Posts by melodic

Quote from MidanLauert

Changes should be made to accomodate the class in it's current form. [...]

And once the aggro formula is reworked we may see master of aggro return to what it's supposed to be. For the meantime the class should be made viable because it's skills are really cool. It would be my favorite class if it worked properly.

Class balancing is a process. I do not care about any fastest ways to make something work/playable, but we should look at the bigger picture and follow a certain path towards a set goal. This goal is supposed to be a game in which most classes are most equally viable to play in the end.

It shouldnt matter if one or more classes are still just borderline playable or even unplayable during this process, as long as we know they are not forgotten about and will be adjusted before the balancing officially is done.

Putting effort into classes just to make them as viable as others for the time being, only to change them once again at a later point in time means nothing less for the devs than a waste of time and ressources and annoys players with unnecessary changes, prolonging the balancing as a whole.

While giving feedback in this thread you should not just follow your personal preferences (being able to play the classes you like most asap), but also try to be objective and take the whole process into consideration and if your suggestions will actually make a difference for it in the end. Even if this means that you have to be patient and wait for a little longer until your favourite class is viable.

Personally, I think healers still need a lot of rework as well, but I understand that the dev-team has limited resources and that healers are not top priority atm, so I am fine with them not being changed for now.

In case the aggro-transfer gets abandoned for whatever reasons, you still can make further suggestions for this class...Of course this would require a little more effort in communication from the team to let us know, but this generally seems to be a lingering issue...

Cheers!

I understand the issue you are having, but:

Quote from MidanLauert

The investment is extreme (8-9 new pieces of gear) for a mediocore outcome. One could just play a champion and be able to tank in damage gear without having specialized equipment.

Quote from MidanLauert

This is why classes that want to play as tank should be able and partially even forced to wear plate armour IMO.

...statements like these dont go with each other. If you want to force tanks to wear (partially) plate, whats wrong with wearing tanky accessory, wings, offhands etc? There it does not even matter if you already own that sort of gear or if you have to build new pieces, as you can use them on any class the same.

In my opinion noone should be forced to build tanky chain gear, if chain classes are designed to be a tank, they should be able to tank in their dps chain gear, maybe having additional accessory/wings etc as a bonus. The drawback however should be a less powerful tank in terms of sustainability/aggro/support than plate tanks provide.

That being said I can only repeat myself, as wd/ch in its current state is not unplayable:

Quote from melodic

I loved the original idea for this class and I hope our devs can find a solution for the issues they encountered with this aggro-transfer. Until they had the opportunity to give it another shot I am fine with leaving the class as it currently is, which is I reckon a "temporary solution".

If further changes were made to this class now, the need to take another look at its original concept would disappear, which I would not want to happen.

Cheers!

Quote from MidanLauert

Yup. It's still about 9% more damage taken than most other tanks that quite easily reach max parry rate. And, 1.2 million def is not enough at all. You need specialized chain gear that has loads of useless stats for you. That's my point

Can you clarify this a little more? What do you mean with "9% more dmg taken"?

Your statement that "most tanks quite easily reach max parry rate" is more than a slight exaggeration, hopefully you and our devs know that, so saying stuff like that does not really serve the goal we all try to achieve here.

Also in my t11 gorge chain gear which does not even have sta/str on every piece I have more pdef with only the pet summoned (which is the sole buff that is supposed to close the gap to plate gear for this class) than unbuffed in my current plate tank gear, which is uncomparably stronger. Self-buffed I get to 3kk+ pdef on this class, which is roughly the same amount as I had in my old gorge plate gear as Knight, which overall was one tier higher. The only reason Wardens dont have as much pdef as Knights anymore is the nerv of Briar Shield.

Yes, you do not get the same pdef+hp(+parry) values from full dps gear with this class as a plate wearing class, but why should you. Being able to tank everything in dps chain gear just as good as in tank plate gear would devalue plate gear even more and make chain gear even more superior to all other types of gear. This is not the purpose of balancing.

I loved the original idea for this class and I hope our devs can find a solution for the issues they encountered with this aggro-transfer. Until they had the opportunity to give it another shot I am fine with leaving the class as it currently is, which is I reckon a "temporary solution".

