Posts by moncef

Quote from Zetsu99

I would like to propose a balance adjustment for the Rogue/Priest elite skill, "Patience and Salvation" (ID: 492921).

Currently, this class combination suffers from low base Physical Attack compared to other Rogue combinations , making it struggle significantly in high-level dungeons. The current mechanic, where auto-attacks grant "Damage Received Reduction," feels counter-intuitive for a DPS class that needs to maximize output rather than mitigation.

My Proposal:

1. Remove the Defensive Mechanic: Instead of reducing damage received, Regular Attacks should stack a Physical Attack increase.
2. Optimize to current game aspects: The stack generation currently requires "offensive single-target skills." This restricts rotation fluidity. I suggest changing this to trigger on ANY offensive skill (including AoE).
3. Balance Adjustment: To ensure this change remains balanced and not overpowered, the Physical Damage bonus per stack should be reduced by 30%-50%.

This change would allow Rogue/Priest to maintain a consistent DPS rotation and stay viable in end-game content without becoming broken, thanks to the reduced values.

Thank you for considering this feedback to improve class diversity.

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I disagree with the second point. Right now, it is easier than ever to get and maintain your stacks in both AoE and single target situations.

While Perfect Slice is technically an AoE skill, you can actually use it to build Stacks so fast in AOe . For example, if you are fighting 10 targets and use this combo:

Patience and Salvation → Perfect Slice → Awakening of the Monk → Timed Perfect Slice

You will gain 10 Stacks in first second and 20 stacks in about 3 seconds which last for 30s (excluding any Gcd Skill). It is true that Distrusting Mist or Soul Storm do not generate stacks, but there are many other alternatives:

• Shadow Slash: Gives 4 stacks (with Grandmaster).
• Wound Attack: Gives 3 stacks (via weapon swapping).
• Claw Scar: Gives 2 stacks.(with Claw Mark)

These are all GCD skills that you must use anyway, regardless if you are in a single target or AoE fight

Additionally, I believe nerfing the Damage Bonus to buff Physical Attack for balance purposes is a bad idea.

Rogues (not just R/P) can feel behind on base PAtk, but this is a temporary gearing problem, not a fundamental class flaw.

The current % Damage Bonus is a multiplier, whereas PAtk scales linearly. In the endgame, with endgame gear and good healer buff, you will already have massive amounts of PAtk. Once your PAtk hits a certain threshold relative to a target's defense, adding more PAtk becomes less effective. However, a % Damage Bonus never loses value and scales perfectly

Hello, I want to report a Bug with Rogue/Mage.

If you cast Hell Blade (ID :497205) during Premeditation(ID : 491182), the Hell Blade buff always disappears when Premeditation ends.

however if you use Hell Blade before Premeditation, this does not happen.

This is not a visual bug btw you also lose the Hell Blade damage bonus and effects

Gyazo Screen Video

gyazo.com

Why not make a new kitty-combo version a default in the game , with new conditions like main/badge title swapping? Alternatively, you can share a macro with non-script users to set a specific title, and they can add it to their kitty combo's skill slots. Since kitty combo already allows adding all type of items and macros alongside skills, this would provide them with the same outcome as a script user.

hello

could you please change the ("Poisonous Spit ID : 493253 " dot effect) ,to reset the Debuff within every use of combo shot or reflected shot . like any other dot effect in game .

Quote from Cosmo

Quote from moncef

you can already do that , if you enable Auto use area Skills without targeting (AU Setting)

You know the API for this? Since we dont use AU due different reasons.

no ,actually i don't

Quote from Cruvor

Thanks for recent Scout changes , they help alot.

Any chance Autoshot and Hurricane Downpour ISS (494970) can be changed to be used together ? as of now you need to disable Autoshot to use ISS.

Other idea would be to make Hurricane Downpour like Champ´s Imprisonment Pulse , that would also fix this.

Greetings

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you can already do that , if you enable Auto use area Skills without targeting (AU Setting)

Quote from Serenadae

What about classes that wear neither 2h nor offhand weapon?

Is a corrupted version for the wb talisman planned?

corrupted version of Murk too :3

Could you please consider either reducing the cost of Weapon-runes or introducing a zone for farming these runes, similar to mini-game or tempest heights ? Additionally, it would be highly beneficial to introduce new gold resources into the game as soon as possible.

