Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Nachdem mit dem letzten Patchs einige Kundschafterklassen etwas gepusht worden, schlage ich vor beim Kundschafter/Druiden den Skill Fokus von 35% auf 40% zu erhöhen. Nach meiner persönlichen Einschätzung ist er leider etwas sehr ins Abseits geraten.

    Euch allen noch schöne Feiertage :)

    Servus Peter



    After some scout classes were pushed a bit with the last patch, I suggest increasing the skill focus of scouts / druids from 35% to 40%. In my personal assessment, unfortunately, it has gotten a bit sidelined.


    Happy Holidays to all of you :)


    Greetings Peter

    to be honest. don't look only on your favorit class combi.

    For example Scout/Rogue. This class have nearly nothing compared to others.


    Scout/R vs S/W vs S/D

    Scout/R: 18.6% p-atk increase permanent. 6% dmg buff with 50% uptime. A poisonous bite which is like Combo Shot damage. permanent 12.4% attackspeed (which is not rly useful fullbuffed). A weak skill which increase critical dmg by 12% for 8 seconds. The additional damage over time of this class is to weak.


    S/W: 22.8% permanent p-atk increase with 34.2% critical damage increase. Permanent fast auto shots. 26.2% dmg increase with 50% uptime. 8% p-atk increase with ~40% uptime. 50% stronger snipe. a little bit p-atk increase bcs of 10% more str passive of warrior. And "endless" focus.


    S/D: Focus buff which permanent increase p-atk depending on your dmg (which is something around 10% I guess, depending on buffs). permanent 21% dmg increase with mana support. permanent 8% attackspeed (which is not rly usefull for full buffed). A little bit stronger snipe and a second strong skill.


    Depending on such compare, I would objectively say, that S/R is weak compared to the other 2 (I am only comparing between these 3 scout classes!).

    Scout/D is more dependent on mana support and profits more from higher gear.

    Scout/W has high p-atk values (even without crazy gear) and strong short time buffs.

    Scout/R would be strong in single target, if other scouts would do a Vampire Arrow on target, but that is a long forgotten dream tbh ^^.


    My feelings are: S/W > S/D > S/R, but the gap between S/D and S/R is bigger than S/W vs S/D


    Greetings

    Ich gebe Dir vollkommen Recht, dass der Kundschafter/Schurke leider eine vergessene Klasse geworden ist, auch hier gehört die Klasse gepusht.

    Aber mit meinen 71 Jahren (man hat leider nicht mehr die schnelle Reaktionsgeschwindigkeit) ist der Kundschafter/Druide relativ leicht zu spielen und die Reduzierung des Fokus von 50% auf 35% war etwas zu viel.

    Servus Peter


    I absolutely agree with you that the scout / villain has unfortunately become a forgotten class, here too the class should be pushed.


    But with my 71 years (unfortunately you don't have the fast reaction speed anymore) the Scout / Druid is relatively easy to play and the reduction of the focus from 50% to 35% was a bit too much.


    Servus Peter


    Übrigens ist in meiner Rota der Vampirpfeil mit drin, es könnte sich ja ein Schurke mal in die Gruppe verirren ;)

    Quote from orbit

    I forgot one thing like i always do. Its important if you change like this to fix the Aoe Sandstorm, because if you cant inturrubt it, you cant replace it if it bug

    You can interrupt it, but damage taken doesn't, which is quite cool for a tank, but wasn't sure if it's intended. I appreciate the current mechanic how it is tbh, my post was just about the class being too strong overall for its difficulty. The planned poison dmg nerf could already fix it, I guess.

    Hi,


    I would propose to reduce the Scout/warrior 22.8% patk buff (ID 491337) to 12% and maybe change the skill 492620 that it will not reduce movement speed. On slow runs and stationary bosses, this class is really strong


    Greetings.

    I was asked about S/wrd I forgot.