And in the end: If you want to play Warden in plate gear, play wd/k or wd/w, I dont think we need a third option for diversity.

Cheers!

Quote from OnlyAgul

If you class is a tank, combine Onid (Stamina + Maximum HP) and Salo (Stamina + Physical Defense) to get the skill Burning Aggression (Increase Physical Damage by 15)

But there are many other pets combinations to get different skills.

Furthermore in case your examples are supposed to be the "best" options: Ardes is stronger than Salo in all regards, unless you run instances unbuffed.

Apart from that, a well done guide!

Cheers!

Quote from Nghty

1. "Touch of Revival" with that you can heal raid members in a fan shape area in front of you. But the fan shape area is a bit tricky and you need some time to ajust your position in right way to heal you raid.

Great skill indeed, it is however suffering from this issue I reported ages ago in this thread, which has not been adressed since:

Quote from melodic

priest/warlock

lv20 elite healing effect is reduced by about half with each target hit, resulting in very inconsitent heals and the most distant target (mostly tanks) being healed by almost nothing.

As I hope this is not intentional: Please fix!

Cheers!

Up to a certain point Group Heal is spammable and in case you need to heal huge amounts (yeah, currently you dont) you can get your castspeed down to 0.5 and as fountain has a gcd of 1 second, you effectively are faster and able to heal more in a certain amount of time. Yes your first heal in such cases will be 0.5 sec later, but your next heal will be 0.5 sec earlier and in situations where you can anticipate incoming dmg, the cast time of 0.5 sec or more isnt even any delay, since you can just start casting earlier. This is the flexibility I was talking about. Fountain itself has zero flexibility in such cases.

This example should show that Group Heal is in no way inferior to fountain, it just works differently thus having different pros and cons. This example should also show how far away we currently are from maxing out the actual healing potential of healers.

Just because there are overpowered skills like Curing Shot you dont need to buff all other skills that actually work fine, just nerf Curing Shot.

Positioning is situational just as almost everything else about healers and if you decide to stand next to your tanks and melee dps or at 250 range to only spam urgent should depend on even that situation. Making good decisions in positioning based on what situations you and your raid are in is one important aspect of being a capable healer. Furthermore is standing next to mobs not risking your life if you yourself are tanky enough.

Having 220k+ wis and healing 1kk+ with urgent but not enough hp+def to sustain dmg and not being able to react properly to certain situations or even dying does not help your raid that much. It just makes you unreliable as a heal in situations that went out of hand and where your raid actually needs to rely on you.

Of course these are choices every healer has to make for themselves, depending on their preferred playstyle.

Druids are not better than priests in "hard" situations, they are better in "easy" situations and the game simply lacks hard situations. As long as fountain+hots is remotely enough to heal incoming dmg you are still in very easy situations, as you could heal with an alt+makro just as good as you yourself.

And believe me, in gorge priests are far superior to druids if you are pushing the limits. If your raid is too strong anyway, it is easy game for druids again.

Imagine heals not healing way too much and fighting against Balton and Jerath or b1(+0def-debuff) at the same time. At first you would want to have a druid to heal the dmg on the raid from Balton and you would want to have a priest to heal the tank additionly. You should have noticed that priests do a better job than druids at healing tanks at b1 and b3, where they actually take some dmg.

Now imagine this fight takes more than 30 seconds and the DoT from Balton surpasses the heal you can do with your fountain(+hots) every 4 seconds. Then you might want to have a priest in each party that is able to start spamming Group Heal instead of spamming a mere fountain v2.0 .

For sure it is easier to adjust classes so that they suit the current content best and that they all work as good as any other for it, but this would destroy this games diversity in classes, as each class would be good in the same situations.

However this would result in the next content being very similar to the current one and/or the entire process of redesigning classes starting anew.

I doubt that the majority of players would want that to happen.

I fear I already drifted a little too far from actual feedback to explain my point of view, thats why this will be it from me concerning Group Heal. I just hope it stays untouched for now.

As I said, I think the team should focus on dps classes first.

