Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    after looking in the tank rework ...

    i found nothing in relation to k/ch..

    the new instance create a way to wear a 1-hand-sword as tank cause of the stamina.

    k/ch eliteskills would like to see a 1-hand-hammer.

    with the new weapon the k/ch lose more stamina as before with the strength on the hammer and the bad stack of the deff skill...

    i my opinion, you need to change something.


    greetings

    Quote from Groot

    with the new weapon the k/ch lose more stamina as before with the strength on the hammer and the bad stack of the deff skill...

    Imo the old 104 hammer is better than the new one. You get a little of dps, but loose a ton of stamina. All the new nonstats are useless for a tank imo. So I think, it's not such a big deal. Also, your hammer damage is decently increased, so it should matter less, if you use the 104 or 105 hammer. ^^


    I do like the k/ch the most of all tanks, but I would be fine only with the general tank changes on it. But maybe there is still something more coming for k/ch anyway? Guess we will see.

    Quote from Brontes

    These changes will cement the definitive superiority of plate tanks in comparison to other gear types. Our aim is that we do not destroy non-plate tank classes.

    What about warlock/knight? Please don't allow plate into this class as the other 8274 classes in this patch :P

    Quote from Brontes

    With overdura and two reconciliation runes, a DPS should now have about ~15.7% aggro when wearing a dark core and RoFL set.

    so dps will do approximately 57% more aggro than with 10% aggro.

    I calculated my future aggro after the patch. I will have ~33% more aggro fullbuffed. this will result in a big problem for knight tanks. warden and champ tanks doing right now way more aggro than knights.

    And there will be classes with only 1 recon rune possible


    Greetings

    I suggest everything that reduces aggro now, should be changed to be range depentend. Holy Protection from K/P and the ISS from warrior should only be active when u actually have 1 of these classes in your instance.


    Kind Regards

    Jockels

    • Official Post

    Generally speaking, the direction we want to take tanking (and as extension, generating aggro) into a more exciting route.

    Our goals for that matter are:

    • Create more viable tanks
    • Make tanking more active
    • Allow for more diverse and interesting class setups
    • Help out the survival of melees
    • Give each tanking archetype a distinct playstyle
    Quote from xLutinex

    What about barbarian battlecry from Warrior/priest?

    These two buffs will be made exclusive to one another. We want to keep Warrior/Priest alive as a support but give it competition in the form of Knight-DPS.

    Quote from xLutinex

    so dps will do approximately 57% more aggro than with 10% aggro.

    I calculated my future aggro after the patch. I will have ~33% more aggro fullbuffed.


    Greetings

    Knight tanks in general will generate about twice as much aggro than before. You can expect to land somewhere around 1.500% to 1.700% aggro, certain combinations will far exceed these values though.

    In addition, we removed the exclusivity between Threaten and some other aggro buffs that existed before, as Threaten itself no longer generates aggro. We also expect DPS to use Tranquility Powders when bursting. We removed the shared cooldown between it and experimental dwarven ale for that matter.


    Quote from xLutinex

    And there will be classes with only 1 recon rune possible


    Greetings

    Classes with only one reconciliation rune will get effects which will reduce their aggro.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Serenadae

    I just hope the Warrior iss doesn't become mandatory, due to the changes.

    As a chain user, I for one don't want to be forced to play Warrior all the time for the sake of the group.

    From what we have tested and calculated, the buff will be of benefit for the group but not mandatory. We're balancing the the stable aggro of players with these kinds of buffs added later on.

    • Official Post
    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Brontes

    Knight tanks in general will generate about twice as much aggro than before. You can expect to land somewhere around 1.500% to 1.700% aggro, certain combinations will far exceed these values though.

    please do the math for me :)

    While we don't believe in telling players what to do, this is on a knight without secondary class. Explosion of holy might and appropriate buffs are active. Many have much more aggro than that. Please keep in mind that values are subject to change.

    Brontes is it intended that Warden/Warrior has 120%+ parry after patch? Now I have 86% parry in plate+ spirit of the oak =106% parry and after the patch + coat of the arms = 126% parry permanent. Intended?

    • Official Post
    Quote from xLutinex

    Brontes is it intended that Warden/Warrior has 120%+ parry after patch? Now I have 86% parry in plate+ spirit of the oak =106% parry and after the patch + coat of the arms = 126% parry permanent. Intended?

