Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MDNCITAJ

    not my experience, m/k for example in hoto is way above

    hoto is a 6 ppl instance and not a raid instance. I speak about rofl.

    the main difference between champ and mage is: you need more skill for champ to do good damage. Maybe thats why you dont see many champs anymore

    Yep, this is 100% true. There are MAYBE 3 ppl that can actually play champion. But it is as strong as m/k (for example) if not EVEN STRONGER because it profits a lot more from having more supports in the group.


    Mage is kind of a faceroll class, everyone can play it to some extent. Its one of the oldest class designs in mmo history.

    Heyho,

    Quote from johnkopytko

    scrut from m/k 1st 5 skill= AOE

    for me one solution

    BIG nerf aoe dmg

    BUFF single target


    Quote from Madox

    Hmm that means nothing :)

    All mages have static field (in this case the stars skill), thunderstorm, iss aoe... as first skills. Single dmg cast is maybe 5 to 10% of overall scrut in most of them.


    I agree with Madoxx at this point. The main reason is that you nearly don't use ANY single target spells except for plasma arrow only for static field (and 1-2 exceptions like m/r or m/s). Every single target cast is completely useless in trash because the cast time and missing dmg makes it worse than any other aoe option. On most mage classes after you run out of cast speed buffs you just use your aoe macro for offburst because they are better/stronger. (compared to pdd where you always use nearly every skills)


    Greetings

    Quote from MDNCITAJ
    Quote from Cosmo
    Next one. Champion/Warlock. Its just as always... Or atleast i see we should not forget Champions i guess. We had a really long time Champ meta, just remember yourself to Gorge times or Champ/Wl times when Rofl was released. This Class is still hidden OP in normal Partys. Why you buff this class. And why ppl say pls buff this class more.

    The Cooldown of Rune Siphon was reduced by 1 second. That skill is underperforming because it causes a global cooldown and in 99% of the time it is better to use rune impulse or dark energy attack (or whateve its called in english^^). so that skill is not being used very often, by changing the cooldown it doesnt solve this issue.

    raising the %skill dmg would make a difference, or as suggested, take away the global cooldown, in general only a minor change but definitly an improvement of gameplay to the ch/wl


    tbh i dont see your case regarding to ch/wl, definitly not a solid comparission as r/wd or m/k

    I just can say this class i allrdy strong enouth. You just need to know what kind of support you have and when you need to use wich skill. Rune siphon for example is stronger then Dark energy strike if you dont have the dwarfen buff. And its cost focus. You have way to much from that on that class. As every champ you have 2 skills without any gcd you can use. And this class is one of the strongest aoe burst class atm. Also single target is strong as fck. For me i dont find any other class to beat 2 eggs in 1x i go in jerath!. But i think there are rouges who can too and they have less time in then me. This class needs absolutly no buff.

    Hi, after a few tests, I want to say thank you for the latest rogue changes. Now rogue/warrior and rogue/scout are an alternative to rogue/warden and rogue/champ and quite decent. Also rogue/priest is ok but needs a mana-regen healer in group, but then it's a good class too in big trash pulls.

    Only one bad point on rogue/scout is the blood arrow as a melee leather dps :D


    Greetings

    Suggestion for Warlock:


    General: Remove the gcd trigger from Beasthowl(id: 498547).


    Wl/Wd: Power of the Wood Spirit(id: 1490952) still needs a target, which is unlike every other warden class.


    ~kind regards Noodlez


    Edit: Obviously the range of Power of the Wood Spirit(id: 1490952) would have to be reduced in order for that too work. :)

    Quote from Noodlez

    Wl/Wd: Power of the Wood Spirit(id: 1490952) still needs a target, which is unlike every other warden class.

    This would make the class unable to tank anymore (effectively). The wlwd tank pulls from the distance and stays on its mind rune to stack up the damage reduction properly. Making the major aggro aoe source a melee spell, would break the concept of it at all. So I'm against it. However, there is no need to change its functionality imo, since it's a great range aoe.


    Better increase the aggo bonus on willpower construct and add some magic damage bonus to the willpower blade additionally. The problem is that adding dark damage results in a mess, since dark damage can be stacked up to >1300%. But still its basic damage is not that good, so magic damage could fix it I guess. As a tank, it has a good burst, but if you got no cooldowns to use, the aggro sucks.