    S/Wrd: 5.4% permanent dmg increase. 18.3% p-atk increase with 50% uptime. Entling Offering passively deals 50% dps on every hit with a cooldown of 2 sec after 30 hits done. Double Snipe for burst + charged chop. Possibility to use Snipe usefull in trash because of 0.5 sec cast time. additional AOE skills. Overall the single target burst potential is a bit higher than from S/D, but needs a little bit more time (so nothing for balton :D). Quite good AOE dmg overall because of elite skills (need to use a bit mana potions or have mana support), but entling offering is now more a decoration in AOE burst. With the 2 seconds cooldown phase after 30 hits, it would be a good idea to increase the dmg of entling offering to around 75-100% dps. That could be more balanced. Sadly the lvl 60 elite is a bit waste. It's only usefull in pvp but kinda useless in PvE


    Greetings

    Agree with the S/wd stuff. Since the buffs to S/W this class is getting less and less play because the main point (AoE through entling offering) is just not strong enough anymore and the feeling to rely on rng when it enters the CD state ist just a frustrating thing. I really like to play that class but to make it worthy the Entling mechanic either needs to be changed again or it needs more Damage.

    On the other scout classes nothing really changed. S/D the stronger the equip the better the class. S/W a bit too strong and overall outclasses most other scouts on decent gear. S/CH feels diffrent but is a good combination except that it basicly still is a melee class because of the 50 range joint blow which should really be changed.

    S/R and S/k doesnt have anything to offer against all the other classes so it basiclly doesnt exist for scouts :(.



    So overall

    S/WD make Entling Offering great again with removing the debuff or buffing the damage

    S/W get rid of a bit of the physical attack maybe down to ~15%

    S/R S/K useless classes maybe rework or give them identitys like physical light and physical poison dmg scouts :)

    S/CH joint blow 200 range



    Mages, Delete them all

    Hello,

    totally agree with you and Lutine

    and find your suggestions good


    LG Luciaa

    Hello,


    why does a magical poisonous arrow (Druid/Warlock skill Poison Arrow, id: 1490621) not have a travel time and a magical bite (Mage/Rogue skill Cursed Fang, id: 491578) does?


    ~kind regards Noodlez

    Quote from Noodlez

    Hello,


    why does a magical poisonous arrow (Druid/Warlock skill Poison Arrow, id: 1490621) not have a travel time and a magical bite (Mage/Rogue skill Cursed Fang, id: 491578) does?


    ~kind regards Noodlez

    Maybe because the cursed fang does not build up any buff/debuff stacks :/ Would be a mess if the deadly poison increase triggeres after the travel time, I guess. We all would cast an additional poisonous arrow before we cast the poison of nature <X Or we had to use timers depending on the amount of stacks on the target, which wouldn't work properly due to the travel distance delay.

    However, I think a lot of spells shouldn't have a travel distance delay at all, there are only a few which really make sense. :/

    Yeah it doesnt build up stacks but it applies a debuff which you need for your stronger cast on Mage/Rogue. Veeeeeeeeeeeery similiar mechanic and guess who is casting additional Cursed Fangs because of it. :)


    Edit:

    I am just saying that it doesnt make sence thematically.

    Quote from Zyrex

    However, I think a lot of spells shouldn't have a travel distance delay at all, there are only a few which really make sense. :/

    I dont mind the travel distance delay. It makes sence from a game design perspective and it rewards you for playing stuff "manually" and not via any scripts which is cool in my opinion.


    But maybe it should be unified. Its either you have the delay for everything or for nothing rly.


    ~my opinion anyway

    Ch/Wd


    The class is pretty decent atm but needs a bit of cleanup imo.


    Guidance of nature (1490561) suffers the same issue as Rune growth did before it was made passive. I would really like, just for smoothness of play, to up the cost to 5% mana but remove it's gcd. It's a major annoyance and feels very clunky to have a skill like this in one's main rotation.

    Warrior/Knight

    I played the Warrior/Knight a bit these days and it felt pretty good. The only thing I'm missing is: The class feels a bit weak in terms of defense. Maybe change the Concentrated Precision (ID: 492914) to increase physical defense by 15% but increasing HP only by 5%.


