Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Not sure how quoting in-line works, so just going to paste your quotes espar91.

Espar91:

why it is requiring an aoe increment if class is already doing great in overall? it don't need to beat everything in everywhere

I never requested a direct buff / increment to the damage of Enlivened Blade. I said other classes see LESS drop-off on AoE skill damage when attacking multiple targets (vs r/m), and that doesn't make sense to me.

Espar91:
are you aware of existence of earth pulse skill? because it is literally same as r/wd potws, but not limited to 6 targets and has no damage loss for each extra target. i am dealing 8kk damage per hit with this skill, and it has no gcd. it is hitting all 15 targets for sure because it is hitting only to targets between you and target, and still having 60kk per sec while bursting groups.

When I responded I thought it was still a 10s CD; I was confusing it with m/d.

Espar91:
devs already mentioned that they aren't planning to make rogue a 6 dex build months ago, so i don't know what are you trying to say. 90% of server is using 3/3 build for rogue already and that is identity of this class here.

??? Your argument for leather-based rogue/warden being better is that it uses DEX modifiers. So the best way to give an equivalent comparison and see how damage differs due to DEX vs STR modifiers is to compare full DEX (leather) vs full STR (chain).

Espar91:

how come instance doesn't matter? xD i am playing r/m in rofl and 30-35% of my overall damage is from enlivened blade as most damage, so what is the problem? maybe you are using wrong offhand so it is dealing low damage since its skills are dealing double damage and one is depending on your offhand, similar to r/wl white hits.

I've explained multiple times "why the instance doesn't matter". For the last time: The damage value itself is irrelevant, the issue is that mages don't see a 10x+ drop-off in damage when AoEing large groups like r/m does. If AoE is supposed to be one of the strongest points of the class (and giving it a no energy cost, 1s cd skill seems to be the idea behind that) then it shouldn't see its damage decreased so much when hitting multiple mobs while mages (and apparently rogue/druid) don't.

• Reduced Elemental Catalysis duration to 20 seconds, reduced cooldown to 4 minutes.

Just why?

Quote from Ravinous

- rogue/mage has decent aoe yet it got buff with current patch which i have no idea what they are trying but it is now clearly a broken rogue for rofl in my opinion. its aoe was comparable to r/wd aoe, yet you are saying r/wd is too strong, it isn't logical, rogue/mage has strong aoe even with damage loss against extra targets. to compare, it doesn't make sense in terms of information, yes, because there is no indicator in tooltip or so, from devs, i would suggest to add damage loss on tooltip like they did for radius information.

- i am comparing proper rogue gear ( 3/3 dex/str build ) versus proper chain gear ( 6 str build ), 6 dex build isn't something to compare with anything, it is just cheap way of building leather and not best build so not eligible for a comparison. it is like comparing 3 dex 3 sta gear with 6 str gear and complaining why it isn't being better with r/wd, because 6 str is best build when 6 dex isn't.

Thank you for the Ch/S change to Vampiric Enhancement, helps a lot ! However, the problem that Pulsing Shot knocks back and requires movement (which cancels out the bonus to Focus regen) remains.

Please consider removing it, it serves no purpose and is unnecessarily annoying.

Few comments:

• Reduced Unity with Mother Earth cooldown time to 60 seconds.

Nice try but, most of the times useless. We already have more than enough crit in mobs and can't afford to stand there xD. In boss might help I guess. This should give something else worth to use.

-Druid/warlock, I suggest to change cd of Focused in Nature from 30s to 10s. Atleast this could help us to manage nature points from aoes and spammable combo skills. Right now is insane and didn't do anything to fix it.

-Druid/rogue, Im glad you guys didn't forget this is a dps (or should be). Would like to see same change as dwl in aoe dmg with some kind of nature point management of it aswell.

• Changed Magic Turmoil to increase magical damage by 20.8% instead.

Good start although it still misses a bit mattack boost somewhere. Waiting to see what you guys do about its burst potential since is 0 atm.

