Awakened Levels [Patch 12.1.3.1000]

  • Moin,

    ich wollte einfach mal ein persönliches Feedback zum aktuellen Patch geben.

    Grundsätzlich kann ich nachvollziehen, dass der neue Content nicht innerhalb weniger Tage komplett durchgespielt werden soll.

    Dass man sich wieder etwas länger mit dem Spiel beschäftigt und auch ältere Instanzen erneut besucht, finde ich an sich völlig in Ordnung.


    Was ich allerdings nicht ganz verstehe, ist die Entscheidung, dass man scheinbar über einen sehr langen Zeitraum immer wieder dieselbe Instanz farmen muss.

    Viele von uns kennen diese Inhalte mittlerweile in- und auswendig und haben sie bereits unzählige Male gespielt.

    Irgendwann fehlt da einfach die Motivation, immer wieder denselben Ablauf zu wiederholen.

    Etwas mehr Abwechslung oder mehrere Möglichkeiten, an die benötigten Gegenstände zu kommen, würden das Ganze deutlich angenehmer gestalten.


    Der größte Kritikpunkt für mich sind allerdings die fünf neuen Rezepte.

    Die Ankündigung „Es gibt 5 neue Rezepte – viel Glück!“ wirkt auf mich leider etwas unglücklich formuliert.

    Ohne irgendeinen Hinweis, wo man diese Rezepte erhalten kann – ob sie in einer bestimmten Instanz droppen, von bestimmten Gegnern kommen oder irgendwo gekauft werden können – fühlt man sich als Spieler eher planlos.

    Ein kleiner Anhaltspunkt oder ein bewusst eingebautes Hinweissystem würde die Suche deutlich interessanter machen, ohne direkt alles zu verraten.

    So wirkt es aktuell eher frustrierend als motivierend.


    Das soll kein Angriff sein, sondern einfach mein persönlicher Eindruck.

    Ich hoffe, dass ihr das Feedback als konstruktive Kritik versteht und vielleicht darüber nachdenkt, ob man den Spielfluss an einigen Stellen etwas abwechslungsreicher und transparenter gestalten kann.


    ________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Hello,


    I'd like to share some personal feedback regarding the latest patch.

    First of all, I completely understand that the new content isn't supposed to be finished within just a few days.

    I also think it's perfectly reasonable that players have to revisit older instances as part of the progression.

    However, what I don't really understand is why it seems like we're expected to farm the same instance over and over again for what feels like years.


    Most of us have already cleared these instances countless times, and at some point it simply becomes repetitive and takes away the enjoyment.

    Having a bit more variety or multiple ways to obtain the required materials would make the experience much more enjoyable.


    My biggest concern, though, is the introduction of the five new recipes.

    The announcement, "There are 5 new recipes – good luck!", came across as a little frustrating to me.

    We aren't given any indication of where these recipes can be obtained—whether they drop from a specific instance, certain monsters, or can be purchased somewhere.

    I'm not asking for exact locations or a complete guide, but at least a small hint would make the hunt feel more engaging instead of leaving players completely in the dark.

    Right now, it feels more frustrating than exciting.

    This isn't meant as an attack on the developers—it's simply my personal opinion and constructive feedback.

    I hope you'll consider making the progression a bit more varied and providing players with at least some direction when introducing new content like this.




    • Official Post

    Hey!

    Erstmal vielen Dank für dein Feedback!

    Mit den Erweckungsstufen haben wir einfach nur ein altes Ziel aufgegriffen: Alte Instanzen über einen langen Zeitraum relevant bleiben zu lassen. Instanzen wie die Verlassene Abtei, Kalin oder Necro eignen sich perfekt, um in kleineren Gruppen durch kürzere Runs Möglichkeiten in kleinere Gilden oder jene im Aufbau zu bringen. Mit fortschreitender Zeit und Updates verlieren dann natürlich diese Instanzen an Wert und Relevanz.
    Neue Instanzen haben jedoch Grundsätzlich die Erwartung, schwerer als die Vorherige zu sein, was einen großen Teil der Spielerschaft ausschließt. Dadurch entsteht ein Loch im Content für die Community, dessen Komfort-Instanz kaum noch (bis gar nicht) kostendeckend ist, während sie insgesamt noch nicht bereit für den neuen Content sind (und auch schlechter werden können).


