Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    I only use m/s, m/k and m/ch, and none of those you say. Guess from my list m/s is the only one good tho xD.


    Im confused, you say:

    So I generally don't like generalisations like "All Mages are so op" because that is simply not true.

    There are some Mages *cough* Mage/Scout *cough* that are too strong currently but definitly not all of them.


    But few lines before you ask for static field nerf? Both things are the opposite to each other. If this nerf would go trough, some combos will need a buff.

    I agree that some classes need a buff after that. But this skill deals ,imo, too much damage. You could only use static field and nothing else and would still deal a ton of damage, while other aoe skills , like purgatory fire, no one uses because its just useless af. But true, if this would be nerfed some mages definitly would need a buff (maybe thats why they don't nerf it idk.)

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 3

    I dont know if or how you should nerv static field.


    In my opinion the 2 "problem childs" are mage/druid and mage/scout. The main aoe dmg for mage/druid comes from lavablade and not from static field. The mage/scout has an op pet and is able to spamm lots of skills in addition to static field. The classes that only or mainly rely on static field (like m/p or m/ch) arent too strong.


    I am open for other opinions tho. xD


    ~kind regards Noodlez

    Regarding Champion/Warlock. I've tested the class over the last days and must say it underperforms compared to most Mages, Rogues & Warriors.

    In a slow run during which I was able to build and maintain 7 Forge stacks and profit from the halved Indomitable Spirit cooldown, I was barely able to keep up the lesser geared Rogues (t18/14/13 vs t14-15/10-12). This roughly equates to ~15% less damage compared to R/S and R/W with equal gear.

    Against M/S and M/W I wasn't able to hold my ground at all (20% less damage at least, compared to a Mage with roughly equal gear).

    In a faster paced run Ch/Wl is even worse, since building stacks in AoE situations is nearly impossible and the gcd of Indomitable Spirit becomes a major drawback, since it doesn't deal any damage on its own. The strength scaling reduction becomes much more noticeable this way.

    I'm aware that Ch/M is still a strong and competitive choice for Champion dps and Ch/Wl doesn't need to be buffed on the level of other top dps classes.

    However, I think a buff would be reasonable and much appreciated. I suggest increasing the attack speed increment of Endless Pulse from it's current 9,2% to 15% and removing the gcd from Indomitable Spirit.

    Scout/Priest skill buff "Dums of War" ID: 493010 do not have 15 sec CD after skill buff ends as it is mentioned in skill description. Plz fix description or skill function.

    Priest/Scout Fairy skill "Frost Halo" ID: 493278 gives it's 10% Elemental Damage increament to whole raid members instead of only owner. plz fix skill effect


    greetings

    Quote from Serenadae

    I'm aware that Ch/M is still a strong and competitive choice for Champion dps and Ch/Wl doesn't need to be buffed on the level of other top dps classes.

    However, I think a buff would be reasonable and much appreciated.

    I think its quiet sad that you only see ch/m as only champ dps class. I think only buffing /wl isnt enough, but instead buff /warrior, /scout and /rogue aswell, so champion can exist in the game as fully dps class again. But PLEASE plan ahead what youre aiming for on each classcombo. One class more aoe focused, while the other one might be more singletarget focused.


    Its sad to see that the main reason why a champ is in the party is the /druid for its support (dont know about /knight as tank). Would love to see more champ dps instead of just a single one for a whole class.

    Quote from Shino
    Quote from Serenadae

    I'm aware that Ch/M is still a strong and competitive choice for Champion dps and Ch/Wl doesn't need to be buffed on the level of other top dps classes.

    However, I think a buff would be reasonable and much appreciated.

    I think its quiet sad that you only see ch/m as only champ dps class. I think only buffing /wl isnt enough, but instead buff /warrior, /scout and /rogue aswell, so champion can exist in the game as fully dps class again. But PLEASE plan ahead what youre aiming for on each classcombo. One class more aoe focused, while the other one might be more singletarget focused.


    Its sad to see that the main reason why a champ is in the party is the /druid for its support (dont know about /knight as tank). Would love to see more champ dps instead of just a single one for a whole class.

    The main problem is that the overwhelming majority only plays the best class combination available to them. One combination will always stick out and thus will be played.

    Sadly many nerfs where directed to Champion in general, instead of nerfing the combinations specifically that were overperforming, which left certain secondary classes in a bad shape.

