Posts by melodic

Hey Ravo!

Thanks for replying in detail.

I understand you are annoyed, but my latest experiences have shown me, that without being as direct as I was in my last post, you dont get official replys here anymore.

What also has changed, is that until a certain point in the past, the team tried to understand and properly react to all kinds of issues any players had and you were grateful for any kinds of feedback, be it positive or negative.

Quote from Ravo

If you have 6 players or fewer you should make use of normal mode.

If you want to run hard mode, which gives end game items you either need to recruit more players to your guild or ask in world chat if other players want to run with you.

This shows me that you dont have understood or dont want to understand the issue we have.

We want to be able to run RoFL with less players, not because we are too few active players in our guild.

We dont want to run normal mode, not because there are lesser rewards.

We want to run RoFL HM with lesser players, because as the current state of the game, its balancing and the difficulty of RoFL are, raids simply can deal too much dmg, resulting in less and less fun for dps-classes when they cant even hit mobs or bosses anymore because they are already dead.

Though not being my original intention, but as you put things: Yes, at the moment at least RoFL seems to be badly designed, since the requirement for players to run it is very disproportional to the number of players you need to kill mobs/bosses in a way where everyone still can have fun. Same goes for healers.

There is not much fun in a game, where you as a single person have almost no impact on the success of your party.

And please dont propose running without bufffood to lower raid-dmg-output, this would deny players the possibility to push their characters and classes to the limit, which for many endcontent-players is one of the most basic expectations of games.

Players dont have that issue if they can run with smaller party sizes, this should be very well understandable.

Also for Gorge there is technically no absolute requirement for party sizes during bossfights, there was a limit of four characters, but since you changed Pingou-event, this ini is also runable with 2 characters. I dont say it would work well, I just say its basicly possible.

CoA being an MMORPG should not mean that it is solely playable with large partysizes, it should mean that it is designed for large partysizes, but also possible to be played with smaller ones for those who seek extra challenges, just as it is/was possible in gorge.

It is also sad to see how the way PlayerNet and the team handle this game and its community apparently has changed over time, but if this benefits the majority of players I guess I just have to deal with it, being part of a minority here.

Again, thanks for letting me/us know.

Cheers!

P.S.: If you consider this discussion to be too offtopic for this particular thread by now, please dont just delete it, but move it somewhere else where it has its place. Private or public, I dont mind.

--> Thanks for doing so!!

Thanks for cleaning up the way you did, Alke, this was indeed necessary.

Quote from Ravo

If you want to run RofL with just 6 or less people there is a normal mode for it as several people already mentioned.

So you set this boss as an intentional and definite difficulty limit, beyond which no player is allowed to experience further challenges in this game without using alts?

I would like to hear a clear yes/no here.

Running normal mode with six or less players is significantly less of a challenge than running hardmode with 6 or less players, thus being no option here.

Quote from Byte

Having beyond 30.000 Wisdom, each wisdom is providing 0.00116668416692917060422573005% heal increment.

I guess this means heal balancing is done now and we can start building our gear according to this.

I will hold on to that then and thanks for letting us know!

Allowing an instance to be run with less players just by a number restriction does not make an instance easier, in fact it makes it harder for the lower number of players involved.

However I agree that the need to bring everyone in the raid (e.g. 12 players) into one spot makes it harder for everyone, maybe the requirement to succeed in that event could be changed to everyone present and alive, so dead players and those outside would not count and everyone is happy.

Cheers!

Countless players have already complained about the rng at b1 event. One player in our guild came up with the idea, to change that event to not allow player-buffs and/or chests to occur while the correlating buff from the bosses has been removed. Of course, they need to occur again in case someone made a mistake and some boss gains its buff again.

This would reduce the annoyingly long time for all raids while they just wait to have requirements met to progress by rng....

"Added a buff that gives wisdom equal to 50% of your stamina which will stay until end of class balance."

Honestly this does not solve the problem all heals have, just delays it.

Unless you tell us exactly how wisdom is supposed to impact healing done in the end, all heals will have no idea how they are supposed to stat their gear until the balancing ends and we lose that buff.

Then again, most heals will be ineffective until new gear is built, putting us in the same situation we were before we got that buff.

