Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

  • Please up damage to pets Warden / Warlock "Psychic Shadow", Warden / Rogue, Warden / Mage "Oak Walkerr".


    I also suggest changing the speed of summoning Psychic Shadow from 7.60 seconds to 3.80


    I also suggest changing setskill "Shadow of the Mist" on 15 minute buff. with parameters 8% physical attack 5% strength and -10% aggro.


    Warden / Warlock, Warden / Scout setskill "Chaos of Greed" useless in this class. I suggest making it useful for Psychic Shadow and Chiron the Centaur

  • I said Warriors, not only warrior/rogue btw ^^

  • I totaly agree scouts got no sustain at all. After burst or spells are on CD ur dps is non existant. Pls change something out of this we need some more sustain dmg. I love S/ch its fun to play but w/o sustain dmg kinda fall off from other classes. Leather gear is only for rogues at least in end game content.

    I run with revenant last couple of days who was either s/w or s/ch, and his overall dps was similar or same to my champ and warrior, and sustain seems to be fine, maybe he can comment more but to me it did not look like class was not doing well, rather opposite. Perhaps you are missing something?

  • In my opinion w/r before the nerf was way too strong, arguably was top dps across the board, so the nerf was needed (I rarely agree to any nerfs except when they nerf wizards :P). I dont know how it performs now but please note to fully unlock the class potential you need to have 2 t15 1-h axes, as significant part of damage is from offhand.


    I tried w/wd and its doing fine, saw w/ch doing fine as well and now it got little buff so will become even stronger but not sure yet how it compares with w/wd, probably may be stronger than w/wd, although w/wd has nice aoes.

  • Regarding Champion/Warlock:

    Soul Forge Mystery's buff doesn't have a cd, contrary to what the description says. Wether this is intended and the localization just hasn't been updated yet, or a bug, I'd highly advise to keep it that way, since it allows Ch/Wl to reasonably keep up with most other classes.

  • Rogue/Druid


    • Halved Poison Shroud damage over time effect.


    This change was unnexessary. The increase in damage to the skill was necessary and made the combination playable. Now the combination does too little damage again. Please change the damage again or change the interval from the dot from 2 seconds to 1 second.


    Kind regards

  • Hi,


    Could another player or Dev tell me how Poison Shroud and Toxic Splash dots are calculated? Because Posion Shroud has 3408 damage and Toxic Splash has 16220 damage, but with Posion Shroud I do a lot more damage.


    Thanks in advance :D


    Kind regards

  • Some Feedback regarding the upcoming patchnotes.


    Warrior:

    • Decreased Berserk defense loss to 13.1%. Thank you ! Much needed change, because even with high-tier golden gear it's a struggle for Berserk users to survive multiple mobs at once.
    • Decreased Iron Light Magic Ring Protection item set skill received area damage reduction to 10%. With this one I couldn't disagree more. This completely negates the benefit Warriors got from the Berserk change. Please don't change the AoE reduction.
    • Decreased Defensive Formation attack loss to 10.9%, decreased cooldown time to 60 seconds. Still a useless skill for PvE, at least in my Eyes. No one wants to reduce their patk. Please consider Reducing the defense increment to 30% and remove the downside altogether. Wardens have Elven Amulet, Champions Rune Growth and Rogues their 40% ISS.
    • Fixed Moon Cleave had unintentionally increased damage. Manageable for /Ch and /Wd (although they can't keep up with R/P and S/M anymore I'm afraid), but a strong nerf to any other Warrior. If it was unintended I do understand why you've changed it, but please consider generally increasing Moon Cleave's damage. 290% x3 with 1 sec channeltime just doesn't cut it compared to other AoEs we have nowadays. I think 450% for each hit would be reasonable.
    • Increased Powerhouse Sword duration to 20 seconds, decreased trigger cooldown to 20 seconds. Thank you, this will help, especially for the weak Warrior combinations.
    • Removed Surprise Attack range requirement to use, but knockdown effect still requires being further than 60 distance to be applied. Finally *-* So much quality of life for /Wd. Thank you !

