"Ah yes that was a fail from my Part sorry, i just talked to some m/r and the burst is indeed better then Champs"
Thank you, I appreciate honest response, since m/r in my runs clearly does more on burst versus champ; same with aoes m/r does more than champ, but champ does better as sustain, which is what balance should be about - not have one class which is better in all.
"I personally find it sad that the Champion is still so overpowered (from an Overal Scruti Perspective) and is still obliterating Trashmobs in every Custom Instance . And it was not made better that now are 3 (from what i have seen so far) Champion combinations that strong."
Please note at least one champ I know you talking about is an incredibly good player, and has 4 gold pieces and t18 hammer, while last I checked you did not upgrade your gear except bow, new golden gear is incredibly strong.
Second, I run with mages who do more aoe damage than champ, why this obsession with champs, I am so tired of it. Champ atm is a good sustained class, not tanky like before, not op burst, not op aoe.
Third, burst damage again atm at least I see r/wl and m/r winning easily, not champ, and this is just from my runs.
The fact you can do 40-75 kk snipe without golden gear means with golden gear you will again be among top burst dps classes in game; just make some golden gear and try...
Lastly, I commented before and also others did, if leather users will gain much more pa, it will become broken, I strongly disagree they lack pa and running with them on lower pd instances and doing incredibly well is a testimony of it.
Suggestion - Madox just mentioned it as an idea and I took a liberty of posting -
could we have an option to buy speed shoes (e.g. Mud Shoes in RoFL) with longer expiration time - could be 1 week +/or 1 month option - will scale with ac coins but heavy discount, would be nice!
The change would be a cool idea, if there would be some kind of help for all the rogues/scouts. High tierd items would have to getting destroyed, just to re-statt and invest tons of money/time again. High tiered runes would need to get rebuild again, since str runes would be useless for those classes, again, lot of costs.
The stat values could be higherd. This would solve the problem of the missing patk in an instant (or would at least help strongly to fix it). And why shouldnt the rogue have 2 mainstats? because other classes dont do that ? But what about the Knight, he uses str/stam and stam/stam aswell. The healers are using stam/stam and now wisd/wisd aswell (maybe stam/wisd aswell, not sure tho). If you want, a champion Tank would use str/str and str/stam aswell.
I agree, was also just an idea and I personally not sure it is feasible to change it; also completely forgot about the runes haha good point!
In terms of pa issue - what I observe is rogues tend to do VERY VERY well at lower pd instances - the way they set up was always more about speed and less pa. I suspect if pa is buffed, rogues will be new master race hands down. Scouts before the patch were top burst class no idea how they are now, since as I said we don't have a scout in a run.
But in general since scout is range and thus "safer" distance away than melee, I always thought it makes sense for range classes (includes any range classes like mage too for example) to do less damage, but this is ofc my personal opinion 
totally agree with that.
Changing in right now is no problem. Why? Because if you have 3/3 str/dex stats, then you have nearly the same physical attack (a bit lower, sure) buffed than before. That means, nearly same damage in instances and no problem to clear everything like before.
In my opinion it woild not be a good change. Yes, it is doable right now but you would lose patt as scout and
as rogue and no you would no do the same damage as you can notice every single point of patt in rolf and even in gorge. The real question is why do you guys want to change a running system the is in the game since day 1? (with some exceptiones, like rt time)
For me this is to make each gear type user specialized stat - str for chain, dex for leather, int for magic, sta for tank, wis for heals, makes sense. Will also simplify current all phys dps need pain situation - not a big deal but would help.
Loss of pa will be noticeable, I agree, which is why I mentioned it before. One idea could be to set up a transition period: have dex give 2.1 or 2.2 pa now (need to see how much more is needed so there is no loss in pa with current strstr and dexdex) with str give 0 - and then when new ini is out - say in a year - have dex give 2.0 pa to scouts or rogues - that way I think it may work well.
