Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Quote from Zyrex

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Changed Poisonous Widow Embrace damage value to 342.8% + 10 x 34.3% CPS dark damage from 5570 + 10 x 557, reduced energy recovery to 3 per hit from 2 per critical hit.

How is that a decrease? Before it was 2 energy per crit, now it's 3 energy per hit in general (no matter if crit or not)? Or does it now only trigger if I don't crit?

It was a decrease at the beginning (before it was changed ~400 times xD) so I assume they forgot to delete the "reduce". At some point it was 1 per hit if I remember correctly.

Edit: Its already been corrected

Greetings.

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I assume they forgot to delete the "reduce"

That would make sense then.

However, that's the first patch for a long time, that is literally exciting me, because we get new classes / redesign of d/r, whose result I can't recognize yet.

There are a lot of changes that I think are very useful, but in general, I still don't get the point of that gamble tactic: Instead of such huuuuuge changes (that will probably reroll the entire meta once again) there should be done smaller ones in a shorter period of time. But what do I know...

K/S

I just realized that Heavenly Arrow (ID: 490067) is only decreasing the physical damage of targets hit. The description doesn't specify this. Could that be changed to additionally decrease magical damage? Maybe the class could be way more useful for the raid then.

Also the Holy Resistance (ID: 492939) could have a shorter downtime, or longer duration. A K/W can use the Shield of Discipline and Defensive Formation rotating for constant defensive cooldowns, but K/S has a huge downtime on such a rota. Decreasing the internal cooldown of Holy Resistance from 30 to 20 should fix that. Then, the Holy Arrow could be used in the 20s downtime, which would perfectly match and might be equal.

I am really not sure about the changes of the d/w. They go into the right direction, but the main issue of the class is rage. The class isn't good unless you take some dwarfen ale - and another rage cost will not change that.

Maybe you could add some additional rage generation to Natural Attack, as you miss a basic attack from channeling it?

Anywho, the upcoming patch looks pretty nice!

Regarding Rogue:

After testing the rotation of several Rogue combinations for a bit, I can attest that Energy issues are pretty severe (except for /W as was already mentioned).

Hence my following suggestion. Change Numbing Dagger (a skill nearly noone ever uses anyway) to

Cursed Blade: "Sap the vitality of your foe causing 400% mainhand weapon dps physical damage to the target and restoring 50 Energy to you." 8 seconds cd and doesn't cause a gcd.

This would be akin to Warlock's Heart Collection Strike and would help sustaining a lot. The Rage sustain issues Warrior and Champion had were addressed long ago, so it would be just fair. If any balancing issues should arise in the aftermath, small corrections can always be applied to the respective secondary classes. Afterall, classes should have a somewhat fluent rotation. I can imagine that especially new players who lack elite skills will have a hard time leveling a Rogue.

Regarding Druid/Warrior:

I agree with Midan, looks promising. However, I still suggest removing the gcd of Heart Piercing and adding it to Slash.

The reason for this is that the non gcd ability is used first and having one that costs Rage just feels so clunky to play. Moreover, it would help with Rage sustain quite a bit, since Heart Piercing is used every 1.5 seconds and generates Rage constantly.

Quote from Serenadae

Regarding Rogue:

After testing the rotation of several Rogue combinations for a bit, I can attest that Energy issues are pretty severe (except for /W as was already mentioned).

Hence my following suggestion. Change Numbing Dagger (a skill nearly noone ever uses anyway) to

Cursed Blade: "Sap the vitality of your foe causing 400% mainhand weapon dps physical damage to the target and restoring 50 Energy to you." 8 seconds cd and doesn't cause a gcd.

This would be akin to Warlock's Heart Collection Strike and would help sustaining a lot. The Rage sustain issues Warrior and Champion had were addressed long ago, so it would be just fair. If any balancing issues should arise in the aftermath, small corrections can always be applied to the respective secondary classes. Afterall classes should have a somewhat fluent rotation. I can imagine that especially new players who lack elite skills will have a hard time leveling a Rogue.

Regarding Druid/Warrior:

I agree with Midan, looks promising. However, I still suggest removing the gcd of Heart Piercing and adding it to Slash.