    Druid/Warrior:

    • Removed Natural Attack global cooldown trigger. Thanks, this will make AoE much more smoother.
    • Changed Heart Piercing to trigger global cooldown time. Although using a gdc (Heart Piercing) and non-gcd (Slash) skill is smoother than using two without gcd, I would have much more preferred if you gave Slash a gcd and removed it from Heart Pierce again. Why ? Because it restores rage, hence should be used first.
    • Reduced Heart of the Wild 2-H Axe damage gain to 112%. I don't see why a class that can barely hold its ground against other combinations should be nerfed. Please keep it at 120%.
    • Removed Cross Thorn Blow global cooldown trigger, increased fix damage portion to 4 x STR. Again, a change that makes the rotation smoother.

    Knight/Warden:

    • Reduced Oak Walker’s Blessing received damage increment to 50%. Thank you ! Now the class is playable in rofl again.
    • Fixed Frantic Smash wasn’t consuming Holy Seal effects casted by caster. With the changes to Punishment, Holy Seal management might become an issue. I will test this and give feedback.

    Champion:

    • Increased Imprisonment Pulse damage by 8%. Very nice, thanks.
    • Increased Rune Growth cooldown and duration to 30 seconds. Another great quality of life change. Thanks.
    • Changed Clone Conversion to have 10% damage decrement for each extra target. Reasonable, although its impact on overall dps, especially for the weaker combinations has to be tested.
    • Fixed Soul Forge Mystery was able to retrigger without cooldown time, reduced its cooldown time to 10 seconds, changed critical damage gain to dark damage. Please don't do this. Ch/Wl needs the permanent dark damage Rune Pulse to keep up. For comparison, with better gear I was barely able to stand my ground against a R/D before the fix & the Poison dot buff. Please DON'T take this as a sign to nerf R/D, the class needed the buff. The dark damage buff can't make up for this, at least not in the long run.

    Sorry for the wall of text, but I think if we get the chance to present feedback on upcoming changes, we should use this opportunity thoroughly.

  • Some Feedback regarding the upcoming patchnotes.


    Warrior:

    • Fixed Moon Cleave had unintentionally increased damage. Manageable for /Ch and /Wd (although they can't keep up with R/P and S/M anymore I'm afraid)...

    Need to say that r/p AOE is not so strong anymore after upcoming patch like warriors AOE. r/p is nerfed to 6 targets.

    But yes, S/M AOE is too strong in my opinion as it I already said.

  • Some Feedback regarding the upcoming patchnotes.


    Warrior:

    • Fixed Moon Cleave had unintentionally increased damage. Manageable for /Ch and /Wd (although they can't keep up with R/P and S/M anymore I'm afraid)...

    Need to say that r/p AOE is not so strong anymore after upcoming patch like warriors AOE. r/p is nerfed to 6 targets.

    But yes, S/M AOE is too strong in my opinion as it I already said.

    You forgot to mention that Holy Surge gets capped at 6 targets, BUT gets buffed in terms of damage.

    Moreover, R/P still has the same excellent burst damage. Out of all Warriors (if not all classes across the board) only /Ch can keep up with that. Moon Cleave in its current(290x3) state is too weak compared to most other AoEs. It's only worth using in burst and even then doesn't do much damage. R/P on the other hand has very good sustained AoE and especially excells at damaging smaller packs.

    W/Wd has a weaker non gcd spammable, singletarget and AoE. Not to mention that they both don't do elemental damage like Kick & Holy Surge. R/P has a very strong, permanent patk buff (yes, 18% is still a lot!). I'm absolutely positive that W/Wd can't keep up with that after the Moon Cleave change.

    W/Ch has the same burst potential like R/P I'd say, but looses in terms of sustained damage. We'll have to see how this plays out.

    And thats even without taking into account, that R/P is much, much more tanky than any of the two, thanks to Patience and Salvation, Holy Surge & Target Defense iss.

  • And you forgot that the permanent patk buff is nerfed too.

    I stay at my opinion, that the AOE of r/p is nerfed with upcoming patch (nerf was needed!) but also in my opinion the sustained AOE of r/p will be a bit better than from r/wrd. The main problem (i guess a lot of players will not play it because of that) of the AOE is the 5% mana usage per click.


    Anyway the push from 620% to 930% for Holy Surge is not needed, even if it only hits 6 targets. R/P and R/Wrd are/should more single target dps than AOE dps.


