Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Ich habe mich leider für einen Krieger als Klasse entschieden. Jetzt wurde der Krieger sogar bei der Umsetzung seines Basisattributs runter gestuft.

    Ich habe also Dias in den Aufbau des Charakters investiert und jetzt wird mir das Ergebnis einfach anteilig weggenommen...hat was von Diebstahl finde ich. Wozu denn da noch pimpen??


    Warum werden einzelne Klassen nur runtergesetzt, statt andere hoch?? Das ist kein Ballancing sondern Strauchdieberei.


    Ich werde jedenfalls auf dieser Grundlage nichts mehr in dieses Spiel investieren und kann auch nur davon abraten denselben Fehler zu machen.


    Diese Maßnahme ist für die Katz!


    :( ich bin tierisch angep....


    Mein Spielspaß ist damit beendet!


    Sollte der Thread in diesem Wunderforum an der falschen Stelle landen bitte ich mir das nachzusehen. Ich kann hier nicht wirklich erkennen, wo das Thema am besten anhängig sein sollte. Leider hat mir der Support mitgeteilt, dass ich nur hier meinem Unmut Luft machen könne und dass muss leider raus.

    Aethelfled du tust ja so als wärst du der einzige spieler wärst der unter diesen problemen leidet. Jeder hat das selbe Problem. Und nur weil die Klasse patk verloren hat, ist sie nicht direkt unspielbar. das patk scaling ist schon ein stückchen, versteh mich nich falsch (vorallem fullbuffed) aber wenn sämtliche krieger oder bewaklassen unspielbar dadurch werden würden, würden die diese changes entweder nicht machen lassen oder wenn der feedback zu stark zurück kommt einfach den nerf zurück ziehen. Und mal davon abgesehen, nur weil die Klasse ein nerf bekommen hat, solltest du nicht direkt dich beschweren und trotzdem erstmal deine lieblingsklasse weiterspielen. Jede Klasse hat schon nerfs/buffs bekommen. Einige heftiger als andere, aber trotzdem siehst du verschiedene Klassen in einem Raid, inklusive Krieger.


    Und wenn dein "Spielspaß" über nacht weg ist, warst du bestimmt eh nicht so aufgeregt. Versteh mich nicht falsch, du investierst zeit und geld in etwas, was genervt wird. Natürlich würde mich das im ersten moment auch aufregen, aber wenn ich dein Beitrag lesen würde ohne selbst das spiel zu spielen, würde ich denken, dass krieger/priester die einzige kettenklasse jetzt ist, da die wenigstens noch supporten kann, und alle anderen klassen komplett unnütz geworden sind, weil sie 20-30k patk (keine mathematik oder so, reine schätzung) verloren haben.


    Und dazu kommt noch dass diese klassenchanges schon seid einer langen zeit passieren. Wenn du der meinung bist, geld in etwas zu investieren, was jeden tag verändert werden könnte, ist das deine eigene schuld


    Edit english short translation:

    this problem doesnt affect just one player but the whole community. the recent chainuser nerf did affect them a bit but it doesnt destroy the classes, they are still viable imo. If the changes WOULD destroy those classes, im sure they would revert this nerf. If you spend money on something, that could be changed any given moment, its your own fault and not the fault of any other player or the gms or the dev team or anyone.

    Quote from Aethelfled

    Warum werden einzelne Klassen nur runtergesetzt, statt andere hoch?? Das ist kein Ballancing sondern Strauchdieberei.

    Ich würde vorschlagen, den Gesamtkontext zu betrachten. Krieger wurde im großen Overall Nerf nicht angepasst, stattdessen haben alle anderen Klasse ca. 10% dmg passiv verloren. Einzelne Krieger-Kombis (die gängigsten) wurden in den letzten Patches hart gebufft und sind jetzt mitunter am stärksten unter den Kettenträgern.

