Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Today i dod few runs in different dungeons as k/m tank and here are few of my toughts:

    1. First of all this combo have really nice potential to be good tank, becouse of changes in skill Holy Light Domain(491628) during patch 10.4.0.2002.


    2. Yet My toughts after few instances are that it lacks a bit of aggro boost in mentioned skill (aggro multiplier in skill)


    3. Way to improve it could be for example aggrobuff dependent like the one in Truth Shield Bash(490186).

    3a. Applying aggro multiply in Holy Light Domain(491628) looking same as in Truth Shield Bash(490186) where when you are under effect of Holy Power Explosion(490172) the aggro generated is much more impoved can be good in two ways.


    4. First it can help while playing k/m tank a lot. Second it can help while playing k/m as dps (i know ight now noone is playing it like that) where you still can use Holy Light Domain(491628) as usefull AoE dmg skill and do not generate too much aggro.


    I saw that currently main changes are focused on DPS class, but Tanks and (maybe mainly) Knight tanks should also get some love during class balance so they won't be considered as "weaker tank than champion tank".

    But thats my point. As it is such a strong burst class, in my opinion it shouldnt matter that it lacks in AOE dmg...

    And if trashmobs/bosses were to live longer in our current "endcontent" m/wl would perform much better overall.

    So as I see it, m/wl is not necessarily inferior the any other mage combinations, it is just not suited for instances like rofl, where everything dies too fast. There are multiple classes that suffer from this fact.

    I think when trying to balance them with each other we should take into consideration, that for different content certain classes will have a quite different performance and not only focus on rofl as a reference.


    Originally I had the impression, that Madoxx wanted to say that m/wl is too weak and only viable for its debuff support (which again noone needs in rofl, if its even possible to apply).

    If I was mistaken there and we agree that m/wl is not too weak in itself as a dps, just not suited for rofl, I guess we were simply talking past each other. :D


    Cheers!:thumbup:



    Edit: Is it possible that 1,2k posts are the currently allowed maximum for a thread? Because I cannot answer anymore... ^^

    deszcz2

    Were you running in plate gear or in (tanky statted) cloth gear?

    I dont think Holy Light Domain needs any aggro multiplier. As a tank in plate gear you have enough other AoE skills to generate aggro and dont have to rely on this skill, there you mainly use it for its defensive effects.

    And if you are playing k/m as mdps, having a aggro multiplier on this skill, even if bound to other buffs, would be of no use at all.

    Third possibilty would be tanking in tanky statted cloth gear, where you should have enough m-dmg/atk/crit overall to also generate enough aggro with your skills.

    So having any aggro multiplier on this skill would just result in tanks keeping this buff up all the time and doing nothing else, generating aoe aggro without any effort and having a massive defensive boost. Sounds too lazy for my taste. ;)

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Edited 2 times, last by melodic ().

    Quote from melodic

    deszcz2

    Were you running in plate gear or in (tanky statted) cloth gear?

    I dont think Holy Light Domain needs any aggro multiplier. As a tank in plate gear you have enough other AoE skills to generate aggro and dont have to rely on this skill, there you mainly use it for its defensive effects.

    And if you are playing k/m as mdps, having a aggro multiplier on this skill, even if bound to other buffs, would be of no use at all.

    I were running in plate gear (full stam/stam). (Becouse this way of stating have more use in other Knight tank combos.)

    It's true that you have few aoe skills but most of them are rly low in aggro generation (except for k/w Whirlwind Shield, and maybe k/r Dance of Two Blades as additional one AoE) even normal non buffed by eliteskills Whirlwind Shield generates average amount of aggo. Set skills AoE aggo is way too low it is almost nonexistent.
    Right now endcontent is mostly based on pulling lot of mobs so damage dealers can show they full potential.

    Quote from melodic

    And if you are playing k/m as mdps, having a aggro multiplier on this skill, even if bound to other buffs, would be of no use at all.

    aggo multiplier made as the one in Truth Shield Bash would not make this skliss non use, becouse without Holy Power Explosion, Truth Shield Bash generates aound 23 times less aggro. So if Holy Light Domain would have this kind of dependence it won't affect mdps k/m.


    Quote from melodic

    So having any aggro multiplier on this skill would just result in tanks keeping this buff up all the time and doing nothing else, generating aoe aggro without any effort and having a massive defensive boost. Sounds too lazy for my taste. ;)

    Yea that's true but right now it is how it looks on all Champion tanks. They have a lot more viable aggro AoEs like Shock Strike(not rly aoe but still moch better than Holy Strike), Rune Overload what generates huge amounts of aggro and can be keep without much effort up during mass pulls. Aggro generates by Champions are way easier to gain.


