Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    ~1,7kk p-attack with hot stew. Damage don't know. t12 weapon. you see the average damage of all skills. no other rogue have such high hits. Wraith Attack for example sustained damage without buffs ~2kk in trash. Power of the Wood Spirit of r/warden do only ~700-800k with my t15 dagger.

    You see. I don't have double or tripple p-attack of others and with t12 weapon I have even way lower p-dmg.

    My suggestion was to reduce damage of substitute while having 100% trigger chance. But that will be only 1 skill to be changed for balanced. Wraith attack should also be reduce to maximum 500% dps compared to Power of the Wood Spirit

    Bugs report on wl/k


    -If i deactivate Self-Distortion ISS, Willpower Construct is going into 9s cd.

    -Defense Net isn't always working. If I use it while fighting rofl spiders, skill go on cd and do nothing, no black screen and no fear protection.


    Edit:

    -Wl: Ruthless judgment (in spanish) still have old description, saying it gives buff when target have low hp.


    https://gyazo.com/882dbea9c0953c3bb3e371834d73a35d

    • Official Post
    Quote from Marcellos
    Quote from Madox
    • Implemented magical and healer 1-H Hammer combination to Sealed Magic Weapon item in Realm of Forgotten Legends.

    Thank you so much :love:

    In that case, I will also ask for a magic bow (yes, I know there is a crossbow, but the bow would be better for a mage / scout) ;)


    Greetings

    We do not plan to implement magical bow into game for current instance content. (There is no magical bow in custom content at all while magical hammer isn't something new in it.)


    Greetings

    Quote from xLutinex

    Regarding latest changes of rogue/scout:


    • Changed Blood Poison to modify Blood Arrow to increase physical damage instead of melee/ranged damage, by 51.8%.
    • Changed Substitute to inflict Shot damage with 100% chance instead of 60%.
    • Changed Wraith Attack to have 6% lower damage for each extra target.
    • Changed Fast Draw to do not be interrupted while moving.
    • Reduced Precision focus cost to 50 from 100, changed it to make Fast Draw recover 10 focus upon landing successful attack additionally.
    • Reduced Shadow Figure ranged attack speed gain to 10% from 20%.


    I guess it is the wrong way, if this changes are the intention of buffing the class furthermore. The class was still the strongest and after the patch now, it is even stronger :/

    First i think thiese changes are good ,its more better energy-focsu consuming even if its dmg again nerfed its ok . Second you cant compare only whit other rouges , because its always one combo who is stronger then others ,and R/S was weakest rouge for a long time . You need to compare to other classes whit similar gear , and i think its now close to some other top combos , but still weaker then some .

    Quote from Himen
    Quote from xLutinex

    Regarding latest changes of rogue/scout:


    • Changed Blood Poison to modify Blood Arrow to increase physical damage instead of melee/ranged damage, by 51.8%.
    • Changed Substitute to inflict Shot damage with 100% chance instead of 60%.
    • Changed Wraith Attack to have 6% lower damage for each extra target.
    • Changed Fast Draw to do not be interrupted while moving.
    • Reduced Precision focus cost to 50 from 100, changed it to make Fast Draw recover 10 focus upon landing successful attack additionally.
    • Reduced Shadow Figure ranged attack speed gain to 10% from 20%.


    I guess it is the wrong way, if this changes are the intention of buffing the class furthermore. The class was still the strongest and after the patch now, it is even stronger :/

    First i think thiese changes are good ,its more better energy-focsu consuming even if its dmg again nerfed its ok . Second you cant compare only whit other rouges , because its always one combo who is stronger then others ,and R/S was weakest rouge for a long time . You need to compare to other classes whit similar gear , and i think its now close to some other top combos , but still weaker then some .

    dmg was nerfed?

    You should learn what "Changed Blood Poison to modify Blood Arrow to increase physical damage instead of melee/ranged damage, by 51.8%." in this sentence "Physical damage" means for dps classes instead of "damage" what it was before.

    Anyway, the next patch will balance the class more. The classes should be balanced within all secondary classes. Why should you compare one rogue class with other classses? balancing all classes for every secondary class and then you can balance between different main classes.


    (Yes, there are still rogues who cannot compete with r/s or r/w now. For example r/wrd, but thats kinda "ok".)

    Lool i dont need to know any of that i can see whit my eyes what is diffrence , and thx a lot for new nerf realy... And you even got nerf for s/d and it was now closer to other scouts , so why you asked for nerf , its not much but still why ?