The current system of adding specific stats to weapons will led to several significant scenario. a Weapon with particular stats may not be as effective for other classes or even within the same class, necessitating the creation of at least two identical weapons with different stats. While the Arcane Forge has made tier farming more accessible and reduced their prices, the high cost of runes remains a challenge, making the crafting of multiple weapons expensive, despite the lowered tier prices.

bug report : Rogue/Scout

1. when Substitute (499501) triggers the clone that spawns hits any player around after finishing its animation. ( it acts like a normal monster and hits any friendly target nearby)

Rogue / Knight

1- Illegal Punishment (ID:499529) = inflicts additional dmg caused by your Punishment depending on stamina -- instead of dex

2- Poisonous Hand (ID:490329) : additional aggro generation from regular attacks

(effect is mutually exclusive with Energized Hands , Searing Light)

3- Power of the Lion (ID:492924) : increases Physical and Magical Defense from 54.4% to 69.4%

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from moncef

actually i know what he was talking about.

however i didn't want to delve deeper into AoE because it's quite obvious that S/W is stronger than S/D. Here's why:

In the same 30-second sustain test (3 targets) with warp charge:

S/W does 23% more damage, while S/D does 8% more damage when Berserk wears off. The reason being:

Reflected Shot and autoattacks are notably weaker for S/D. Even S/D's piercing arrow deals slightly less damage than S/W's ,when S/W's Berserk is active.

The 15% attack speed boost for scouts simply doesn't significantly contribute much to overall damage, not even for single target skills. Therefore, its impact on AoE skills, which don't scale with 'Distant Friend,' is also negligible

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Yes. 15% attack speed is nothing. Only 17,5% flat dmg increase. This 17% + the manabased blood arrow, which name I dont know, + the flat amount of attack depending on range DMG is significantly lower than berserk.

It was also a very good test on 3 dummies where you dont need to move, bcs reflected shot only hits 3 targets and s/w has a movespeed debuff.

All in all a good test for s/w

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where do you want me to test? 15 dummies? where piercing arrow deals more damage when berserks is active? also i'm wondering how 12% movement speed going to impact my overall damage when i can do +23% more damage ever 30s xD . i mean movement speed will be really impactfully if piercing arrow had a really small box collider ,which's in reality not so true

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from moncef

you're right about the additional 15% in single target damage, which does make S/D better in the bigger picture. But it might not be as significant as you think, and here's why.

Let's imagine you're attempting a 30-second single target sustain at maximum range+warp charge (which is impossible btw to achieve in real situations). If we assume you have a similar, good rotation and manage to land around:

27-30 wind arrows.

23-25 skills with GCD

Both classes deal almost the same damage, and the reason behind this is that S/W has a 26% damage buff that only has a 60-second cooldown and lasts for 30 seconds. However, your autoattacks benefit more from the 15% boost than S/D, as you can potentially land +30 more autoattacks in 30 seconds, contributing to over 60% more damage.

It's true that S/D's joint blow and Wind Arrows deal more damage than S/W, but the difference isn't substantial (3.23% and 1.8% respectively). Plus, you have non-GCD snipe with zero channeling time. Although it's true that when S/W's berserk wears off and if you add another attack speed potion in this sustained phase (like Elven Agility Flask or Strong Stimulant), S/D will likely outperform S/W. However, in ini, hitting skills at maximum range is impractical. Also, during sustained fights, you typically engage more than one single target, where S/W proves to be stronger in these cases.

in nutsell, Scout class (except Scout/Mage) is quite expensive, demanding substantial resources to compete effectively. This is primarily due to the significant impact of its physical damage. In a basic scenario without any damage buffs, each tier of a weapon increases your damage output by roughly 1.7%. However, since damage is not additive, the impact of x% damage buffs increases output damage more significantly as your raw damage (higher weapon tier + raw damage bonus from gear) increases

When you mentioned, 'only M/W seems to be able to outclass me in damage,' considering someone who has dedicated a considerable amount of time exclusively playing as a scout, and their weapon alone costs roughly as much as Mage gear with swapped equipment, it raises concerns about this class being inherently weak. Now, picture the experience of an average player with significantly fewer resources—a Tier 15/14 bow paired with Tier 11/10 gear and no additional cards. It amplifies the struggle and emphasizes the inherent weaknesses of the class

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You know ramer talked about the Attack Speed passive, S/D has? And this works for single and aoe DMG. He is not talking about the general scout ranged dmg passive depending on range

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actually i know what he was talking about.

however i didn't want to delve deeper into AoE because it's quite obvious that S/W is stronger than S/D. Here's why:

In the same 30-second sustain test (3 targets) with warp charge:

S/W does 23% more damage, while S/D does 8% more damage when Berserk wears off. The reason being:

Reflected Shot and autoattacks are notably weaker for S/D. Even S/D's piercing arrow deals slightly less damage than S/W's ,when S/W's Berserk is active.