The reason for this is that the non gcd ability is used first and having one that costs Rage just feels so clunky to play. Moreover, it would help with Rage sustain quite a bit, since Heart Piercing is used every 1.5 seconds and generates Rage constantly.

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Regarding the Rogue suggestion: I support the idea, but it does not need 400% dps. could be also lower if it does not cause a global cooldown.

Quote from Serenadae

Regarding Druid/Warrior:

I agree with Midan, looks promising. However, I still suggest removing the gcd of Heart Piercing and adding it to Slash.

The reason for this is that the non gcd ability is used first and having one that costs Rage just feels so clunky to play. Moreover, it would help with Rage sustain quite a bit, since Heart Piercing is used every 1.5 seconds and generates Rage constantly.

I am 100% in favour on this. Maybe changing the cross thorn blow to use mana (like 5%) would also be a nice touch.

Have a blessed day,
Midan

kill scout

kill rogue

whats next?

Byte can you answer?

bcs soon i just pass with game u kill all combinations for rogue r/wrl r/d r/s r/p and this mana usage as r/p is a joke

can someone answer why r/p must use 5% and 2% mana ?

its same situation like warden and he dont have this ;x why?

one skill single target and one aoe

charged chop 350mana - kick 2%

power of the wood spirit 250 - holy surge 5%

why u do this?

pls change mana usage for r/p or for all warden comb bcs now is unfair

Quote from johnkopytko

pls change mana usage for r/p or for all warden comb bcs now is unfair

Please not, I see Warden/Warrior with %-mana cost PotW running out in 10 seconds...

I have no clue about rogue, but I think, it depends on the class, if it's useful to make skills cost percentual or not. Changing that for all of them would be fatal and destroying a lot of classes entirely. I mean, r/p is just 1 single subclass... if the mana drain is that much, include a priest/mage or druid/rogue into your raid and use mana reduction buff food, that should fix it.

But for specific subclasses that would be a good idea. Maybe not 5% but 1-2% should make mana matter more/again on (for example) warlock/warden, which is one of the easiest combos out there (for cloth dps users) and its damage is (still) insane (in our raids).

Quote from Serenadae

Yep, R/K without Power of the Lion active is as good a dps as Ch/W with Disassembly Mode active.

Sorry friend, i can't agree with you

R/k is the weakest rogue with really low dmg

Quote from Merkur

Quote from Serenadae

Yep, R/K without Power of the Lion active is as good a dps as Ch/W with Disassembly Mode active.

Sorry friend, i can't agree with you

R/k is the weakest rogue with really low dmg

And Champion/Warrior has the damage potential of a wet potato. The R/K falls apart at the way that rouges currently stat, as in 3x Str/Str and 3x Dex/Dex - while only converting one stat to stamina. This leaves the class in a really bad spot, as it is designed to be a tank. Due to the fact that the aggro multipliers on it's skills aren't toggle-able (like rune pulse with shield form) the versatility also isn't there. It should be changed to converting both attributes at about 80% of their value, like the champions.

P/W - still Chain of Lights doesnt hit the bulls at last boss in rofl.

K/S

Got a suggestion for Knight/Scout. (I just tested this in a rofl run to get sure.) This class is pretty decent already, but it's major mechanic to pull over distance fails at some point, since you're not able to generate good aggro on range. So pulling mobs with your ranged weapon skills (best would be Holy Resistance) results in losing aggro to ranged dps instantly.

Solution: First, let Holy Resistance⁴⁹²⁹³⁹ deal Light Damage and additionaly give it an aggro multiplier of 250% like Holy Strike.

That should give it a ranged holy strike alternative that costs focus. (Also it seems to be named as an alternative already bcz of the "Holy" prefix).

Hi I would like to suggest Ice Blades (ID 490071) for P/S to remove from GCD . It is really useless especially this class has only 1 aoe damage not like other mdps or just add another aoe for this class like changing elite skills 45 / 60 / 70 because they are now mdps class.

And I notice on this class only 1 skill can use focus, Drowning Attack (ID 492397) and has 12 secs cd so there are lot of focus left. If possible to remove the cd of this skill and just add the required focus on this skill.