    Zudem kommt, dass sich viele innerhalb der Community (vor allem High-End-Gilden) gewünscht haben, alte Instanzen wieder relevanter zu gestalten um das Endgame mit mehr Instanzen auszufüllen. Mit dem Design der derzeitigen Belohnungen erlauben wir inkrementalen Fortschritt, wodurch selbst nieder- oder basisstufige Runs noch Wert behalten, sollte man nicht stark genug für den höchsten Modus sein.
    Mit der Freischaltung der nächsten Instanz (welche in kurzer Zeit folgen wird ;) ) werden wir auch den nächsten Schwierigkeitsgrad hinzufügen, welcher den Loot enorm anheben wird. Dies wird mit so ziemlich jedem Content-Release von nun an passieren: Es ist nicht vorgesehen, in dieser kurzen Zeit hochrangige Runen zu erspielen, sondern mit den voranschreitenden Modis höhere Runen erreichen zu können, vor allem nicht erst 22 stunden nach dem Release, wenn noch einiges zu finden ist.


    Hinweise zu der Quelle der neuen Rezepte findet man in deren Namen: Das Rezept für den Antrieb des Ozeans wird man eher unwahrscheinlich im Ursprung finden. ;) Um es einfacher zu gestalten, werden wir die Namen der Rezepte in die Patchnotes hinzufügen.

    Hooroo,
    Brontes
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Hey,

    First of all, thank you for your feedback!

    With Awakening Levels we simply reiterated an old goal: Keep older instances relevant to allow for more choice in instance for a long time. Instances like Kalin Shrine, Necropolis of Mirrors or Forsaken Abbey are community favourites that sadly now fall through the net; while newer instance have the expectation of always being more difficult than the last one, this creates a subset of the community unable to run the new instances while their comfort ones are slowly becoming less and less relevant. These players eventually see no more progress while their fun gradually declines, which isn't good.

    Especially High-End-Guilds requested a system like this to keep more instances relevant in the endgame - with a reward system that builds on top of the old one, we guarantee that even lower tier runs keep their value when one is not powerful enough for higher modes.
    With the implementation of the next instance (soon ;)) we're already going to be increasing loot significantly with another level, allowing you to comfortably reach a higher rune tier quicker than now. We do not intend for anyone to reach a high tier of rune at the moment without significant grind - the option is there for those motivated enough though and there is still (as we're only almost 22 hours into the system) a significant portion of the depths to be discovered.


    Additionally, hints about the Impetus recipes lie within their name; it's not very likely you'll obtain the Impetus of the Ocean in the Origin ;)

    Hooroo,
    Brontes

  • Brontes

    Changed the title of the thread from “Awakened Levels [Patch 12.1.3.1002]” to “Awakened Levels [Patch 12.1.3.1000]”.
  • Mit der Freischaltung der nächsten Instanz (welche in kurzer Zeit folgen wird ;) ) werden wir auch den nächsten Schwierigkeitsgrad hinzufügen, welcher den Loot enorm anheben wird. Dies wird mit so ziemlich jedem Content-Release von nun an passieren: Es ist nicht vorgesehen, in dieser kurzen Zeit hochrangige Runen zu erspielen, sondern mit den voranschreitenden Modis höhere Runen erreichen zu können, vor allem nicht erst 22 stunden nach dem Release, wenn noch einiges zu finden ist.

    Selbst wenn ihr den Loot vertausendfacht (in Zahlen: 1000x), was mit an Sicherheit angrenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit nicht vor 2050 passieren wird, ist es immer noch unrealistisch auch nur eine Rune auf Stufe X (in Zahlen: Stufe 10) zu farmen. Vor allem für Leute die arbeitstätig sind und dann nur vielleicht 2 Stunden am Abend mit der Gilde was laufen können

  • My two cents concerning the new Awakened+.