    Moreover, Ch/W and Ch/P are two underwhelming combinations that just don't see play. Ch/W is a bad tank who nobody in his right mind would choose over Ch/K. Same with Ch/P, not really viable as a dps compared to other combinations and heavily outclassed as both tank and supporter by /K and /D respectively. Those two are in dire need of a rework in my opinion. Ideally one of the two should be made a dps, to increase the amount of combinations a Champion can choose from as a damage dealer.

    Wow. If you only play 3 combos, don't say only m/s has strong single target. Would be the same if I say only r/s as leather is good. Rest is totally trash because I don't play them...

    We tried CH/p as dps before the last patch and it was nearly as strong as CH/m. Should be equal now. The main problem I saw is the aggro in trash phases of CH/p. I would say nearly no Knight can hold the aggro. If the CH/p skills wouldn't generate aggro in demo mode, it would be a fine class in my observations

    I would like to say some words about champs tank, because i see that u are mainly talking about which is good in dps ;)

    So, firstly i would like to add, that i was playing on champs with full dps eq (!).


    CH/K - the best tanking champ class, which can wear some plate to boost parry rate, great survivability, lack of buffs for party. With ability of Holy Strike to hit 3 targets and additional Holy Roar aoe - makes it good to keep good amount of aggro on mobs in groups (even more with +aggro from plate set). I was playing on it while i had a plate eq, it was really pleasant to play.


    And now, atleast 2 of the following class should be pushed into tank class.

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    CH/P - medium survivalibity (low number of parry rate - only possibility to wear chain, but 8% boost to stamina), one of the best party buffing champs with +21% dmg every 1.5 min and -32% obtained dmg every 4 min. No problems with aggro, even in bigger groups because of spammable Light Pulse (but need to keep some MP potions in backpack for that :D ). For me, if i would have a more tanky chain eq, i would play it as a tank rather than CH/K.

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    CH/M

    Surprise! Everyone is looking at his dps, ok. But i see him as a potential good tank.

    Firstly 70 elite skill - -10% obtained phys dmg all the time,

    + 21% obtained healing all the time,

    Void Armor - less useful at dps, more useful at tank, -45% AS of attacking mobs in near - always good.

    Threat good at single target (well, like on every champ), but... there are problems with keeping aggro on groups of mobs. We can only rely on general skills which is imprisonment pulse (because of the nerfs and lack of any aggro multiplifier on it its really difficult to generate enough aggro - even on full chain with nearly 800-900k patt - to keep mobs on you. Only way is to use Rune Overload, but not always its a possible with his rage eating.

    If u would go to change him more in tanky class, i would suggest to change one of the elites, for ex. Rapid Spread or Suppression Offensive - or even both, to has a multiplifier aggro. But also its good to stay with a clearly dps class - no problema.

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    CH/W

    And here we are...

    70 elite skill - -30% (!) obtained phys dmg all the time

    Determination Rune - 49% of max HP absorption, ADDITIONAL -21% obtained dmg for 18 sec every 30 sec,

    Defensive Formation +54% phys deff for 30 sec every 60 sec...

    Great survivalibity, but lack of aoe skill (!), wanted to say lack of skill with multiplifier aggro, but... there is no ANY aoe skill. Not saying about imprisonment pulse which i described in CH/M section. Ah.. and whirlwind with 30 sec cd and 50 rage cost... nothing more to say...

    My suggestion is to change Arc Stike (level 15 elite) to hit multiple targets, it has already multiplifier aggro, you can also add any rage cost to it.


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    Summarizing, CH/P and CH/W should be kept as a tank classes (but need some upgrades, especially CH/W). CH/M can be, but dosent need to be tank.

    I dont want to write anything about other champ classes, because CH/R, CH/S, CH/WD and CH/WRL (and probably Ch/M) should be categorised as a dps classes.


    Question: why i didnt write anything about Ch/D... I think that class should be just a support class viable for chain users as it is. Some heal powers, some boosts for party/raid - i think idea to add any tank or dps ability is pointless.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Serenadae

    The main problem is that the overwhelming majority only plays the best class combination available to them. One combination will always stick out and thus will be played.

    Sadly many nerfs where directed to Champion in general, instead of nerfing the combinations specifically that were overperforming, which left certain secondary classes in a bad shape.