    Ich finde den Patch auch nicht ganz so gut wie erwartet, aber für Kettenträger ist das nicht wirklich tragisch... Und was man vom Balancing an sich zu halten hat... nunja, dazu äußer ich mich lieber nicht :pinch:


    EN (summarized)

    It's a misunderstanding of the context, since warrior already wasn't affected by the past nerf and was buffed through several patches, so the current nerf is not a big deal imo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

    Ich rate dir diesen Artikel durchzulesen. Krieger und Champions waren disproportional stark, jedoch muss ich leider zustimmen dass der letzte Patch sich teilweise sehr an den Haaren herbeigezogen anfühlt. Einzelne Klassen wurden als Kompensation wieder gebufft, was in einem "nerf" der anderen Klassen resultiert. Es fühlt sich nicht gut an. Einige gute Änderungen sind allerdings dabei, namentlich der Nerf auf dem Champ/Mage und das Hinzufügen einer magischen Priesterklasse.

    English:

    I'd recommend you to read the article above. Warrios and Champs were disproportionally strong, though I must agree that the last patch seems quite random in nature. Singular classes were buffed to compensate for their loisses, which results in a "net nerf" to others. It just doesn't feel right. There are some pretty good changes though, e.g. the nerf of champ/mage and the addition of a Priest mDPS!


    Have a blessed day,

    Midan

    Hi Arcadia,


    about Scout/Champ,


    I dont think Scout/ Champ should be a melee dps with Range 50,


    Please set the range 50 from „Gelenkschlag“ ID: 490420 and „Durchdringender Pfeil“ ID: 490400 to 230 like the other skills, this would be fine for this class, compared to other scout classes.


    Greetings :)


    Luciaa

    • Official Post

    We do not plan to change this class in this direction.


    Greetings

    I tried now D/R in rofl and I can say that Necrotic Wound (ID 494321) has a very low damage now. I like changing it from 5% mana but the damage is too low.


    And Sinister Request (ID 494023) please remove it from GCD that could help d/r do a bit more damage.



    Greetings

    Quote from Byte

    We do not plan to change this class in this direction.


    Greetings

    Since you try to make this classcombo a "more melee based" how about making it ranged spells, but giving it extra dmg if you use it if you are close to the boss? as example the spells deal ~100% more dmg

    Quote from Shino
    Quote from Byte

    We do not plan to change this class in this direction.


    Greetings

    Since you try to make this classcombo a "more melee based" how about making it ranged spells, but giving it extra dmg if you use it if you are close to the boss? as example the spells deal ~100% more dmg

    I think the main issue of the class is that it doesn't have the neccessary tools to both survive and deal proper damage to targets in ROFL. The 15% more damage taken from it's blood arrow work directly against the interest of being a melee; if you reverse the classes, as in, champ/scout, that class suffers from the same problem from an opposing situation: Two debuffs that tick away our HP just wreck your survivability to a point where the class isn't really viable anymore. Here is what I recommend:

    Flip the two blood arrows. Let the Ch/Scout take 15% more but not degenerate while the Scout/ch should degenerate but take 15% less. These defensive mechanics are important for melee classes to be viable below the absolute top tier - any rouge that isn't a r/p will agree to that - and the melee s/ch falls into that category too. Once it's "safe" to be a melee, damage adjustments would make a lot more sense.

    In addition to that.


    I would also Suggest to remove the GCD of Target Lock (492620) from Scout/Warrior as he also as the /Rogue has a long build up ( 3extra Skills /debuffs/buffs) for his Burst where most bosses are allready half dead when he can start to dps .


    Greetings

    If you identify a UFO as a UFO , then it becomes an FO. Unless it has landed , then it is simply an -> O

    Edited once, last by Cruvor ().

    Like 3

    Regarding the planned changed log of priest/scout.


    These changes do not help whatsoever regarding the non-existing damage these skills deal. No matter which skill (rising tide, drowning attack or Ice Blade) even with the maximum amount of cast speed these skills deal no damage whatsoever. Even the first version of Druid/Mage did more damage (and I thought you couldn't deal less damage than that.) And the 8% more mAtack won't change that.So please consider buffing the damage these skills deal.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 3

    just delete all leather class bcs this nerf all the time is not funny


    magic class are stronger than all leather class but u nerf leather class


    GJ more nerf good way if u wanna less ppl here do it more GJ


    nice +1



    wtt full gold leather gear for equal cloth bcs im done with this idiot balance


    edit

    ps. if someone wanna waste money make leather eq

    Quote from Laisha

    Regarding the planned changed log of priest/scout.


