Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Thank you Sere, agree on all as well. I agree one can make crippling shot work via the chain drive, but that removes the logic of skill being ranged, which is why I think cast should be removed or should be made non-interruptable if you move, ch/s cant do good dps range, must be close so not moving is not an option :)


    I also think few skills that are just used to enable something should be non-gcd:


    perhaps consider removing gcd from the Rune Growth/Indomitable Spirit/Kinetic Explosion


    Could you also comment on the ch/s damage output please? I was comparing with s/wl, which atm seems to be a benchmark top dps at least in our raids; ch/s was behind s/wl on all of sustain/trash/aoe/burst + bleeding like crazy haha thats why i suggested some increases on the ch/s aoe to help abit.


    Another thing, was mentioned before, dura loss on the gun is way too high - one rofl run and i lost half of the total gun dura - it should be decreased several times for sure :)


    Thank you!

    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    I also think few skills that are just used to enable something should be non-gcd:


    perhaps consider removing gcd from the Rune Growth/Indomitable Spirit/Kinetic Explosion

    ...and while you are at it, please also remove gcd from:


    Rune Energy Influx, Elemental Weakness, Forgotten Black Magic, Holy Candle, Healing Salve, Curing Seed, Shield of Solid Mind, Mind Barrier, Shadow Step and Threaten.


    Heck, why not remove gcd from all non-damaging skills? :/


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 1

    One idea for the ch/s:


    Since ch/s has more pa than other champs due to extra gun + issue with hp dot, I wonder if it could make sense to change Forge skill to increase damage by 2% instead of pa and have max stacks to 7 (i.e. similar to ch/wl) + have some percent of hp restored on white hit, with the later helping out with bleeds.


    Kind regards,

    Rakot

    I would also like to share my experiences with Ch/S.


    First of all, I have read Sere's and Rakot's suggestions for possible changes and agree with them.


    The focus problem has been fixed very well by the latest changes. It requires some management as Rakot said but it works quite well once you adjust to it.


    Also I still see the big HP loss as a quality of life problem for the Ch/S. I agree that the HP loss on Blood Arrow should be reduced and that there should be a skill or something that regenerates HP. The large HP loss is not good for this class, especially in trash, and I think it is also quite exhausting for the healers. Also, in this combination, the class is at a disadvantage with the organs in my opinion because you have to pay attention to A the timer and B your life and can't really do much damage there for these very reasons.


    As for the Crippling Shot, I too only use it in conjunction with the Chain Drive. Despite this configuration and the fact that the Fearless Shot still triggers the Chain Drive even though it doesn't need it, it did happen in the Burst that the Chain Drive Trigger was used by the Fearless Shot and the Crippling Shot became a Cast despite the configuration. This costs DPS, also the abort of the cast by movement is really annoying. For these reasons, I also tend to remove the cast in order to increase the quality of life of the class a little more.


    On the subject of Aoe's with mouseover function. I also have my problems with it, it is not always possible to use the skill properly, be it an uneven surface or possibly an invisible blade of grass. If you can't place the skill correctly, the character runs right through the Ini, which is anything but nice in my eyes. For this reason, I would suggest changing the mouseover placement at least for the Mechanical Storm so that it works like the Spirit Blade Storm from the W/WL. The Aoe would still be anchored at one point but would be much easier to handle.


    I'm not sure how Sere or Rakot see it, but I've also considered whether this change might be useful for the Imprisonment Pulse. Would love to hear your opinion on this.


    In this sense greetings

    Quote from Elcaponie

    On the subject of Aoe's with mouseover function. I also have my problems with it, it is not always possible to use the skill properly, be it an uneven surface or possibly an invisible blade of grass. If you can't place the skill correctly, the character runs right through the Ini, which is anything but nice in my eyes. For this reason, I would suggest changing the mouseover placement at least for the Mechanical Storm so that it works like the Spirit Blade Storm from the W/WL. The Aoe would still be anchored at one point but would be much easier to handle.