    Quote from Noodlez

    General: Remove the gcd trigger from Beasthowl(id: 498547).

    I agree on that. The gcd is very annoying, even as a warlock heal I can't use it for the slow, bcz it proccs gcd, which is unfortunate. And as a tank, i waste a gcd just for triggering a non-aggro aoe.

    Quote from Zyrex
    Quote from Noodlez

    Wl/Wd: Power of the Wood Spirit(id: 1490952) still needs a target, which is unlike every other warden class.

    This would make the class unable to tank anymore (effectively). The wlwd tank pulls from the distance and stays on its mind rune to stack up the damage reduction properly. Making the major aggro aoe source a melee spell, would break the concept of it at all. So I'm against it. However, there is no need to change its functionality imo, since it's a great range aoe.


    Better increase the aggo bonus on willpower construct and add some magic damage bonus to the willpower blade additionally. The problem is that adding dark damage results in a mess, since dark damage can be stacked up to >1300%. But still its basic damage is not that good, so magic damage could fix it I guess. As a tank, it has a good burst, but if you got no cooldowns to use, the aggro sucks.

    Very valid point.


    But i dont think there many ppl playing this class as a tank, you are probably the only one.

    Not to stir the conversation away from the WL-Stuff, but I think it would be cool if the Ch/P could get some buffs/changes so the class isn't trash.


    -> Reduce Light Pulse's Mana costs by 3% and get rid of the heal

    -> Remove the GCD of the rune energy consecration

    -> Let divine retribution reduce the cooldown of REC instead

    -> Let suicidal advance be cast while playing instruments or rework it completely to not interfere with knowledge of distruction (ch/d)


    Class chugs mana pots like none other and still kinda sucks. Magic Fruit Pastry doesn't really help this either, it's 4%+377 of your mana WITH the food active every GCD in trash.


    Would be cool to get the class into a useful state.


    Have a blessed day,
    Midan

    DR/WL BALANCING


    It´s like i already said about the dr/wl. This class really did not need more weapon dmg. It is really good that you buffed this class a little bit cause there are a lot of classes that do more dmg but the way that you balanced was not good. the dr/wl has already a high weapon dmg. In tikal and inferno dr/wl do toons of dmg because you reach the mdef of the bosses with your mat and they havent a high critical resistance. so you already did almost only critical hit in this 2 inis. if you buff the critical rate the dmg wont explode in Tikal and Inferno. The dmg in tikal and inferno was already good and now its one of the best classes in this inis becuase the weapon dmg is a little bit to high. but for rofl its not a good balance. The dmg output in rofl often vary. its because of the critical resistance is higher at the roflbosses and the lvl of the bosses is 107. If i dont do critical hits at the organ or at balton i do 5kk hits if i do critical hits i do 20kk or more. So sometimes i dont do any critical hits and do in burst 100kk and sometimes i do in the same time a lot of critical hits and then i do 250 kk dmg at Balton. Its luck how much dmg i do at the bosses because of the low critical rate and the high critical resistance. as example rogue has the possibility to do only critical hits at start. that why this class usually do a similar dmg if the buff is up in burst. Im not an expert about rogues classes but i often see that the same player do a constant high dmg at balton in scrutinizer.

    Delete the 10% more weapondmg that you buffed on dr/wl please and add something like 5k critical rate instead of this, A lot of classes that do dmg in rofl have a higher critical rate. it´s an important point to do dmg in Rofl and dr/wl miss the critical rate not the weapon dmg or mat.


    Ty for reading my Idea please check it. I play this class a lot and try to analyse it to balance in rofl. Im not a dev but i play this game 10 years, maybe it will work.


    best reagards

    Itachi

    Scouts have the same crit rate like druid/wl and have also the problem with crit or non crit snipe. but overall, the damage is always the same. the game don't need more classes with skills like rogue and mages, which doubles the crit. and every dps class with golden gear can reach more than 25k crit easily

    can u make priest set skill on 80lv to increase all crit damage not only magical?? and to make it perma buff like blood arrow that when u activate it, it will remain untill u recast it with 10s cd