This is not directly related to the latest changes but since you guys are changing a number of things currently you may change it as well -
Exquisite potion of life - AC potion that increases hp - problem is priest hp buff (grace of life) overrides it, thus you lose your potion buff and end up with the priest buff that gives less hp - if possible, could you make it so if one has Exquisite potion of life active then priest grace of life would not remove it
Similarly, pa + pdam buff from d/w (awakening of the wild) is superior than priest pa buff (amplified attack) - would it be possible if someone has d/w pa buff then the prist buff does not overwrite it.
Thank you
Re ch/wl recent change
I am still testing the class, but I like it - good sustain, burst not as strong as others but its fair and ok, and also has 2 aoes, not how old champ used to be but I am enjoying it.
Your latest change nerfed pa from forge by 14% pa and you also nerfed by 11% pa dark energy punishment, you did change the forge to now give pdam instead. Not sure what warrants it, but may I suggest to balance things is to possibly consider adding 1% pa to forge in addition to pdam, that was pa return wont be 14% after 7 hits but 7% and also have your added pdam bonus.
Ch/r I have not tested too much but I still think you need to boost permanent pa from shadow explosion to at least 20-25%, not as high as 50% before but not as low as 10% it is now.
We are aware players are experiencing 20% lower damage on their skills that has no cast time, Warrior/Mage is one of them. It is expecting to be fixed soon.
Greetings
But will there be some correction for the rogue? I wish he would be more dependent on dexterity. agility should give more physical attack! because at the moment it makes no sense to put a full set of stats from Dex / Dex. Also, I would like you to increase a bit of damage to skills that are tied to agility, this would align the balance a little on sharpening things.
rogues are doing exceptionally well atm on single target damage, especially r/wl but still need to see more runs for me to comment more definitively; not sure how they compare with scouts as our guild does not have one atm
I am all for increasing pa from dex BUT then need to have 0 pa from str - that would indeed force leather users to use dex only with things like deftness useable. However, the problem is now all end game leather classes use dex and str stats - how would you fix that? only way is to set up some kind of trade option or compensation, but idk how to do that in an efficient way.
Couple things while testing ch/wl:
Physchic Rampage (lev 70 elite) requires 10% mp on class that uses rage and focus - change to require rage or focus or none?
Skill Indomitable Spirit (lev 35) says should restore 18.6% hp - it does not appear to restore any hp at all, please check - sorry did more testing, healing actually triggers when you do dark damage follow up, I guess works fine, apologies!
Thank you!
Hi all,
1st just a general comment to the devs team - I was surprised how deep the changes were, some classes now really different from how they used to be, which I suppose could be good or bad, depending on your prospective.
2nd it feels like magical dps are now doing exceptionally high dps at least at instances like gorge and below; since rofl mobs were bugged today we could not test it but I feel magic dps will still be very strong and much stronger compared to physical (needs to be confirmed), in particular a couple magic classes seem to do very well, I guess will comment more after testing in few rofl runs once its fixed.
3rd some cuts I personally feel were way over the top, I suspected you will be after champs and w/m, but I think you went over the top for both, ch/r for example went from 50% pa to now 10% pa and 8% pdam with a possibility of adding pa buff from a priest or a dr/w, this is very significant nerf coupled with nerf on pd (cant use sf) coupled with nerf on aoe, all that on a class that was not top dps on bosses (if you exclude trash) in a first place, this is hard for me to take at the moment. I like the idea of forcing champ dps not to use SF and thus be less tankier, I even suggested something similar myself before, but then decrease in pa to that extent don't think was needed. Perhaps with more testing the number may increase from current 10% pa to 20-25%. Please note the 50% less healing is still on on ch/r yet other classes for example ch/w got it removed not sure if this is intentional or not.