    Moreover, Ch/W and Ch/P are two underwhelming combinations that just don't see play. Ch/W is a bad tank who nobody in his right mind would choose over Ch/K. Same with Ch/P, not really viable as a dps compared to other combinations and heavily outclassed as both tank and supporter by /K and /D respectively. Those two are in dire need of a rework in my opinion. Ideally one of the two should be made a dps, to increase the amount of combinations a Champion can choose from as a damage dealer.

    We tried CH/p as dps before the last patch and it was nearly as strong as CH/m. Should be equal now. The main problem I saw is the aggro in trash phases of CH/p. I would say nearly no Knight can hold the aggro. If the CH/p skills wouldn't generate aggro in demo mode, it would be a fine class in my observations

    Interesting, maybe the 30% patch made this class more viable. However, I'm quite positive it can't match Ch/M. Gonna test this myself over the next days.

    Still, Ch/P is not a well rounded combination in my opinion. The rotation feels clunky, Reviving Blast is useless and the elite skills in general are all over the place, mixing dps, support and tank abilities. I'd wish for are more clear line regarding the role of Ch/P.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Serenadae

    The main problem is that the overwhelming majority only plays the best class combination available to them. One combination will always stick out and thus will be played.

    Sadly many nerfs where directed to Champion in general, instead of nerfing the combinations specifically that were overperforming, which left certain secondary classes in a bad shape.

    Moreover, Ch/W and Ch/P are two underwhelming combinations that just don't see play. Ch/W is a bad tank who nobody in his right mind would choose over Ch/K. Same with Ch/P, not really viable as a dps compared to other combinations and heavily outclassed as both tank and supporter by /K and /D respectively. Those two are in dire need of a rework in my opinion. Ideally one of the two should be made a dps, to increase the amount of combinations a Champion can choose from as a damage dealer.

    We tried CH/p as dps before the last patch and it was nearly as strong as CH/m. Should be equal now. The main problem I saw is the aggro in trash phases of CH/p. I would say nearly no Knight can hold the aggro. If the CH/p skills wouldn't generate aggro in demo mode, it would be a fine class in my observations

    I tried that class in the past, for me the biggest problem was the mana 😅 maybe now with priest/druid and other healer mana regs, it will be better maybe. But yes the Aggro seems also to high for a dps.

    Quote from Blaxx
    Quote from xLutinex

    We tried CH/p as dps before the last patch and it was nearly as strong as CH/m. Should be equal now. The main problem I saw is the aggro in trash phases of CH/p. I would say nearly no Knight can hold the aggro. If the CH/p skills wouldn't generate aggro in demo mode, it would be a fine class in my observations

    I tried that class in the past, for me the biggest problem was the mana 😅 maybe now with priest/druid and other healer mana regs, it will be better maybe. But yes the Aggro seems also to high for a dps.

    If theres a class/ are classes in the raid which use a lot of mana we usually run with 2 heals that can restore mana so its not really a problem :D

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 1
    Quote from Laisha
    Quote from Blaxx

    I tried that class in the past, for me the biggest problem was the mana 😅 maybe now with priest/druid and other healer mana regs, it will be better maybe. But yes the Aggro seems also to high for a dps.

    If theres a class/ are classes in the raid which use a lot of mana we usually run with 2 heals that can restore mana so its not really a problem :D

    Oh you do a Great Job, I am sure 😉

    Some thoughts about the Knight class these days...


    I was playing the warden and warlock tank these days, sometimes even warrior. So now I went back to Knight once again, in order to compare the K/X classes to the others. I have no idea what happened over the last patches, but I had really huge issues to hold aggro in trash phases against mage classes. In the past that was working much better - maybe it's because I'm not that much into knight these days than before, but it felt like not that fluent as I remembered from 2-3 months ago.


    Also if it comes to support of the raid, I personally don't feel the knight anymore. Utility like Crowd Control is much more important and only Knight/Champ can handle that on an equal way. K/M is entirely useless, since W/P overwrites its debuff. Most other tanks are either selfish (which makes them also useless in my eyes, bcz tanking basically is just easy) or are worse than other classes. Before you take a Knight/Scout with you, you can rely on a Champ/Priest, which is way more useful for kind of the same utility.


    In terms of damage sustain, the class in general needs to work more for the same damage mitigation, compared to warden tanks. Warden just summons an immortal pet that makes him parry every hit received. Resulting in the missing necessity of a lot of def, like champ or knight needs, since you can't parry 100% of your input. With only 2.5-3kk pdef you're good to go as a warden. Also damage mitigation of knights is quite worse since the adaption patch of mitigation formular.