    Then there is the possibility to nerf the rouges to lower critical rate also for a BALANCING. but i didnt said that because i dont want to be toxic against the rogues. instead of that i tried to find a fair solution withouth beeeing toxic. for a balancing to a similar dmg as dr/wl. its annoying if you have no reliable damage only in the highest ini. its not what the word balancing say. and if the scout have the same problem its possible to balance them too. post an idea for this class. i think you have a good knowledge about leather classes. Maybe scouts can get also a higher critical rate and a little bit lower weapondmg or lower % to skills but give a lot critical rate instead of that so dmg will be not vary as much as it did before. i have no good knowledge about the leatherclasses its only an example. maybe it wont work. maybe it will. played a few month wow and i like that there a lot of classes that do similar dmg with same gear. it was a really good experience. and i only can say it again. thats what the word balancing means in my opinion.

    Quote from orbit
    Quote from xLutinex

    Scouts have the same crit rate like druid/wl and have also the problem with crit or non crit snipe. but overall, the damage is always the same. the game don't need more classes with skills like rogue and mages, which doubles the crit. and every dps class with golden gear can reach more than 25k crit easily

    Then there is the possibility to nerf the rouges to lower critical rate also for a BALANCING. but i didnt said that because i dont want to be toxic against the rogues. instead of that i tried to find a fair solution withouth beeeing toxic. for a balancing to a similar dmg as dr/wl. its annoying if you have no reliable damage only in the highest ini. its not what the word balancing say. and if the scout have the same problem its possible to balance them too. post an idea for this class. i think you have a good knowledge about leather classes. Maybe scouts can get also a higher critical rate and a little bit lower weapondmg or lower % to skills but give a lot critical rate instead of that so dmg will be not vary as much as it did before. i have no good knowledge about the leatherclasses its only an example. maybe it wont work. maybe it will. played a few month wow and i like that there a lot of classes that do similar dmg with same gear. it was a really good experience. and i only can say it again. thats what the word balancing means in my opinion.

    This "problem" is not a problem. the average critical hit rate with standard golden gear in rofl is above 80% in a full run. That's enough and it wouldn't change anything if you get 5k more crit.

    And btw as I said. Rogues AND mages have a skill which doubles their crit for a short time. if you have less than 20k crit with golden gear, then it is maybe only t7 or something like that. with around 25k you should have around 80% in a full run. If you hit 1 boss with for example 60% normal hits, it is a kind of "unlucky" that every class can have

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from orbit

    Then there is the possibility to nerf the rouges to lower critical rate also for a BALANCING. but i didnt said that because i dont want to be toxic against the rogues. instead of that i tried to find a fair solution withouth beeeing toxic. for a balancing to a similar dmg as dr/wl. its annoying if you have no reliable damage only in the highest ini. its not what the word balancing say. and if the scout have the same problem its possible to balance them too. post an idea for this class. i think you have a good knowledge about leather classes. Maybe scouts can get also a higher critical rate and a little bit lower weapondmg or lower % to skills but give a lot critical rate instead of that so dmg will be not vary as much as it did before. i have no good knowledge about the leatherclasses its only an example. maybe it wont work. maybe it will. played a few month wow and i like that there a lot of classes that do similar dmg with same gear. it was a really good experience. and i only can say it again. thats what the word balancing means in my opinion.

    This "problem" is not a problem. the average critical hit rate with standard golden gear in rofl is above 80% in a full run. That's enough and it wouldn't change anything if you get 5k more crit.

    And btw as I said. Rogues AND mages have a skill which doubles their crit for a short time. if you have less than 20k crit with golden gear, then it is maybe only t7 or something like that. with around 25k you should have around 80% in a full run. If you hit 1 boss with for example 60% normal hits, it is a kind of "unlucky" that every class can have

    Your are right with that the dmg all over the ini is good balanced with the critical rate. 5k can be really to low and make not a big difference. its only a calculation. but what i mean is a problem with the balance in the burst. My first idea was to give the old skill back to the druide with only critical hits for 5 sec. (withouth global cooldown pls) The burst is a problem as dr/wl only in rofl because of the low crits and the vary dmg. its only in this ini. I sometimes do 1 critical skill and 7 non critical and sometimes i do 7 critical hits and 1 non critical hit on balton as example when i do 8 spells. I only mean it vary to much. yes a lot of classes have the same problem but they are balanced in another way to do good dmg and there are classes that balanced like i wish. So i think my first idea is the best to balance the burst.