    I would suggest to reduce the Holy Surge damage to 520% (like Power of the Oak Spirit of R/Wrd). The sustain single target of this class is strong enough like from r/wrd

  • Please consider that this list doesn’t represent the actual patch content and might be different when patch is released.

    Lets hope! Because I have no words.

    Mdps changes.

    Good things, thing sorry, there is only 1.

    • Changed Voice of the Sea item set skill to transfer remaining cooldown time of Elemental Catalysis to itself.

    Smart idea.


    Now let's go to the terrific changes which I hope none of them appear.

    • Decreased Weapon Guard item set skill received area damage reduction to 5%.

    After making w/m atleast viable, now we cant even go melee until b2.


    Changed Unity with Mother Earth to Focus of Mother Nature, increases physical and magical damage by 30%

    That might help a bit during burst, although toxic arrow dmg should be increased. Full buffs it barely do 9kk hits on best scenario, its ridiculous.


    but reduces area damage by 100%.

    Honestly, what are you thinking?. In druid/warrior maybe? D/wl used this skill because it was keeping nature points while you had it active, I guess was a bug instead of a non noted change. Remove the non moving thing...


    Druid/warlock

    Increased Summon Sandstorm damage decrement for each extra target to 16%, set empowered damage to 4080 instead of 3614 + 1240.

    This skill needed an improve in radious not a huge nerf in dmg.


    Reduced Toxic Possesion received damage decrement to 75%

    You should be so carefull with changing this skill, class barely reach 200k hp. Doing big nerfs on it would imply we can't even test it anymore.

    This class was already the worst dps I ever tested. If these changes are made it won't be viable at all. Class need burst improve not these nonsense nerfs.


    Warlocks.

    • Increased Weakening Weave Curse cooldown time to 8 seconds.

    This skill is basic not only in warlocks main but in warlock as second class, are you sure you thought that change right? All x/wl need aoe nerf?


    Mage/warlock

    Changed Elemental Extraction to Forgotten Black Magic, Decreases targets physical and magical defense by equal to 70% of your magical attack. This value can’t exceed 30% of targets magical defense.

    Question, is this class a dps or a support? It has the worst mobs dmg on game just to put a debuff on bosses. Now we need best mdps gear to do it? That makes no sense, supports should help non geared people to join runs while they feel helpful, not require golden gear just to use a debuff.


    I like we have notes early assuming you do it to know our opinion and that you will listen to us (finally?). I'm so so so so horrificaly disappointed with all these mdps changes.


    One proposition, change Warden/Druid scale to cast instead of speed attack. We are losing curse rune in talisman and cast speed from upper set. If we are mostly a mdps support, it makes no sense we have to play lute. Did you find out why staff is better than wand until we are almost full buffed?Also increase 10% mattack buff range to 200, you won't ever find a mdps on 70 range of the mob xD.

  • Regarding upcoming patchnotes for Scouts


    Scout/Warlock

    • Fixed Vampire Arrows had wrong cooldown time.
    • Reduced Elemental Disciple focus recovery chance to 30%, decreased recovered focus amount to 25.


    A mdps scout. But what is with the pdps scouts? There is only 1 Scout that is really viable with other good dps classes, the Scout/mage. And this Scout/Mage is totally overpowered in AOE damage. All other Scouts nearly have no AOE damage.

    All Scouts have not a good burst damage like Scout/Warlock or rogues (wound attack does with my t15 dagger same damage or more full buffed like Snipe with t18 bow -.- and wound attack has only 6 sec cd)

    All Scouts does not have a good sustain damage. Far behind rogues and warriors (don't know how it is with wardens. we don't have one). You can catch up to champions in sustain damage and have a bit better sustain than champs right now, but that's all. comparing with champions you lack of AOE massively.


    I have the feeling, that the scout is such a child, that nobody wants anymore :/ Maybe that's why nearly no random group has a scout, except scout/mage which should definitly be nerfed in AOE!

  • Quote
    • Fixed Moon Cleave had unintentionally increased damage. Manageable for /Ch and /Wd (although they can't keep up with R/P and S/M anymore I'm afraid), but a strong nerf to any other Warrior. If it was unintended I do understand why you've changed it, but please consider generally increasing Moon Cleave's damage. 290% x3 with 1 sec channeltime just doesn't cut it compared to other AoEs we have nowadays. I think 450% for each hit would be reasonable.