    So in my eyes, it's not at all necessary to play a knight if you want to tank these days. It's way more useful for the raid to have either a warden, a warrior, a champ or even a warlock tank. Knight needs much more support, more utility and more aggro, especially in AoE, which is much worse than any other tank out there. If a dps has forgotten to remove its hatred rune, a warden can still hold aggro against it, but a knight has lesser chance. I mean, it's still possible, but not with such a low effort. If nothing changes for knights, I will probably keep playing warden and warlock tank, which are much more useful in our runs, but is kinda unfortunate, because I really like the knight class. UwU

    the w/p debuff should be changed into 2 separate debuffs on target. 1 for dmg reduction and 1 that you need for your slash of this class. The first debuff could be overwritten by K/M debuff, so it would not useless to play k/m If w/p is in group

    Quote

    So in my eyes, it's not at all necessary to play a knight if you want to tank these days. It's way more useful for the raid to have either a warden, a warrior, a champ or even a warlock tank. Knight needs much more support, more utility and more aggro, especially in AoE, which is much worse than any other tank out there. If a dps has forgotten to remove its hatred rune, a warden can still hold aggro against it, but a knight has lesser chance. I mean, it's still possible, but not with such a low effort. If nothing changes for knights, I will probably keep playing warden and warlock tank, which are much more useful in our runs, but is kinda unfortunate, because I really like the knight class. UwU

    Sure, that's why everybody is tanking as Knight/Mage these days.

    Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.

    Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.

    Quote from Serenadae

    Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.

    Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.

    Well.. if one of the best supporter classes for rofl is overwriting the major support utility a tank class has, it's reasonable that ppl keep playing it, because in random runs you usually don't have access to a w/p, but it's not a good class in general. In our guild runs with an optimized raid setup, a K/M is just useless, as said. If the debuff is changed to overwrite W/P or even stack, sure, K/M would be very useful. But that's just one single class. Thinking about all the other knight combos, I stay at my statement.

    Quote from Serenadae
    Quote

    So in my eyes, it's not at all necessary to play a knight if you want to tank these days. It's way more useful for the raid to have either a warden, a warrior, a champ or even a warlock tank. Knight needs much more support, more utility and more aggro, especially in AoE, which is much worse than any other tank out there. If a dps has forgotten to remove its hatred rune, a warden can still hold aggro against it, but a knight has lesser chance. I mean, it's still possible, but not with such a low effort. If nothing changes for knights, I will probably keep playing warden and warlock tank, which are much more useful in our runs, but is kinda unfortunate, because I really like the knight class. UwU

    Sure, that's why everybody is tanking as Knight/Mage these days.

    Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.

    Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.

    Exactly. I choose always Knight/m If no w/p is in group, regardless of low trash aggro. Mages and warriors have enough crowd control for my tankstyle^^

    Quote from Zyrex
    Quote from Serenadae

    Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.

    Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.

    Well.. if one of the best supporter classes for rofl is overwriting the major support utility a tank class has, it's reasonable that ppl keep playing it, because in random runs you usually don't have access to a w/p, but it's not a good class in general. In our guild runs with an optimized raid setup, a K/M is just useless, as said. If the debuff is changed to overwrite W/P or even stack, sure, K/M would be very useful. But that's just one single class. Thinking about all the other knight combos, I stay at my statement.

    If I don't look at aggro, following knights are good in my eyes:

    K/m : good damage migitation

    K/D: good group support with patk/matk and multiple shields for raid

    K/p: group damage buff + def buff for raid + damage migitation buff for group

    K/w: best support if you want to burst a boss

    K/s: damage buff for group + damage migitation for mob groups

    K/CH: crowd control + mini single target support


    Greetings

    Quote from Zyrex
    Quote from Serenadae

    Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.

    Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.

    Well.. if one of the best supporter classes for rofl is overwriting the major support utility a tank class has, it's reasonable that ppl keep playing it, because in random runs you usually don't have access to a w/p, but it's not a good class in general. In our guild runs with an optimized raid setup, a K/M is just useless, as said. If the debuff is changed to overwrite W/P or even stack, sure, K/M would be very useful. But that's just one single class. Thinking about all the other knight combos, I stay at my statement.

    Regarding K/M buff being overwritten, Lutine made a good proposal.