4th champ specific and was commented above as well - Shock Overload - I really like the idea of adding this, but when triggers with white hit instead of returning 15 rage it takes it away which makes sustained very hard - please fix it
Overall, I am honestly just overwhelmed at the moment and lost with so many changes, will take a lot of testing for me and trying to see what works now and what does not (which is a good thing I suppose), I just hope champ will still be viable but just different end game and will be solid contributor to raid. There are also good number of champs combos to test + warriors too, so will be busy.
Will post more details once more testing is performed.
Kind regards,
Rakot
Display MoreDisplay MoreI don't like the fact that if you wanna wear all refined rofl items, you loose the setbonus from Gorge Earring and Cape.
https://gyazo.com/e1d8b66da7a79a70f4afd5d25ef409ca
Most of us will not use the refined lower set unless its ultimate... that can't be your intention. But still its hard to compensate nearly 6k patk with the new stats and slightly better nonstats on the refined
Why did you forgot about this setbonus.
It is changed already a while ago, will be applied along with next patch.
Greetings
Byte and rest of the team
Just remembered something, could you please check the bonus for the purple quality lower set as well - I would like to use it on my champ to tank using chain gear (since red refined gives -63% agro) and atm purple quality from rofl wont be better than the purple lower chain set from gorge I am currently using to tank. Would be great if the added bonus would be similarly (probably with little scaling) applied to both red and purple lower sets.
Thanks!
Is CoA too easy?
Good question and as usual all depends on your prospective.
Leveling to max level/events/mobs farming/mini games - yes all now much faster and easier than if you get started. The way I see it and I think how the devs at least initially wanted it is a lot of ppl here already played ROM before and thus did not want to have an extra barrier to spend months getting to max level and all other things you experience as a new player. From my prospective on official, if I wanted to level an alt, I would just make clean items low lev with bag stats and that would make my low lev alt really strong thus easy to level/progess, I see it as a similar idea here
Once you get to end game, however, it is different story. As Shino mentioned above, I agree, most bosses are not burn, most require tactics, thus even with super gear still need to execute. Gear of course helps between event + kill mobs + kill some dps check bosses.
Cons for me ironically too much farming (from where I think you are coming from, you might enjoy it) - new golden gear they way its set up and how much time I can invest in game, I likely will need 1 month per 1 piece, so will be year + to finish assuming I will be doing it.
Another con for me and Shino mentioned above as well, some bosses have repetitive and boring mechanics that just waste so much of the raid time - and since I generally cant afford too much time due to rl, this is big con for me, especially since it does not add much of a value strat wise.
Pros though a lot - new content new features a lot of really nice things, check it out!
Display MoreI don't like the fact that if you wanna wear all refined rofl items, you loose the setbonus from Gorge Earring and Cape.
https://gyazo.com/e1d8b66da7a79a70f4afd5d25ef409ca
Most of us will not use the refined lower set unless its ultimate... that can't be your intention. But still its hard to compensate nearly 6k patk with the new stats and slightly better nonstats on the refined
Why did you forgot about this setbonus.
I have similar concern as Kaly (that partially influenced my question above re accessories since with gorge earing + cape we did not have to worry about that), and most ppl in my guild also came to similar conclusion, not worth it to red the lower set unless gold, and even then loss of pa is significant.
Since every single other item + set makes new red better than the old, I wonder if there is a possible and relatively easy way to address this:
for the new set ( I will just talk about str set since this is what I use, but its likely similar to others to an extent):
2 piece bonus now has +661 attr - I suggest to add to that around 6000 pa so that
new 2 piece bonus would be 6k pa and +661 attr.
Alternative is to make a new set (earing + cape) similar to gorge and make lower 3 items like gorge but I know few ppl already have full red accessories and thus wont be fair to them.
With that change red would be superior and I for example would upgrade to red despite the fact its not gold and thus temp since extra dps it will give is very helpful for my guild in rofl.