-Warden/druid, speed attack formula is just not right. It requires lute+stimulant as extra attack speed for wand to equal staff dmg. We will need to use 2 dif weapons depending on our buffs every minute? that doesn't feel good.

Quote from Serenadae

Thank you for the Ch/S change to Vampiric Enhancement, helps a lot ! However, the problem that Pulsing Shot knocks back and requires movement (which cancels out the bonus to Focus regen) remains.

Please consider removing it, it serves no purpose and is unnecessarily annoying.

I agree, please remove the pushback! I would also suggest to remove focus regen penalty with movement, make it similar to energy for rogue or at least just have focus regen same regardless you move or not - ch/s has to be in melee range to do damage and thus moves alot, please consider it

Another comment regarding d/w: since it is a melee class similar to p/w, please consider implementing pd/hp like you recently did for p/w, since both classes work similar, it would make sense. At the moment, wo pd + using berserk means pd drops so low that death on stack of mobs is very likely, and since d/w is close combat class you need some pd to survive. Alternatively, at very least consider not decrease pd which is already low with the berserk.

One more suggestion on d/w - at the moment, single target rotation is 2 non-gcd skills + cross thorn blow, and natural attack is not optimal to use since it takes time to cast that thus limits non-gcd skills. I suggest you either change natural attack to instant then it can be part of rotation or consider adding another damage skill so that rotation would be more than 3 skills - at the moment, one extra skill is really needed to make rotation complete or make natural attack instant that way would be used for rotation on a single target.

Thanks!

Scout/Mage - he has Arson! Why another incomprehensible aoe?

Scout/Champion - When will you increase Autoshoot range?

Regarding latest Patch Scout/Mage:

Changed Cursed Arrow to Cold Flame Shot, Inflicts 225% ranged weapon DPS fire damage to targets within 60 radius of caster, at level 55 with a cooldown time changes depending on ranged weapon with 6% damage reduction for each extra target.

This skill is not really usefull. Within large mob groups of 5+ mobs, you are safe dead as a scout if you haven't your damage reduce up. At lower amount of mobs Ignite is still better.

I think I know the idea behind the new Cold Flame Shot, but now this class has lower single target without comprehention of higher AOE. I think this is the same problem like the Scout/champ has. Staying in melee range (60) to use this skill is uncomfortable to play.

Quote from xLutinex

Changed Cursed Arrow to Cold Flame Shot, Inflicts 225% ranged weapon DPS fire damage to targets within 60 radius of caster, at level 55 with a cooldown time changes depending on ranged weapon with 6% damage reduction for each extra target.

Just a noob-non-scout question: Wouldnt it help changing the skill to deal dmg withing 60 range of TARGET instead of CASTER, additional to giving the shot itself a reasonable range?

Quote from melodic

Quote from xLutinex

Changed Cursed Arrow to Cold Flame Shot, Inflicts 225% ranged weapon DPS fire damage to targets within 60 radius of caster, at level 55 with a cooldown time changes depending on ranged weapon with 6% damage reduction for each extra target.

Just a noob-non-scout question: Wouldnt it help changing the skill to deal dmg withing 60 range of TARGET instead of CASTER, additional to giving the shot itself a reasonable range?

would not change a lot because:

1.) If you need a target and the target dies (especially is a ghost -> disappears after few seconds) you need to tab tab tab and need luck to hit. In this case, Ignite would do more sense in my opinion because you don't need a target

2.) Ignite does more damage till 6-8 mobs

Rogue/Knight Punishment (490074) has a wrong ID-link in its tooltip by now. It should say "Holy Seal", as before and after in the description, not "Holy Smite".

Furthermore adding the fact that all Holy Seals will be consumed to all Punishment tooltips might be helpful.

I believe 490073 490074 490075 490151 499909 are all variants IDs.

Cheers!

Few thoughts about this year balance and where things are going.

Overall im happy with the job done so far, mages are viable yuhuu, thats a win. Rest of magical classes? Disapointing.