    I agree with Sere 100% - while 750x3 was too much, 290*3 for 1s channel skill is too low and often not even used - please change it to 450% x 3 or make it 900 % instant, that would be a nice compromise


    Quote
    • Increased Powerhouse Sword duration to 20 seconds, decreased trigger cooldown to 20 seconds. Thank you, this will help, especially for the weak Warrior combinations.


    I agree but could you also consider increasing damage some - I suggest change from 580% to 680%


    Also changes to probing attack - warr is still better off with using 2h hammer over same tier 2h axe or sword, thus i suggest to add bleed from slash to be implemented when using 2h weapons, not just axe/sword, would help warr too, else the probing attack buff is largely irrelevant


    Since you guys are looking at ISS, could you do something with the Attack Stance, atm it is absolutely useless since damage is lower than open flank, and open flank uses less rage; perhaps, consider increasing its dps to match or get close to the open flank + change the Attack Stance to increase physical attack speed by 15% or change the Attack Stance to debuff pd or md.

  • Forgot to add:


    Quote
    • Decreased Iron Light Magic Ring Protection item set skill received area damage reduction to 10%. With this one I couldn't disagree more. This completely negates the benefit Warriors got from the Berserk change. Please don't change the AoE reduction.

    I agree with Sere as well, please dont implement it, for packed groups that was only saving thing, please keep it as is, this is a nice unique aspect of a warrior.

  • Also changes to probing attack - warr is still better off with using 2h hammer over same tier 2h axe or sword, thus i suggest to add bleed from slash to be implemented when using 2h weapons, not just axe/sword, would help warr too, else the probing attack buff is largely irrelevant

    At least having such a change for Ch/W would be much appreciated, the class even has 2h hammer as the highest weapon level, so it would make sense.

  • Me again:


    It seems that changes are worked on, i would like to bring one more time that ch/s focus issues still there - I made some suggestions before with arguably the easiest to change Pulsing shot to return 50 focus instead of the rage which champ has a lot of options to generate already - please add option to return actual focus not % regen, as % regen is not working very well since you have to move alot. The class has nice design but not comfortable nor pleasing to play atm when half of the time you have 0 focus and nothing you can do to address it unless your intention is to have it not use gun skills half the time - which in my opinion makes class not fun since whole concept is gun based champ. Please consider it.

  • Me again:


    It seems that changes are worked on, i would like to bring one more time that ch/s focus issues still there - I made some suggestions before with arguably the easiest to change Pulsing shot to return 50 focus instead of the rage which champ has a lot of options to generate already - please add option to return actual focus not % regen, as % regen is not working very well since you have to move alot. The class has nice design but not comfortable nor pleasing to play atm when half of the time you have 0 focus and nothing you can do to address it unless your intention is to have it not use gun skills half the time - which in my opinion makes class not fun since whole concept is gun based champ. Please consider it.

    Agreed. Some other ideas to solve focus issues: Add Focus regeneration to Forge triggers OR Shock Overload. The Focus regen sadly doesn't help much.

  • Some Feedback regarding the upcoming changes.


    Rogue

    • Increased Claw Scar item set skill damage to 900%.
    • Increased Demon Wolf Claw item set skill damage to 750%.

    Good idea. But I´m not sure whether both skills still remain pointless because I would normally prefer my skills with element damage. So I would suggest lowering the damage a bit to make the damage into element damage dependent on the secondary class, as is the case with some Mage skills.


    Rogue/Druid

    • Doubled Poison Shround damage over time value.

    Much appreciated.


    Rogue/Warrior

    • Increased Poisonous Explosion cooldown time to 6 seconds.

    I´m not sure if 6 seconds is a bit high. But I will then test that together with the other adjustments of the rogue/warrior.



    Warlocks.

    Increased Weakening Weave Curse cooldown time to 8 seconds.

    This skill is basic not only in warlocks main but in warlock as second class, are you sure you thought that change right? All x/wl need aoe nerf?

    I agree with Madox.


