Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    I tested a bit at balton dummies and I guess, the nerf of blood Arrow from ~200% p-dmg to 62,2% damage (yes, yesterday it was ~200% p-dmg boost) was too much in combination with:


    - Reduced Shadow Figure ranged speed increment to 20% from 40%.

    - Changed Substitute to trigger Shot with 60% chance instead of 100%.


    For a first change the shadow figure should increase ranged speed again by 40%.Btw Wraith Attack still have no decrement like Power of the Wood SpiritMaybe I can test the class tomorrow in instance.


    Kind regards

    Druid/Rogue

    • Changed Speed Catalysis to Sinister Request; Immediately recovers maximum MP, rage, focus, energy, Psi and Nature’s Power for party members within 80 radius. Cooldown Time: 30 seconds.

    Bug report, It's not giving any psi.

    Hi! I play healing classes for a very long time and i see huge difference in healing quality between druids and priests. Druid has more potential to heal all raid because of his HoTs and the most important skill Mother Earth's Fountain. With that possibilities you can heal every dungeon solo easily. In the past Priest was the most powerful healing class because of his Group Heal but now it's the most useless skill on Priest which has too long cast time, too much heal (that is useless when you can heal only 6 ppl in 120 radius), too short range and too few ppl it heals. If we want to make a good balance between healers we should give Priest something that makes him as strong as Druid is and i don't talk about stronger patk/matk buff. I have an idea that based on Group Heal. I mean:

    - reduce cast time to 1 seconds which makes healers' reaction time more efficiency,

    - increase it's healing from group to raid,

    - increase it's radius to 200 from 120 (that let the healers heal that fuckin' tank which always run away with mobs from the healer while casting healing spells),

    - obviously reduce it's healing maybe half for the begin (if Group Heal would heal still too much just reduce it's healing a little bit more),

    - increase it's cooldown time to 4 seconds (the same time as Fountain has),

    - remove mana cost debuff.

    It's not so much but it would change so much in good balance between healers.


    Thamks!

    • Official Post
    Quote from xLutinex

    (yes, yesterday it was ~200% p-dmg boost)

    It had 72.5% physical damage yesterday, you weren't seeing it in character frame, but your damage output was being depending on that. The change is 72.5% physical damage -> 62.2% melee + ranged damage.

    Quote from mistika

    This change has not been implemented?

    Almost every heal spell is already light heal, so we do not plan to change the description for all.


    Greetings

    ok sorry. If it is like that, I'll test it hopefully tomorrow. Guess it is fine now then. Was kinda strange on balton-dummy :/

    W/K


    I just played the Warrior/Knight again and the new change of Surprise Attack is working pretty well. <3


    The only thing that could be improved is the range of the AoEs. 60 as a max range is a bit too less for a tank. In some situations you need at least 80 on at least one skill imo. If that's Surprise Attack or Whirlwind doesn't matter I guess, but the class definitely needs more range on AoE aggro (our warlocks and M/R would be grateful).

    I am practicly against all changes listed there.


    1. 3sec base castspeed is one of the upsides of Group Heal, if you are too slow, just use some buffs for castspeed, it is quite easy to get below 1sec casttime, making it effectively even faster than mother earths fountain.

    2. Might be an option, however not at this point and not without further extensive rework of priest combinations. I dont like priests and druids to be too similar.

    3. Just no. I testet wl/d just yesterday and must say having 200 range AoE heal is just way too strong. If your tanks run too far away from your heals, either work on your own positioning or let them die so that they can learn not to run away. Anyway thats an issue that needs to be solved by changing your playstyle, not adjusting skills.

    4. Along with all heals it for sure still heals too much, but compared to other healing skills I think it is fine.

    5. same as 2., please dont change this skill to be fountain v2.0 .

    6. I dont really like the debuff either, but there needs to be something that prevents priests from spamming only Group Heal all day long (like in the old days, lol) without removing the room for flexibility you still have with this skill+debuff. I couldnt think of any better solution for that and adding a fixed cooldown to this skill would kill the flexibility you have as a priest.


    All in all priests and druids should not be too similar in my opinion. Priests always were stronger in healing and protecting individual targets and druids were always stronger in healing the raid alltogether, which does not necessarily make a druid superior to a priest.