So either you tell us where wisdom balancing is supposed to end or you allow that buff to stay for a while after wisdom balancing is done, since its quite pointless to start building new gear unless we know how much wisdom we will need for which healoutput!

Again, all this comes down to above mentioned lack of imformation for us players....

I want to give some feedback not on the changes made themselves, but on how the involved devs and PlayerNet as the publisher have acted and handeled the balancing process up to now.

Short version first: Frankly, you scrwed up.

(As you can see from recent reactions here.)

For every balancing process there has to be a straight line that is followed, to achieve a prior to the balancing set goal that needs to be achieved. I hope you had that goal set, otherwise this ends in chaos.

The only clue we players were given from official side before the balancing started, was a statement from Grox months ago, that your goal for this balancing would be to make more class combinations viable to play, thus buffing rarely used classes, maybe nerfing op classes to bring everything to the same level.

Desireable goal, indeed, but:

Apart from that, the playerbase was and is given no information about what your intentions behind all those changes are and in what extent you plan to go on. This is a serious lack of communication.

The one exception is that Byte pointed out, only after much confusion and disappointment from players, what intention is behind splitting up bows and xbows for scouts so much, but even here players dont know if you had planned that from the start or if this is just an excuse you came up with to explain what you did to the scout.

And you have not only done balancing with the patches since 10.2.1.1000, but you have reworked entire classes and class-combinations, which were already working fine, even if out of balance.

Examples for that would be the already mentioned scout and the champion. I believe (almost) all agree that a nerf was nescessary for champs, but not reworking how the class works, considering rage management and skills like rune overload/shock overload.

Nerfing rune overload dmg would have been fine for balancing, why change it and implement a whole new function?

No info on that.

Players who play certain classes that were affected by the "balancing process" (I would call it more of a "reworking process" in this case) surely can go into more detail, what those changes mean for their playstyle.

For healers:

I already asked you to further increase to wisdom needed for healing, however I specificly pointed out a certain transition phase, to give players time to adjust their gear to previous changes.

Obviously you just ignored that and reading certain players reaction tells me that you were wrong doing so.

Personally, I am fine with how changes progress for healers, because healers in my position and their guilds are able to (somehow) deal with that situation but I believe a majority of healers and guilds on the server are not.

Even worse is: we have no idea where this is supposed to end. And especially when!

I bet these questions are on everybodys mind who is playing a class that experiences such extending changes atm, which brings me back to my original point:

You have announced that balancing process would be done in two stages and that the current stage should be called a beta. Fine.

But how is the second phase supposed to look like, if even this phase has such far extending changes?

When will that second phase start? How long will it take? Will there be a "beta" for that, too? What do you plan to do during that stage?

And...How long is THIS stage supposed to last?

All those are points that should have been made clear and questions should have been answered beforehand, not after (I at least hope you will do now) the playerbase is lost in between chunks of patchnotes without any explanations.

The line "Recently ,in the morning I have only one question: which mdps combination will be good today and will I have enough talent points for this." can be translated to all classes and explains so much of what is going wrong atm.

Btw, considering patchnotes: This stage/ladder layout for patchnotes originally is/was a nice treat from Grox, but not only do you regularly scrw up that layout by now, it also is confusing af.

Changes/fixes that are related to another or related to one class, should be grouped and organized, just as the notes for 10.2.1.1000, now it is just chaotic and hard to read. It shows no effort of making the patchnotes readable for players, not even mentioning the consistently missing parts.

Please dont get me wrong, Me and many other players appreciate the effort you put into that balancing itself very much, it sure is a lot of work for you and certainly you intend to make this a better game for everyone, but the way you handle this entire process is just not satisfying, discouraging so many players.

Again, short version: You scrwed up by not communicating.

What I expect from involved Devs and PlayerNet:

Give us a straight line of what we have to expect from the balancing, when and how you plan to achieve this and please dont leave all players (your beta testers) in the dark.

Again you seem to be evading.

I was asking about Grox' statement that the reason for the bug would be a non-existing atk-speed cap, not any solution you were considering.

I marked the possibly misleading part I referred to bold and just left the rest for context.