    Decreased Berserk defense loss to 13.1%. Thank you ! Much needed change, because even with high-tier golden gear it's a struggle for Berserk users to survive multiple mobs at once.

    It´s a blessing.

    Decreased Defensive Formation attack loss to 10.9%, decreased cooldown time to 60 seconds. Still a useless skill for PvE, at least in my Eyes. No one wants to reduce their patk. Please consider Reducing the defense increment to 30% and remove the downside altogether

    Agree


    Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback on upcaming changes before the changes. This is a good way to get the community involved in the balancing process. Provided that the feedback is also listened to ^^


    Kind regards

    • Official Post

    From now on our change log will be announced during our discussion and test period within team in patch notes section of our website, in purpose of getting feedback from our community in real time before releasing a patch. You can read patch notes of current festival from here.


    You can continue to use this thread, or send private message to me in forum / in game to give your feedback.


    Greetings

  • From now on our change log will be announced during our discussion and test period within team in patch notes section of our website, in purpose of getting feedback from our community in real time before releasing a patch. You can read patch notes of current festival from here.


    You can continue to use this thread, or send private message to me in forum / in game to give your feedback.


    Greetings

    Dear Byte and Devs team - thank you, this is awesome news and much appreciated change, lets hope it works well but def step into the right direction!

  • Increased Realm of the Forgotten Legends first boss offensive attributes.

    -- Highly overdue. Thanks a lot for this one! Please consider doing this for the other bosses as well.



    Changed Unity with Mother Earth to Focus of Mother Nature, increases physical and magical damage by 30% but reduces area damage by 100% 30%, also makes your spells do not consume Nature’s Power while active.

    -- I like this change very much, seems like an ideal all-in-one solution for all druid combinations.

    Just one question: Will this AOE decrease also affect AOE healing? If so, you might consider limiting it to AOE-dmg only, as druids rely a lot on AOE healing, thus ending up still not using this skill very much.



    Changed Elemental Extraction to Forgotten Black Magic, Decreases targets physical and magical defense by equal to 70% of your magical attack. This value can’t exceed 30% of targets magical defense.

    -- Basicly I like this skilldesign, but I dont really know if is change is for the better or worse.

    I disagree with Madoxx that this class is doing low dmg compared to other mages. It just deals SLOW dmg, thats why it is underperforming in current "endcontent". I have quite outdated mage gear and always did my best dmg in Jerath event with this combination, even compareable dmg with other mage combinations with stronger gear.

    But I agree that m/wl always was a class with which newcomers had an easy way to endcontent and (again, current content makes it worse) you aleady nerfed this skill/debuff since it takes longer to apply it on targets.

    Furthermore would this debuff be the strongest during bursts, when you (and supposedly your raid) have most matk/patk anyway and the weakest during offburst, where everyone has lowest atk values. So practicly its effectiveness would be lower when the debuff is stronger and vice versa. Somehow paradox.



    Also I like the direction you took with these "planned patchnotes", it certainly will help both you and us, but still this does not include us more in your reasoning and still all we can do is say "Oh no, please don't" when we cant understand why you made certain changes. Just now we can do it earlier. ;)


    Cheers! :thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

  • Changed Elemental Extraction to Forgotten Black Magic, Decreases targets physical and magical defense by equal to 70% of your magical attack. This value can’t exceed 30% of targets magical defense.

    -- Basicly I like this skilldesign, but I dont really know if is change is for the better or worse.

    I disagree with Madoxx that this class is doing low dmg compared to other mages. It just deals SLOW dmg, thats why it is underperforming in current "endcontent". I have quite outdated mage gear and always did my best dmg in Jerath event with this combination, even compareable dmg with other mage combinations with stronger gear.

    Would be sad if you didn't do that, m/wl have one of the strongest burst single target out of all mages. Most of dmg in rofl isn't organs or balton :) As I said, mobs dmg which is probably 80% of overall dmg and, in my opinion, what I care about for a dps.

  • Ok so with m/wl, it has one of the best single target bursts of mages like Madox said but that is not where the class is underperforming. Having slow dmg is no dmg when it comes to trash most times you can't cast a single target cast more than 1 time if you are lucky per mob, and the aoe damage on this class is not very high at all.