Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Something additional to Scout/Champ

Because of the 15% damage increase of blood arrow, the class is impossible to play for nearly all players. I am fullbuffed nearly one shot in RofL with my gear. I would say, that every normal player is totally one shot in RofL.

At this state of this class, I would suggest every scout player to play an other sec-class. Don't do the gun right now.

Maybe reconsider the 15% damage increase and remove it or change it to 5% damage decrease, because as a leather class, you have really low def.

Kind regards

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Quote from Snickers0815

Quote from Silversin

Could you please make it so that any priest ISS that give you any Magical attack or Magical damage increase also do Physical Attack and Physical Damage so that Priest/Warrior have some ISS to help them out. Thanks

Fully support this proposal. I asked that some time ago and got no answer.

the same idea as you for the class D/W.they make these classes. but is it really Dps or just adding a new layer nothing more or less.now they go to new classes again and of course these old grades go to the trash.I haven't seen the balance yet.

some unfiltered thoughts on current healing balancing:

heals are boring, brain afk spamming raid heals and HoTs

i remember times when heals actually had to make quick decisions on who to heal when and have good time management and positioning. this is all gone now and you only spam anything not caring who gets dmg.

one exmaple for this is when i am playing tank, i usually was able to regenerate mana by regularly using holy power explosion and being directly healed, now i am mainly healed just by HoTs missing out on this manareg.

another one is that having life-draining buffs up all the time does not make any difference, blood arrow from scout main and sec classes, holy candle from priests, or m/r gift of the baron(which on top is a strong raid-hot itself) and ch/wl elites do not mean any disadvantages anymore as long as heals are around, their life-drain just vanishes under all those hots.

this is mainly due to these changes:

healing skills and especially hots are scaling too much with wisdom, having 150k wis is enough to heal anyone to max. health each second, having 200k+ wis is just ridiculous amounts of healing, pls consider reducing the scaling.

we now have many heal combinations with viable healing skills and HoTs that affect the entire raid at once, making targeted healing obsolete as well as many, many more skills reducing dmg taken for the entire raid, preventing in certain situations that the raid takes dmg more than hots heal anyway.

also the class balancing brought us some raid-buffs that increase the healing taken, buffs like priests blessed pring water and k/d potent blessing make healing even more of a joke.

on top of that we have many more aoe-cc skills from tanks and dps-classes, which reduce the incoming dmg even more.

having alts follow you with makros that keep up hots and spam raid-heals is practicly as effective as having a human healer.

this fact is demotivating AF.

nowadays tanks rarely have more than 2kk hp and almost no dps has more than 1kk hp, you can heal them with 1kk+ urgent heals twice each second atm. this is simply too much.

and using urgent heal is not even necessary while having 4 ore more hots on the entire raid, 2 of them heal 2% each tick + ~100k and 2 of them heal 250k+ each tick.

at the moment using short-term buffs like healing slave/healing seed or bufffood like garlic bread or spicy kale chips or even any casting speed increasind buffs/food is just obsolete, because there are no situations where heals do not heal more than enough already.

another way to balance this issue would of course be heavily increasing the incoming dmg for raids. before the class balancing you regularly had to pause for a moment to heal the 50% dot those mantis in rofl have, now we just do not care anymore, simply charging forward into the next mobs while keeping up our hots and maybe blindly spamming mother earths fountain.

dots from other mobs in rofl are not even worth to mention, they just vanish the same way as the buffs i meantioned above.

i would make a list of skills that could need some changes, however this would practicly be all healing skills and combinations, which seem to be quite well balanced one ot another, however this might be hard to really evaluate while all of them heal way too much.

so reducing the healing amount in general would be the easier and more useful approach i guess.

please consider this, to give us heals at least some challenge in this game.

other classes have to make some effort too to be effective, why shouldnt healers.

Cheers!

Agreed, but please reduce the general healing output instead of increasing incoming damage.

Mages and Rogues already have a hard time surviving in melee.

Quote from Serenadae

Agreed, but please reduce the general healing output instead of increasing incoming damage.

Mages and Rogues already have a hard time surviving in melee.