    First of all, I really like the idea of additional difficulty levels with meaningful rewards. Moreover making all the awakened materials more desirable (and sellable) is a much-needed boost to the dwindling economy we have in this game right now because of Grove – where loot is basically worthless and even gold pull prices are plummeting constantly. Even if that means running old content we've done countless times before over and over again.


    That being said, I dislike endless grind systems greatly. They always remind me of those Asian grinding games.

    Most players I spoke to prefer to finish their gear at some point in time, and I am no exception to that. As Lutine said, the new rune system in its current form requires a ridiculous amount of materials to reach a level 10 Rune. Upgrading a rune – as with every other rune in the game – requires five runes of the previous tier. That means a level 10 rune requires 5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5 = 1.953.125 splinters. Which is absolutely insane, no matter how much loot is buffed in the future. Keep in mind, that's for one rune. You need two of them at least, and I suspect even more, since Kawak seems to introduce combination runes that have both a defensive and offensive attribute. My guess is you need to combine two of the base runes to get them, which would mean even more grinding.

    This is a prospect that's quite demotivating for me. Generally speaking, I don't understand why you persist in introducing endless grinds, after the initial Tithing system wasn't exactly well received to begin with. I just don't think this type of system belongs in CoA. I would much prefer if you toned it down to the same level Tithing is at after the patch – which is still grindy but perfectly reasonable.


    Regarding Awakened+ itself, I think the scaling itself should be adjusted. Right now, lower instances get boosted quite a bit, whereas in higher-level instances like Grafu you don't even notice whether it's base Awakened mode or Awakened+ max difficulty. This also pertains to the amount of Tithing exp you get. It's rather strange that Abbey gives more than Grafu.

  • Hi, I would like to also give some Feedback to the new system. As someone that also enjoyed Asia grinder and is very bored of low amount of runs, low amount of random runs etc I really like the approach that now is made with Awakened Instances.
    Also if I understand it correctly the new rune system isn't meant to be main content but content to do while we wait for new content to release, so it's fine for me that it will take longer to complete.

    I also like the approach of fixing the Thing system that was horrible at release, the new % modifiers from awakens mode and the ability to buy the greater Thithing amulets for Arcadia coins for me fixed the problems from the past by 100%.


    But I also need to agree with Lutine and Serenadae, the amount of runes needed is a bit overturned as it was with Thithing until now.


    A grind system like Asia grinders is good and fine for me but it should not be impossible to reach.

    Therefore I would suggest to rework the way runes get upgraded to make it more possible ( highest tier runes should not take more than a year to reach.) I mean since people wouldn't just build 1 rune but instead many and also would like to build the new combination runes which are combinations of current runes, I Think it would be better to nerf the amount of runes needed to reach the next tier from 5 -> 2.


    Since 1.9million for 1tier X is rly to much.


    Also a concern in this matter is the mats from the crafting like Wood,plants etc since those don't get higher loot amount inside nostalgia which makes it very hard to gain the amount needed.

    Since 1.9million of purple mats I doubt ever even existed on the server at all. I mean players already struggled a lot with the bridge event which I was told was way less materials needed than the new system.

    • Official Post

    Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

    We completely agree that 1.9million splinters is far too many to create a tier X rune at this time; that being said, while it may look like entirely too much grind to reach a high level now, I can assure you that we will, as higher modes are being introduced, also introduce better ways of obtaining runes (including, but not limited to: rune recipes starting at a higher tier, requiring different materials, outright dropping some runes of a higher tier).

    These plans may not have been communicated clear enough before and I'd like to thank you for voicing your issues in such a constructive way!


    Currently, we've calculated that you're able to reach Tier III combination runes in a reasonable timeframe, even with limited time.

    We seek to make it feasible to reach Tier V combination runes by the end of the year in all slots; from then on, as we don't know how the communities power evolves (whether that be average skill changing or new gear pieces providing leaps and bounds more power than anticipated now) and cannot make a judgement call on how fast this will accelerate.

    For this reason we've deliberately chosen to not provide a significant boost to rune tiers right before the Kawak release, with which both a boost (that should make it feasible to reach Tier IV combo runes) and new upgrades await you, as to not already power creep an unreleased instance.