I see you guys are focusing a lot of magical classes into "sup" material, we keep asking you to stop, to change that but is just simply like talking to a wall.

-Mage/rogue. Class is missing dmg, we asked to remove what you call sup potential and make it proper mdps but no, instead you give the sup buff a bit more dmg?

-Warden/druid. Same. It was a great mdps and could be hybrid magical tank. Ignored all our comments and turned this class into a small support with low sustain, not good single burst and terrible aoe burst. Btw, magical tank is gone, hybrid and full tank gear.

-Warrior/mage. Useless. Zero aoe and bad single burst. Aswell really low mattack.

-Knight/mage. Well, already talked about this few weeks ago, still no improvement on any direction dps or tank.

-Scout/warlock, everyone is using it. 3 nerfs in 3 patches. It will end up being useless at this way in couple of weeks, like happened to m/r and wd/d over the last months.

-New change on mages 5 min skill. Some mages needed 60s of bursting to reach other dps dmg like in last boss or organs, now mages like mch or mr with low single burst pontential are screwed. Consider improving the dmg of those classes 3s spammable skills.

-Druids: warlock and rogue... I hope we can make them viable dps.

-New warlocks. Please, please, please give us mdps! not supports!!

As a lot of people suggested, I would like some info on why some changes are taken, some feedback from Byte/Thor on why they turn down our propositions and do literally the opposite. We are the ones testing 24/7 every possible combo, give us atleast some credit and imagine we know a bit about the things we are proposing.

After this book, happy new year to everyone

Change in boss 3 -

I like the change, however, it still does not solve the issue if someone is using BA for example - hp still runs out quick... I wonder if it could be possible to make char immune inside the organs within the time limit, that way can use BA or similar and dont bleed out, else you cant really use a bleed buff inside for long.

Thanks!

Ahoi ,

about the recent (PDD)Scout changes :

Scout/Rogue :

- Thanks for reverting the changes to Deadly Poison bite

- The changes to Poisonous Spit are a good start in the right direction but need some polishing in my opinion . Currently the DoT is too low ~350-500k per tick (low Dot damage is a problem here and another is that the trash dies rather quick and so the DoT cant really use its whole duration) . Overall in the ini the dmg output is around 1-2% from my whole damage.

A option to adjust this would be maybe to increase the damage and let the damage be dealt by whole instantly (like a entling offering from s/wd) when its triggers from combo shot / reflecting shot.

What we also observed is that the DoT is calculated by your mainhand weapon , so theoretically having a graded mainhand would be BiS here . Is this intended or not ? ( if not maybe the calculation can be changed to scale with ranged dmg or patk ?)

Scout/Mage :

I dont fully understand these changes .

You reduced the allready weak single target damage by nerfing wind whistle even more

I am not a fan of the Cold Flame Shot . 225% with a 60 range is suicide in rofl when more then 2 mobs are present .

And before some people start to argue "but u cant compare everything with rofl there are also other inis" Using a skill with 60 range is useless (as scout) in 99% of the time as you can just start shooting from range and do more dmg in the time it would take you to run in the range to hit mobs with the 60 range Skill.

Sidenote : Cold Flame shot´s CD seems to be not correct . With Bow equiped it says 2 second CD but it has 1 second CD. With X-Bow equipped it says 3 seconds CD but it has 1 second CD

Scout/Druid :

Nice QoL Change to have Elven Eye permanently

Scout/Priest:

Pushed it even more in the Category of a Support with the Blessing Shot changes

Greetings

Quote from Madox

-Druid/warlock, I suggest to change cd of Focused in Nature from 30s to 10s. Atleast this could help us to manage nature points from aoes and spammable combo skills. Right now is insane and didn't do anything to fix it.

Fully support this idea.

Another idea I had is that you give "Weakening wave curse"(1490761) the chance to restore Points of Nature. That would at least somewhat counter the endless Points of Nature that Sandstorm consumes.