    These changes do not help whatsoever regarding the non-existing damage these skills deal. No matter which skill (rising tide, drowning attack or Ice Blade) even with the maximum amount of cast speed these skills deal no damage whatsoever. Even the first version of Druid/Mage did more damage (and I thought you couldn't deal less damage than that.) And the 8% more mAtack won't change that.So please consider buffing the damage these skills deal.


    Greetings.

    I agree and this class still needs more AOE skills . I don't want to spam unlimited ice blade in the whole instance for it :D

    Would someone be so kind and explain me the exact reasons why classes are stronger as others? Why is everyone saying nerf MDD and everyone crying about leather classes, even tho a few rogue classes got a pretty good buff with the energy recharge? I only know my Knight combos, so i would love to know which class is the strongest atm based off ROFL runs and why other classes cant compete with others etc


    either pm or ingame, thank you very much!

    Quote from Shino

    Would someone be so kind and explain me the exact reasons why classes are stronger as others? Why is everyone saying nerf MDD and everyone crying about leather classes, even tho a few rogue classes got a pretty good buff with the energy recharge? I only know my Knight combos, so i would love to know which class is the strongest atm based off ROFL runs and why other classes cant compete with others etc


    either pm or ingame, thank you very much!

    The energy buff for rogues is for a more fluent game play, not a really strong buff, because with buffs you have also dwarven ale up. Furthermore only r/d, r/p and r/s needs/can use the new buff. r/wrd don't need it.


    In my opinion you cannot say "this class is the best". It depends on gameplay, group play, pull style and much more.

    Quote from Mazzi

    Now R can be only buffer xd

    Many ppl may be fell disappointed....

    i don't understand what you both are talking about.


    i never played r/p since long time but as i see even people who cant deal half of their damage as any other rogue are performing ok with this class in runs, and i don't see a nerf in change list whatsoever. you are losing 15% pdmg (17-18%~ since pdmg is working weird with flat damage buffs) and gaining 10% more aoe damage against 6 target, gaining 120% more aoe damage against 15 target.


    ---------------------------------------------


    there are few problematic combo of rogue, my opinion about rogues generally is:


    rogue/mage is one of these problematic combos in my opinion which is relying on physical attack boosters ALOT more compared to other classes due to having lowest physical attack among other classes even with end game equipment, and it is also most expensive rogue combo to deal its maximum potential damage i believe in end content.


    other one is rogue/warlock which is performing mediocre/ok due to missing aoe damage, but it again depends on playstyle of the tank.


    rogue/druid: best duo for rogue/mage -- is a bit uncomfortable to play due to needing to change your location alot for sustain aoe, but does decent damage

    rogue/champion: best support for balton lovers, after m/wl ofc -- imo a weak class due to losing alot in terms of damage comparison with others in raid, in exchange to buff party slightly (not buffing mdps alot however)

    rogue/warrior: slowest rogue, but highest burst potential (not comparing with r/p because i don't know how it is for burst), it overperfoms in slow runs / easily outperforms any mage i met in any type of run

    rogue/warden: i didn't play recently, but it was feeling quite weak in slow runs due to missing sustained damage

    rogue/scout: i didn't play recently


    and have to mention that i don't care about damage of these classes in balton while writing these opinions, everything is about overall damage, not just single target burst.

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Priest/Scout


    -As everyone said, these changes won't do anything.

    • Changed Drowning Attack to apply 10 Drowning stacks to target for 10 seconds. Every time the target gets hit by your own Rising Tide, cooldown time of Drowning Attack will be reduced by 1 second in exchange of consuming 1 stack off the target.

