Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    s / wd and s / d need reinforcements. s / r needs a buffing change in order not to derive it from hitting but firing, s / k is a non-gaming combination that needs a major shift. adding ranged weapon damage is the easy going that will give you nothing but frustration for other classes

    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from Byte

    The mentioned buff is resulting in 5% damage gain, not 8%.


    Greetings

    This does not answer my question. How did you find every single scout needed a buff? I have not seen any forum post on this matter, only single connection's opinions.

    In the current meta, every scout is behind a bard/x in single and aoe dmg. it's always painful if you test/compare with t18 weapon against t15 and lower gears anyway. there are so many mdps and chain dps classes, which do more dmg than every scout. And as a scout you can't participate for 100% on every fight/event in the endcontent bcs of the blood arrow

    just my feelings

    I have to agree with Merkur here.

    Why not just buff the underperforming Scout combinations instead of a global buff that affects the already strong ones as well ?


    Same story with the Champion/Rogue changes.

    Why does the combination that imho already is the strongest one get a buff, but the others don't ?


    I'd like to know the reasoning behind those changes.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Merkur

    This does not answer my question. How did you find every single scout needed a buff? I have not seen any forum post on this matter, only single connection's opinions.

    In the current meta, every scout is behind a bard/x in single and aoe dmg. it's always painful if you test/compare with t18 weapon against t15 and lower gears anyway. there are so many mdps and chain dps classes, which do more dmg than every scout. And as a scout you can't participate for 100% on every fight/event in the endcontent bcs of the blood arrow

    just my feelings

    I agree with that, I have similar feelings about the rogue.

    But just because bard/x beats more than scout doesn't mean scout needs a buff, just that bard (freshly added) needs a nerf. Because the bard/x also beats more than the rogue.


    And when it comes to blood arrow and its limitations, a funny thing, some time ago I proposed to change the blood arrow, I was gently laughed at because I wanted to disrupt the fundamental mechanics of the game. On this forum it is said that a good heal is enough :)

    Quote from xLutinex

    there are so many mdps and chain dps classes, which do more dmg than every scout.

    And tbh i don't think there is a single mage or warlock main class which is included in this statement.

    The viable/strong mdps classes are only some other combinations sadly. That's why i don't understand this change too.


    Greetings

    Quote from Serenadae

    Why not just buff the underperforming Scout combinations instead of a global buff that affects the already strong ones as well ?

    I would have loved that instead of the 8% (5%) dmg buff. /warrior /warden are perfectly fine as they are right now ( mb not vs bards but thats another topic xD ).

    There where many suggestions to make /rogue a better combination aswell or maybe look into long lost scouts such as /Knight . Not talking about Scout/Bard where i have no clue if this class should be a supporter or DD as it has both options in a weak way .

    Edit: Also /champ doesnt need a buff from my experience , it is just not played cause the class design is not very pleasent to play and you need to make 2 new Weapons just for this class whom 1 is used on one other leather class and the other only usable on scout/champ



    Greetings

    If you identify a UFO as a UFO , then it becomes an FO. Unless it has landed , then it is simply an -> O

    Edited 2 times, last by Cruvor ().

    Like 2
    Quote from Persil
    Quote from xLutinex

    there are so many mdps and chain dps classes, which do more dmg than every scout.

    And tbh i don't think there is a single mage or warlock main class which is included in this statement.

    The viable/strong mdps classes are only some other combinations sadly. That's why i don't understand this change too.


    Greetings

    One example: Mage/Wl

    Greetings

    Quote from xLutinex

    One example: Mage/Wl

    Mage/wl is stronger than every scout? Where? The combination is strong indeed but can NEVER deal more dmg than every scout in a whole instance.

    Idk if you count the support to this but i mean the damage of the class. And you said many mdps. Who else does more overall dmg than EVERY scout? :/

    I refuse to believe that any mage or wl main can outdps nearly any scout at a boss for example.