Cheers!

Quote from mrugal82

- reduce cast time to 1 seconds which makes healers' reaction time more efficiency,

- increase it's healing from group to raid,

- increase it's radius to 200 from 120 (that let the healers heal that fuckin' tank which always run away with mobs from the healer while casting healing spells),

- obviously reduce it's healing maybe half for the begin (if Group Heal would heal still too much just reduce it's healing a little bit more),

- increase it's cooldown time to 4 seconds (the same time as Fountain has),

- remove mana cost debuff.

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I am practicly against all changes listed there.

1. 3sec base castspeed is one of the upsides of Group Heal, if you are too slow, just use some buffs for castspeed, it is quite easy to get below 1sec casttime, making it effectively even faster than mother earths fountain.

2. Might be an option, however not at this point and not without further extensive rework of priest combinations. I dont like priests and druids to be too similar.

3. Just no. I testet wl/d just yesterday and must say having 200 range AoE heal is just way too strong. If your tanks run too far away from your heals, either work on your own positioning or let them die so that they can learn not to run away. Anyway thats an issue that needs to be solved by changing your playstyle, not adjusting skills.

4. Along with all heals it for sure still heals too much, but compared to other healing skills I think it is fine.

5. same as 2., please dont change this skill to be fountain v2.0 .

6. I dont really like the debuff either, but there needs to be something that prevents priests from spamming only Group Heal all day long (like in the old days, lol) without removing the room for flexibility you still have with this skill+debuff. I couldnt think of any better solution for that and adding a fixed cooldown to this skill would kill the flexibility you have as a priest.

All in all priests and druids should not be too similar in my opinion. Priests always were stronger in healing and protecting individual targets and druids were always stronger in healing the raid alltogether, which does not necessarily make a druid superior to a priest.

The problem is that the performance of healers is heavily dependent on what content you are in and that currently compared to the possible healing output there is way too low dmg input for raids in the game so without having properly hard endcontent, balancing healers is even more pointless than balancing tanks.

That druids are able to solo-heal a full rofl raid only is possible because healing the raid alltogether is enough and there is no need to heal individual targets....and that you do not get cc'ed in rofl, unlike in gorge for example.

Cheers!

Quote from Zyrex

I have to correct my thoughts of "Disregard Danger" after I tested this again and discussed with mates - the hit isn't deadly for the target, but it's still nearly impossible to manage the timing if you get hit by multiple targets at the same time. So you could just replace it with some kind of self-buff as suggested above.

I believe you misunderstood how the skill works in general.

I dont know what you did, but if you had tested it properly you would have noticed that this skill works similar to Chain of Life - the hit your target recieves is reduced and transferred to yourself, not the other way around. So in no way can it be used to kill anyone, but safe them from a rather high hit.

So there also is no "timing if you get hit by multiple targets" required. Just use that skill on any party member when you anticipate them to get hit by anything they will likely not survive otherwise. 10 seconds bufftime are more than enough for that, healers have dmg reducing skills that last only 5 or even 3 seconds and they are well manageable, too.

I also dont think any changes to Shot are necessary, as lv40 elite "Holy Resistance(?)" is fine for gaining aggro on range, one could add a higher aggromulti here, but I also dont think this is necessary. And you cant do much anyway while spamming a non-gcd Shot.

...and please dont add any spammable non-gcd skills to Knights, I dont want that class to devolve into being played with combat engines only, too.

I do have several ideas for tanks and heals and how to improve/balance them, but I believe it is more important to first focus on balancing dps classes, so I will not share them until there is an end in sight for dps balancing.

Cheers!

Can confirm, however I have never seen him being immune this long.

Since he is not always immune, I believe that this behaviour is not intended at all.

Cheers!

ch/d

lv35 elite rune recovery (ID 1490573) does also trigger when a critical recovery is cast, no only rune pulse.

Please fix, because like that playing this class as an active caster is way too strong.

Cheers!