    Yes. Monsters in Dark Core are significantly higher level than you and even with 126% shown in the character frame you will still not have 100% parry against certain bosses.

    Quote from Brontes
    Quote from xLutinex

    Brontes is it intended that Warden/Warrior has 120%+ parry after patch? Now I have 86% parry in plate+ spirit of the oak =106% parry and after the patch + coat of the arms = 126% parry permanent. Intended?

    Yes. Monsters in Dark Core are significantly higher level than you and even with 126% shown in the character frame you will still not have 100% parry against certain bosses.

    But really... tbh now. Someone read the changes?

    • Changed Resilience of Life to increase your defense by 30% additionally.
    • Changed Pulse Mastery to increase aggro and physical defense by 60% while Spirit of the Oak is summoned, and just reduces aggro by 10% when it is not summoned.
    • Changed Coat of Arms: Can’t be used on yourself. Binds you with an ally. Increases Physical Defense by 30% and Parry Rate by 20% for both of you. Bond will be broken when you are too far away or either one of you is dead.
    • Changed Spirit of the Oak to no longer reduce attack power, but reduced defense gain to 50% from 95%.

    (+ Briar Shield def bonus)


    in sum warden/warrior gets +394% def bonus permanent! while knights (the one with additional def skills) only have +107% maximum

    I dont know, but I doubt it will be balanced. Maybe warden/warrior has permanent 15-20kk pdef o.o


    Edit: and additionally the +pdef skill of the warrior 50% uptime xd

    Edit 2: Ok I have as wrd/warrior only ~8,5 - 9kk deff permanent (I did my math with my values) while as knight I have max 5,5kk :D

    • Changed Threaten: Your knightly charisma inflicts the eminent dread to your enemy. When activated, your spells will reduce targets attack power by 8% for 10 seconds. This can be stacked up to 4 times. Threaten lasts 900 seconds.

    This change outweights any high defense value in my opinion. It is easily stacked by a K/R, even in aoe, due to Tsunami and the Blades hitting twice. Given the high attack values of the mobs in dc, it will provide a huge damage mitigation not only to the Knight but to the whole group.


    And let's not even talk about Shield of Discipline, which is still the most potent defensive cd in the game.


    I for one think the changes to Wd/W are reasonable, if the intention was to make it as viable for tanking as a Knight.

    w/p buff is more effective than Threaten. And tbh why playing knight, if warden and champ doing way more aggro with less effort. We'll see how it is after patch, but I think warden or champ could be new tank meta. knight is the only class without any passive dmg increase for their weapon.

    And btw skills like threaten and w/p buff are good, if you addicted to them for surviving. If you dont need them, everyone would play a class with more and easy aggro I guess (that's what I saw in rofl months/years ago. many played k/r only bcs of easy 1 hit aggro^^)

    Brontes Why is Holy Seal changed, that it will not do damage over time anymore? In cases of aggro reset + immune/event phases, this was the only chance as a knight to get aggro of the boss. Such cases aren't sooo rare. Rofl endboss and b3 in DC for example

    Edited once, last by xLutinex: Ein Beitrag von xLutinex mit diesem Beitrag zusammengefügt. ().

    Agree. Plus...

    Quote from General Knight

    Changed Strike of Punishment: Untainted holy energy adheres to the weapon, giving the target a severe punishment. Inflicts 400% main hand weapon DPS damage. If target has any, it consumes all Holy Seal and reduces their attack power by 4% for each stack for 12 seconds.

    ...results in a reduction of 53% on single targets, which also seems to be available for W/K and all the other /K classes, which is awesome! :thumbup:


    EDIT

    @Dev: Hopefully you changed the cd of Strike of Punishment to like 12 seconds or something. Otherwise the skill will feel kinda useless ^^

    Quote from Zyrex

    ...results in a reduction of 53% on single targets, which also seems to be available for W/K and all the other /K classes, which is awesome! :thumbup:

    I think it's calculated the other way. 100 patk * 0.68 (threaten) * 0.84 (Strik of Punishment). That will result in 43% reduction. I doubt the debuffs will be multiplied against each other. That would a unique mechanic that I've never saw in this game

    W/P buff and Threaten stack.

    "And btw skills like threaten and w/p buff are good, if you addicted to them for surviving."