    The problem is that the performance of healers is heavily dependent on what content you are in and that currently compared to the possible healing output there is way too low dmg input for raids in the game so without having properly hard endcontent, balancing healers is even more pointless than balancing tanks.

    That druids are able to solo-heal a full rofl raid only is possible because healing the raid alltogether is enough and there is no need to heal individual targets....and that you do not get cc'ed in rofl, unlike in gorge for example.


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Edited once, last by melodic: fixed Heal Party to Group Heal :D ().

    Like 3

    1. 3 seconds cast time is good if you can spam this skill but nobody wants it to be spammable. Nothing will be faster than Fountain because Fountain has no cast time.

    2. Priests and Druids will never be too similar. Druid has tons of HoTs and Priest has Urgent that can compete with HoTs but any Priest's skill can't compete with Fountain and that makes Priest much worse.

    3. I tested wl/d too and i don't think 200 range on GH which you can cast only from your character is too strong. If you play as healer you shouldn't risk your life to get closer to mobs and melee DPSs and that's why most healing skills has 250 range. Fountain can heal someone which is 300 range further from healer soo.

    4. Healers heals too much, tanks are too much tanky and dps deals too much dmg. Everybody knows that. Compared to other skills it's the most useless skill that nobody uses and that's why ppl prefer to go on classes that have another AoE healing skills like Chain of Life, Healing Void or Curing Shot.

    5. Just change this skill because these days there is no point to keep Priest as individual targets healer. Even wd/p and wl/d got better AoE healing skills.

    6. What flexibility are you talking about with that oldschool GH?


    Of course it's all about the content which make Druids good in every hard situation. It's easier to change one skill to make Priests as good as Druid is than change all content. Even on gorge Druid works better because of AoE healing skills and HoTs. If Priest doesn't have his patk buff i wouldn't play on it so often. I could go wd/p or wl/d for example.


    Thamks!

    Up to a certain point Group Heal is spammable and in case you need to heal huge amounts (yeah, currently you dont) you can get your castspeed down to 0.5 and as fountain has a gcd of 1 second, you effectively are faster and able to heal more in a certain amount of time. Yes your first heal in such cases will be 0.5 sec later, but your next heal will be 0.5 sec earlier and in situations where you can anticipate incoming dmg, the cast time of 0.5 sec or more isnt even any delay, since you can just start casting earlier. This is the flexibility I was talking about. Fountain itself has zero flexibility in such cases.


    This example should show that Group Heal is in no way inferior to fountain, it just works differently thus having different pros and cons. This example should also show how far away we currently are from maxing out the actual healing potential of healers.

    Just because there are overpowered skills like Curing Shot you dont need to buff all other skills that actually work fine, just nerf Curing Shot.

    Positioning is situational just as almost everything else about healers and if you decide to stand next to your tanks and melee dps or at 250 range to only spam urgent should depend on even that situation. Making good decisions in positioning based on what situations you and your raid are in is one important aspect of being a capable healer. Furthermore is standing next to mobs not risking your life if you yourself are tanky enough.

    Having 220k+ wis and healing 1kk+ with urgent but not enough hp+def to sustain dmg and not being able to react properly to certain situations or even dying does not help your raid that much. It just makes you unreliable as a heal in situations that went out of hand and where your raid actually needs to rely on you.

    Of course these are choices every healer has to make for themselves, depending on their preferred playstyle.


    Druids are not better than priests in "hard" situations, they are better in "easy" situations and the game simply lacks hard situations. As long as fountain+hots is remotely enough to heal incoming dmg you are still in very easy situations, as you could heal with an alt+makro just as good as you yourself.

    And believe me, in gorge priests are far superior to druids if you are pushing the limits. If your raid is too strong anyway, it is easy game for druids again.


    Imagine heals not healing way too much and fighting against Balton and Jerath or b1(+0def-debuff) at the same time. At first you would want to have a druid to heal the dmg on the raid from Balton and you would want to have a priest to heal the tank additionly. You should have noticed that priests do a better job than druids at healing tanks at b1 and b3, where they actually take some dmg.

    Now imagine this fight takes more than 30 seconds and the DoT from Balton surpasses the heal you can do with your fountain(+hots) every 4 seconds. Then you might want to have a priest in each party that is able to start spamming Group Heal instead of spamming a mere fountain v2.0 .