Quote from Byte

About attack speed limit for other weapons, I can't tell you when it is implemented as I am not entirely sure about exact date, but I can say that probably around 2004 while this game started to be developed.

So you say it has always been exactly like this and Grox was wrong with this: ...?

Quote from Grox

This issue is connected directly with no cap for attack speed. When having too much of attack speed increase bonuses, server attempts to use 2 times main weapon per second, blocking possibility to offhand being used properly.

...or did I misunderstand something here?

Quote from Byte

If you think there is something missed in patch notes, please report us.

If you hadn't ignored the second part of my previous post, you would know that in a way I just did that:

Quote from melodic

Sooo with which patch exactly was this implemented and in which patchnotes was this mentioned, because I never read something like this before, same as those I spoke to about this topic and I believe many pdps especially rogues would have complained about that if it where made common knowledge in any patchnotes, not just Yibsi in the thread I linked where she believed this issue to be a bug, not taking it as intended, as she would have if it were made clear in any patchnotes.

Thanks for evading it, please try to respond properly this time.

Quote from Byte

Please consider that you might have read it wrong

Yes I did consider this, thats why I asked other ppl to confirm my suspicion and thats why I am as sure as I am that originally those patchnotes were phrased differently.

I myself wasnt aware of the autoshot part anymore, another player reminded me of that phrase by saying it without even looking at the current version of those notes.

...and yes, I know autoshot is mentioned there now as well, but definitely not as we remember originally reading it.

Quote from Byte

For your information, all weapons already had attack speed cap except ranged weapons before first patch.

Sooo with which patch exactly was this implemented and in which patchnotes was this mentioned, because I never read something like this before, same as those I spoke to about this topic and I believe many pdps especially rogues would have complained about that if it where made common knowledge in any patchnotes, not just Yibsi in the thread I linked where she believed this issue to be a bug, not taking it as intended, as she would have if it were made clear in any patchnotes.

So again, this behaviour is very intransparent, somehow breaking trust in the team.

Quote from Byte

Ranged weapon attack speed cap isn't related with offhand fix topic.

Well, you should have communicated that a little better then, because the original version (sadly I cant prove that now anymore) of the patch 10.2.1.1000 patchnotes only said something like "set limit for skill autoshot to max. two per second." for scouts, not "Ranged attack speed is limited to 0.5." as it says now.

Nothing about "changed speed limit for physical dmg-calculation of all sources to 0.5".

Changing formulations like these without any further note is intransparent to say the least.

...by the way, if you are already rephrasing those patchnotes, you should add that as a general change, since it basicly affects ALL pdps classes, scouts just suffer(ed) the most from it and thats why this is a topic now.

Having that info is a huge deal for all players, since you cannot expect everyone to test everything in the game after every patch, just because we have to expect changes that are not mentioned as they are in the patchnotes, yet affect our gameplay and gear related decisions.

Players wondering why scouts dealt so much less dmg after patch 10.2.1.1000 is best proof for that, because if that point were made clear from the beginning a statement like this and the entire topic connected to it, would not have occurred as they did:

Quote from espar91

i tested it on the first day, if they didn't revert it, attack speed is capped at 0.5 now unlike pre-patch, i was reaching 0.23 speed values with bow, now i can't

and just a simple math result, that means your burst is nerfed to 50% on burst with bow

Nevertheless this does not solve the dilemma many players are in atm.

Since an official statement here for everyone concerning this topic is long overdue:

The introduction of an atk-speed cap basicly was not part of the previously announced class balancing, but is based upon this bug report.

All we could know is that this bug will be fixed and roughly when, but not exactly in which way and with what consequences.

To quote grox from that thread (which imo includes certain weapon types not becoming nerfed):

Quote from Grox

The only solution is putting cap for attack speed, which means no any form of nerf, but possibility to offhand being used properly, so in fact you can get even better on it, if your offhand weapon is good. However we are still discussing that change, as it needs a lot of tests and researches to make sure it is changed properly, without creating any other issues.

Strictly speaking the opposite of what grox stated there has happened now.

However this change was made simultaniously and has a big impact on class balancing, different from the balancing a bugfix having these consequences was not announced beforehand, so noone could anticipate this.

Classes like the r/m may somehow benefit from this fix, other classes like the scout for example suffered big time because of it.