    Knight/Rogue and Knight/Warrior both have increased light damage taken debuffs, which are very potent when paired with the right classes. Knight/Druid has a increased healing taken buff for the group. Knight/Priest has a battle rezz. You said yourself Knight/Champion has a pull/stun.

    I don't see lack of utility.


    Edit: Seems like Lutine was faster:D

    Quote from Serenadae

    I don't see lack of utility.

    Agree. But there is still the fact, that most utility is just not important for an optimized raid that already has a huge overdamage. Even after the overall damage nerf, I see mobs and bosses drop in seconds. So speeding this up more, is nonsense in my eyes, which is eliminating half of tank utilities at once. Also other classes are more viable for tanking. I don't see any reason to play Knight tank these days, if there are wardens and warlock tanks available. That's just it.

    Hey,:)


    I'm really pleased with the champion changes, but I still have a suggestion. Would it be possible to set the Fearless Shot(id:1490546) cooldown back to 2 seconds at the Champion/Scout, instead of 3 seconds. The way the class is now, it does very good damage and can easily compete with all other chain classes or is even better. The only thing I find a pity is that this skill used to be triggerable every 2 seconds and was the trademark of this class and it could be played very smoothly. If the cooldown would be lowered, I recommend to reduce the damage of the shot by 70%* (the damage from the rune pulse remains). In addition, it comes from time to time, to stupid situations with this skill, since he uses the chain drive, although this is not intented (I suspect at least). In addition, the skill description of chain drive does not say that a Fearless Shot also uses it. After all, it's not a cast and I would be happy if these small changes would revive the playing style of this class. Don't forget, it's all about the fact that it's fun to play this class again and it doesn't feel like this class is missing something in this one second. And I would like to mention again, the damage of this class is completely fine as it is now.


    *Instead of 2.700.000, just 810.000 for example.


    Edit: Moreover, it would be cool if you would remove the global cooldown from the wrist attack(id:1490697) so that you can use it effectively. In addition, it would support the group.


    Greetings Ryzek:thumbup:

    Hi,


    after the latest changes in the planned patch notes, I was at first totally angry and disappointed. It didn't changed till now ^^


    Why?

    No leather changes? (pushes)

    In fact:

    I tested today, because I read the patch notes, my best Scout (Scout/Rogue) against a Champ/Scout, Mage/Druid and Mage/Scout. Warlock/Mage, Champ/Druid and Scout/priest.

    Overall in RoFL the champ/scout, mage/druid and mage/scout beat my Scout/Rogue.


    Addtional details: I have by far the best gear of all the classes. T18 weapon, T13/T14 gear + full XIII Runes.

    Champ/scout and Mage/Druid have T16 weapons, T11/T12 gear + XII Runes. Mage/scout has T15 weapon, not completed T13 gear (but nearly) and not complete XII-Runes (but nearly).


    Because Scouts have a bit more single target burst than champs or mages, I was on top at Balton and did ~50kk more damage than rank 2 dps at this boss.



    Furthermore in comparing with Champ/scout I have the 4%+8% pets (he have 3% + 6%), I have the 1% dmg-card AND a potion which increase my damage by 3%.

    In comparing with MAge/druid I have the potion which increase my damage by 3%

    In comparing with the Mage/scout, I have nothing additional.


    Besides. The Result is constant always the same. Scouts isn't "strong" in any situation or in other words: For every situation there are far better classes.


    Summarize: Is this fair for me as a scout? No. That's why I hate playing scout nowadays. With such gear differences and buff differences, the scout is overall ~15% or even more weaker than mages (in this case mage/druid and mage/scout) or the champ/scout.

    The other scout classes are even weaker overall, because Scout/Rogue is good on trash. But on bosses I got the vampire arrows of 2 other classes on the boss (stronger than Snipe in this case) and couldn't beat them anyway...


    Rogues can even burst better than scouts. Rogues can even do more damage in AOE (burst AND sustain). Why should anyone play scout? :/


    As a Scout you totally rely on your Arrow of Essence and Blood Arrow. Blood Arrow is perma active, yes but has in some situations the bad effect of HP drain. But Arrow of Essence is a buff with 5 minutes CD. without this buff active, you cannot hold the ground against other classes.


    Edit: https://gyazo.com/82cb460ca784091bf8e9ec2abdca1838

    Laisha was even dead on multiple phases and switched class on some point and misses a bit trash...

    Greetings