    For sure it is easier to adjust classes so that they suit the current content best and that they all work as good as any other for it, but this would destroy this games diversity in classes, as each class would be good in the same situations.

    However this would result in the next content being very similar to the current one and/or the entire process of redesigning classes starting anew.

    I doubt that the majority of players would want that to happen. ;)


    I fear I already drifted a little too far from actual feedback to explain my point of view, thats why this will be it from me concerning Group Heal. I just hope it stays untouched for now.

    As I said, I think the team should focus on dps classes first.


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Edited once, last by melodic: fixed Heal Party to Group Heal :D ().

    Like 1

    1. and 2. There are not situations like that maybe only on Balton it could looks like that if he won't be killed in 20s - 30s. Still Druid could heal everyone because of amount of HoTs. If HoTs can heal all dpss or keeping them alive to reset your Fountain cd you can focus your Recover on tank and everything will be ok. GH still doesn't make Priest flexibility because in situations you talking about Priest can choose Scout or Druid for subclass and then Priest still doesn't have to help his Druid by GH, Curing Shot or Healing Void will be enough and there is no point to use GH.


    3. Again about positioning... maybe they nerfed stamina healers to avoid making offtank healers or just tanky healers and that's why they give healers like wl/d 200 range on AoE heal to stay far away from mobs, anyway you can stay in mobs on that class using Whisper and Mind Barrier. This is the point why GH should be adjusted to Chronicles of Arcadia, it's no longer Runes of Magic where you could keep everything on full stamina Priests. They should nerf profits from giving healers stamina even more and make full wisdom healers as a requirement to heal. Healing Void - 100 range but you can run away after casting that spell, Chain of Life - range 200 from healing, Regenerate - range 200 so it seems like they don't want healers to come close to mobs in any situation, healer should stay away from them. It simple to go tanky healer and stay wherever you want but it probably isn't something what developers want to achieve. I think they want healers to be more carefully in CoA than in RoM.


    4. Of course you can't see hard situations when your dpss kill mobs instantly. We often take dpss with low equipment and then mobs before and after 3rd boss put really strong dots on most of our players. It is just the hard situation when Druid can heal it solo easily and Priest not. I see you want to make Druids only AoE healers and Priest single target healers. Maybe they should remove single target healing skills from Druid and AoE healing skills from Priest/S/D to make great balance for you. I don't think it would be bad but giving new healing classes with good AoE healing skills doesn't mean team want the same.


    5. HoTs and Fountain on raid and Recover on tank additionally. It's simple for Druid but not for Priest. You started talking about situations that won't happen at this moment and it's not seems to be in the nearest future. Even in this situation i prefer GH from my idea to using Fountain and GH on turns with Druid.


    6. Of course it's easier and better to adjust all healing classes to be similarly strong in every situations but in other mechanics. Druid has slow cast but he has HoTs and Priest has fast cast. At this moment Druid has slow cast, HoTs and great AoE healing skill and Priest has only his fast cast and no good AoE healing skills. Spamming GH isn't flexible it's quite unskilled than using it in right time every 4 seconds on turns with Druid like i said.


    No, the team shouldn't focus only on dps because they started to make druid more as dps and less as a healer. There is enough dps combinations to work on and if they nerf something they nerf it too much and that's why they work on it so long. Small steps are better in this part of class balance. Please stop joking, they changed most elite skills to revive R/S but they couldn't change one skill on Priest to make him as good as Druid is? I hope they will change GH because it would make other Priest's combinations more viable.


    Thamks!

    Quote from mrugal82

    1. and 2. There are not situations like that maybe only on Balton it could looks like that if he won't be killed in 20s - 30s. Still Druid could heal everyone because of amount of HoTs. If HoTs can heal all dpss or keeping them alive to reset your Fountain cd you can focus your Recover on tank and everything will be ok. GH still doesn't make Priest flexibility because in situations you talking about Priest can choose Scout or Druid for subclass and then Priest still doesn't have to help his Druid by GH, Curing Shot or Healing Void will be enough and there is no point to use GH.



    Thamks!

    just for clarifying. You are talking about druids raid HoTs. So only D/P and D/S, but complaining Priest can only choose between 2 subclasses for that situations?