    The class feels a bit of an HP bubble but has not that much defense, since it uses Berserk on cooldown for max dmg -> aggro, which is overwritten by Defensive Formation. It felt a bit strange using Shield of discipline while running berserk and switch to Defensive Formation right afterwards. I'd prefer either having Berserk not reducing my Def at all, or give the class an additional def increase passively.


    Knight/Champion

    The Offensive Sacrifice still feels a bit clunky. Stacking the buff to 10 requires 10 hits of Holy Strike, which is in a normal rotation around 15 global cooldowns, means, the class is reaching its maximum defense after 15 seconds. A good thing is the increase even if the target is immune, but it still doesn't feel good, since the stacks can run off. Maybe don't let all 10 stacks run off once the buff runs off after 20 seconds, but just lower the stacks by 1 any 10 seconds.


    Knight/Mage

    The class just feels too strong. The meta shifted from Knight/Rogue to Knight/Mage and I rarely see any other combination out there. The Holy Light Domain is better than the Warrior/Priest Debuff, which makes the class as a supporter useless if you have a K/M in your raid. Also, the increase of light damage through Intensification is just too strong. There is no other knight class with a better burst aggro imo, at least I haven't found any yet.


    My suggestion is here, to lower the damage reduction of the Holy Light domain from 21.8% to 11.8% but let it stack with the W/P debuff. With this skill (which has no cooldown btw and can be kept on a 100% uptime) you don't need any crowd control and even can aggro mobs while you're feared, since it's running more or less passively (if you include it into your rota or simply use a holy strike/light domain macro).


    I would like to see a more diverse tank meta and Warrior/Priest should be more useful, in any raid setup.


    Druid/Warlock tank

    The class is pretty decent with specific cloth tank gear, even better than any warlock tank imho. In terms of gameplay, it's just too easy to hold aggro. Even a full support scout burst is no match for it if you have at least 0.5 seconds left for casting your first spell. In my opinion the strongest aggro burst in game by far. But it's way too easy for being such an insanely strong tank combination. So I would suggest lowering the aggro bonus of Toxic Possession (ID 1490628) from 100% to 75% for the moment. The aggro bonus is nothing for a dps, which just uses some recon runes in mainhand and offhand, so it just affects the DWl tank.


    I mean, for real: I'm just standing next to the melees, using sandstorm on the mobs to pull them and the aggro within this single sandstorm is enough for them at all. I just keep spamming spells for damage, since I got like 1-1.2kk matt all the time with no further support. In burst I even reach 1.5-1.6kk matt, which is insane. In a full golden cloth tank gear, I could reach 1.8kk for sure, while being at 1kk hp.


    Warlock/Warden tank

    If there is a druid/warlock tank, I also want my warlock tank being better. This class requires everything the druid does not for surviving. I can reach the same damage mitigation, but need to work for it decently more. Keeping up Psi, while alwas standing on the Mind Barrier and channeling the Otherworldly Whisper. If I have to move out of the Mind Barrier, I can't even channel my Whisper, making me vulnerable to being oneshot to bosses, like Jerath.


    My suggestion is: Increase the damage mitigation of Stone Shell while under the effect of Willpower Construct from 12%x4 to 12%x6 again, as it was at release of the class. This will be 72% less damage, with specific cloth tank gear, also reaching the cap. But since aggro on this class is more difficult than on the druid, it would still be balanced I guess.


    Warden/Knight

    This class is not good at all, as it currently is. There is no point of playing it at all. Better play a warden/warrior, but there is also no point imo. But Warden/Knight "could" be a decent tank with some love.


    - First, let the Spirit of the Oak become a buff, no more a pet or prevent it being targeted/attackable by mobs and don't let it pull mobs neither. The pet dies too often for being useful for the class. In Gorge for example, it's just useless.

    - Holy Chain (ID 1490664): Give it an additional 15% aggro boost. The taunt is quite useless currently without such a boost, since burst aggro on Wd/K is one of the worst of all tanks.