    Regarding Awakened+ itself, I think the scaling itself should be adjusted. Right now, lower instances get boosted quite a bit, whereas in higher-level instances like Grafu you don't even notice whether it's base Awakened mode or Awakened+ max difficulty. This also pertains to the amount of Tithing exp you get. It's rather strange that Abbey gives more than Grafu.

    We appreciate any feedback on the balance of the system; within the next week we'll still do balance updates on the modes itself, so any data point is extremely valuable. We've already noted that we've overshot Abbys power by a little and will likely reduce it a bit, while upping the tithing in Grafu.

    Moreover, we've also reduced the power of many instant-hits in lower Instances (HoTo/IDK especially) or turned deadly hits into casts which should make your lives less random-oneshotty with the next patch :thumbup:


    Hooroo,
    Brontes

  • We seek to make it feasible to reach Tier V combination runes by the end of the year in all slots;

    this still sounds like a system, where you give players the "opportunity" to upgrade things further (example from 5 -> 6 or even ->) but in reality it will be massively demotivating, because there is a carrot in front of you, that you will never ever be able to reach. this leads, at least for myself, to the point and feeling of FOMO if you don't grind 24/7.

    And because the time of humans is limited and worth much, I expect players just quitting. Because the direction (tithing, runes, xyz) is clear, that more and more endless grind systems will be implemented.


    Greetings

    • Official Post

    We seek to make it feasible to reach Tier V combination runes by the end of the year in all slots;

    this still sounds like a system, where you give players the "opportunity" to upgrade things further (example from 5 -> 6 or even ->)

    Feasible in this context refers to a limited time frame, as you mentioned. People with more time and runs will obviously have the opportunity to reach higher levels, that's the nature of MMORPGs. However, the steps between the rune tiers are held relatively small for that reason, as to not overwhelm players with limited time. We do not want to limit players with willingness of high-time investment either. It's a compromise on both ends.;)

  • this still sounds like a system, where you give players the "opportunity" to upgrade things further (example from 5 -> 6 or even ->)

    Feasible in this context refers to a limited time frame, as you mentioned. People with more time and runs will obviously have the opportunity to reach higher levels, that's the nature of MMORPGs. However, the steps between the rune tiers are held relatively small for that reason, as to not overwhelm players with limited time. We do not want to limit players with willingness of high-time investment either. It's a compromise on both ends.;)

    you know, that 2 runes with tier 5 and 2 runes with tier 7 makes a HUGE difference when it comes to damage? that is even more than 1 tier of a weapon for some classes. and the difference will be even bigger with more tier differences. also not calculating tithing multiplicator.

    sorry, but the nature of mmorpgs shouldnt be FOMO in itself and bringing systems that implemented even more FOMO factors

  • When I was playing the vanilla game around Level 60, it was so demotivating to see those Raid X runes in IP and CP that you could never reach as a mortal, while running around with like t5 runes or so, so please delete all runes above tier 5, so it doesn't demotivate us again... /s

  • Feasible in this context refers to a limited time frame, as you mentioned. People with more time and runs will obviously have the opportunity to reach higher levels, that's the nature of MMORPGs. However, the steps between the rune tiers are held relatively small for that reason, as to not overwhelm players with limited time. We do not want to limit players with willingness of high-time investment either. It's a compromise on both ends.;)

    you know, that 2 runes with tier 5 and 2 runes with tier 7 makes a HUGE difference when it comes to damage? that is even more than 1 tier of a weapon for some classes. and the difference will be even bigger with more tier differences. also not calculating tithing multiplicator.

    sorry, but the nature of mmorpgs shouldnt be FOMO in itself and bringing systems that implemented even more FOMO factors

    I understand your point , altho i doubt there is any mmo currently that doesnt have systems that can give people FOMO, but since the fear of missing out is only something mentaly happening in the players head and not something that really happens, its more tied to the own mindset and not the game itself that introduces new systems. I mean you could also point out that it gives other players fomo if someone in guild builds for example full t17 because he can while others can only build t14, having no fomo system at all would mean there would be the need of only systems that can all be reached f2p so there wont be any dmg differences coming from gear so that skill is the only thing that matters. Therefore i doubt this will ever be happening on a f2p mmo, even other mmos that are p2p have fomo at some point once your goal is ranking it automatically happens i guess.