Paper's life is hard

Quote from melodic

some unfiltered thoughts on current healing balancing:

heals are boring, brain afk spamming raid heals and HoTs

i remember times when heals actually had to make quick decisions on who to heal when and have good time management and positioning. this is all gone now and you only spam anything not caring who gets dmg.

one exmaple for this is when i am playing tank, i usually was able to regenerate mana by regularly using holy power explosion and being directly healed, now i am mainly healed just by HoTs missing out on this manareg.

another one is that having life-draining buffs up all the time does not make any difference, blood arrow from scout main and sec classes, holy candle from priests, or m/r gift of the baron(which on top is a strong raid-hot itself) and ch/wl elites do not mean any disadvantages anymore as long as heals are around, their life-drain just vanishes under all those hots.

this is mainly due to these changes:

healing skills and especially hots are scaling too much with wisdom, having 150k wis is enough to heal anyone to max. health each second, having 200k+ wis is just ridiculous amounts of healing, pls consider reducing the scaling.

we now have many heal combinations with viable healing skills and HoTs that affect the entire raid at once, making targeted healing obsolete as well as many, many more skills reducing dmg taken for the entire raid, preventing in certain situations that the raid takes dmg more than hots heal anyway.

also the class balancing brought us some raid-buffs that increase the healing taken, buffs like priests blessed pring water and k/d potent blessing make healing even more of a joke.

on top of that we have many more aoe-cc skills from tanks and dps-classes, which reduce the incoming dmg even more.

having alts follow you with makros that keep up hots and spam raid-heals is practicly as effective as having a human healer.

this fact is demotivating AF.

nowadays tanks rarely have more than 2kk hp and almost no dps has more than 1kk hp, you can heal them with 1kk+ urgent heals twice each second atm. this is simply too much.

and using urgent heal is not even necessary while having 4 ore more hots on the entire raid, 2 of them heal 2% each tick + ~100k and 2 of them heal 250k+ each tick.

at the moment using short-term buffs like healing slave/healing seed or bufffood like garlic bread or spicy kale chips or even any casting speed increasind buffs/food is just obsolete, because there are no situations where heals do not heal more than enough already.

another way to balance this issue would of course be heavily increasing the incoming dmg for raids. before the class balancing you regularly had to pause for a moment to heal the 50% dot those mantis in rofl have, now we just do not care anymore, simply charging forward into the next mobs while keeping up our hots and maybe blindly spamming mother earths fountain.

dots from other mobs in rofl are not even worth to mention, they just vanish the same way as the buffs i meantioned above.

i would make a list of skills that could need some changes, however this would practicly be all healing skills and combinations, which seem to be quite well balanced one ot another, however this might be hard to really evaluate while all of them heal way too much.

so reducing the healing amount in general would be the easier and more useful approach i guess.

please consider this, to give us heals at least some challenge in this game.

other classes have to make some effort too to be effective, why shouldnt healers.

Cheers!

Display More

you no need reducing something if you reduce low player cannot play this game , just put reduce to golden gear who is wear complete golden gear at rofl reduce heal %40 or reduce %30 atk power. this game is not turning around you are golden gear ppl, we are here want play only for your enjoy we are playing bad games, if you want to challenge change your gear and wear gorge gear go rofl with them and you can get your challenge.t14 gold gear already you will heal too much or you will dps too much this game is not only for you are... thanks

Quote from Stranger@@

Quote from melodic

some unfiltered thoughts on current healing balancing:

heals are boring, brain afk spamming raid heals and HoTs

i remember times when heals actually had to make quick decisions on who to heal when and have good time management and positioning. this is all gone now and you only spam anything not caring who gets dmg.

one exmaple for this is when i am playing tank, i usually was able to regenerate mana by regularly using holy power explosion and being directly healed, now i am mainly healed just by HoTs missing out on this manareg.

another one is that having life-draining buffs up all the time does not make any difference, blood arrow from scout main and sec classes, holy candle from priests, or m/r gift of the baron(which on top is a strong raid-hot itself) and ch/wl elites do not mean any disadvantages anymore as long as heals are around, their life-drain just vanishes under all those hots.

this is mainly due to these changes:

healing skills and especially hots are scaling too much with wisdom, having 150k wis is enough to heal anyone to max. health each second, having 200k+ wis is just ridiculous amounts of healing, pls consider reducing the scaling.