Thanks For Hard Working devs

Quote from Crystals

Hi I would like to suggest Ice Blades (ID 490071) for P/S to remove from GCD . It is really useless especially this class has only 1 aoe damage not like other mdps or just add another aoe for this class like changing elite skills 45 / 60 / 70 because they are now mdps class.

And I notice on this class only 1 skill can use focus, Drowning Attack (ID 492397) and has 12 secs cd so there are lot of focus left. If possible to remove the cd of this skill and just add the required focus on this skill.

Thanks For Hard Working devs

I am not ingame atm, but Ice Blades have no cd, right? Removing gcd would result in spammable AOE 5 times a second. Would be to much in my eyes without testing

Greetings

Priest/Scout "Rising Tide".

This skill is completly useless atm. "Death of cold" (which isn't even a CpS skill) is way stronger than rising tide. The only time it makes sense to use this skill is if you have a ton of additional cast speed because only then is rising tide stronger. I mean even "Drowning attack" is just slighly better then "Death of cold" without additional cast spped (I don't count Curse Rune, Setboni and "Clear Thought" because the "slightly better" is already with these buffs).

I haven't played this class in rofl yet but maybe you should increase the values of Rising Tide, as well as "Drowning Attack" (because for a skill with such a high cd its damage is really low imo).

Greetings.

Quote from Laisha

Priest/Scout "Rising Tide".

This skill is completly useless atm. "Death of cold" (which isn't even a CpS skill) is way stronger than rising tide. The only time it makes sense to use this skill is if you have a ton of additional cast speed because only then is rising tide stronger. I mean even "Drowning attack" is just slighly better then "Death of cold" without additional cast spped (I don't count Curse Rune, Setboni and "Clear Thought" because the "slightly better" is already with these buffs).

I haven't played this class in rofl yet but maybe you should increase the values of Rising Tide, as well as "Drowning Attack" (because for a skill with such a high cd its damage is really low imo).

Greetings.

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I agree on that totally. The Rising Tide is just useless atm.

Maybe add a chance to reset the cd of Drowning Attack with a crit of Rising Tide and buff its damage a bit, that could solve the issue.

Quote from Laisha

Priest/Scout "Rising Tide".

This skill is completly useless atm. "Death of cold" (which isn't even a CpS skill) is way stronger than rising tide. The only time it makes sense to use this skill is if you have a ton of additional cast speed because only then is rising tide stronger. I mean even "Drowning attack" is just slighly better then "Death of cold" without additional cast spped (I don't count Curse Rune, Setboni and "Clear Thought" because the "slightly better" is already with these buffs).

I haven't played this class in rofl yet but maybe you should increase the values of Rising Tide, as well as "Drowning Attack" (because for a skill with such a high cd its damage is really low imo).

Greetings.

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I Agree on this. I probably suggest to Drowning Attack remove cooldown and make it 30 focus that could help damage of p/s .

Quote from Crystals

Quote from Laisha

Priest/Scout "Rising Tide".

This skill is completly useless atm. "Death of cold" (which isn't even a CpS skill) is way stronger than rising tide. The only time it makes sense to use this skill is if you have a ton of additional cast speed because only then is rising tide stronger. I mean even "Drowning attack" is just slighly better then "Death of cold" without additional cast spped (I don't count Curse Rune, Setboni and "Clear Thought" because the "slightly better" is already with these buffs).

I haven't played this class in rofl yet but maybe you should increase the values of Rising Tide, as well as "Drowning Attack" (because for a skill with such a high cd its damage is really low imo).

Greetings.

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I Agree on this. I probably suggest to Drowning Attack removed from GCD and make it 30 focus that could help damage of p/s .

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Drowning Attack doesn't have a gcd.

Greetings.

Quote from Laisha

Quote from Crystals

I Agree on this. I probably suggest to Drowning Attack removed from GCD and make it 30 focus that could help damage of p/s .

Drowning Attack doesn't have a gcd.

Greetings.