The 15% attack speed boost for scouts simply doesn't significantly contribute much to overall damage, not even for single target skills. Therefore, its impact on AoE skills, which don't scale with 'Distant Friend,' is also negligible

Quote from Pistan

Mit großen Interesse verfolge ich diesen Beitrag. Ich spiele nur den Kundschafter/Druiden und sehr selten Kundschafter/Mage z.B. in Atlas. Die Klasse K/D halte ich für die am besten ausbalancierte Klasse in CoA. Enorm stark an den Bossen und guten AoE-Schaden.

Allerdings muss oder sollte der K/D dann ziemlich extrem gepimpt sein. Mehr als evtl. in anderen Klassen notwendig ist. Vergleiche zu anderen Klassen (oft als OP-Klassen betitelt) mache ich nicht, weil es für mich keinen Sinn macht. Ja, der K/D ist leicht zu spielen (für mich als alten Mann also optimal) Allerdings muss ich ehrlich eingestehen, dass ein jüngerer Spieler mit meiner Ausrüstung noch mehr Schaden machen könnte.

Der einzige Kritikpunkt für mich ist der der Skill "Entfernter Freund". Ich halte ihn nicht für besonders gut gelungen. Evtl. würde es ausreichen, dass dieser Skil geändert wird in: physischer Fernkampfschaden kann bis zu 15% bei Einzelzielen erhöht werden und nicht auf auf Reichweite bezogen ist . Aber das ist nur meine Meinung

Ich stimme dir vollig zu, dass Kundi/dudu eine der ausgewogensten Klassen im Spiel ist. Ich habe nicht gemeint, dass S/D unterdurchschnittlich ist. Wenn du gegen einen schwachen Schurke oder fast alle Stoff-klassen mit durchschnittlicher Ausrüstung kämpfst, kannst du sie aufjeden leichter besiegen, das bestreitet niemand. Aber aufgrund des aktuellen Zustands von Klassen wie den Schurken sowie des Designs der Ini selbst ist es offensichtlich, dass Schurken dich leicht übertreffen können. Denn Schurken haben eine der besten Sustain-trash, wenn nicht sogar die beste im Spiel. Um diesen Punkt zu unterstützen, werde ich ein einfaches Beispiel geben. Eine Klasse wie R/CH, die ihre Sustain in Atlas-sacken im Vergleich zu R/M oder R/W, R/P (ohne die Wirkung von "Disassemble" zu berücksichtigen) nicht die stärkste ist, kann ich aber trotzdem mehr Schaden verursachen als alle kundis (außer S/M, die ich persönlich als eine fehlerlose Klasse mit richtig starkem Kit finde),

und genau das merke ich in jeder Ini

Quote from Ramer

Quote from moncef

S/D has a higher raw attack speed, meaning its Joint Blow has a lower cooldown (1.30 seconds), and its other skills also hit slightly harder (although the benefit isn't huge because Scout benefits less from attack speed compared to a melee classes).

Agree with most of your calculations and suggestions except for one fundamental point. You downplay the attack speed of ranged weapons, even minimizing the additional 15% that makes this difference and is the foundation of this combination. Remember that the Scout's DPS includes, among other things, the multiplier of the attack speed of the weapon, and in S/D, it's +15% compared to S/W. If there were runes for the attack speed of ranged weapons, you would see this difference perhaps more clearly.

you're right about the additional 15% in single target damage, which does make S/D better in the bigger picture. But it might not be as significant as you think, and here's why.

Let's imagine you're attempting a 30-second single target sustain at maximum range+warp charge (which is impossible btw to achieve in real situations). If we assume you have a similar, good rotation and manage to land around:

27-30 wind arrows.

23-25 skills with GCD

Both classes deal almost the same damage, and the reason behind this is that S/W has a 26% damage buff that only has a 60-second cooldown and lasts for 30 seconds. However, your autoattacks benefit more from the 15% boost than S/D, as you can potentially land +30 more autoattacks in 30 seconds, contributing to over 60% more damage.