we now have many heal combinations with viable healing skills and HoTs that affect the entire raid at once, making targeted healing obsolete as well as many, many more skills reducing dmg taken for the entire raid, preventing in certain situations that the raid takes dmg more than hots heal anyway.

also the class balancing brought us some raid-buffs that increase the healing taken, buffs like priests blessed pring water and k/d potent blessing make healing even more of a joke.

on top of that we have many more aoe-cc skills from tanks and dps-classes, which reduce the incoming dmg even more.

having alts follow you with makros that keep up hots and spam raid-heals is practicly as effective as having a human healer.

this fact is demotivating AF.

nowadays tanks rarely have more than 2kk hp and almost no dps has more than 1kk hp, you can heal them with 1kk+ urgent heals twice each second atm. this is simply too much.

and using urgent heal is not even necessary while having 4 ore more hots on the entire raid, 2 of them heal 2% each tick + ~100k and 2 of them heal 250k+ each tick.

at the moment using short-term buffs like healing slave/healing seed or bufffood like garlic bread or spicy kale chips or even any casting speed increasind buffs/food is just obsolete, because there are no situations where heals do not heal more than enough already.

another way to balance this issue would of course be heavily increasing the incoming dmg for raids. before the class balancing you regularly had to pause for a moment to heal the 50% dot those mantis in rofl have, now we just do not care anymore, simply charging forward into the next mobs while keeping up our hots and maybe blindly spamming mother earths fountain.

dots from other mobs in rofl are not even worth to mention, they just vanish the same way as the buffs i meantioned above.

i would make a list of skills that could need some changes, however this would practicly be all healing skills and combinations, which seem to be quite well balanced one ot another, however this might be hard to really evaluate while all of them heal way too much.

so reducing the healing amount in general would be the easier and more useful approach i guess.

please consider this, to give us heals at least some challenge in this game.

other classes have to make some effort too to be effective, why shouldnt healers.

Cheers!

Display More

you no need reducing something if you reduce low player cannot play this game , just put reduce to golden gear who is wear complete golden gear at rofl reduce heal %40 or reduce %30 atk power. this game is not turning around you are golden gear ppl, we are here want play only for your enjoy we are playing bad games, if you want to challenge change your gear and wear gorge gear go rofl with them and you can get your challenge.t14 gold gear already you will heal too much or you will dps too much this game is not only for you are... thanks

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First of all: Why should every (easy, normal, hard, insane, god-mode) Instance in any game be possible with just, let me say, ridiculous gear like somehing that is like a starter gear. That is, what I read in your post.

It is a fact, that you can heal (fullbuffed) something like ~5kk recover with ~210k wisdom. I / my healer knows that.

The point of view, Melodic told here, is that all healing is kinda like 2 times high than any HP of a player (except HoT effects).

Don't know why you are in such an aggressive state and telling incorrect facts Oo. Melodic has, btw such a hint, red!!! rofl heal gear, t10!!!.

Don't know where you see rofl gold gear t14 on his healer oO. Even is tank gear is only t8 btw.

Regarding this and your behavior tells me, that you are just unhappy of something being changed, because you cannot heal anymore after the change (class balancing btw).

at my post every question have answer thanks anyway

not: i am good thinking other ppl...

Quote from Stranger@@

you no need reducing something if you reduce low player cannot play this game , just put reduce to golden gear who is wear complete golden gear at rofl reduce heal %40 or reduce %30 atk power. this game is not turning around you are golden gear ppl, we are here want play only for your enjoy we are playing bad games, if you want to challenge change your gear and wear gorge gear go rofl with them and you can get your challenge.t14 gold gear already you will heal too much or you will dps too much this game is not only for you are... thanks

I don't usually reply to such comments, but eventually enough. Keeping this stupid argument of golden gear here golden gear there. We are talking about endcontend here and you should only be allowed to play it with a certain gear and skill. Currently you can run rofl with gorge, if not worse gear, without problems. If this does not apply to others, I have to say plain and simple, then learn your classes to play, because the gear is definitely not the problem.

I don't see putting on worse gear to be challenged again. The gear that you can earn and the available classes should be adapted to the contend or the other way around. To say now that nothing must be changed so that everyone can run the endcontend, I just find it wrong.