    Druids in general (without subclass scout or Priest) does not have any better HoT than any priest class

    this has probably been discussed, but in upcoming patches i would like to see titles and title buffs with posion dmg..

    that can happen by new world boss or ini.

    also would like to see a talis with just dmg on it not just (fire,dark,earth,) but helps with all elemental dmg.


    cheers lol

    D/M has another raid HoT, D/W has second AoE healing skill, D/Wd has healing Briar Shield, D/K has 2 additional AoE healing skills like Shield of Discipline and Punishment, D/Ch has Essence of Vitality which is his second AoE healing skill so still Druid has more potential to heal all raid easily, even without raid HoTs (but HoT from Recover still helps a lot). Nobody wants RoMv2.0. so Priest should get AoE healing skill to protect him from being only physical dps for patk/matk buff with 2 Druids in pt. Vision with synergy Priest and Druid is beautiful but everybody knows how it ended on global. Only D/W or D/Wd was needed and in hard situations ppl took second Druid.

    Greetings,
    I am against the group heal changes too.
    Priests where always better in single target heal and for me personally the better group heal than Druids. Yes, Druids are better for raid heal in most situations of the current content but in my opinion thats just because in the current content you don't need that much healing and heals are not even close to beeing pushed at their limits. Group heal is a very good skill to heal your group fast - like Melodic said you can or will be even more effective with group heal than with the Druid Fountain in certain situations that will, hopefully, follow in upcoming patches and new content.
    I also agree with Melodic saying that having lots of Wisdom but no health or defense to stay alive in certain situations you are as helpful to your raid as a twink just running after.


    I personally think, if they would change a skill, that every priest class has, to a raid heal so that he can heal raids as good as a Druid makes me nervous about the next content that will follow. Currently in Rofl you don't need this much single target heal a Priest can achieve with the current max. gear and is nowhere near beeing pushed at the limit.
    What makes me nervous is getting the group heal changed and when next content follows and the Priest will be superior in both single target and raid heal, people will be mad and want a push for the Druid or nerf for the Priest which will bring the balancing never to an end.

    If you want another Priest combination with raid heal, you could take a look at the Priest/Warlock.
    Currently on this class you have 2, in my opinion, good raid heal skills:

    1. "Touch of Revival" with that you can heal raid members in a fan shape area in front of you. But the fan shape area is a bit tricky and you need some time to ajust your position in right way to heal you raid.

    2. "Spirit Embodiment" with that you heal for the next 30 seconds with *every* heal-skill you do the raid member with the least hp for a certain amount. With that you can heal your raid very fast up to the top because as priest you can get most or maybe every skill to 0,5 second cast.


    I have to say - these skills have at the current time a description error that both skills are saying "party members" but they definetly heal raid member - I tested it. Maybe this is something the Dev-team could look at to fix the current description to erase any confusion.

    Unfortunately the Priest/Warlock has still a current bug with "Life Surge" ID:499829. It heals your raid fine but no one of the raid except you get the 10% attribute buff. It would be very nice to get this fixed too.

    Overall I hope you unterstand my opinion to not change group heal and maybe Priest/Warlock will be a new fun class for you ;)

    Kind Regards Nghty

    Quote from Nghty

    1. "Touch of Revival" with that you can heal raid members in a fan shape area in front of you. But the fan shape area is a bit tricky and you need some time to ajust your position in right way to heal you raid.

    Great skill indeed, it is however suffering from this issue I reported ages ago in this thread, which has not been adressed since:

    Quote from melodic

    priest/warlock

    lv20 elite healing effect is reduced by about half with each target hit, resulting in very inconsitent heals and the most distant target (mostly tanks) being healed by almost nothing.

    As I hope this is not intentional: Please fix! :)


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 2

    If you will need more healing for maybe next content there is a better way just take another Druid which can help in healing all raid and tank. Single target healing and GH was best in 6ppl dungeons but not now. Priest was the best as long as dungeons were only for 6ppl. Keeping GH only for 6ppl and with that range is pointless for this content and probably for next content when dungeons are for 12ppl. You says that Group Heal is very good skill so why ppl taking Scout or Druid on subclass? To use Group Heal or have better AoE healing skill?