    Greetings

    for your question for overall dmg: bard/mage, bard/wl, p/s, m/w, m/s (maybe after next patch), champ/bard, Scout/WL!, Scout/Mage!


    I'm sorry that I cannot tell any warlocks. Sadly we only have mage, bard and scout mdps in guild

    You said stronger than EVERY scout. I can imagine these classes are stronger than some or most scouts but by far not every scout. Especially in single target burst situations most mages and warlocks don't stand any chance.

    Competing? Yeah.


    M/W for example is not stronger than every scout for sure.


    About the other classes:

    Yeah, they are stronger than some scout combinations and stronger than any/most mage or warlock main classes. But im 100% sure if all of these classes would beat every scout - the demand for scout buffs would be WAY higher than atm.


    Greetings

    Quote from Persil

    Who else does more overall dmg than EVERY scout? :/

    you asked this and I answered your question.

    Maybe the dmg scaling of good gear for scout and "bad" gear for mdps vary hard. Just my opinion and I think all endcontent scout players (the 3 who still playing scout xD) have the same


    Anyway the scout push does not change the scout-classes within. So weak scouts stay weak

    Okay, now that we're withdrawing from buffing the scout as a general class, I propose to change to

    S / D by increasing the skill ID 494327 from 21.2% to 29.6%

    S / Wd skill ID 494038 from 50% to 65%

    S / B is to be rebuilt because, as already mentioned, this class is useless, just like S / P


    Thanks for the changes to S / K, it will be fun to play with a distance tank, I think it's an interesting option :)

    Hello,


    S/CH

    no buff needed, its basicly like a warrior scales with more support very good, and with only a wl/m its decent.


    S/WD

    Strongest aoe class on scouts already(together with s/ch in a strong group) i dont think we need to raise that potential even more with the entling change.


    S/D

    Good change but i think you should also increase the Skill ID"494529" to 40% or 45%


    S/B

    It does decent dps like every scout so the increase of the support skills are very good and you can play it as a g2 dps fine and support the group very good. Its not useless because S/P is the same position it can do good dps but not in the main group, its rather used as a support-dps class.


    In general leather is in a good position right now(with some combinations beeing very strong, like s/w) and everything i tested was with people who have better or equal gear like me.


    Kind Regards

    Jockels

    I tested s / wd on KS, HOTO and ROFL and only on ROFL it is worth something, although taking into account other classes it is average against the background of magic connections.

    S / Ch is great in a large support group, unfortunately on 6-man instances, magic calls do much more powerful damage.

    S / B as a good DPS? Seriously? I don't think your tests are objective.

    S / P as a good dps? ConMost average but with a very good eq. Currently, it doesn't even work as a support after the nerf.


    From what I can see is a magic bard or magic connections have a good balance, I see a problem in scouts or rogues but maybe because I play it much more often than you?


    Regards

    Quote from JockelR

    In general leather is in a good position right now(with some combinations beeing very strong, like s/w) and everything i tested was with people who have better or equal gear like me.

    Then you go with low mdps :)

    With b/wl or d/wrl scout have no chance on WB

    ofc im not tell about ROFL bcs this is stupid check scout who have snipe at boss who live 3-4 s?

    when fight is longer than 25s scout is behind

    and u tell all is ok... my God man u need help...




    Edit

    change about all scout

    skill piercing arrow need rework in my opinion

    he should work like earth pulse or second option if he need target when he hit 1st mob he should deal dmg in radius 60

    bcs now he work like earth pulse and i need target idk why

    if u really tested s/wd in hoto and rofl you would know this class is strong enough, maybe you dont play enough or your hate about mages makes you blind.


    S/B and S/P both are not meant to be dealing massive damage, and what i said is they do good dps for the amount of support they bring too the group.