Regards,
Rakot
Hi all,
I thought more on the dps & tanking abilities of a champ and here is one idea to perhaps consider (please note it may shift balance in favor of pure champ dps but would sacrifice champ survivability to maintain balance):
1) One of the reasons champs are relatively tanky is even dps use of Shield form (usually at 0) since it gives strong physical defense boost that champs need for tanking. The reason for that is because probability to trigger the chain drive event from normal hit that makes rune pulse (main dps skill of champ) an instant spell is significantly higher compared to when champ is outside of the shield form (either no shield form or disassembly mode).
2) Therefore, one possible option is to make the probability of the chain drive similar for all 3 forms (shield form, normal, disassembly). One may consider the 3 probabilities to be slightly different to maintain balance (slightly higher in shield form, norm without any form, slightly lower in disassembly mode), but if again would be much higher (as the case now) in the shield form, dps will continue to just use it as is
Possible outcome:
What that will accomplish is champs who want to maximize damage will not use shield form, that will significantly decrease their survivability (no extra physical defense for example) but as an offset there will be boost in dps (higher power attack since no loss of str from a shield form or more str if using disassembly mode - but then losing even more sta). Their defense without the shield form then would be similar to for example w/m and will be significantly less than wd (who has pd skill) or s/wd. I suspect the change will likely bring dps closer to other sustained classes, still have nice aoe capabilities (champ specialty) and similar or even smaller physical defense as those classes.
That change will also allow champs who want to tank to max their shield form to get more tankier stats.
I also want to note that for example wd has somewhat similar idea in terms of the tank/dps options, just done differently:
for dps, usually you use Oak walker pet that gives you very significant crit damage increase OR:
for tank, use spirit of the oak that gives strong phys def increase and parry - coupled with briar shield brings pd of wd closer to that of a champ in shield form.
The analogy thus is Oak walker <--> no shield form; spirit of the oak <-->shield form; therefore, the change I list in 2 in my opinion will make similar dps/tank options between the wd class and champ class.
Just my humble opinion after playing for many years on official and here as a wd and as a champ as dps as well as a tank.
Kind regards,
Rakot
Yes, npc that gives various titles (they change so check time from time, today is for example Lucky holder) is Tina, located opposite of the weapon training ground - Itnal ground, coord 18.9, 70.6
In terms of other gifts, two NPC that were listed in the original question is all I use daily don't think there are other daily gifts.
About the AOEs. They have long cool downs and that is what makes them balanced. You cant spam them. Rune Overloads uptime could always be extended by abilitys like Death Arrives which was never the issue. The problem here is that we have items like Experimental Dwarven Ale which extends the period of Rune Overload even further. Extra attack speed on our gear combined with attack potions etc. also leads to an almost neverending rage generation which feeds the champ abliitys.
AOE only really matter in trash mobs or adds during boss - idea that champ turn on aoe and then it does all the work is wrong, the aoe is in fact only a small part of overall dps of the champ on a boss, unless again there are a lot of mobs to kill, but this is champs specialty! AOEs have 1 min cd and rage pots have cd too, so you have to be selective where to use it. In ROFL, 1st boss 2nd room bunch of mobs champ burns with aoes - huge extra damage; 2nd boss, adds phase before crystal same thing tank groups, champ burns mobs - huge extra damage, last boss bulls, tanks collects champ aoe burns - see half of the champ damage from the whole ini is from these three! I can assure if these were not present, w/m would be top dps at least in my guild, sadly w/m often is top dps even with these events but that's prob cuz I suck as a champ
I play champ/rogue because I have sta/hp gear in addition to my dps gear, so when needed I could swap and tank or offtank, but not tank with same dps gear - with dps gear I die easily, its not true you can tank in dps gear with shield 0 on ch/r unless as I stated earlier boss drops really fast ( in that case alot of other classes that have pd skills will be fine too). What that means is I can eaily go wd/w - my favorite class, and do exactly same but have WAY more burst damage than ch/r has. BUT I will lose aoes and the way rofl is set up, we get mobs in packs and if don't kill fast they do ALOT of damage on groups, this is the main reason I stay ch/r. I enjoy playing w/wd as well, but same issue no aoes and then raid suffer if we cant kill packs of mobs. Another guild has scouts that can do nice burst aoe damage from far! that's why they think mobs die quick - it is not as easy if you lack aoes, my guild does not have scouts at the moment and champ provides much needed aoe to speed things up.