Quote from espar91

nyways scrut example of sacred doesn't give any reliable info about mentioned classes because it don't have details of each part of instance.

this might be true, however you should also pay attention to the part below:

Quote from Sean

It has to be added that Lutine started the run as R/K and switched roughly after first pull (~400-500kk) and was on the phone when we started last one (~250kk). He did the most damage on Nayat (although 2 sec more and Sere would have been on top), were even on Khat + adds, Jerath: Sere 698kk (1x) vs Lutine 819kk (2x), Balton: equal, Astaroth: Sere 1,4kkk vs 960kk.

We failed to save specific scrutinizers from certain situations and these dmg values are reconstructed from a recording I made and the overall scrut I had while doing so, comparing before-after each boss/situation.

So these values may not be the most accurate ones, but accurate enough to be able to conclude that wl/wd was way too strong overall, also regarding the other aspects Sean pointed out in his post. I believe this was the whole point, weighing in on the ongoing discussion with that based conclusion.

If you want to look at the run in detail and dont mind the casual healers point of view, let me know and I will upload the vid to yt.

Cheers!

Quote from MidanLauert

WL/M specifically boosts elemental damage alongside it's other support skills. Short cooldown burst is already king for trash for ROFL, which the wl excels at (and the wl/wd even moreso). With very little damage dealers to compete in terms of trash this accellerates the issue even further. Scout also doesn't deal much elemental damage outside of specific combinations.

You however forgot to mention the fact that scouts recieve an almost permanent ~20% dmg boost from warped charge, which wl/wd in particular does not profit from at all, using only skills without a scaling cast time. *

The debuff for elemental dmg is not always on every mob, especially not those who get pulverized within less than 2 seconds and certainly not on any mobs during big pulls, which still die wihtin a few seconds.

And we all know that the majority of dmg is dealt to trashmobs in rofl. So dont think a wl/m would shift the scrutinizer in favor of a wl instead of a scout, it does not.

Cheers!

Edit: * Well, except Weakening Weave Curse, to be precise...

I dont know anything about this class, but while using Stone Shell as wl/wd, your dmg taken is actually increased by 12% instead of reducing it. Also while in Willpower Construct this amount it quadrupled as it technicly should...but still dmg taken is increased. Please fix.

Cheers!

One should also mention, that all warlocks in general have quite good support potential with their battle res, Surge of Awareness/Paradoxon, Mind Barrier and ISS lv85, 95, 98 which all can be utilized depending on the situation - so allowing them to be top dps AND being able to support the raid like this might be a bit too much compared to other classes.

Cheers!

what wl/wd lacks at the moment is PSI recovery, which will change with the next patch. Having a better PSI management will allow this class to be played more smoothly, increasing its dmg, especially during offburst.

This change is necessary, as I pointed out earlier, but to what extent is open to debate.

Also Severed Consciousness will be buffed, which should also increase all warlocks dmg.

You guys should keep that in mind, before complaining about the nervs for wl/wd, which supposedly will "kill" this combo.

Quote from Zyrex

The only thing is, that you deal insane dmg with wl/m and m/wl in party, since you can increase your dark damage that much

wl/m and m/wl do not increase dark dmg for other warlocks any more than any other element for any other class. In fact only classes with dark dmg that cannot apply Weakening Weave Curse themselves profit more form wl/m than others.

I believe I never pointed this out in this thread, so here is my point of view on how to approach the balancing in general:

In my opinion it is imporant to first focus on combos for each main class and bring them to one level, in warlocks case wl/w, /s /r /ch /wd as dps. This should happen indepenent of how these combos perform compared to other main classes. And from what I hear and see there are still significant differences between secondary combos for certain main classes.

Only then as a second step you should start balancing all main classes to each other by adjusting skills that increase elemental dmg (Ill Will/Elemental Knowledge etc) or weapon dmg (2h/Ranged Weapon Mastery etc) for a mainclass and all its secondary classes roughly in the same way.

This might affect certain combos differently. As a third step, you might then start making individual changes for these cases, by adjusting specific elite skills once more to bring them all to one level.

Combos like s/wl or wd/d will need individual balancing anyway due to their mechanics.

As long as each particular class combination is changed individually and compared to each other class combination in the game, which currently all perform differently, we will not come to an end here for a very long time.