It's true that S/D's joint blow and Wind Arrows deal more damage than S/W, but the difference isn't substantial (3.23% and 1.8% respectively). Plus, you have non-GCD snipe with zero channeling time. Although it's true that when S/W's berserk wears off and if you add another attack speed potion in this sustained phase (like Elven Agility Flask or Strong Stimulant), S/D will likely outperform S/W. However, in ini, hitting skills at maximum range is impractical. Also, during sustained fights, you typically engage more than one single target, where S/W proves to be stronger in these cases.

in nutsell, Scout class (except Scout/Mage) is quite expensive, demanding substantial resources to compete effectively. This is primarily due to the significant impact of its physical damage. In a basic scenario without any damage buffs, each tier of a weapon increases your damage output by roughly 1.7%. However, since damage is not additive, the impact of x% damage buffs increases output damage more significantly as your raw damage (higher weapon tier + raw damage bonus from gear) increases

When you mentioned, 'only M/W seems to be able to outclass me in damage,' considering someone who has dedicated a considerable amount of time exclusively playing as a scout, and their weapon alone costs roughly as much as Mage gear with swapped equipment, it raises concerns about this class being inherently weak. Now, picture the experience of an average player with significantly fewer resources—a Tier 15/14 bow paired with Tier 11/10 gear and no additional cards. It amplifies the struggle and emphasizes the inherent weaknesses of the class

Quote from Ramer

Referring to this, S/D is the simplest Scout combination currently in the game. Thanks to the bonus to range and additional damage, good positioning brings very good results. Playing S/D, S/M, S/W, S/R, S/Ch, and S/Wd, I see that S/D is the strongest combination if the player can position themselves well. Why is that? Well, high firing rate + a lot of damage (only S/Ch has more, but there the attack speed is lacking), simple mechanics that don't require much thinking. This combination draws the most from the bow or crossbow during maximum shots, mainly focusing on a single target, although in AoE with a large group of enemies, it can handle itself well. The only challenge is to sense when to use the explosion in an instance and when to wait. Only S/R currently truly keeps up with it. As for competing with other classes, in Guild Runs, not only my S/D hits hard, but other players without t18 weapons also perform well compared to other classes. Overall, only M/W seems to be able to outclass me in damage.

Hmm, I see a bit of a contradiction there. You mentioned that buffing Reflected Shot to S/W might be ok, but at the same time, you pointed out that S/D doesn't require any extra buffs because it's already quite strong as it is.

well first Let's begin by comparing S/D and S/W. as S/D with Blood Arrow and other damage buffs, I consistently reach 729k damage permanently. On the other hand, with S/W, I can reach 610.673 permanently and 753.707 every 30 seconds

S/D slightly edges out in physical attack power (patk), but the difference isn't too significant because S/W also maintains a permanent 10% patk buff alongside an additional 8% patk boost every 25 seconds + %str from warrior's general Skill.

S/D has a higher raw attack speed, meaning its Joint Blow has a lower cooldown (1.59 seconds), and its other skills also hit slightly harder (although the benefit isn't huge because Scout benefits less from attack speed compared to a melee classes).

On the other hand, S/W's Joint Blow has relatively a longer cooldown (1.87 seconds). Additionally, S/W can use Joint Blow more frequently than S/D due to fact that S/W doesn't have focus problems, which S/D encounters.

Also, " Combo Shot" for S/W deals more damage. But what, in my opinion, makes S/W stronger than S/D is Reflected Shot. It deals + %80 more ranged weapon DPS and has a 3-second shorter cooldown. This means that every 6 seconds, Reflected Shot deals 73% more then S/D . besides the fact that you can hit more autoattacks then S/D ofourse which contribute a lot in overall damage

"High firing rate + a lot of damage"? Are you sure about that? Have you ever checked out the Warrior/Scout's kit? It can reach over 1.4 million in melee weapon damage (without needing a Tier 18 weapon btw) and over 2 million with a bow + an insane bleed effect when your physical attack hits a certain threshold or W/D who has pretty much the best single target burst in the game. Try playing S/D in Necro or FA with someone who understands how to play W/S, and you might change your mind.

and as you said S/D's sutain during tash fights is not strong.

all this aspects obviously demonstrate that S/D is literally has no addventage then all other classes

In my experience and observations with this class, it's quite the opposite of what you just mentioned. neither in my guild runs nor in random runs, I've never witnessed anyone competing as S/D (except in any ini where you can one shot mobs before other melee classes haven't reach them), not even once, the reality is that it's not just a matter of losing; it's more like being completely owned and dominated.