    Not to mention that they are doing it on same equipment as for dps only one different buff and maybe sliglty different skill sequence

    So yea i think change in this particular Skill can make this knight (k/m) much more usefull as tank, wearing tank knight gear(plate), statted like knight tank(in stam/stam). Becouse being Healthy and Hard with abilites to keep danger away from party members is how Knight tank should look like. (at least for my taste. ;) )

    Scout/Warlock

    • Reduced Elemental Disciple focus recovery chance to 30%, decreased recovered focus amount to 25.


    I think that this change will make this combination weaker again due to lack of concentration.

    The current shape of this skill is fine, at most you can reduce the amount of refocusing to 25.


    Greetings to .

    I disagree. Right now, you can just perma use target area without having to look once on your focus bar. No other physical Scout (except /warrior) is able to perma use target area. At the beginning most complains about this class were about focus management. Now you have no management at all because you generate so much focus, it's ridiculous.

    Personally, I like having a class that has somewhat resource management so you have to time certain skills/Potions in order to deal the maximum amount of damage, which is why I think this change is good.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Edited once, last by Laisha ().

    Like 6
    Quote from Byte

    From now on our change log will be announced during our discussion and test period within team in patch notes section of our website, in purpose of getting feedback from our community in real time before releasing a patch. You can read patch notes of current festival from here.


    You can continue to use this thread, or send private message to me in forum / in game to give your feedback.


    Greetings

    The best thing you could do. As I have already written. Listen to the suggestions of the community! The fact that you are now issuing planned changes in advance is a sensible step. This way we can judge beforehand what is useful and which changes will break a class in order to avoid unnecessary patching. Many thanks for that.


    Greets

    Quote from Serenadae

    Some Feedback regarding the upcoming patchnotes.


    Warrior:

    • Decreased Berserk defense loss to 13.1%. Thank you ! Much needed change, because even with high-tier golden gear it's a struggle for Berserk users to survive multiple mobs at once.
    • Decreased Iron Light Magic Ring Protection item set skill received area damage reduction to 10%. With this one I couldn't disagree more. This completely negates the benefit Warriors got from the Berserk change. Please don't change the AoE reduction.
    • Decreased Defensive Formation attack loss to 10.9%, decreased cooldown time to 60 seconds. Still a useless skill for PvE, at least in my Eyes. No one wants to reduce their patk. Please consider Reducing the defense increment to 30% and remove the downside altogether. Wardens have Elven Amulet, Champions Rune Growth and Rogues their 40% ISS.
    • Fixed Moon Cleave had unintentionally increased damage. Manageable for /Ch and /Wd (although they can't keep up with R/P and S/M anymore I'm afraid), but a strong nerf to any other Warrior. If it was unintended I do understand why you've changed it, but please consider generally increasing Moon Cleave's damage. 290% x3 with 1 sec channeltime just doesn't cut it compared to other AoEs we have nowadays. I think 450% for each hit would be reasonable.
    • Increased Powerhouse Sword duration to 20 seconds, decreased trigger cooldown to 20 seconds. Thank you, this will help, especially for the weak Warrior combinations.
    • Removed Surprise Attack range requirement to use, but knockdown effect still requires being further than 60 distance to be applied. Finally *-* So much quality of life for /Wd. Thank you !

    Knight/Warden:

    • Reduced Oak Walker’s Blessing received damage increment to 50%. Thank you ! Now the class is playable in rofl again.
    • Fixed Frantic Smash wasn’t consuming Holy Seal effects casted by caster. With the changes to Punishment, Holy Seal management might become an issue. I will test this and give feedback.

    Champion:

    • Increased Imprisonment Pulse damage by 8%. Very nice, thanks.
    • Increased Rune Growth cooldown and duration to 30 seconds. Another great quality of life change. Thanks.
    • Changed Clone Conversion to have 10% damage decrement for each extra target. Reasonable, although its impact on overall dps, especially for the weaker combinations has to be tested.
    • Fixed Soul Forge Mystery was able to retrigger without cooldown time, reduced its cooldown time to 10 seconds, changed critical damage gain to dark damage. Please don't do this. Ch/Wl needs the permanent dark damage Rune Pulse to keep up. For comparison, with better gear I was barely able to stand my ground against a R/D before the fix & the Poison dot buff. Please DON'T take this as a sign to nerf R/D, the class needed the buff. The dark damage buff can't make up for this, at least not in the long run.

    Agree with Sere on all points.