    Implement a skill to do only critical hits for 5 seconds (withouth global cooldown pls)it should be a 5 min skill (the druide havent a 5 min skill) for SINGLE target spells and delete the 10% more magical dmg that the dr/wl got last patch. The new 5 min skill should be for burst on bosses and only sometimes for the trash. It should be only a skill for single target spells or the dmg on trash will explode and its not balanced after that. Its should be only to give a constant burst at start and dont do one third or the half of the best burst classes on Balton. The dmg wont be explode in tikal and inferno cause you already do the most hits critical and the dmg wont be explode on balton because if i you only do critical hits i still do less dmg than a rogue´s with similar gear it happend a few times in rofl. 5 sec is not the full bursttime on balton also. the randomgroups often need 20-30 sec to burst him. It depends on group. So you will do a few non critical hits too at the end of the burst if you are unlucky. i think this can work. please PLAYERNET try it. Delete the 10% magical dmg that you boosted to the dr/wl. he didnt need 10% more magical dmg also has enough magical dmg and try to give a (5 min skill) for 5 sec. running time for only critical hits on SINGLE Target´s. I dont want an overpowered class and i dont want to do more dmg than the rogues or the other best dps classes but i dont want to do only one third of them int the burst =(.

    OK i say it in an other way: Why need every class to be a good single target burst class? It is good, that some classes have strong aoe, strong sustain or strong burst, but not all at once. If dmg overall is balanced, there is no need to push single burst, because it is maybe not intended to have single burst for this class

    Quote from xLutinex

    OK i say it in an other way: Why need every class to be a good single target burst class? It is good, that some classes have strong aoe, strong sustain or strong burst, but not all at once. If dmg overall is balanced, there is no need to push single burst, because it is maybe not intended to have single burst for this class

    i understand what you mean, but a lot of classes have everything. Strong aoe and strong singletaget and also good cc and some classes not. I agree with you if you have a very strong aoe class that is stronger than other classes in aoe. Class like this dont need a good single target burst, but dr/wl hasnt this aoe. he has a good aoe but its only an avenrage aoe if you compare it with the best dps classes that also have a strong single target burst. why some classes should have both and some classes only one of them?

    Quote from orbit
    Quote from xLutinex

    OK i say it in an other way: Why need every class to be a good single target burst class? It is good, that some classes have strong aoe, strong sustain or strong burst, but not all at once. If dmg overall is balanced, there is no need to push single burst, because it is maybe not intended to have single burst for this class

    i understand what you mean, but a lot of classes have everything. Strong aoe and strong singletaget and also good cc and some classes not. I agree with you if you have a very strong aoe class that is stronger than other classes in aoe. Class like this dont need a good single target burst, but dr/wl hasnt this aoe. he has a good aoe but its only an avenrage aoe if you compare it with the best dps classes that also have a strong single target burst. why some classes should have both and some classes only one of them?

    Do I understand correctly? Do you want to rebuild the entire class to do more dmg on one single boss?

    D/R

    I played this class after recent changes a bit and figured out that the changes were worth it. Finally the class can compete with other dps classes again. However, the overall damage in hoto and rofl is about 75% of my mage/knight (post-patch) and about 70% of my mage/scout. Haven't compared it to my S/M yet but will do soon.


    So I think, D/R is good as it is now. True, the damage isn't as good as a mage, but druid has a lot more utility and with some buff adaption it can be used as a really good offheal.


    Wl/D

    I also tested this class as a healer without any healer addon and it worked really good in hoto. Had no problems at all with it, even since I had no exp at all as a healer. I think, the class is really strong and maybe one of the best options for healers in hoto, if you got a druid or priest DPS. I love how we got such a great pool of different classes that work well on specific combinations (especially in hoto). :love:

    Quote from Merkur
    Quote from orbit

    i understand what you mean, but a lot of classes have everything. Strong aoe and strong singletaget and also good cc and some classes not. I agree with you if you have a very strong aoe class that is stronger than other classes in aoe. Class like this dont need a good single target burst, but dr/wl hasnt this aoe. he has a good aoe but its only an avenrage aoe if you compare it with the best dps classes that also have a strong single target burst. why some classes should have both and some classes only one of them?