    I don't agree with Melodic with hp and defense on healers. Dpss and tanks making items with 6 similar stats so making healers tankier isn't intended by Team as we can see how they nerfed that and i agree with it. Btw they should also increase patk from dex for Scouts and Rogues and reduce patk from Strenght.


    Making Priests as good as Druid is a bad think because it makes you nervous? Ok. You don't need single target healing on RoFL? What about Jerath? And still Druid can heal it easily because he has Recover and Fountain but Recover is enough. When next content follows with that change Priest will be as good as Druid is so every class combo you will chose will be good option. Druid won't be worse with that change. Class balance will never end just take a look on dps balance: M/D - dead, M/K - dead, Wl/Ch - also dead and there is more dead class which has been killed during class balance. Class balance now looks like in League of Legends for example.


    You want me to understand why Group Heal is great skill but in the end you encourage me to play class with another AoE healing skill. I played this class and it's pretty good but after 30s of Spirit Embodiment you're lack of AoE healing. Maybe change Touch of Revival for 4s cooldown and 10 focus cost but you guys also say that Team should focus on dps classes. Change Group Heal would be the best and the fastest option to make Priest as strong as Druid. Healing isn't funny when your healing possibilities dissapear after 30s. Druid is still much easier and better to play than Priest and it will be without changes.


    Thamks!

    Hi after reading a lot of posts coming from certain persons i have to say that some people don't really want to have all balanced classes. They just want a few to be good and the other to be weak and it's just not what is called balancing. I thought that starting to do balance was about making all classes worth playing equally and it just not look like that at the moment because people that are responsible for making changes are listening to just a few people and are not listening the others. Please just stop doing everything that people are saying on this forum and try to test more, certain combinations by yourself, cause it's just frustrating and in the end we will have the same situation as on the global server where it was worth playing only few combinations and others were left alone because going on other class was just delaying instances etc.


    PS. It's not an attack or anything, and thank you for making so many combinations but i just really want this balance to end and all combinations you gave us worth playing

    Hi,

    With healers, i really hope they not will make priest just another druids.

    I rather have that priests are needed and that druids are also needed.

    It's just with current content 1 druid can solo heal most situations and have their de-buffing seeds to give additional support.

    Priest have some nice damage mitigation skills (some druids too) but with most content those skills aren't really needed.

    If casting speed buffs didn't exist, priest would be your number one choice for reactive (single target) healing... but that was 10 years ago.. ;)

    imho it just would be great if priest have some more toolkit that was also really needed with the end game content.

    Think of skills like damage mitigation for raid, damage immune for raid, stun immune for raid, fear immune for raid, awesome utilities like the dr/ch has.


    Because what would be more great (regarding healers) then that we can keep both our druids and priest because they are required to do the latest content..?


    ps. @Devs thanks for the awesome job you do at the balancing, we all know it's a long path with multiple iterations, but it's really cool to see you listen and interact with the feedback of the community.

    So you want to make Priest another support. It's good to know that Druid should be the one right healer. Priest will never be another Druid. Do you really think any healing class that has AoE healing skill is another Druid? Let's remove Healing Void, Chain of Life and Curing shot from Priest's kit. Priest didn't die yet because he has patk/matk buff. Many classes have damage mitigation skills and what skills on Priest are you talking about? Wave Armor, Divine Shield or Blessing of Rebirth? Some Druids have damage mitigation skill? Druid without subclass has 40% damage mitigation skill while Priest has Wave Armor. Compare it. Druid/Champion has another AoE healing skill too (Essence of Vitality).


    There is gonna be the same situation like in RoM. Druid is required to be in pt as a best healer and Priest as an addition. So it will be still better to take another Druid and Priest/Warrior as a supporting dps. Group Heal needs change and you can't deny it.


    Thamks!

    Strange. if we have a priest and druid in group, the priest heals an equal amount like our druid or even higher. (with equal gear)


    Remove Mother Earth Fountain from druid and this class would be "dead", because nobody would play it anymore: change my mind

    Strange, while i go as a Druid i heal much more because Fountain is faster than Urgent or Curing shot so i can heal the others before Priest cast one Urgent.


    That discussion is not about removing Fountain. Remove patk/matk buff from Priest and this class will be dead. Change my mind.


    I can change your mind easily. Druid/Warlock as a dps and now they working on Druid/Rogue and Druid/Mage. Even Druid/Warrior would be alive.