I play since the open beta. And i was always pissed that devs only know one answer to a imbalance. They just nerf the strongest class by reducing passives skills or whatever.
I suggest as i ve said before. Leave the champ as it is, and buff the other classes.
I agree with Kaly 100% on this, exactly what I worry they will do, and this is why same as Kaly I suggest to buff other classes! ROFL for the most part does is teamwork based ini, so raid damage is not an issue imho.
Buff other classes - for example there are so many combos yet so few are used - for example wd/w is best dps wd - see if can bring wd/s to become little stronger, or wd/m, same for rogues, r/m is best, optimize r/wl, has a remarkable potential but still couple skills are based on ma and not pa, r/s needs buff to be compared with r/m.
I said it many times before, at the moment there is good variety of classes present, I see mages, warriors, wardens, rogues, champs, knights, warlocks, but usually only a particular combo - expand on this, 1st buff others then see how the balance looks like, but keep the classes that are already doing good constant for now, I think that way would be much easier to achieve so called class balance and not just nerf top few with passives (see scout blood arrow nerf after inferno) and say gg.
Forgot to mention something I find funny from you Kaly - "OR just delete the Zwergenbier (idk the english translation of it)" I call it beer and delete beer from a German sounds funny to me Anyway just a little joke haha
"Scouts do best burst dps?" I never said it, no need to exaggerate, I said scouts do more than champs in burst which is true;
"Champs CAN easily tank in a dps gear, every boss in RoFL" This statement is only true with shield form not 0, but in that case its not a fair comparison since shield converts str to sta; With higher shield form however the dps drops down alot, so again all fair. I also note not everyone plays ch/k as a tank, I enjoy tanking as ch/r and I know 100% I cant tank in dps gear with shield form 0.
Thus, using your own language, I totally disagree with you.
Just saw after you edited "The only reason you say/think your way of the champ is, that you play the champ and don't want to loose your OP part in any time at any instance" - I knew i would regret engaging in this but I thought I could have a good conversation, I was wrong, no more replies from me, will ignore, plz do same.
Display Moreif I can share my invaluable (due to not having run RoFL before) opinion here:
TL;DR: I agree with Melodic on the fact that Ch/R is horrendously imbalanced.
While yes, Wd/W can tank in dps gear, Wd/W doesn't get the HP Ch/R gets, aswell as 50% free permanent patk.
Wd/W is an amazing burst class and can tank anything for 20 seconds, Ch/R can just keep it up forever.
Rune Pulse consumes no resource whatsoever, hits like truck and only suffers a little from RNG from Attacks.
And whilst doing that, they also do permanent (!) Area of Effect damage, and not low damage at that.
if I may compare it to a different yet somewhat similar class in terms of skills, K/M, Ch/R is just off the charts.
K/M gets no burst/perma matk buffs and K/M's Holy Light Domain dmg barely does 1/3rd of the damage Rune Overload does with similar gear sets in low inis, never mind about higher ones.
Obviously I'm comparing magical to physical dps here, but in other aspects K/M and Ch/R are quite similar.
I respect your opinion Orgnix but I don't agree with it, I don't think champ is as strong as you think it is. I don't think its productive for me to continue on this subject, I will refrain from posting regarding it, I think I listed my reasonings above.
I would still appreciate if Devs could comment on my question re the accessories, is it intended the way it is or maybe not, was the only reason I posted above.