    Quote from Serenadae
    Quote from Rakot_Hades

    Me again:


    It seems that changes are worked on, i would like to bring one more time that ch/s focus issues still there - I made some suggestions before with arguably the easiest to change Pulsing shot to return 50 focus instead of the rage which champ has a lot of options to generate already - please add option to return actual focus not % regen, as % regen is not working very well since you have to move alot. The class has nice design but not comfortable nor pleasing to play atm when half of the time you have 0 focus and nothing you can do to address it unless your intention is to have it not use gun skills half the time - which in my opinion makes class not fun since whole concept is gun based champ. Please consider it.

    Agreed. Some other ideas to solve focus issues: Add Focus regeneration to Forge triggers OR Shock Overload. The Focus regen sadly doesn't help much.

    My suggestion in this regard would be similar to the Champion/Hexer, a replenishment of the focus with Fearless Strike.

    both priest and druid have kit skills that are rarely used or not used at all. Have you thought about changing them for priest / warrior or druid / warrior? Maybe many will disagree with me, but the skill set for the priest level 75 and 90 is useless

    Quote from mistika

    both priest and druid have kit skills that are rarely used or not used at all. Have you thought about changing them for priest / warrior or druid / warrior? Maybe many will disagree with me, but the skill set for the priest level 75 and 90 is useless

    I agree for the lv90 ISS, however th ereason for this skill rarely being used is not necessarily that its bad, it sjust that there are no viable mdps combinations for priests (which I honsetly dont care about :D) but if p/s or p/r would be oriented more into mpds, I guess the lv90 ISS will find its use.

    But I cannot disagree more that lv75 ISS is useless. Indeed it is used very reraly by most priests and I dont understand why until today. It is one of the strongest ISS priests have, supporting your mdps in raid and if you dont use that skill regularly as priest, its totally your own fault and loss.



    deszcz2

    I wont argue that Champions may have an easier time generating aggro than Knights, however Knights have way more sustainability and party support than Champions do.

    We agree that tanking is not only about generating aggro, but also about sustaining dmg taken and supporting your party offensively and defensively. At the moment Knights seem to be well balanced to each other, some are better at generating aggro, some are better at sustaining dmg and some are better in supporting your party and some are inbetween all that. And compared to Knights, the Champions traits in sustaining dmg and supporting are inferior, which is fair in my eyes.

    How strong Knights actually are in sustaining dmg is hard to judge atm, as most dmg taken in rofl is from mere whitehits which, once again, are fairly low and this is a point that needs to be looked at once we have challenging content again.


    And honestly if anything about Knights currently would need a change, I actually would propose slightly reducing the aggro done. I hardly play tank as champion, so I cant give any first hand experience there, but since champion dps dont play in Shield Form anymore, Knights had no real contender in holding aggro for a long time. When the cross-race combinations got their elite skills, some dps classes were added that may be a challenge holding aggro against, but apart from that its fairly easy to be top in the hatelist, as long as all dps are at -90% aggro.

    I wont discuss here how Knights work, but if you are having trouble generating aggro you should reconsider what buffs and skills you are using when and in what order, because as I said, I have no troubles at all.



    Cheers!:thumbup:


    Edit:

    Increased Arcanium Chamber epic ring active Fearless effect duration to 20 seconds.

    -- I dont think this is necessary, but if realized it would be nice to also apply this change to VN rings, as they are argueably even harder to get. ;)

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Edited once, last by melodic ().

    Warlock


    • Increased Weakening Weave Curse cooldown time to 8 seconds.

    I don't understand why you want to do this, it will weaken the warlock and all the other main classes using this skill again, and as far as I know it doesn't do so much damage that you have to extend its recovery time by 100%.

    Scout/Warlock


    I think the 30% for 25 is a bit too low, but 50% for 50 is definitely way too much.


    So maybe you could increase the focus per second cost for the buffs Target Area and Detection (which is really useful in rofl trash btw) and find some midway. Maybe 35% for 40 focus and let it have an internal cooldown of 1 second, since many scout skills can be triggered on the same gcd (if it's not already included).

    Hi,


    I am tanking right now with K/M in RoFL and I must say: AOE aggro is fine. it is same like K/P for example. Single target burst aggro is totally good. Better than K/R. I think second best burst knight aggro.


    Kind regards

    I would like to make a few suggestions for the warlock/warrior again. As already mentioned several times, the warlock classes perform very badly as mdps.


    Quote from Snickers0815

    Ruthless Judgement: You should always get the buff and the buff should get a CD of 20 seconds after expiration. Just like skills from many other classes.

    Still suggest this.