Btw, another approach to this issue might be to re-reconsider this atk-speed fix to only affect the whitehits done and not having impact on dps-calculation, which int sadly already denied once here.

Cheers!

My first bet is your guildmate using a party for doing mw and you are not...?!

Having a party still greatly increases the droprate, independent of how much drop% you have buffed, those seem to apply extra.

From what I observed while doing mw's it is enough to have a party to have hearts dropping from every mob in there, some say drop% may increase rarer mats to drop, some say it doesnt, but again, for hearts to drop all you need is a party.

Quote from Niirtii

I think that the healers, druids and priests, have lost their individuality.

Every priest & druid now gives a matt/pattbuff, no matter which combination you play. The skills that the individual class combos have made up have no value anymore.

Just a pity.

I totally agree with this, however I see why non-healers do like this change. But from a healers perspective before you had to think about what sec-class benefits the raid you are with the most thus playing different combos from time to time.

Now everyone just plays the combo he/she likes the most and/or is best for healing.

Since changing everything to raid-effects seems to be the new thing here, I would ask to change Divine Shield and Group Heal ro raid effects as well.

Druids recently got way more viable raid heals besides Fountain, e.g. Camellia Flower and Healing Wind and there also are way stronger dmg-reduces like Shield of the Otherwold with less CD, so I believe priests deserve a push here too, to keep them up with other classes...

Cheers!

Quote from Rakot_Hades

Well, in that case please don't allow to stack ma buffs [...]

Well, this is what just happened. Reread patchnotes.

Quote from Rakot_Hades

champ got nerfed by 20% in rune pulse

Again, reread patchnotes, there you will find the answer to why...this "nerf" actually wasn't a nerf at all.

...but I guess since you have me blocked, this attempt of mine to clear things up for you is pointless...at least I hope others wont be as disappointed then as you are now.

I seriously hope that the dev-team does not act on feedback from people who obviously do not have any understanding of the games mechanics for dmg- and stats-calculation.

Otherwise this whole balancing project is doomed.

I do not mean to offend or provoke anyone with this comment, I just want the balancing process to have merit.

Thanks for understanding.

You also need to adjust

-function LI.ScanFullBag()

in Helper.lua for itemfilters to work correctly.

Quote from Remaxan

I don't know how much wisdom affect healing since i didnt change my gear, don't plan it atm, and we don't have healer with wisdom in our guild. But with current gear im still healing enough amount even if it's less than before patch.

Exactly thats part of my point. Thanks for supporting it!

Quote from Remaxan

Heal which was healing party was D/W. Tank (me) was d/wd. All we was using was healing spells, i used at start some earth arrows to build some aggro, later just Mother Earth's Fountain and recover. About 2nd heal i don't think he used something else than recover on me.

Healing also generates aggro in case you never noticed.

So are you sure that the other healer did not just generated more than you at some point and you did not update your hatelist by targeting Ymir again?

How far into the fight did this happen?

Also some pets have skills that temporarily reduce your aggro to 0, resulting in the bear switching its target to 2nd highest in hatelist. Check if you were using one of those.

Quote from Remaxan

Healing Ripple - I think increasing amount of people it can heal to 5 would be good change (best would be raid but maybe it's too much) since you are changing some party effects into raid and he is lacking it.

I strongly oppose such changes.

Believe it or not, healers who already use a considerable amount of wisdom on their gear have become way more effective in healing with the latest changes, resulting in way higher healing capabilities than before.

Even before heals were hitting too high, resulting in massive overheals and once you have more than 50k wisdom fullbuffed, this becomes even more, ending in ridicolous heals with 120k+ wis and above.

Also having high scaling HoTs as of now makes healing more convenient, while having passive-healing classes like M/R in raid healthbars do not really move anymore bevause any dmg the raid takes is healed so fast.

All this makes a healers job so much less challenging, that wherever you are, the amount of healers needed somewhat is reduced by one.

Solo healing RoFL wasnt a big deal before, now its just everdays trade.

So what are all those useless "extra" healers that are not needed anymore in the future once everyone has built new gear with enough wisdom supposed to do? It will be quite frustrating for them to see that their job has no real impact, since one heal can do it alone.