can you please tell me what do you mean exactly by S/D is strong?...,i mean it's true it's definitely strong when you're competing against a R/W who keeps stacking buffs while he knows they gona get bursted quickly while you one shot them from high range. it's for sure strong when you're against a R/M who has no idea that he also has high range and can also hit from high range. it's strong against a rogue who has no idea who to spread his buffs properly and thinking that katana is as strong as murk. it's strong for a player who has whole gear tier 14 + t18 bow + max raw patk possible.

in this cases yeah , and please next give more details so our suggestions can be more useful and efficient

I'd like to share my opinion regarding certain Scout classes that need some buffs, particularly S/D, S/Ch, and S/W. as well as 1 change to Snipe as Whole

Snipe

-increases Snipe's crit hit rate chance

For me, this change stands out as the most crucial. It's just unfair to invest in high-tier curse and buff casting speed for just one skill, which I'll likely use once or twice during the entire burst. Surprisingly, it deals the same damage (when it doesn't crit ) as a skill I'll employ at least 25 time . The issue lies in the significantly low crit hit rate chance in instances like Necro or FA compared to ones like ROFL.

S/D :

1- Devour Blood

- make your Vampire Arrows bleed more deadlier (ranged weapon scaling)

I believe S/D stands as one of the weaker scouts due to its low sustain and the significant gap between it and other rogues is just to obvious. However, I also believe that not every class should excel in every aspect of the game.

Comparatively, S/D burst one of the best bursts among all classes. Yet, when placed in instances like Necro or FA where bosses endure for prolonged periods it struggles to compete with W/D or the bleeding effects of warriors. In my opinion, enhancing the bleed effect could be the sole change required to make this class a more viable choice, especially in nostalgic instances.

S/Ch:

1-concentration :

-Changes it Cd (from 3min to 1.5min)

-reduces buff duration (from 62.5 s to 30s)

-adds 10% attackspeed/casting speed

- increase the ability to use casting shoot

while walking ( from 15s to 20s)

2 - Cripple Joint :

-adds chance to your joint blow to become flawless when

you're under effect of Concentration (means your Joint blow will have a chance of not trigger GCD)

3 - Fatal Shot :

-increasing the stacks generation from

1stack/second to 1stacks/0.5 second

4- Runecraft-Diversion :

reduces received area damage by 25%

In my opinion, SCH currently ranks as the weakest scout, largely due to its heavy reliance on attack speed buffs. I've been considering ways to grant this class more independence, allowing it to compete regardless of the group's setup.

Observing its single-target burst, when you reach the attack speed cap, the class performs exceedingly well for the initial 10-15 seconds (if Snipe crits and if the burst starts with 10 Fatal Shot stacks). However, it sharply declines after Schorching Rge wears off.

The kit itself contributes to this weakness. The frequent channeling times of many skills, along with the gun's slowness, limit the class's ability to execute enough skills/auto-attacks, despite having notably high physical damage.

Some suggest improving the class by extending Joint Blow's range, but I believe this change alone isn't sufficient + the S/Ch playstyle differs significantly from other scouts, with a significant portion of its damage stemming from skills with relatively short ranges compared to typical scout skills (e.g., Piercing Arrow).

Speaking of range, I've noticed potion (20% dex/30 ranged weapon range) in Itemshop or robots that increase ranged weapon range attributes. Personally, I find these buffd useless since having a 15% increase in permanent single-target skills doesn't benefit much without receiving patk buffs from Warlock.

As a scout, maintaining position is critical, especially to ensure you receive all patk buffs from your Warlock, which becomes significantly important when the majority of DPS in the group are melee, considering Warlock's melee positioning. In my opinion, hitting +3 targets with Piercing Arrow with a guaranteed Surge every 35 seconds and a permanent 5 Whisper stacks hold more importance than a 15% Wind Arrow damage/Joint Blow without patk buffs

S/W :

1-Mental Focus :

-change buff effect from 120 seconds to 15 min

2-Reflected Shot :

- causes 4 reflections instead of 2

3- Mana Drain Shot :

-increases it CD (from 15 seconds to 20 seconds)

- while you're under the effect of " Main Drain effect" (8 seconds buff ) removes Snipe casting time

- a random mark appears withing 1.5s (pretty much same mechanic of Perfect Slice) . in this time intervall your Snipe deals (3000% Ranged Weapon DPS) --( instead of 3,558.7% when target is under the effect of Mana drain )

else if snipe used outside of the 1.5s time intervall it deals 1200% ranged weapon DPS

S/W is class that stand no chance to any rogue in my opinion but with relativly strong sustain in comparison with some scouts (except s/r,s/m or s/wd) .

also i suggest a new mechanic to snipe for this class which's going to look and sound crazy for some peaple ,but in my point of view it's going to make the class more fun and intersting

Quote from Cruvor

Katana is currently "weaker" then dagger , yes but not cause of the Damage / elemental /atkspeed bonuses or whatever , mostly (from my experience) cause Mobs / Bosses just die to fast to make the special Part "Perfect Slice" usable/worthwile with it.