    I guess it doesnt make sense too argue with people who only see a scruti and try to balance their class based on some numbers.

    i don't know how do you expect a balance for these classes in both kalin and rofl at same time, but let me clue you in; burst classes are not designed for early runs of last contents. kalin is not providing you any big attack boost, so burst classes will never work better than sustain classes in kalin except strongest ones. logic is simple: sustain classes have their 90% damage whole time and they have plenty of time. burst classes have their 100% damage every 2-3 mins and they suck if they cant kill EVERYTHING during that buff duration. so in an instance where you can't kill whole room in single burst, your burst class will suck, this is something that is not fixable logically. if you think s/wd is bad in kalin and needs a buff just because of that, just dont play it.


    when new instance will be released, sustain classes will be king again for 3-6 months burst classes will be competing with them once they finish gear. this worked same since eternity and there is literally no logical way to fix this without making every single class in game work in same way. some classes should SUCK in certain times. once you get your next instance gear, your s/wd will be fine in kalin. i would suggest to wait that day patiently as all other burst classes.


    cheers

    Well, magic classes are doing great on 12/6 person instances so it's cool, I fought for a scout to have the same mistake? I can see that the only thing you can write about with magic players here is only about the buff of their classes because the rest for them does not count and they are just trying to spoil the balance :)

    regarding s/b and s/p


    the support aspect should not count in a form, that these classes do low damage. compare it with m/wl, a really strong supporter. S/p and s/b supports less ;)



    Edit: I think a slightly permanent balancing is good

    Quote from Ramer

    Well, magic classes are doing great on 12/6 person instances so it's cool, I fought for a scout to have the same mistake? I can see that the only thing you can write about with magic players here is only about the buff of their classes because the rest for them does not count and they are just trying to spoil the balance :)

    Mate, leathers are literally the only ones talking today. I guess your hate to mages as Jockels say must be true. Mdps have literally a tons of useless warlocks, 1 mwl (not good in overall dmg as some people say...) and maybe 1 ms (btw, the pet change is a nerf, not a buff). Rest are weird cps combinations from others classes but not real mages.


    So, stop the hate on mages. We are not even talking in this conversation you are having with your (oh surprise) 60 reworks/changes/buffs for pdps.

    this is like saying "my r/wl can't compete with a m/r in aoe burst, buff my single target damage by 300% so i can deal some damage in aoe parts too", do you see how illogical this is?


    it is so obvious that you are trying to make something not suitable for certain instance suitable for it while making it overly stronger in other instances. obviously you are missing the main idea of my message; only way to fix this "problem" of yours is making all classes work in same way, same skill concept, same amount of damage, same amount of attack.


    buffing a class because its not suitable for hoto is not a valid reason

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Like 4
    Quote from Ramer
    Quote from Madox

    Mate, leathers are literally the only ones talking today. I guess your hate to mages as Jockels say must be true. Mdps have literally a tons of useless warlocks, 1 mwl (not good in overall dmg as some people say...) and maybe 1 ms (btw, the pet change is a nerf, not a buff). Rest are weird cps combinations from others classes but not real mages.


    So, stop the hate on mages. We are not even talking in this conversation you are having with your (oh surprise) 60 reworks/changes/buffs for pdps.

    You write about useless connections. How many of them are on the skin, looking only at the scout, you have 2 strongest connections in the form of magical eq. S / wl and s / m are very strong even looking at s / w. And why is that so? And when the issue of the physical buff is discussed, it is smoke because it will be too strong. I am not negative towards magicians, I just say that there is an unequal balance because the magicians are simply too strong. If you do not understand it, it is worth going somewhere :)

    Damn they must be insane in your partys. I didn't see a single scout mdps in any random party in 6 months. For me mdps are mages and warlocks, those are the pure mdps. Scouts well, I don't care about them, you can remove them if that makes you happy.


    1. You write about useless connections.

    Those useless connections are 90% of mdps classes LOL.


    2. I just say that there is an unequal balance because the magicians are simply too strong.

    Since noone say a word about this class, lets remind how strong in every single content r/ch is. For how long? 1 year? 2 years? well... scout mdps being op isn't a reason to say that "magicians" are simply too strong. It's like saying first b/wl made all mdps classes totally broken xD.