    Sure, but the same can be said about both aggro and survivability. Why strive for more if it's already enough ?

    It comes down to a personal preference I guess, but K/R aggro already is plenty and it largely doesn't matter wether you build up 20kk or 300kk aggro on a trashmob.

    Selfish stats like pdef or life (above the needed minimum ofc) matter the least in my eyes, but that again is a topic up for debate.

    As you said, let's wait and see.


    I fully agree on the Holy Seal topic though.

    Quote from Serenadae

    W/P buff and Threaten stack.

    No. Read this:

    Quote from Brontes

    These two buffs will be made exclusive to one another. We want to keep Warrior/Priest alive as a support but give it competition in the form of Knight-DPS.

    It's good that the two buffs don't stack btw!

    Quote from Serenadae

    Sure, but the same can be said about both aggro and survivability. Why strive for more if it's already enough ?

    It comes down to a personal preference I guess, but K/R aggro already is plenty and it largely doesn't matter wether you build up 20kk or 300kk aggro on a trashmob.

    The problem here is, that I doubt that the average knight player can hold aggro against 1 weapon users with 26% aggro left. Or the group is forced to use warriors in group and the knight maybe needs to play knight/priest.

    I just dont want the "oh shit. that's not working like we thought"-moment after the patch. My personal favorite tank class is anyway a totally other class, that I never saw on someone else and it will be viable again, I think.

    "These two buffs will be made exclusive to one another. We want to keep Warrior/Priest alive as a support but give it competition in the form of Knight-DPS."


    Mea culpa, didn't see that.

    However, I think W/P won't be a usual class to bring to dc, so it doesn't matter much.

    Agreed though, I'm glad they don't stack.


    I think the tanks that already tanked dc are quite capable of holding aggro even after patch, but that's only a presumption ofc.

    I see where you are coming from though. After all that's the purpose of this thread: To exchange thoughts and give feedback.

    Regarding upcoming K/Wl changes:

    • Reduced Holy Power Explosion cooldown to 30 seconds from 40, increased duration to 30 seconds from 20, changed resource recovery to 2% HP + 20 Focus every 2 seconds, no longer recovers Focus on heal.

    Thank you very much for this change, it will most definitely help a lot, both in terms of overall damage and focus sustain.

    However, please consider changing the skill to a 900 seconds buff or at least removing the gcd. Sacrificing one gcd every 30 seconds has little impact on overall damage, but will feel very unpleasant to play.

    Quote from Serenadae

    Regarding upcoming K/Wl changes:

    • Reduced Holy Power Explosion cooldown to 30 seconds from 40, increased duration to 30 seconds from 20, changed resource recovery to 2% HP + 20 Focus every 2 seconds, no longer recovers Focus on heal.

    Thank you very much for this change, it will most definitely help a lot, both in terms of overall damage and focus sustain.

    However, please consider changing the skill to a 900 seconds buff or at least removing the gcd. Sacrificing one gcd every 30 seconds has little impact on overall damage, but will feel very unpleasant to play.

    Same goes for all knights:

    Increased Holy Power Explosion duration to 30 seconds from 20 seconds, decreased cooldown to 25 seconds from 40 seconds, increased aggro gain to 90% from 62.5%, changed mana recovery to 5% per 5 seconds from 3% per 2 seconds.


    30 sec duration with 25 sec cooldown. Maybe a 900 second buff or toggle skill? ^^

    • Official Post
    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Zyrex

    ...results in a reduction of 53% on single targets, which also seems to be available for W/K and all the other /K classes, which is awesome! :thumbup:

    I think it's calculated the other way. 100 patk * 0.68 (threaten) * 0.84 (Strik of Punishment). That will result in 43% reduction. I doubt the debuffs will be multiplied against each other. That would a unique mechanic that I've never saw in this game

    Physical Attack and Physical Damage reductions applied to a NPC aren't behaving as you may expect. NPCs are losing excessive damage/attack than actual loss, and losing physical attack will also reduce physical damage of NPC too in a certain rate which we cannot share for now.


    Greetings

    • Changed Evasion -> Forsaken Maneuver: Increases dodge rate and magic resist rate by 43%.

    Maybe this will be too strong for r/wrl if he has passivly both, the dodge rate already is insane, maybe lower the amount to 20% since its permanent on that class.