I excpect a meta change anyways with Orkham to Katana -> Mob/Bosses live longer better uptime on Buff / better energy recovery etc.

Katana has its own unique mechanic that is just not working in current Meta , that does not mean 2x dagger is overall superior.

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take some time and go try a sustain in punching bags with a murk and Katana with literally every class (which stays alive the whole time ) ,then you'll change your mind

Quote from robopoke

Quote from moncef

I'd like to share my thoughts on the rogue in the current situation. Personally, I believe the rogue is extremely overpowered with Murk and definitely needs some nerfs. On the other hand, the katana seems quite useless since there's no real benefit from using it, even with a 100% perfect timing

After Murk was introduced, everyone was certain that certain classes would become extremely strong (e.g. RW, RM), and that has remained true despite the nerfs Murk has received. These classes are still extremely overpowered. Even before Murk was introduced, these two classes were already too strong

What's interesting is that not only did these two classes become stronger, but literally all the other rogues did as well, except for the Rogue/Scout. as this class simply doesn't have elemental damage scaling

Meanwhile, the Katana isn't worth playing in any possible case with any class, primarily due to the extremely high impact of elemental damage gained from The Murk and its high sustain.

that's why in my opinion, the necessary nerfs for Murk are:

1-Reduction of the elemental damage percentage of the weapon.

2-Increase in the weapon's base attack speed

Meanwhile, the Katana needs significant buffs:

1-Add an elemental damage buff (2% for each stack of Perfect Slice).

2-Increase the bleed effect of Perfect Slice.

3-Increase the damage equivalent to the off-hand when using the Katana.

4-Allow the Usage of Perfect Slice while under a cast (combo throw, Fast draw,which is crucial for RB and RS).

i still believe that even if Perfect Slice received more buffs and became extremely powerful, it remains balanced as it's the most challenging and difficult skill to play with in the entire game. This is especially true after the change to Perfect Slice (where you lose all three stacks upon failure). Particularly in crowded environments (+6 players ), it becomes incredibly difficult to notice the mark or hear its sound (e.g. Additional sounds effects like auto attacks, character footsteps, WB title flame sounds, aura buff, or even when you're in voice chat with the guild) all contribute to an extremely challenging situation.

I believe it's not fair that the Katana offers practically no benefit, neither in sustain nor in burst, even with perfect timing which is nearly impossible due to the distractions I've mentioned before. Meanwhile, using Murk allows you to effortlessly perform well in every situation without stressing over anything

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Great Post. Asking for nerf will always be unpopular so kudos for that. However, we do not want to nerf Bard/Rogues and Scout/Rogues by accident. So the simple solution is to nerf Rogues offhand damage (Offhand Mastery) from 48,5% to 40% without directly nerfing The Murk.

I just wanted to add that Katana is slightly stronger in absolute fullburst, because of atkspeedcap and Assassin's Rage only boosting main weapon. Also Rogues with Katana (ignore The Murk for a sec) are already strong in overall meta. So as Baboon said If the DoT-damage gets boosted and your suggestion 4) Perfect Slices is usable even while channeling (Fast Draw and Combo Shot) , it could already be enough.

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I agree with your idea of nerfing Offhand Mastery. Nerfing The Murk as a whole could negatively impact other classes that aren't as strong.

However, it's true that the Katana might have slightly stronger in absolute full burst damage for certain classes. The real question lies in whether it's worth using it for a 5% or 6% increase in output damage. as There's no guarantee you'll receive all the necessary buffs (e.g., SA) + risk of missing out on the perfect slice, in my opinion, makes it not worth the risk.

I remember when the katana was newly introduced, I could achieve roughly the same damage with a dagger in sustain without using perfect slice at all.

I believe the katana would truly become a viable choice when it can deliver 90% or even 95% of the damage of (dual daggers), even with a 50% or 60% miss rate, and a 10-15% increase in output damage compared to dual daggers with perfect timing in sustained combat.

Some might disagree, but in my humble opinion, I think the katana shouldn't just be a weapon for burst damage. The challenge of playing as a rogue with a katana lies in being consistently aware and focused throughout the entire run.