    Quote from Himen

    Lool i dont need to know any of that i can see whit my eyes what is diffrence , and thx a lot for new nerf realy... And you even got nerf for s/d and it was now closer to other scouts , so why you asked for nerf , its not much but still why ?

    First: If you see it with your eyes: 51.8% physical damage is more than 62.8% damage like it was before. just saying.

    Second: S/D is OP too. It is nearly at the same level like r/s is current. I don't know what you mean with "s/d is closer to other scouts". S/D is like 1.2 - 1.5 stronger than other scouts (except s/ch, which is strong as s/d atm)

    Bitte prüfen Sie ob die Änderung am Boiling Blood von 24% auf 16% gleich so stark sein muss. Ich würde vorschlagen den Skill vorerst auf 20% abzusenken und dies einige Zeit zu beobachten um dann gegebenenfalls Änderung vorzunehmen.

    Ein Vorschlag wäre auch den Schaden vom Platzregen im Orkan von 250% Testweise auf 300% zu erhöhen.

    Damit wäre der Kundschafter/Druide dann eigentlich gut ausbalanciert.


    Please check whether the change in the boiling blood from 24% to 16% must be equally strong. I would suggest lowering the skill to 20% for the time being and this

    Observe for some time and then make changes if necessary.

    One suggestion would also be to increase the damage from the downpour in the hurricane from 250% on a test basis to 300%.

    With that the scout / druid would actually be well balanced.


    Servus Pistan


    Ich kann dir da leider nicht zustimmen, der Kundi/druide ist mit MEILEN weiten ABSTANDT der beste Kundi aktuell und Verdient in meinen Augen einen nerf. Und ich finde der Aktuelle nerf ist Total Gerechtfertigt. Deshalb sieht man auch Random nur noch Kundi/druiden, weil die Klasse viel zu Stark im Moment ist. ;)

    &


    I disagree,


    Scout/druid was too strong before the nerf and is still one of the top classes currently,

    Moreover, increasing the damage of Hurricane - Downpour would push Scouts already - substantial burst & AoE over the top, especially for Scout/champion.


    Greetings! :)

    Wanna get better ? Just play leather ツ

    Like 11

    Hi.

    The Wd/Ch is brutally useless due to the class being originially balanced around transferring aggro to one's pet. Would it be possible to allow the class to simply wear plate armour but reduce it's extra defenses (From 93,6% def to about 60% would suffice)? Otherwise the class isn't really playable.

    Also: The extra pet you get has double the summon time of the other, standard warden pets.

    Thank you

    ~ Midan

    Code
    Can you explain in more detail? I don't like the behavior of the pet, but overall Wd / Ch is playable for me.

    The class was originally designed to be played to have their aggro put down onto the pet. That means that one may actually tank with chain gear which would be possible with high investment. You don't gather enough parry rate and life that way, also the physical attack is useless on a tank as you reduce it yourself anyway.


    The class needs it's defensive capabilities nerfed but allowed to wear plate - then the class would actually be really cool.

    Quote from MidanLauert
    Quote from Kentt
    Code
    Can you explain in more detail? I don't like the behavior of the pet, but overall Wd / Ch is playable for me.

    The class was originally designed to be played to have their aggro put down onto the pet. That means that one may actually tank with chain gear which would be possible with high investment. You don't gather enough parry rate and life that way, also the physical attack is useless on a tank as you reduce it yourself anyway.


    The class needs it's defensive capabilities nerfed but allowed to wear plate - then the class would actually be really cool.


    I don't know if the calculation is correct, but I have jewelry for a tank, plus a pet (gives 40% parry) - a total of 82% parry rate.


    Quote from Kentt
    Quote from MidanLauert

    The class was originally designed to be played to have their aggro put down onto the pet. That means that one may actually tank with chain gear which would be possible with high investment. You don't gather enough parry rate and life that way, also the physical attack is useless on a tank as you reduce it yourself anyway.


    The class needs it's defensive capabilities nerfed but allowed to wear plate - then the class would actually be really cool.


    I don't know if the calculation is correct, but I have jewelry for a tank, plus a pet (gives 40% parry) - a total of 82% parry rate.

    Yup. It's still about 9% more damage taken than most other tanks that quite easily reach max parry rate. And, 1.2 million def is not enough at all. You need specialized chain gear that has loads of useless stats for you. That's my point

    Quote from MidanLauert

    Yup. It's still about 9% more damage taken than most other tanks that quite easily reach max parry rate. And, 1.2 million def is not enough at all. You need specialized chain gear that has loads of useless stats for you. That's my point

    Can you clarify this a little more? What do you mean with "9% more dmg taken"?