    I'm not sure how Sere or Rakot see it, but I've also considered whether this change might be useful for the Imprisonment Pulse. Would love to hear your opinion on this.

    I have exact same problem with both the Mechanical Storm and Imprisonment Pulse - trees/grass or whatever, half of the time especially in tight spaces (RoFl has a few haha) I cant place these aoes, this is always so frustrating for me and by far the biggest negative issue i have with champs in general. I would vote 100% if the placement is replaced with the Spirit Blade Storm mechanics from the W/WL - keep all damage range etc same but use the Spirit Blade Storm to initiate/anchor the Mechanical Storm and Imprisonment Pulse. It would not change anything dps wise, but as a quality of life change would be incredible, I personally 100% in favor of that - would make champ much more enjoyable and aoe placement would be much more consistent - nothing is worst to fully buff and then spend few seconds trying to place the aoe and end up either not placing it at all or moving into a random direction and then placing it somewhere else - happens almost every time when we are in a tight corridor or have trees/grass or something - super annoying!


    Kind regards,

    Rakot

    The same with me. You buff yourself up, run into the mobs, trigger the skill and run somewhere else because you can't place the skill. When you finally catch yourself, either the mobs are dead or the cds have run out or you place the aoe in some other place where, if you're unlucky, there aren't even any mobs. The Spirit Blade Storm is the same principle with the difference that the skill triggers where the character is. Most DD classes have target or non-target based Aoes and don't have to deal with such problems. I assume that changing the mechanics of the aoe skills from mouseover to player would increase the viability of the champion enormously. As Rakot said, no change in damage, just a change in mechanism.

    Quote from Rakot_Hades
    Quote from Elcaponie

    The Spirit Blade Storm is the same principle with the difference that the skill triggers where the character is.

    If I recall it works as a hit on a mob + range around the mob, so not based on where the character is - but yeah that way you can actually apply the aoe consistently

    I just checked again the aoe is triggered where you stand without a target, even if I ignite the aoe in the Itnal camp in front of the maid it is placed where I stand.


    e55682ee9ca450cd6da8e3dd9d7ee2bf.png

    https://gyazo.com/e55682ee9ca450cd6da8e3dd9d7ee2bf

    Quote from Elcaponie
    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    If I recall it works as a hit on a mob + range around the mob, so not based on where the character is - but yeah that way you can actually apply the aoe consistently

    I just checked again the aoe is triggered where you stand without a target, even if I ignite the aoe in the Itnal camp in front of the maid it is placed where I stand.


    e55682ee9ca450cd6da8e3dd9d7ee2bf.png

    https://gyazo.com/e55682ee9ca450cd6da8e3dd9d7ee2bf

    Ah yes, i got it confused with another skill - Psychic Whirlwind from w/wl - that is the one that i think would work similar concept wise with the Mechanical Strorm and Imprisonment Pulse, only difference it would place aoe based on a mob + area around it - would just need to use Psychic Whirlwind placement but keep damage + range similar to current 2 aoes - that way no change in terms of dps + idea behind the skill but would work consistently.


    Cheers!

    I have tested both Knight-pdps (/Wd & /Wl) in rofl and both underperformed.

    My suggestions:

    /Wl: Increase the damage increment of 2h-Weapon Mastery from 87% to 95%.

    /Wd: Change Briar Shield to increase your patk by 10%.


    Those changes would make both classes viable again.

    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    Ah yes, i got it confused with another skill - Psychic Whirlwind from w/wl - that is the one that i think would work similar concept wise with the Mechanical Strorm and Imprisonment Pulse, only difference it would place aoe based on a mob + area around it - would just need to use Psychic Whirlwind placement but keep damage + range similar to current 2 aoes - that way no change in terms of dps + idea behind the skill but would work consistently.


    Cheers!

    The Psychic Whirlwind is triggered by a Whitehit and is a Frontaoe if I am not mistaken. Have a look at both Aoes at the Dolls. The Spirit Blade Storm can also be used with a little range from the target and goes all around regardless of whether you are standing in front of or behind the target. This is also how the Imprisonment Pulse works, which is why I think this mechanic would be the better choice. As I said it is the same principle, only that you don't have to choose the position with the mouse but your own char determines the position.