Like that there are just too many factors that have an influence on balancing.

So coming back to warlocks, while giving feedback I think it is best to first focus on how each warlock combo performs compared to other warlock dps combos, disregarding how they all perform to other main classes.

Yes, this will not result in an immediate result where any 4 pdps and mdps in a raid deal all 25% of overall dmg after the next patch, but all in all this will make the whole process way less complicated.

Yes, this propably will result in your favourite class performing worse with all its combos than other classes for longer than until the next patch, but some classes suffer this fate already anyway and again: all in all this will make the whole process way less complicated.

After all what we are trying to achieve here is proper balancing, not the fastest way to the top in the scrutinizer.

Of course points of view may differ, but that is how I see the situation as someone who rarely plays dps nowadays.

Cheers!

Changed Charged Chop to provide Devastating Chop effect for 10 seconds that is recovering 1 Psi every second, effect can’t be triggered again within 20 seconds after it wears off.

- I do not like this solution either, like others now I suggested already for wl/k that there could be only a chance to gain PSI from Charged Chop - be it on crit hits or a set %chance, idc (a set %chance could vary between Construct/Blade in favor of tanks) -

Anyway it looks way better like this than the previous solution.

I wouldnt mind if the current solution were implemented, but then we should keep a close eye on this skill and stay open for further changes, that serve both variations of wl/wd - depending on actual performance in instances.

Cheers!

Changed Charged Chop to provide 1 Psi under effect of Willpower Construct as long as you aren’t under effect of Willpower Blade under effect of Willpower Blade and Willpower Construct, and provide 2 Psi if you aren’t under of neither of effects.

Well...is it aprils fools already?!

This only makes it worse.

Charged Chop is one of the strongest skills this combo has, which can be spammed additional and with minor drawback along with all other skills a wl has. I did not test this in any instance, but I believe gaining 2 PSI for tanky wl/wd using the Construct still is no option.

For dps you even pushed the PSI gain, which is insane and contrary to what I tried to point out with my latest feedback...and obviously I am not the only one who has that point of view.

I am sorry to be this direct, but whoever made this decision should reevaluate their understanding of warlocks and their strengths and weaknesses, because with this you eleminate their biggest weakness by pushing their strengths at the same time.

Even for wl/k gaining 1 PSI with EVERY hit of Charged Chop is too much imo, but for tanks who do not directly compete with other classes in a raid this might be fine, yet allowing a dps to have near infinite PSI...I have no words.

Cheers!

Changed Charged Chop to provide 1 Psi under effect of Willpower Construct as long as you aren’t under effect of Willpower Blade.

I hope this is a mistake, because allowing Charged Chop to recover PSI in Willpower Blade resembles a mental meltdown from my point of view. The reasons should be obvious.

Cheers!

Since latest patch the dmg values from heals show only as white (like light dmg) instead of green and healing taken by ch/d heals is shown as physical dmg (red). This issue occurs only when colored dmg values are activated in interface settings. Please fix!

https://gyazo.com/ad9f65b3298a56c5991269553c80fda3

https://gyazo.com/86f18d421c3423aee5b72a159adb31bf

Cheers!

Quote from Killforlive

SCOUT/WARDEN is weak too. Damage is nearly half in comparison with SCOUT/CHAMPION

If you think so, then post your opinion in the actual feedback thread, where it and this whole thread actually belong.

# moved by moderator

If you want to encourage changes, then best add some reasonable suggestions on how to improve the class you are talking about.

Doing that will help the DEV-team more than just saying "x/y is too weak!!1" without any further information form your side. Be constructive, not whiny.

Cheers!

Quote from faolain

1. + x % Aggro or

2. - x% DMG taken or

3. + Resictanceagainst DMG from Monsters

If anything I would suggest +parry for two steadfast cenedrils combined, but I dont think even this is necessary. Everything else is just way too much.

Cheers!

I just noticed that druid/wardens "Healing Ripple" (ID: 494323) does not heal magic immune targets anymore. pls fix!

Cheers!

Regarding planned wl/wd:

"...Power of the Wood Spirit to inflict 1440 dark damage to targets around your target with 225 range...."