    Your statement that "most tanks quite easily reach max parry rate" is more than a slight exaggeration, hopefully you and our devs know that, so saying stuff like that does not really serve the goal we all try to achieve here.

    Also in my t11 gorge chain gear which does not even have sta/str on every piece I have more pdef with only the pet summoned (which is the sole buff that is supposed to close the gap to plate gear for this class) than unbuffed in my current plate tank gear, which is uncomparably stronger. Self-buffed I get to 3kk+ pdef on this class, which is roughly the same amount as I had in my old gorge plate gear as Knight, which overall was one tier higher. The only reason Wardens dont have as much pdef as Knights anymore is the nerv of Briar Shield.


    Yes, you do not get the same pdef+hp(+parry) values from full dps gear with this class as a plate wearing class, but why should you. Being able to tank everything in dps chain gear just as good as in tank plate gear would devalue plate gear even more and make chain gear even more superior to all other types of gear. This is not the purpose of balancing.


    I loved the original idea for this class and I hope our devs can find a solution for the issues they encountered with this aggro-transfer. Until they had the opportunity to give it another shot I am fine with leaving the class as it currently is, which is I reckon a "temporary solution".

    And in the end: If you want to play Warden in plate gear, play wd/k or wd/w, I dont think we need a third option for diversity.


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 6

    You are right. Hyperbaly doesn't really help this. I should have been more concise.


    What I am meaning to say is that the barrier of entry for a warden-chain-tank is too high and the tradeoff between having those offensive stats where defensive ones could take the place is just not worth it. The investment is extreme (8-9 new pieces of gear) for a mediocore outcome. One could just play a champion and be able to tank in damage gear without having specialized equipment.


    The class has a really, really cool concept - and as long as the aggro transfer doesn't work or isn't implemented, this barrier of entry will make the class very impractial to play.

    The issue with having chain equipment specifially for tanks is that on most tanks, physical attack is borderline useless as you mostly run on minimal damage anyway. In rare cases you get over that threshold but you're still nowhere near a Damagedealer. Sure the crit is nice; but havnig many of your nonstats to be recuded in effectivity like that is just something that doesn't fit into the metagame at all - and it's not like you'd need the boost in aggro either.


    I also agree that Chain tanks devalue plate armour significantly. Being able to tank with barely anything changed is bad for the economy of the game. This is why classes that want to play as tank should be able and partially even forced to wear plate armour IMO.

    That being said,
    I would change the following:


    Either:

    490bf3898f.png Level 40 Eliteskill, ID 1490524

    -> Reduce it's defense gain to 70% but allow the class to equip plate armour.


    Or:


    46f223366d.pngLevel 20 Eliteskill, ID: 1490520

    -> Reduce pAtk further, by 50%. Let this pet gain bonus HP for Strength.


    7991537a57.png Level 25 Eliteskill, ID 1490521

    -> Reduce it's amount to 3% per second for either. Increase the overall uptime by either reducing the CD or increasing it's uptime.


    01a42dd20f.png Level 45 Eliteskill, ID 1490525

    -> Make this instead modify the damage transfer ability (ID 493399) to turn it into a toggle.

    I understand the issue you are having, but:

    Quote from MidanLauert

    The investment is extreme (8-9 new pieces of gear) for a mediocore outcome. One could just play a champion and be able to tank in damage gear without having specialized equipment.

    Quote from MidanLauert

    This is why classes that want to play as tank should be able and partially even forced to wear plate armour IMO.

    ...statements like these dont go with each other. If you want to force tanks to wear (partially) plate, whats wrong with wearing tanky accessory, wings, offhands etc? There it does not even matter if you already own that sort of gear or if you have to build new pieces, as you can use them on any class the same.


    In my opinion noone should be forced to build tanky chain gear, if chain classes are designed to be a tank, they should be able to tank in their dps chain gear, maybe having additional accessory/wings etc as a bonus. The drawback however should be a less powerful tank in terms of sustainability/aggro/support than plate tanks provide.

    That being said I can only repeat myself, as wd/ch in its current state is not unplayable:

    Quote from melodic

    I loved the original idea for this class and I hope our devs can find a solution for the issues they encountered with this aggro-transfer. Until they had the opportunity to give it another shot I am fine with leaving the class as it currently is, which is I reckon a "temporary solution".

    If further changes were made to this class now, the need to take another look at its original concept would disappear, which I would not want to happen.:/


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 3