    Do I understand correctly? Do you want to rebuild the entire class to do more dmg on one single boss?

    nono only want a lttle bit more crit at start at the burst thats all because the dmg vary to much in rofl at balton scroll up then you can read what we wrote before about that topic.

    Thanks for sharing with us planned change log <3


    Please understand finally that r/wrl must get aoe!

    About r/p awakening is not strong, usefull skill, maybe change this skill to give 20 stacks, 5 more than normally?

    Hoi ,


    • Changed Blood Poison to increase energy recovery rate by 30%.

    I hope this is a typo and the energy recovery rate increase will be added additionally to the original effect of Blood Poison (Bloodarrows increases Physical dmg not ranged dmg) . Otherwise r/s will most likely be useless


    Greetings

    If you identify a UFO as a UFO , then it becomes an FO. Unless it has landed , then it is simply an -> O

    Like 3

    Heyho,


    i just wanted to ask if you mean this skill..?


    "Mage/Warrior

    • Fixed Meditative Current effect was possible to be refreshed unintentionally."


    The Skill you mean is "499588" "Meditation Path" after 10s of the Buff (623146) you can refresh it and always cast while walking. Just use a fireball every 10s ^^


    Greetings

    I think they should boost the dr/r also to a similar dmg lvl like a mage, maybe only 10% less. Its also possible to take a mage with a heal secclass and you will be an offheal with full magedmg (m/dr) (m/pr). The utilities are limited. You only can do 1 thing at the same time, you need to choose between heal or full dmg. if you cast a heal spell you cant cast a dmg skill at the same time, only the regeneration is possible at the same time. It´s cool that you can swap between this 2 things but if you dont statted with wis and extra healnonstats the heal is smth like 5 times less than a mainheal. i think 70% less of a mage is to less 10% or 15% because of this yes but not 30%.

    Die Klasse ist komplett basierend auf Glück. Wenn du jetzt Schaden draufpackst, hast du nachwievor das Problem, dass nicht-critten deutlich mehr schaden kostet als sogar auf jeder anderen Klasse. d/r mit etwas Kritglück ist im Einzelziel vielleicht minimal schlechter als der Magier/Hexer, die vmtl. stärkste, magische Einzelklasse die es gibt. Mehr Schaden bringt's da nicht. Mehr crit, bringt da deutlich mehr.

    Dazu kommt leider noch, dass du als D/R inhärent support mitbringst einfach weil du ein Druide bist - etwas das die Power ohne weiteres ausgleicht. Ein Mini-Zwergenbier alle paar Sekunden boosted jede Klasse enorm, keine Ausnahme. Dein Heiler könnte auf einen WL/D oder einen WD/P wechseln um mehr support in die Gruppe(n) zu bringen, da die Druidenbuffs bereits vorhanden sind. In diesen Kombinationen sollte der DPS der gesamten Gruppe deutlich steigen - klar bist du dann im direktvergleich immernoch unter den anderen DDs, jedoch ist der Anstieg der Gesamtgruppe mehr als genug um das auszugleichen.

    Balancing ist nicht nur ein Vergleich von Damage - und der D/R ist alles in allem gut gebalanced, da er Support, notfalls etwas Heilung und Schaden zugleich bringt.

    Es ist ein bisschen so wie ein Abendessen mit Freunden: einer bringt den Braten, der andere die Knödel und du die Sauce. Joah, der Braten ist an sich geil, die Knödel auch. Sauce alleine würde aber keiner Essen - macht aber alles andere um sich herum besser ohne der Star der Show zu sein.

    ENG:
    The class is balanced around luck. Adding more damage will not fix the randomness problem, where a non crit takes off much more damage than other classes. D/R with a little bit of above-overage crit is probably only slightly worse than the best single target magic class, the M/WL. More damage doesn't fix the "issue". More crit would.


    In addition, the D/R has inherent supporting potential simply from being a druid. This alone would bridge the power gap, as the mini-ale you give your party brings much more damage to your party than another class could. Your heal can swap into a more supportive class (WL/D or WD/P) for that extra damage. Of course, the direct comparison will show you're still "weaker" than other classes, but you bring so much to the table that removing that class from the party not a good idea.


    Balancing isn't just comparing numbers. D/R is pretty well balanced as the class is a bit of a jack of all traits while still dealing passable damage. I'm not going to translate my german analogy, it was cringe enough the first time you read it, regardless of understanding it or not.