I mentioned in my previous discussion that should be a 6% elemental damage increase (with 3 stacks) which's might not suffice for the katana to achieve the desired 10-15% boost with perfect timing in sustained combat. meanwhile another weapon permanently providing 11-12% elemental damage, with higher DPS, presents a strong case. The damage from perfect slice alone isn't enough to counterbalance the impact of using dual daggers, especially during trash fights.

Even before initiating this discussion, I considered the idea of nerfing the offhand damage rune and the offhand damage badge title. These buffs significantly elevate the overall damage output of certain classes, especially the RM, RW, and RWl.

However, when examining classes like RcH, RP, and RWd, which don't have offhand weapon scaling, it's notable how strong they are in terms of damage output. This strength largely stems from the permanent 11-12% elemental damage they possess.

It seems there's a debate about whether the rogue using the Murk weapon is balanced, with some arguing that only a few rogue classes can contend with warriors , K/Wl or M/W However, when considering the referenced warriors, it's essential to examine

warrior/rogue: who's literally weak everywhere

warrior/druid: who's only powerfull in burst ,and it performances fall down if the run is slow? due to it extremly weak sustain

warrior/bard or warrior/champion :who has good in trash / sustain, in which almost all rogues can compete with them

warrior/scout? i'm wondering who can compete with this class except 3 or 4 players in the whole server?

Taking a quick glance at the overall performance of rogue and warrior players, based on my observations, an average rogue player often outperforms an average warrior player. This could be attributed to the simplicity of the tools available to rogues.

For instance, consider the RWl class, where over 50% of its damage comes from an autoattack and soul extract. In comparison, warriors handle more complex kit and weapon combinations, making it slightly more challenging for an average warrior player to achieve the class's maximum potential.

Knight/Warlock highlights a significant issue within certain gameplay dynamics. shine exceptionally in DC but falters in other content like FA or Necro , where bosses significantly contribute to overall damage and their extended survival makes short-term burst less impactful.

besides the fact the this class requies gear investement which's only usable for K/Wl , as K/Wl with leather or chain is just too weak

Mage/Warrior class falls into a similar category. It demands substantial investment in resources to maximize its potential.

I think it's okay if these classes deal more damage because they require a lot of resources and investment. It seems fair to me that if players put in a significant effort and spend more on these classes, they should get better damage in return.

meanwhile you can literally make a tier 14/15 Murk , which is stronger for literally all rogues and you can compete in every single run , every single group setup ,regardless of the run's tempo due to the flexability the rogue has.

I'd like to share my thoughts on the rogue in the current situation. Personally, I believe the rogue is extremely overpowered with Murk and definitely needs some nerfs. On the other hand, the katana seems quite useless since there's no real benefit from using it, even with a 100% perfect timing

After Murk was introduced, everyone was certain that certain classes would become extremely strong (e.g. RW, RM), and that has remained true despite the nerfs Murk has received. These classes are still extremely overpowered. Even before Murk was introduced, these two classes were already too strong

What's interesting is that not only did these two classes become stronger, but literally all the other rogues did as well, except for the Rogue/Scout. as this class simply doesn't have elemental damage scaling

Meanwhile, the Katana isn't worth playing in any possible case with any class, primarily due to the extremely high impact of elemental damage gained from The Murk and its high sustain.

that's why in my opinion, the necessary nerfs for Murk are:

1-Reduction of the elemental damage percentage of the weapon.

2-Increase in the weapon's base attack speed

Meanwhile, the Katana needs significant buffs:

1-Add an elemental damage buff (2% for each stack of Perfect Slice).

2-Increase the bleed effect of Perfect Slice.

3-Increase the damage equivalent to the off-hand when using the Katana.

4-Allow the Usage of Perfect Slice while under a cast (combo throw, Fast draw,which is crucial for RB and RS).

i still believe that even if Perfect Slice received more buffs and became extremely powerful, it remains balanced as it's the most challenging and difficult skill to play with in the entire game. This is especially true after the change to Perfect Slice (where you lose all three stacks upon failure). Particularly in crowded environments (+6 players ), it becomes incredibly difficult to notice the mark or hear its sound (e.g. Additional sounds effects like auto attacks, character footsteps, WB title flame sounds, aura buff, or even when you're in voice chat with the guild) all contribute to an extremely challenging situation.

I believe it's not fair that the Katana offers practically no benefit, neither in sustain nor in burst, even with perfect timing which is nearly impossible due to the distractions I've mentioned before. Meanwhile, using Murk allows you to effortlessly perform well in every situation without stressing over anything

I won't get into the immunity cleaning change since everyone seems to agree on it, but I'd like to explain why the bleed effect from the warrior's slash ability is seriously Broken.