    - Energy Absorb (ID: 1490866): The amount of damage reduced for raid members is too low for being useful. Increase that from 15% to 45%.

    - Also Energy Absorb: additionally increase the caster's physical damage by 30% (from 15%). And increase the duration to 30 seconds, as most other 60s cd buffs have become.




    EDIT: Btw, please change the Warlock/Warden Stone Shell to only decrease taken damage by monsters, or everyone will play this in pvp...

    Quote from Zyrex

    Warrior/Knight

    Don't forget that warriors get 24% less AOE damage. Furthermore the lvl 50 elite also reduce the dmg taken by 12.4%, which could be seen as 12% bonus def, but is better than flat def.



    Quote from Zyrex

    Knight/Mage

    Knight/Warden has way more burst aggro. waayyyy more :D

    But yes, w/p is kinda "useless" (only mdef-buff, hp buff and berserk buff). If a raid have a w/p in party, ask the tank why he still is k/m. Makes no sense at all and the tank could switch to a more utility tank like k/ch and w/k or more support tank like k/p or k/d


    Greetings

    Quote from xLutinex

    Don't forget that warriors get 24% less AOE damage. Furthermore the lvl 50 elite also reduce the dmg taken by 12.4%, which could be seen as 12% bonus def, but is better than flat def.

    Is it really better than flat def? I thought, damage reduction is calculated multiplicative recently, so the actual amount is less than 12.4%?


    Quote from xLutinex

    Knight/Warden has way more burst aggro. waayyyy more :D

    Haven't played this class as a tank yet, thought it's a dps class, since plenty aggro buffs give no further aggro :/ Such as Holy Power Explosion, Truth Shield Bash and maybe more.

    W/P also have debuff who increase dmg 5% on target and str5%+aggro reduction 15% buff for me he is ok right now as support he can deal some dmg(not like good dps but he can do something like 1.5-2kkk) and buff party debuff boss


    about reduction from k/m or w/p good pt no need this bcs mobs die fast or they are stunned(good ch/d w/p + one dps like r/ch who use stuns and moobs do nothing)

    Quote from Zyrex
    Quote from xLutinex

    Don't forget that warriors get 24% less AOE damage. Furthermore the lvl 50 elite also reduce the dmg taken by 12.4%, which could be seen as 12% bonus def, but is better than flat def.

    Is it really better than flat def? I thought, damage reduction is calculated multiplicative recently, so the actual amount is less than 12.4%?


    Quote from xLutinex

    Knight/Warden has way more burst aggro. waayyyy more :D

    Haven't played this class as a tank yet, thought it's a dps class, since plenty aggro buffs give no further aggro :/ Such as Holy Power Explosion, Truth Shield Bash and maybe more.

    Even multiplicative it's better. with 15% more pdef you get in best case 15% less dmg with dmg formula. with 12.4% dmg reduction, you get 12.4% less dmg if you compare without that buff.


    Knight/warden has monster aggro even without such aggro buffs of holy power explosion etc. I played it 1 or 2 weeks ago and still made ~1kk whirlwind shield and 1.5kk holy strike on balton. I guess that's enough xD

    And you can switch to 1h + shield if you have enough aggro. then you have even more def than all other knights.

    I still don't know why k/m have the debuff on mobs. That should be w/p job, period.

    You say k/m is best single aggro burst of knights well idk about that but, what I know... it is one of the worst for the rest of ini. Can't wait for them to remove this debuff so tanks play again the other knight combinations and we can dps safely again without tanking most mobs of the ini lol. I'm close to shit my pants every 3 mobs ^^

    Quote from Madox

    I still don't know why k/m have the debuff on mobs. That should be w/p job, period.