    ID498647: Increase the increase in dark damage back to 30%.


    ID499868: Reduce the CD to 3 minutes. There are many short-term buffs from other classes that are equally good or better and only have a CD of 1:30 or 2 minutes.


    ID498632: Increases the damage to the same value as shadow steb from warlock/rogue. The combination needs a good spamble skill. Currently the class does not have a good rage skill. In addition, it would be helpful to remove the gcd from the skill. Several other classes have a spamble non gcd skill. So the class could keep up wiht other classes.


    ID498645: Currently, the skill as an mdps is pointless because you don´t go into the will power construct. Here you could also consider changing the skill completely. Maybe a long-term buff or another rage damage skill.


    Of course that´s just my opinion. Maybe another warlock will comment on it ^^


    Kind regards

    I tested K/M last week in rofl as well. It felt kind of inconsistent in aggro sometimes, but this is my personal feeling. Aggro in general depends a lot of your cooldown management and support I guess. I also think aoe aggro is good as long as you use more than Holy Light Domain, which is just good as an insanely good support skill. I would aggree, it's definitely one of the best combos for rofl, especially in random partys.


    Maybe it could get some kind of offensive support, like reducing target defense with its silence (maybe instead of insta sigils, which isn't needed) or something, but not any class needs this to be viable ofc. ;)

    I Agree With Maddox Putting A Cooldown on Weakening Weave Curse is Not needed, Also the Devs should bring Titles For all Classes that use Poison.

    About Scout ,


    Genereal:

    I like the changes proposed in the DeV-Notes about the Combo-Shot and Piercing arrow. Give the scout some love :thumbup:


    Scout/Warrior:

    Thanks for reducing the Snipe CD by 1 second . Makes it more fluent to play in both burst/offburst and trash .


    Scout/Mage :

    Aoe is currently super strong (one of the best if not the best AoE currently) . Lets see how it performs after the Cold Flame shot gets it 24% decremeant .



    Greetings

    If you identify a UFO as a UFO , then it becomes an FO. Unless it has landed , then it is simply an -> O

    Like 3
    • Changed Psychic Rampage to modify Rune Pulse to inflict dark damage when it is active.

    Thank you !


    • Reduced Vampire Shot effect retrigger cooldown to 10 seconds, changes focus regeneration 80% focus consumption reduction.

    This should definitely help with focus sustain a lot.

    • Reduced Ruthless Judgment damage by 20%, replaced 50% HP requirement with inflicting critical damage requirement, added 10 seconds of effect trigger cooldown.

    Warlock/Warrior

    • Doubled Slash base damage.
    • Reduced Psychic Warrior cooldown time to 3 minutes.

    Mage/Priest

    • Increased Rising Tide base damage by 20%.
    • Changed Wave Essence to make Tide Burst always trigger Eruption while active.


    Thanks a lot. These changes should help :)

    Mage/Warlock

    • Increased Soul Pain damage over time by 400%.

    This change tells me you think of this class more as an dd than a supporter, which I really like. This increment is a nice adjustment to the already good damage Soul Pain deals with it's initial damage. The main problem I see is that, as already mentioned in some earlier posts, currently the trash dies so fast, it's impossoble to apply Elemental Extraction which is why you mostly use/have to use Soul Pain (1-2sec cast won't even finish casting, depending on the group). That leaves you pretty fast with no focus (and the fact that you are almost always moving doesn't help).

    So I suggest you let a skill,e.g. "Energy Influx", recover focus, which would help this classes damage, especially in the trash, and it's sustain damage.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 3
    • Reduced Vampire Shot effect retrigger cooldown to 10 seconds, changes focus regeneration 80% focus consumption reduction.

    Thanks for that, I think that should help with the focus problems.


    • Changed Psychic Rampage to modify Rune Pulse to inflict dark damage when it is active.

    I like . Thanks

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life

    Quote from Thormord

    Warrior/Champion in my opinion not a playable combination, most of the useful skills are based on loss hp. Without treatment it is impossible to play it.

    Thats what heals are for ;)

    Also you have 2 skills that recover your hp.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Edited once, last by Laisha ().

    Quote from Laisha
    Quote from Thormord

    Warrior/Champion in my opinion not a playable combination, most of the useful skills are based on loss hp. Without treatment it is impossible to play it.

    Thats what heals are for ;)

    Also you have 2 skills that recover your hp.


    Greetings.

    I think he doesn't have the blood rune weapon active, so you can easily burst for 30 seconds without falling over, and the skills eat up significantly more HP without it.

    #Play Champion Enjoy Your Life