properly the playstyle won't change much either, as you need to build defensively for your pets stats anyway. Let's weigh up the pros and cons;

    Pro:
    You get to play a cool class now
    The possible later changes to Master of aggro aren't being denied by the ones proposed

    Con:
    The need to rework the aggro formula gets smaller

    I know those changes would be a bandaid-fix but I would rather have a bandaid than an open wound.



    Have a good one!

    ~Midan

    Quote from deszcz2

    i'm not sure if this change is needed, becouse as druid you have skill that keep your Nature's Power at max stacks. So even if you are dps you have full Nature Power stacks during almost all your full buff dmg, and then you just simply have to do resourse management by other skills. Every dps class have to do simillar thing. Doing such change in Dwarven ale would be in my feeling not fair from other dd classes where they can't just block usage of their main resource for skills.

    Yes, druids have a short-term buff with which they do not lose nature´s power, but most other dds also have buffs (Some even have long-term buffs that permanently restore resources.) or skills with which they can restore their resources and also have dwarven ale or rage cape for example. Many other resources are also restored by themselves or with auto attacks. Personally, I dont see anything exaggerated in the proposal. In addition, druids have no iss for dps (which is okay, but a disadvantage compared to other dds) and the current druid dps classes are far from being too strong. Even with the change, you would still have to do resource management. It is not that I propose to have unlimited nature´s power on a permanent basis.


    But of course that´s just my point of view.


    Kind regards

    hello


    i like playing wl/ch sometimes but sometimes i feel its too slow with its casting ,

    could there be a way to make a cpl skills insta cast ?

    like ruthless judgment insta with 1-2 sec cd, puzzlement with 15 sec cd,

    psychic arrows insta with 2-3 sec cd,

    and maybe buff saces' fury up to 24% from 15%


    thank you

    Quick question regarding the new magical hammer:


    Could you please reconsider the values?


    Small comparison:

    physical dagger https://gyazo.com/b237fdae965793158d4fdaa9568fb093

    vs

    magical dagger https://gyazo.com/503fbddba18b5016399c4e4b1d7eb63f

    -> about 2k mdmg more and only matk, no patk


    physical hammer https://gyazo.com/03b24f8694eb9ce6bd4748c50706ba72

    vs

    magical hammer https://gyazo.com/81f70018f310dfab8971c25c2c59aa2c

    -> only about 400 mdmg more and patk + matk


    It would be nice if the difference between physical and magical hammer were the same proportion as with daggers.


    Kind regards

    Hello, I started having a problem with PATCH NOTES 10.4.0.4010 that came to the game yesterday. Whenever I press W + A + S + D, click the MirrorWorld button and close the button, the character starts to move on its own. To prevent the character from moving to himself, I press the Space Key to make W + A + S + D in the air and start entering the problem. Do you also have such a thing as the characters acting on their own?

    I trully think this was a mistake? Atleast I hope it was, it makes no sense at all.

    S/Wl (in comparison with new warlocks and other mages)


    I played a lot the new warlock dps classes these days and compared them with the current S/Wl. They all are pretty much fun to play (except WlWd which is the easiest class ever imho) but there are huge differences in damage.


    In Burst phases the WlWd dominates over WlS, but SWl is faaaaar away from being competetive to both of them (and any other mage with equal gear). I may suppose, SWl is one of the weaker magical classes right now, especially after the last patches. In AoE burst and sustain the SWl was also not that good compared to other mdps with equal gear. I didn't play dps-druids for a longer time and nobody in my guild plays them, so I can't speak about them.


    Another point is, that your casts are interrupted on attack or moving, while WlS can always cast while moving and is not interrupted on dmg input. WlWd doesn't even cast, that's just insane, this class deserves a nerf definitely, but that's not what I wanna suggest at this point.


    I would suggest to increase the damage of SWl's Elemental Discipline once again, because now it's really bad. The class lacks on penetration power, even on bosses and on sustain damage, even in trash. Elemental Discipline could solve both issues I guess. The latest changes on Venomous Snipe also decreased its dps, especially in burst. Maybe change this not to trigger gcd, so it's possible to use it after the first snipe without loosing too much time/dps.

    Mage/Druid.