Post Edited Cooldown *

Greetings,
Regarding p/s from a healer perspective:

This class has still all of his elite skills which made it a class with a very strong heal output. If you would adjust the current damage skills he has to make it a viable mdps class this class is still a very strong healer with only 1 equipmentslot switch.
A lot of people complained about the ch/d beeing this viable in support, heal (basically everything). I don't know if this class is currently viable with it's skills or not because 1st: I don't play mdps and 2nd: I think no one tested it by now in rofl so therefore there is no feedback in here. But if it's viable we would have kind of the same problem as with the ch/d which would be suboptimal for the class balancing.

I would suggest, if this class should be a mdps to change for example:
"Saint's Blessing" (ID: 493039) to let Shot, Joint Blow and Vampire Arrow's to deal mdmg to have more skills to rely on?
"Curing Shot" (ID: 492636) to an aoe or another single target skill with maybe more basecast to have better burst dmg?

These are only examples from my healer perspective. Maybe the active mdps players could interfere here with me but I don't like the changes about having a viable dps and with 1 equip switch a strong healer.

Kind Regards
Nghty

Quote from Nghty

Greetings,
Regarding p/s from a healer perspective:

This class has still all of his elite skills which made it a class with a very strong heal output. If you would adjust the current damage skills he has to make it a viable mdps class this class is still a very strong healer with only 1 equipmentslot switch.
A lot of people complained about the ch/d beeing this viable in support, heal (basically everything). I don't know if this class is currently viable with it's skills or not because 1st: I don't play mdps and 2nd: I think no one tested it by now in rofl so therefore there is no feedback in here. But if it's viable we would have kind of the same problem as with the ch/d which would be suboptimal for the class balancing.

I would suggest, if this class should be a mdps to change for example:
"Saint's Blessing" (ID: 493039) to let Shot, Joint Blow and Vampire Arrow's to deal mdmg to have more skills to rely on?
"Curing Shot" (ID: 492636) to an aoe or another single target skill with maybe more basecast to have better burst dmg?

These are only examples from my healer perspective. Maybe the active mdps players could interfere here with me but I don't like the changes about having a viable dps and with 1 equip switch a strong healer.

Kind Regards
Nghty

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dfference between ch/d and p/s is that you don't need to change anything in ch/x eq to be viable as ch/d healer/supp. but to be usefull as p/s mdps/heal you need two different equipments.

Quote from Nghty

These are only examples from my healer perspective. Maybe the active mdps players could interfere here with me but I don't like the changes about having a viable dps and with 1 equip switch a strong healer.

While I generally agree with you, if this would be adressed then there are several other classes that would need to be changed because they work that way. Druid/Mage , Druid/Rogue, Druid/Warlock all can instantly switch and heal (some have to unbuff 1 skill first but yeah). So I honestly don't mind the fact that this is possible. Also as Elmo said its not entirely the same because a champ/druid can do all of that with 1 eq.^^

Greetings.

Quote from Laisha

Quote from Nghty

These are only examples from my healer perspective. Maybe the active mdps players could interfere here with me but I don't like the changes about having a viable dps and with 1 equip switch a strong healer.

While I generally agree with you, if this would be adressed then there are several other classes that would need to be changed because they work that way. Druid/Mage , Druid/Rogue, Druid/Warlock all can instantly switch and heal (some have to unbuff 1 skill first but yeah). So I honestly don't mind the fact that this is possible. Also as Elmo said its not entirely the same because a champ/druid can do all of that with 1 eq.^^

Greetings.

Maybe the solution would be to add a healing decrement on specific buffs. For D/R the Shadow Pact reduces healing output, so you actually need to remove that buff, not only switch gear. That is missing on the other classes afaik, which could solve that problem... however, I don't really see there a problem. On a lot of classes (not only healer primaries) you can build another gear to fill another role. A lot of warlocks can be played as support or dps, some even as tanks with adapted gear. Not even talking about champs

I would not recommend to strictly separate roles and gear types anymore. In the past I wrote a post about that issue, but now I think, it's kinda "too late to complain about that", so let's deal with it. (Link to the mentioned post)

@Mods: Maybe you could change the link markup in the forum to be visible better.. now you need to hover over the text to see a link, which is... unfortunate.

P/S

Found a bug: If you through away your Elemental Repercussions ISS from ISS interface and slot it again, you get the buff instantly with a permanent duration. You don't even need to activate the buff. But if you do, it's being overwritten and the duration is fine.