    You say k/m is best single aggro burst of knights well idk about that but, what I know... it is one of the worst for the rest of ini. Can't wait for them to remove this debuff so tanks play again the other knight combinations and we can dps safely again without tanking most mobs of the ini lol. I'm close to shit my pants every 3 mobs ^^

    Then it's a tank problem. You can even hold the aggro without a secondary class. The tank should fit into the group setup. If there is a w/p in group, the tank defintily should NOT be a k/m. if he is, ask him why. if your tank lack on aggro, tell him to play tank classes with more bonus aggro. Removing a similar buff off one class isn't a solution. Then you can also say remove warp charge and surge of awareness of all warlock main and secondary classes and let it only be an elite skill of wl/m, because it is the job of wl/m xD

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Madox

    I still don't know why k/m have the debuff on mobs. That should be w/p job, period.

    You say k/m is best single aggro burst of knights well idk about that but, what I know... it is one of the worst for the rest of ini. Can't wait for them to remove this debuff so tanks play again the other knight combinations and we can dps safely again without tanking most mobs of the ini lol. I'm close to shit my pants every 3 mobs ^^

    Then it's a tank problem. You can even hold the aggro without a secondary class. The tank should fit into the group setup. If there is a w/p in group, the tank defintily should NOT be a k/m. if he is, ask him why. if your tank lack on aggro, tell him to play tank classes with more bonus aggro. Removing a similar buff off one class isn't a solution. Then you can also say remove warp charge and surge of awareness of all warlock main and secondary classes and let it only be an elite skill of wl/m, because it is the job of wl/m xD

    They are not my tanks. They are pug tanks and 99% are k/m doesn't matter if w/p is there or not. I'm not gonna tell people in a pug how to play O.o


    Same as dps play what they want, tanks do too (remember rofl is easy and any class work, not need to pick the best). Dps are mostly picking the strongest. Tanks became lazy and only pick k/m, doesn't matter the situation. Sadly that is not good for me :)

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from xLutinex

    Then it's a tank problem. You can even hold the aggro without a secondary class. The tank should fit into the group setup. If there is a w/p in group, the tank defintily should NOT be a k/m. if he is, ask him why. if your tank lack on aggro, tell him to play tank classes with more bonus aggro. Removing a similar buff off one class isn't a solution. Then you can also say remove warp charge and surge of awareness of all warlock main and secondary classes and let it only be an elite skill of wl/m, because it is the job of wl/m xD

    They are not my tanks. They are pug tanks and 99% are k/m doesn't matter if w/p is there or not. I'm not gonna tell people in a pug how to play O.o


    Same as dps play what they want, tanks do too (remember rofl is easy and any class work, not need to pick the best). Dps are mostly picking the strongest. Tanks became lazy and only pick k/m, doesn't matter the situation. Sadly that is not good for me :)

    tbh: I guess tanks looked what other tank-player playing or asked them and then -> they play the same class without the knowledge, why some tanks are playing that specific class. I mean, I saw so many tanks in random runs in the past, doing so many mistakes in generating aggro... because they don't know their skills / the class

    But like you said: it's not my guild and that's why I just chill and hope it's over soon xD *doing everything for a core xD*


    I know what you mean with tanks became lazy, but your aggro problem will not be changed, if they change the class, trust me. If you play d/wl, take a k/p with you. then you are on aggro cap ;) this could help xD

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from xLutinex

    If you play d/wl, take a k/p with you. then you are on aggro cap ;) this could help xD

    Oh im not that brave to use 3% dmg 12h potion as d/wl, I'm always on aggro cap ^^

    Then explain your tanks how to tank. As a K/M i nearly never have any aggro issues. (Doesnt matter if i play with tank gear or chain off-tank gear)
    Your experiences you did in the past or even till now, seems to be very unlucky. And if you got Aggro, it's not always an issue of a Tank tbh. Even when you say you have Aggro cap.

    And i dunno why you wanna remove a buff from a class which works well and give you smth to do as a tank. If you play other tank combis you dont need to pay attention at all for anything. Its kinda weird what you gonna say.

    Taking a W/Pr always into Party is also just a Random-Run thing. In my Guildruns, atleast in the past, we never sayed we need a W/Pr. Today, you cant go rofl random without supporter classes which is kinda ...


    Greetings