Consider a melee ability in the game; it typically deals 'a%' main hand weapon DPS, where 'a' is a constant number. However, the bleed effect from the slash is different—it's pretty much like a skill that inflicts 'x%' Main Hand weapon DPS, where 'x' adjusts based on your current Damage/Patk. This essentially creates an ability with infinite scaling, triggering automatically every 2 seconds without activating GCD. What's intersting is that when your Patk exceeds a specific threshold, the 'x' scaling becomes significantly higher.

If anyone doubts that the Bleed isn't overpowered, consider this scenario: picture the launch of future content where the new set enhances your raw Patk by a minimum of 20k, along with new weapons, cards, the Dot rune, and additional DMG/Patk from Supports buffs. Now, add an instance like Necro, featuring minimal trash mobs/big pulls, where the primary damage contribution emerges from single-target bursts...

It's undeniable that the bleed effect hardly makes an impact in most scenarios—except for the two situations I previously mentioned. Even if the slash's bleed were removed or its damage formula altered to resemble that of rogue or scout bleeding effects, it wouldn't significantly affect warriors due to the class's single/AoE burst potenial. However, if developers continue introducing instances like Necro or WB with the current Mechanic , an adjustment to the bleed's Forumla becomes crucial. because

literally in such situations no class will stand chance to compete.

I'm referring to the bleed-scaling caused by spear though, not the bleed proc associated with a katana.

I'd like to share my perspective on the Warrior's Bleed skill "Slash." In my opinion, this bleed effect requires necessary adjustments.

This bleed effect becomes extremly strong in two specific scenarios:

1-Burst against any target with an immune effect in the middle of a fight.

This issue is the most troublesome aspect of this bleed effect. Even classes that aren't supposed to benefit from it are experiencing considerable damage contributions. Classes like the Warrior/Druid, known for their insanely high burst damage and perhaps the strongest single-target physical DPS in the game, shouldn't benefit from the bleed proc effect. However, the bleed is contributing an additional +20% overall damage during bursts due to its four procs when the boss is immune. In such situations, not only do you gain an unintended advantage, but you also put the tank in a challenging position since the Warrior is building aggro when the boss is immune. This situation ruins as well the overall competition among other DPS classes,

The solution is straightforward: Remove all debuffs from boss, especially the bleed effect from the boss, immediately after the boss becomes immune.

2-Burst against a boss with exceptionally high defense (e.g., the 4th boss in DC when you skip the event) or most single-target bosses in nostalgic instances.

In such cases, you face significant challenges, especially as a Scout. In my opinion, the only two scout classes that stand a slight chance to compete are Scout/Mage and Scout/Warrior. Even with Rogue, competing is only possible if the boss takes longer than 25-23 seconds or when we don't receive enough (attackspeed/patk buffs), since Rogues generally have higher sustain compared to other classes. The primary solution lies in slightly nerfing the bleed. The issue with the bleed is its exclusive reliance on your current damage (physical damage/attack speed) and your current Patk, without considering a boss's crit resistance or defense. This makes it extremely challenging for other classes, particularly Scouts, who are meant to be strong burst classes but are rendered practically useless in the current state

Scout/Rogue

The bleed from skill "Poisonous Spit(ID:493253)" seem to be using main hand weapon dmg for its dmg calculation (T12 dagger (543.8k/proc) , T15 (586k/proc) . Is this intended? If not can it be changed to use ranged weapon dmg instead. It doesn’t make sense for initial skill hit to use ranged wep dmg and for the bleed to use main hand wep.

Quote from Byte

Quote from moncef

No, it's not a visual Bug, literally all of your skills can crit within 10 seconds. You can try this yourself. For Rogue/Bard, this bug lets you literally have 4 hits of Wound Attack with 50% more damage and ensures that all other skills always crit.

i don't know actually if this problems occurs with other classes or not, but what i'm sure about is that buff is totally bugged. because even with rogue/priest sometimes the buff effects doesn't go away even when i use more then 10 stacks within the 10 seconds.

Video :

This is client side visual bug, other players wouldn't see you are inflicting critical damage I assume. It will be fixed with next patch.

Greetings

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no it's not client side visual bug, other players can also see you criting, here is a demonstration of it, from the point of view of other player

Image :

PoV of other Player inside an ini (in case we assume all Punchbags and baltons in Itnal Camp causes visual bugs :