-- 225(!) range spammable AoE around target? srsly?!!

Enhanced Weave Curse

Increases all attributes by 12.8% for 1800 seconds.

-- Is this supposed to be a self-buff or is this enhancing the regular 6% for the raid? Giving the raid double the current bonus seems too strong and unnecessary under current circumstances.

Also you design this class to be heavily dependent on Willpower Construct while it is supposed to be a tank, yet you have no way to recover substantial amounts of PSI while being in Constructs. Leaving the Construct (temporarily) to gain PSI again is no option while tanking, but at the same time you rework skills like Otherworldly Whisper to be used somewhat regularly, not even to mention other defensive skills.

So it is again a similar issue as the wl/k had, making this class practicly unplayable - being viable is far out of the question at this point.

Cheers!

...which originates from the fact that all those setskill were brought into the game at different times as buffed versions compared to the previous ones. Once you know that it should be quite understandable why ISS with the "same" functionality cannot be used at the same time.

To make this thread somewhat constructive: A solution might be to update all tooltips with a note what ISS cant be used together, currently obviously not all have this note.

Cheers!

Quote from Zyrex

"Dark Knight" should also enable to use plate armor additionally and somehow transform physical crit into magical (and physical attack into magical).

If you want a magical tank, it should use cloth armor. If you are going to play it with plate, just play any other existing class that tanks in plate armor...

Also you have a bunch of AoE skills as warlock, as long as the class has enough (dark) dmg and aggro buffs your (AoE-) skills do not necessarily need their own aggromulti.

I somehow doubt that the wl/k is designed to be a full-on tank, but more as a situational/off- tank with decent (defensive) support and some dmg dealing potential. However as it is now, I cannot think of situations where it will be viable and able to keep up with other classes that can do a similar job, despite having very interesiting skills.

In any case this class needs some further clarification (explanation) what its function is supposed to be.

Dark Knight

Enhances Enhanced Shield to provide 100% physical defense instead.

-- What skill is this reffering to?!

If you mean Enhanced Armor, this class will have a massive lack in defense compared to other tanks, as for example plate armor provides about double the pdef of cloth, so increasing the pdef by just ~30% compared to plate users is not really enough to even tank stuff temporarily while in (regular) cloth gear.

In my opinion this class should be playable in mdps cloth gear and in case someone builds extra gear for it, it should be able to do a similar job as other tanks, similar to how k/m works, which also depends on "Holy Light Domain".

Hatred

Increases your aggro by 186% for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds

-- In case this class is supposed to wear cloth armor, you will also need to compensate for the >85% aggro decrease from current armor(sets). This skill combined with Darkbringer will hardly be enough. You also have no taunt as wl/k, which would be very useful as an offtank.

Denial of Death

Reduces cooldown of Life Weave to 3 minutes and removes its Psi cost.

-- As you have to enter Willpower Construct anyway to use this skill, you still require Psi to use it. So I would suggest to remove the Willpower Construct requirement additionally.

Furthermore this class will have some issues building Psi in the first place, as I guess besides AoEs you mainly will spam Dark Strike (especially if this will have increased aggro) while tanking and relying on casts with a base speed of 3sec to get Psi is very impractical in such situations. Maybe allow critical Dark Strikes to give Psi.

At this point I also want to mention, that Locked Heart and Mind Barrier are very strong skills, but combined with the Psi issues of this class, they will not be as conveniend to use as other (tank) classes defensive skills. So either solve the Psi issues, or reduce these skills cost on this class to 2 Psi (NOT 1!) or increase the duration of Locked Heart and allow using skills but decrease the dmg reduce a little. This should compensate for the squishy cloth dps gear.

I love Dreadful Sleep btw, it is a great skill, only the CD seems a little too high. 40-50sec should be fine, 30sec however would be too low.

As this post is about the defensive side of Warlocks, I also want to metion that the skills "Shield of Solid Mind" and "Saces' Embrace" still use the "old Healing Bonus", which is half of your current mdmg. Please adjust their tooltips to clarify this or change their functionality, but in their current state they are quite misleading.

Cheers!