    Why stacks in a target? That kind of mechanic never works (dwl should tell you something). Make rising tide reduce cd 1s directly, no stacks. Isn't a bad time to do the same to d/wl and its nature poison end of combo.


    Druid/Rogue


    What can I say, this class literally died. It went from one of best mdps to one of the worst. DWL is WAY above this class now (I thought I would never see that happening, dwl above anything xD)


    -Single burst is bad. Even with full buffs im doing 13% lower hits, this in a dummy without counting the mattack nerf which probably make it x2 in most partys and x3 without sups.

    -Aoe burst is terrible. Did you change sandstorm? All this disaster come from Necrotic wound change? That skill is doing way less than half dmg than before (full buffed and counting it x2 times since is 0.5s cast). Im starting to think warrior/mage is performing better in aoe :)

    -Sustain... well, without buffs is just a shame. 50% nerf in single and 353% nerf in aoe necrotic wound (again without mattack nerf which make the numbers way higher).

    I compared with more than 30 runs screenshots and I cant find a single one where the class got less than 30% overall nerf, reaching +50% nerf in many others.


    What in this earth did you do? Ive never seen in this year of balance any class getting that destroyed in one patch.

    loosing 15% pdmg for rogue results in ~22% damage loss (for me^^)

    One additional point: I don't think rogue/warrior has highest burst potential. For AOE yes, but single target not. My r/s, r/p, r/wrd, r/wl, r/m and r/ch dealing more single target burst (balton) than r/w. (didn't played r/d for a while)

    But r/w is, as you said, probably the best rogue for slow runs and has the best AOE of rogues for me, but the class is even worse than a good mage (let it be mage/ch or mage/s or any other good mage as good as those two) in overall rofl. Maybe the single target burst potential of r/w is better than other rogues, if there are other rogues of which you can leech the bleedings, but this are my experiences and r/w wasn't changed a long time.


    Greetings

    Revenant u can said what u want rly


    r/p is strongest rogue atm and he is rly behind mages champs or warden


    rogue soon will end like scout :) scout in pt? hmm only support or u must make EQ like Lutine or Cruvor (2 tier better than good mage) if u wanna deal equal dmg its just not fair bcs they nerf all the time rogue


    who need nerf right now? in my opinion all aoe class like m/s m/wd ch/m but for sure not rogue

    bcs for now in random from last 2 week i never saw r/ch r/d r/wrl r/wd r/m only r/p and maybe 2 times r/w and they are behind mage in 95% situation


    and its not all if u wanna play the best rogue in my opinion(who is behind good cloth or chain class) r/p u have sick mana usage




    srsly this tell a lot

    random no r/ch r/d r/wrl r/wd r/m no scouts

    if they are good why ppl dont wanna play them

    soon r/p end like r/s

    my observations are made under a raid which is poorly supported by patk boosters (noone except wlm i guess), thatswhy rogue/warrior is performing better in my party i believe, due to having insanely higher patk than other classes without supports, and r/wd comes after that, however r/ch was quite weaker than other physical classes for me no matter what raid setting we have, maybe t16 dagger is increasing my damage by 30% compared to t15 hammer :P

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Quote from johnkopytko

    r/p is strongest rogue atm and he is rly behind mages champs or warden

    r/p might be strongest rogue and if thats true, it will stay as strongest rogue. but let me disagree with you on the second sentence.

    Quote from johnkopytko

    random no r/ch r/d r/wrl r/wd r/m no scouts

    if they are good why ppl dont wanna play them

    it is unfortunately not my problem that players are picking mage over rogue for some reason.


    im mainly playing rogue since the beginning of balance and playing other classes too time by time, and can say that rogue was never weaker than other classes - except than champs in some patches - by all combos compared and i always had a combo to play with when a one falls behind. but currently i don't see a big difference between mage and rogues in pug runs as long as we have a w/p or k/m in party that is preventing the rogue from death.

    Quote from johnkopytko

    rogue soon will end like scout :) scout in pt? hmm only support or u must make EQ like Lutine or Cruvor

    :D

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Like 1