    -Now we do not need to cast (unless we use catalysis and we are in boss) which make Elven Mystic useless. Change that cast time for dmg.

    -Earth Pulse. Could you increase its radius to atleast 150? or turn it back how it was so we need a target to use it. Isn't good that some times we lose it cose we aren't close enough and it has 10s cd, so we can't reuse it. At the end this skill hits nothing, is just a buff.

    Implemented magical and healer 1-H Hammer combination to Sealed Magic Weapon item in Realm of Forgotten Legends.


    ...and with that you made 1h healer wands obsolete literally overnight, except for maybe wl/d.

    If you implement new stuff, you should also check and test how it is balanced compared to existing items, because the new 1h healer hammer is effectively stronger in all regards than a 1h wand...

    I doubt that this was actually intended, so please fix - and while you do that, please be careful not to nerv the 1h hammer too much so that it becomes weaker than other options. :rolleyes:


    Cheers!:wacko:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 5

    Mage/Druid

    • Changed Control Flame to modify Flame additionally to have 1 second of cooldown but makes it instantly casted.

    Very good qualitiy of life change.

    Instances

    • Added physical attack, attack speed and bad luck aura to Nayat, Siddartha and Krishna in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode.
    • Changed Khat in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode to electrify everyone in room if someone gets caught by a small lightning.
    • Added entrance cooldown debuff to Jerath event in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode that lasts for 180 seconds. Jerath now gains 8% physical attack every time a player participates in the event, and gains 8% physical damage every time a selected player refuse to participate. Every creature killed will inflict 2% damage to the tactic object.
    • Changed Balton to re-apply poison every 3 seconds instead of 5 in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode.
    • Added Earth Core Fragment to Realm of Forgotten Legends Normal Mode last boss. (3 Earth Core Fragment provides 1 Earth Core when used.)

    I also would suggest, that you start to implement these changes.

    But not all at once.

    For example, start with:

    • Added entrance cooldown debuff to Jerath event in Realm of Forgotten Legends Hard Mode that lasts for 180 seconds. Jerath now gains 8% physical attack every time a player participates in the event, and gains 8% physical damage every time a selected player refuse to participate. Every creature killed will inflict 2% damage to the tactic object.

    And let's collect the feedback



    Mage/Druid

    • Changed Control Flame to modify Flame additionally to have 1 second of cooldown but makes it instantly casted.

    Thank you for this change.

    I suggest Plasma Arrow is also an instant skill with a 5 - 9 second cooldown.


    Regards


    Hi,


    Is it possible to change Strike of Punishment for every knight class like:

    • Changed Strike of Punishment to inflict 1200% main hand weapon DPS dark damage instead of raw physical dark damage.

    ? And switch the element damage to light or adapt it to the class combination?


    Kind regards

    I like this idea too

    beside plasma arrow change i would suggest to make static field not depend on previous buffs like now and and we could directly use it. The amount of time we spend doing those previous buffs is insane compared to other classes, in most places mobs are already gone specially vs some pdps.

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from MDNCITAJ

    I like this idea too

    beside plasma arrow change i would suggest to make static field not depend on previous buffs like now and and we could directly use it. The amount of time we spend doing those previous buffs is insane compared to other classes, in most places mobs are already gone specially vs some pdps.

    I don't know, sounds like a little bit too much quality of life :)

    Hi,

    I want to suggest a balance for warden classes. Increase Power of the Wood Spirit damage to 542% from 434.4%
    For the elite of warden/rogue, let it increase the damage of Power of the Wood Spirit to 630% from 564%, but reduce the physical crit damage gain of the elite 40 to 45% from 60%.

    Also the ISS Beast punishment (850154) is way too bad with 330% so he works just as gapfiller because u dont have anything else^^, wich i would recommend to buff it to 530% or atleast 430%

    Greetings

    About Warden:


    I noticed recently that the Pet from (in this case) Warden/Warlock does alot more damage in Rofl than before.

    And I was a little bit surprised since it did not appear in one of the latest patchnotes.


    Did you noticed it too, because i did not play warden for some weeks now

    I tested it now. I don't see a difference between Oakwalker that much^^

    Could u maybe give more details about it ?

    Greetings