"We" are constantly portrayed as if we want to make the game worse for others, but that is not correct. We just want it to be challenging. And this also includes a challenging end contend, which is not so easy to reached by everyone.

Also "we" (here I am referring to the Sâcrêd Guild) have worked on our skills and teamwork for years. You just have to start with small inis, improve your gear, get to know your class and develop yourself continuously. You can't expect to play a game for a few months and to be able to do everything perfectly and to run the end contend without problems.

And this is exactly what many are currently expecting. This creates an end contend that can really be run by any idiot with eyes closed and no brain. More players will lose interest in the long run.

I don't think that if something changes in the healing, many will no longer be able to play the game. Then you have to adapt.

Don't touch the healers The healers have already gone through the stress of class balancing, now everything is in order. For those who are bored, there are many different class options for every taste, experiment, have fun, to reduce healing, I can advise you not to use potions, food and buffs

Quote from snowgirl

Don't touch the healers The healers have already gone through the stress of class balancing, now everything is in order. For those who are bored, there are many different class options for every taste, experiment, have fun, to reduce healing, I can advise you not to use potions, food and buffs

So what you mean by that is that you should be able to run the highest ini with the worst (healing) combinations, no bufffood and buffs? And you think that´s right?

Maybe the whole discussion wouldn't be there, if there would be a fourth instance difficulty. harder than hardmode with a better loot, but nothing that you cannot get with just hardmode (just slower?).

For RofL maybe it would mean that for example the endboss starts with 10 stacks. Or all mobs/boss have higher HP/def/attack/dmg.

Hint at Devs

Maybe it would be a great Idea for future content?

I know that different ppl have different skill / gear / possibilities.

But in my opinion all ppl should have their fun. For ppl, which are handycapped or whatever, there are modes like easy or normal mode. Just having fun.

Hardmode, in the past, was always hard to play and a challenge. this changed a bit with RofL and the class balancing in my opinion.

Yes, you all can have fun in this game, in any instance. But please consider that there are also ppl which are bored, because there is no challenge for them.

I will make an example for myself. I am mainly a tank (in the last weeks) in my guild. For me as a tank, I don't know how I could die in RofL if there is one healer healing. The damage income for my tank is really low. I also tanked astaroth with 20 stacks. I can say up to 14-15 stacks no problem, no stress for me. On an other day, I pulled the guardians at B1 to get their debuff and I ran the whole instance with this debuff.

I mean, yes I can make my challenge for myself, if I use mechanics if you fail something. But this is kinda stupid. Why shall I fail something every time, to get a challenge?

I am a person who grows with his challenges. And I want to have fun too

That are just my opinions

Some feedback on old mage combos, already asked this but want to remind there are bugs which need to be solved, etc.

-Mage/Champion:

Elit electric current arc. This was supposed to help when mages were always casting, now this class is mostly instant skills (without burst ofc). In a decent party with enough dps is almost impossible to do on mobs such a long cast just to get the plasma arrow debuff on, specially in some parts of rofl where there are lot of squishy mobs.

Please consider removing the 3s cast. I propose to make it instant skill (increase the dmg since is losing the 3s cast) with 10s cd. Have to remember this is just a skill to get a buff, not the real damage of the class.

-Mage/Scout:

This class pet is a total mess and so so so bugged. It uses flame when it wants, most of the times the pet stand there doing nothing while skill is activated forcing you to resummon it or manual the flame until she decides you are worth enough to use it by itself

Also skill description isn't accurated with reality. It says range 200 well, in reality it has only 80 range making it useless in every mob phase of instance, once the pet reach that distance and start casting, mobs are gone. Speed cast buffs don't affect it, doesn't matter your gear or your buffs, this cast won't be faster as it should be (it only gets affected by its own cast buff after a few flames).

Thank you for your time.

Quote from Madox

In a decent party with enough dps is almost impossible to do on mobs such a long cast just to get the plasma arrow debuff on, specially in some parts of rofl where there are lot of squishy mobs.

Quote from Madox

It says range 200 well, in reality it has only 80 range making it useless in every mob phase of instance, once the pet reach that distance and start casting, mobs are gone.

Well, this certainly sounds like mobs do die too fast in that "endcontent" instance not only in our guild-runs...