Kind regards,
Rakot
As a follow up to my previous post and to comment more on what Lutine mentioned about champs
Champs do best in terms of area damage, and based on that people assume how op champs are.
Are champs top burst dps - no, scouts, wds for example do way more;
are champs best dps long fights - no w/m wins hands down
are champs king of trash mobs - yes they are
can champ tank in dps gear - if answer is yes (some bosses die fast) - same is true with wd/w I can give 100%
Based on the above, ofc my opinion, champs are not kings of all hands down, which is exactly what some ppl think.
See, a lot of misconceptions in my opinion, yet ppl keep crying for nerf, I really don't understand it, it was warranted to some extent on scouts during inferno, but even then I really did not like it and I mention reputedly, don't nerf, buff weaker classes - add more variety!
Cheers,
Rakot
I know its hard to read sometimes, so in response to: "The classes needs a balancing and no more pushes for one class."
I will repeat what I said: "Please note what I described can be similarly applied to all magic classes and likely healers as well." Please also note I ask a question and was not proposing a change.
I will also point out that your aggressive attitude against champ is absolutely no warranted, different classes serve different purposes, and as I mentioned before, right now classes are as balanced as they ever were with many options.
I will repeat the point of my original post is not start this flame, I just honestly wondering if Devs can comment if this is intended or not, and if it is then I am fine with it, if not, would be awesome to fix. Thanks!
Dear Devs team,
I was wondering if you can consider/comment on the question/issue I have with new red/golden accessories, I will explain it from a chain dps user prospective but same applies to magic users and healers.
First, there are two new sets of accessories for physical class - one comes with str bonus (extermination set) and another comes with dex (agility set). The bonus for both sets comes from having 2 and 3 items. The issue is chain classes don't need dex (unlike rogues or scouts) since it does not give power attack, thus agility set is not very good. However, since we have 5 spots for accessories - after filling 3 with the str set we still left with two more items - another ring + another earing.
This is my issue/question - I would ideally like to have another ring and earing from the extermination set that would give me an additional 2 items bonus - in addition to the 3 bonus I get from other 3 items from the same set. However, at the moment game does not give additional 2 items bonus. For example, currently, if I have 2 rings 2 earrings and 1 necklace from same extermination set, I would only get 3 items bonus, and not 3items bonus + 2 items bonus.
Since items are different in my opinion it makes sense for them to give 3+2 items bonus, which is not the case now. Could you please look into it and see if this is something that you may consider changing/implementing (assuming its even possible).
Please note what I described can be similarly applied to all magic classes and likely healers as well.
Kind regards,
Rakot
We aren't planning to change stat distribution on refined equipments, whereas Ultimate equipment has stats distributed to every part of it.
Greetings
Thanks for the quick reply Byte, it is disappointing and not really clear why, but it is what it is I guess.
Regards
Dear Devs team,
It recently came to my attention that refining DN aoth accessories to new red ones yields new red items without a single purple stat on them. I would appreciate if the team could check and comment if this is intended or perhaps a mistake? I personally don't really understand why refined accessories do not come with the purple stats while other gear does. If a mistake, would be great to fix it before too many ppl got theirs.
Additionally, while I cant confirm myself, but it is likely that the new red refined cape also does not come with the purple stat either - this is similar to how it was for gorge cape, however.
I would appreciate if you guys can check that.
Many thanks in advance,
Rakot
Dear Byte and rest of the team,
Since we are talking about possible damage bugs, one I was always wondering and not sure if intended -
if you are a scout, using different arrows will directly increase ranged physical damage (on char) by significant amount, which is why best arrows are commonly used. Yet, for say rogue with projectiles, different projectiles do NOT add to the melee physical damage (on char), thus there is no significant reason to use stronger projectiles (difference is marginal).
Could you please check if this is intended or not, and if not either remove additional range damage scouts get from the arrows, or have similar additional damage added to melee classes who use projectiles. I am always in favor of adding...
Thanks!