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    If you made any changes in this direction, I would also add several skills to the list ;)

    Quote from Elcaponie

    The same with me. You buff yourself up, run into the mobs, trigger the skill and run somewhere else because you can't place the skill. When you finally catch yourself, either the mobs are dead or the cds have run out or you place the aoe in some other place where, if you're unlucky, there aren't even any mobs. The Spirit Blade Storm is the same principle with the difference that the skill triggers where the character is. Most DD classes have target or non-target based Aoes and don't have to deal with such problems. I assume that changing the mechanics of the aoe skills from mouseover to player would increase the viability of the champion enormously. As Rakot said, no change in damage, just a change in mechanism.

    I would also add skills where these changes would bring a lot of quality of life:


    Rogue/Mage: Enlivened Blade

    Rogue/Champion: Silent Rune Bomb & Pulse Rune Bomb

    Rogue/Druid: Poison Shroud

    Rogue/Warlock: Dark Soul Barrier (no aoe skill, but a group buff. But here you have the same problem)

    Mage: Meteor Shower & Purgatory Fire & Thunderstorm

    Mage/Priest: Aquatic Storm

    Warlock: ISS Spatial Rift


    The same problem also exists with some healers aoe heals. And I haven´t listed skills from classes that I don´t play.


    Kind regards

    I´d like to suggest something for the warlock:


    ISS Traces of the Void: Remove the movement speed reduction. The permanent life dot is enough. As a warlock you have less movement speed than the pdd classes, because the most important warlock title has no movement speed in contrast to the pdd title (at lest the best for most pdd classes). You have enough difficulties getting your casts through in the trash, then there are "invisible" obstacles or the mob is pulled out of range. Therefore the skill idea is good in itself, but the cost of movement speed are not worth it. Because what good is "able to cast while moving" if I can´t keep up with the reduced moving speed.


    Kind regards

    Of course, this should be changed for all classes facing the same problems. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the other classes to create an exact list of all skills here. It would also be necessary to see how far this works with which skills. With certain healer classes, priest/scout for example, I could imagine that this kind of mechanic is used to heal/reach other players in the raid outside of their own range. How far it would make sense to change the skill so that the healer has to run into the group would have to be discussed with the healers. Of course, the same applies to other classes that use this mechanic. But I think it would definitely improve the quality of life of all classes that use skills with the same mechanics enormously.


    Best regards

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    Quote from Serenadae

    Regarding Clone Conversion/Organic Deconstruction:

    Both skills do not work while being immune against magical damage (Serenstum etc.). No damage is dealt & the buff doesn't trigger.

    Please fix this.

    I can confirm this, Aoe or Buff are not triggered as soon as you make yourself immune to magic damage.

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    Quote from Elcaponie

    Of course, this should be changed for all classes facing the same problems. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the other classes to create an exact list of all skills here. It would also be necessary to see how far this works with which skills. With certain healer classes, priest/scout for example, I could imagine that this kind of mechanic is used to heal/reach other players in the raid outside of their own range. How far it would make sense to change the skill so that the healer has to run into the group would have to be discussed with the healers. Of course, the same applies to other classes that use this mechanic. But I think it would definitely improve the quality of life of all classes that use skills with the same mechanics enormously.

    I have to disagree on this topic.

    I know very well how annoying it can be to place these AoE-fields, but changing only a few for certain classes would be quite unfair. For healers and supporters it indeed makes no sense, because placing them wherever you want is what makes these skills viable. Just casting them around you would be a huge nerf. In fact, that would be the case for all ranged classes. So those classes will have to deal with the placing issue anyway.

    Now allowing melee classes to use these AoEs without placing them, would make them superior in this case compared to for example Scouts lv90 ISS and to Mages Thunderstorm or Meteor Shower.