Atm one wis/wis legends on each item is enough wisdom to heal as much as before the changes, so basicly the need for wisdom is there, but not high enough to force healers to use that attribute more than once per item on their gear.

For comparison, a dps needs way more than just one p-/m-atk stat on their gear to reach atk values to be able to do any dmg in inferno+ instances.

In my opinion healers should be forced to use more than one wisdom stat on their gear to have equal capabilities in those instances.

Please consider to further reduce the wisdom-scaling in the future after a certain transition phase to allow healers to change their gear, so that many are not rendered useless while still having almost no wisdom on they gear.

Should you decide to do so, an official statement on how much wisdom ultimatly will be required for how much heal-output would be great, so that healers are able to plan their next items and dont just have to guess how much wisdom possibly would be needed.

Cheers!

Quote from Tygormann

If it uses the 104 healing gear and stats for damage, It'll miss out on a lot of needed attack power to keep up while still being mediocre at healing. If it uses the battle cloth set (level 100 is the highest) it loses out by using under level gear and that it doesn't have any set bonuses.

You can use chain gear with this combination, so if you want to heal, use healers gear and if you want to dps then use chain gear. If you want to do both at the same time with the same gear, you will have to deal with the fact that you wont be as effective as when focusing on just one of those.

Converting wisdom into strength would not help that much, because you still do not convert all other values that depend on what gear you use, wisdom on chain gear makes a weak healer while not converting and converting wisdom from healers gear gives you more patk, but no crit and pdmg.

Also being able to play two entirely different roles with one gear just by using one skill is a very strong feature, just as champs can swap from full dps to full tank in an instant if the need arises, however switching like that between dps and heal I would consider even more powerful.

So being able to do just that should at least require to build a second gear in this case, not just using a single skill.

Well, I guess this explains why scouts deal less dmg than before, especially compared to other classes, doesn't it?

And I believe how good you play your class does not even matter, since its just a matter of dmg-calculation.

Quote from melodic

similar gear and skill-lvl

...and here we go:

Quote from Varondil

the old champ did not need to time his spells and cd well to do top dps. But if you timeed your spells and cd right you could get near the old champ as scout

Here you obviously compare different palyers with different skill-lvl.

As champion it indeed matteres/-d when to use which skills and buffs.

If your assumption were correct, all players playing as champions and similar gear would have dealt the same dmg all the time, but this is/was not the case.

You see a lot of champion players dealing more dmg than others, having similar gear.

So comparing a scout with "optimal" skill usage/timing with a champion with suboptimal skill usage/timing does not work at all.

Thats just what my previous post was all about.

Just reconsider.

Thanks.

Quote from Varondil

well we have done some runs aswell and i did run with a lot of diffrent classes. it is easy to be on first place in scrut as scout. well maybe not that easy as it is with other classes but it is also the to hard to do

Logic?

If its easier with other classes to deal most dmg, why are they not 1. place in scrut then?

And as long as you say its "easier" with other classes, Lutines point is proven I would say.

Can't say this often enough apparently:

You should always compare players with similar gear and skill-lvl to get reasonable results about how classes compare to each other and look at an entire run, not just specific situations, because obviously here different strengths and weaknesses of classes come into play.

For every class there should be a good balance in strengths and weaknesses throughout an instance, otherwise it favours certain classes more than others and this fact will have to be taken into consideration as well.

So for the best results dont just look at one instance but all that are regularly run.

Quote from Varondil

as my last informations from a dev were 1.2 dex and 1.3 str for scout and 1.3 dex and 1.2 str for rogue.

Last time I asked Grox about that after doing my own calculations he told me Devs are not allowed to validate or give any info about game mechanics in this depth. So I guess the team should revise their policy concerning stuff like that bringing all Devs to the same page.

Quote from Varondil

In my opinion it woild not be a good change. Yes, it is doable right now but you would lose patt as scout and
as rogue and no you would no do the same damage as you can notice every single point of patt in rolf and even in gorge. The real question is why do you guys want to change a running system the is in the game since day 1? (with some exceptiones, like rt time)

I dont care if any change here is made or not since it does not affect me in any way, though I am wondering too why all of a sudden this has become a topic, being as it is and working since day1 of this game