Greetings.

490192

ID 490192. The rogue / knight has this skill in the general Knight skills, but you cannot use it, because rogue cannot equip shield, change skill or remove shield equip requirement

Against it. There are many classes that can't use the skills of the secondary class.

Rogue/Knight would be way too strong in tanking

Các bác sĩ cho biết thêm:

Quote from mistika

490192

ID 490192. The rogue / knight has this skill in the general Knight skills, but you cannot use it, because rogue cannot equip shield, change skill or remove shield equip requirement

haha.so class Ch/K can use Shield and ---> titan Tank

- Fixed Briar Shield was conflicting with similar buffs of other classes.

Still. Does. Not. Work.

Also please change Holy Candle (all variants) to a toggle skill similar to scouts Blood Arrow. I dont care if you also add 10sec CD or not.

Cheers!

Knight/Warden

Shield Bash skill description says, if you are under the effect of "Holy Power Explosion", the aggro of the skill will be increased (like on any other knight ^^).

Unfortunately it does not increase the aggro while under effect.

Kind regards

Druid/warlock:

Did a few rofls with it. There are a lot of aspects that are well balanced, it has good survival, it has good mattack and specially it has decent aoes.

-Aoes: are good as they are now, so to fix the other problem this class have, I hope aoes don't get overpowered, they are really balanced imho now. Even with the 5 NP per use, that make you think when to use them and not spam them without control.

-My previous proposition to reduce cd of skill which give 10 NP to 10s. I take it back . With 30s it allows you to do some burst aoes and that should be enough, they have good dmg.

-Main problem of the class (and is a huge problem), single target dmg. Is reeaaaaaaaaaally low. Earth arrow, toxic arrow and nature poison dmg should be increased like 20-30%.

-Also single burst potential is low, almost non existant. I suggest to increase fusion with mother earth from 15s to 20s and while is on, make skills do a small extra hit, for example. Have to remember this skill is pretty useless unless is used in boss.

-To control NP during burst I would suggest that nature poison (the skill that finishes the combo) should recover 2x of NP it gives right now.

In general I really like the class.

Mage

• Reduced Voice of the Sea cooldown to 4 minutes.
• Reduced Elemental Catalysis duration to 20 seconds, reduced cooldown to 4 minutes.
  
  As for me, an absolutely unnecessary fix, bosses do not live so long that the catalyst has time to roll back, more important was the fact that it weighs 30 seconds and then it resets and again 30 seconds.The mage already has a fairly long caste, and they also reduced the catalysis by 10 seconds...

Quote from Kerelis

Mage

• Reduced Voice of the Sea cooldown to 4 minutes.
• Reduced Elemental Catalysis duration to 20 seconds, reduced cooldown to 4 minutes.
  
  As for me, an absolutely unnecessary fix, bosses do not live so long that the catalyst has time to roll back, more important was the fact that it weighs 30 seconds and then it resets and again 30 seconds.The mage already has a fairly long caste, and they also reduced the catalysis by 10 seconds...

That wasn't a fix, it was a nerf. As Madoxx already mentioned there are bosses (Rofl, b3 e.g.) where you needed the 1min you could burst before this nerf. I also strongly opose to this change. There are bosses that life long enough, or have different phases that go longer than 20sec, where you now also deal less damage. The 4min cd is nice, but during a boss fight unneccesary, so this is only good for trash.

Greetings.

would still like it if you could add in Warriors that can do elemental type of damage.

Scout/Mage:

Elite skills lvl 70 - Healing in this skill is a failure, it's not better if the spell restores 2% hp for 2 second or 5% for 5 second? At least it will be useful.

Scout/Mage:

In my opinion Cold Flame Shot is useless

Option 1:

More useful would be the skill that could be reduce the target's defenses or increase critical damage or both at the same time e.g. 10% each.

Option 2:

Change the fireball into ranged damage per second. e.g. 80% + 8% per level or 70% + 7% per level + 0.2 x dex.