    So to solve this issue for ALL classes properly, you would have to adress the problems certain terrains bring while placing the AoE-field, so that it does not stick to trees or rocks or statues or butterflies or ceilings, but only on floor textures.

    Lastly, I dont play dps that often, but when I play(ed) champion I liked the fact that you can deal AoE dmg to an area where you actually are not standing. Sometimes it is dangerous or even impossible to go near a certain area or certain mobs, changing these AoEs as you proposed would render them useless in such situations.


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Edited once, last by melodic ().

    Like 5

    Of course, that's what we're here to discuss. ^^ The mechanics of the Spirit Blade Storm was just an idea, of course I agree with other possibilities of improvement.


    Sure, I also use the variant of the champ, for example, to pull mobs, the mechanics of Spirit Blade Storm works similarly, you would probably have to stand a little closer to it, but the area of effect also goes a bit beyond the char. So a pull with this mechanic would still be possible. As an alternative, it would simply have been the simplest variant.


    Of course, this is absolutely useless for ranged classes as well as for healers. My basic idea only served to change the champ, I hadn't thought any further in that case. Originally, the change in mechanics was only about a skill in Ch/S, only afterwards did the whole thing develop in a somewhat larger sense.


    The only other possibility I would see would be to change the skill look. For example, one could reduce the selection circle enormously in order to circumvent possible obstacles. But leave the aoe or skill circle as it is. Unfortunately, I cannot say whether the problems of placement can be prevented in this case. A dev might have to comment on this. It might also be possible to simply fix the placement problems, but unfortunately I can't say anything about that either.


    Kind regards

    This is your point of view.

    I, on the other hand, see the possibility of using the healer's clothes, and not making a new one, instead of stamina, to gain intelligence. And to be able to do my own thing that way.

    How else could you do it? Sharpen it into stamina/maximum health? Make a set of clothes for one bundle?

    And he still won't gain as much magical attack as a mage.

    Quote from Kelpi

    I, on the other hand, see the possibility of using the healer's clothes, and not making a new one, instead of stamina, to gain intelligence. And to be able to do my own thing that way.

    Honestly this was also my first impression when I read this classes skills for the first time, so that you can switch between heal and dps in one gear. Would be similar to how champions work and I like the idea to enable healers to do that, as it usually is hard for healers with only one gear to do anything viable by themselves apart from healing in a party.

    Here once again an explanation from the dev/design team would be great to let us understand their intentions for this combo...;)


    Cheers! :thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Quote from Byte

    We do not plan to change any point and click skill to self/target cast at the moment.


    Greetings

    Thank you for commenting on that - I wonder if in that case something could be done to make the placing little more consistent?


    Furthermore, given then placing issue - please consider changing the mechanical storm to work similar to frantic briar so that at least not all aoe of ch/s would require the placing to work; thank you!

    Warrior: Increases physical damage by 5%, physical critical hit rate by 2500.

    Mage: Increases magical critical hit rate by 1500, magical damage by 1%.


    Hmm guess someone love warriors? xD

    Btw this force us to use this skill, m/ch needed 55 ring rage ISS... now I dont have space for it. You need to improve its rage management like for yesterday like swl have. Class is already sad, low matt, worst single burst, worst-painful-horrible plasma arrow and its burst aoe which was the best, now is nothing compared with some other mages, all this in a mage that needs to play melee xD This class have no buffs so it was a good sustained dmg class, now there is no reason to use it at all.

    Quote

    Knight

    Honorable Guard

    Passive

    Decreases received magical damage by 30%.

    (This effect cannot be used at same time with Honorable Fighter, Protection of Twilight, Heroic Spirit Guard.)

    I was always asking myself, why is there even received magical damage existing on other item set skills? Afaik there are no magical skills where I could use them, except in pvp. I just got them all, since they are all passives. :/ Better change it to 5% more Stamina or +10% Movementspeed, or even 5% decreased damage received... or give us a horse to mount on in instances for a specific time, I mean, we are Knights... what is a Knight without a horse? &)