Please give us proper endcontent soon!

Quote from Madox

This class pet is a total mess and so so so bugged. It uses flame when it wants, most of the times the pet stand there doing nothing while skill is activated forcing you to resummon it or manual the flame until she decides you are worth enough to use it by itself

I also noticed this. You have to retoggle the skill almost on every mob in order for your pet to start casting again.

Greetings.

I believe thats the same issue I mentioned a while ago.

Quote from melodic

warden pets stop using toggled skills without reason after some time, obversed for a while with natures christal and now with holy crystals' Curing Will, whci is more than just annoying

Quote from xLutinex

Maybe the whole discussion wouldn't be there, if there would be a fourth instance difficulty. harder than hardmode with a better loot, but nothing that you cannot get with just hardmode (just slower?).

For RofL maybe it would mean that for example the endboss starts with 10 stacks. Or all mobs/boss have higher HP/def/attack/dmg.

Hint at Devs

Maybe it would be a great Idea for future content?

I know that different ppl have different skill / gear / possibilities.

But in my opinion all ppl should have their fun. For ppl, which are handycapped or whatever, there are modes like easy or normal mode. Just having fun.

Hardmode, in the past, was always hard to play and a challenge. this changed a bit with RofL and the class balancing in my opinion.

Yes, you all can have fun in this game, in any instance. But please consider that there are also ppl which are bored, because there is no challenge for them.

I will make an example for myself. I am mainly a tank (in the last weeks) in my guild. For me as a tank, I don't know how I could die in RofL if there is one healer healing. The damage income for my tank is really low. I also tanked astaroth with 20 stacks. I can say up to 14-15 stacks no problem, no stress for me. On an other day, I pulled the guardians at B1 to get their debuff and I ran the whole instance with this debuff.

I mean, yes I can make my challenge for myself, if I use mechanics if you fail something. But this is kinda stupid. Why shall I fail something every time, to get a challenge?

I am a person who grows with his challenges. And I want to have fun too

That are just my opinions

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I agree there many says just put for rofl (HELL mode or something like that) dont reduce any skill for challenge. thanks

I play dps from time to time as well, but its not what I want to play all the time.

If the scaling of wisdom would be reduced, compared to now, you would need more wisdom for the same amout of healing, so if you already have a full wisdom gear, you would not have to change anything...in fact, you should change your gear now if you have full wisdom, since that grants you way too much wisdom and healing than anywhere necessary, sacrificing too much sustainability

Do you even have any valid arguements for healing amount not to be reduced, except "i dont want it to"?!

Can you name us any situations where you do not heal way too much right now?

Being lazy isnt a valid point as well, go play solitaire or candy crush if you dont want to make any effort.

Cheers!

Hello.

Warden \ Rogue

Can you change the of skill 494202 (Improved Spikes) damage two-handed weapons to one-handed. This will increase the character's mobility and make him more interesting.

A general suggestion for rogue:

Informer: Please adjust the critical points or cooldown or change the skill in any way. Because just under 600 critical points for 60 seconds with a cooldown of 5 minutes are pretty low compared to other buffs with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

Kind regards

Quote from Astarot

Effortlessly, boredom was sarcasm, but obviously you are too serious and don't get the joke.

Of course am I serious about this, so why should i expect sarcasm here?

The whole point of this thread is giving valid feedback to the devs for the balancing process that is going on, supporting your opinion with observations and test results.

If you are not going to do that, but rather joke about other peoples suggestions, you should not participate here at all, since that behaviour is less than constructive.

...and btw: i am using 2x sta/sta, 2x sta/wis and 2x wis/wis, AFTER adjusting to the previous balacing and i still have more than enough wisdom with those stats, so again, do not worry about having to redo your gear if the wisdom scaling is adjusted properly

Cheers!

druid/knight lv35 elite Shield of Life (ID: 1490643) is missing the shield requirement in its tooltip.

Suggestion for Scout/Druid:
There are now more classes that give the group a big mana-reg..
To make the Scout/Druid more pleasant to play it would be nice to change the skill "Elven-sight" ID: 494327 to behave like Bloodarrow. I like the class but having to rebuff the skill every minute just gets on your nerves after some time..