  • When I was playing the vanilla game around Level 60, it was so demotivating to see those Raid X runes in IP and CP that you could never reach as a mortal, while running around with like t5 runes or so, so please delete all runes above tier 5, so it doesn't demotivate us again... /s

    Don't you think there's a difference between base game items that were there from the very beginning and the introduction of new, "endless" game mechanics into an already long established game?


    Most players these days want to be finished with their gear and the content at some point. Not everyone is fond of Asian-MMO-Style grinding.

  • Don't you think there's a difference between base game items that were there from the very beginning and the introduction of new, "endless" game mechanics into an already long established game?

    Tyrant runes were introduced much later and higher tiers were still out of reach for years... it's basically the same, I find it hillarious how you guys can be upset about infinite grind, which is not even FOMO at all, but the very opposite :D Just appreciate the fact that there is finally some content that isn't cleared within 2 weeks after release ^^


    I think in the long run there will be like 2 tiers that are most common (probably t5/6 or so), maybe 2-3 no-lifer players that have spent insane amounts of time and have another tier higher runes (not llooking at someone specific). Back in the vanilla game around lvl 70, most endgame players had like t8 weapon runes iirc, just because you had to spend insane amounts of gold/dias for the next tier. It's basically the same now, just the ceiling is way higher, but who cares...


    If you rlly have a problem with a carrot 2 light-years above your head, let them delete t8+ runes from the game for now, so we can cry for them in 2030 again :D

  • Don't you think there's a difference between base game items that were there from the very beginning and the introduction of new, "endless" game mechanics into an already long established game?

    Tyrant runes were introduced much later and higher tiers were still out of reach for years... it's basically the same

    Yet they eventually were made accessible via the Item Shop or Tempest Height, respectively.


    Look, I get that you are Team Asian-Grinder, and that's perfectly fine in my book. But let's have a Gentleman's Disagreement here instead of trying to devalue each other's position.

  • The more important question currently is if crafting mats like plants, wood and stone will get better rates, since thats the biggest issue currently in my PoV. Everything else for now seems fine ( t4/5 ) but those mats cant be farmed in nostalgia and did not receive any update. So the only issue rn in my PoV is even if we can grind and gain more loot now in awakend we cant craft runes frequently cuz we will miss on those plant/ore/wood mats.


    For higher tiers i think game designers learned out of their mistakes in the past ( looking at thithing ,- which seems to be fixed now ) and wont dissapoint us ( at least i hope so ).

    • Official Post

    Please keep these discussions civil. There's no point in tribalism or fighting here.



    The more important question currently is if crafting mats like plants, wood and stone will get better rates, since thats the biggest issue currently in my PoV.

    Should gathering materials from Sinbi become a significant roadblock, we will definitely intervene to reduce the pressure on the players; for that however, we will need to look at how markets, gathering and other sources of these materials develop as to not significantly miss the target due to lack of data. We have multiple contingency plans in place should we not see the goals laid out being fulfilled.

    Thanks to everyone for their time in writing feedback.

    Hooroo,
    Brontes.

  • Tyrant runes were introduced much later and higher tiers were still out of reach for years... it's basically the same

    Yet they eventually were made accessible via the Item Shop or Tempest Height, respectively.


    Look, I get that you are Team Asian-Grinder, and that's perfectly fine in my book. But let's have a Gentleman's Disagreement here instead of trying to devalue each other's position.

    I respect your opinion, but fomo is basically the fear of missing out (time-gated) content or just while you are working / afk and can't access content for progress. But artefact rune tiers seems (at the moment) to be a veeery long lasting process that you have to spend a lot of time in (if you wanna reach higher tiers), so it doesn't matter if you invest the time now or later, at some point you reach a soft cap (probably t5-6) and won't get higher for a loooong time. How is this fomo? Zodiacs are more fomo than this, but even those are returning every few months..

  • Yet they eventually were made accessible via the Item Shop or Tempest Height, respectively.


    Look, I get that you are Team Asian-Grinder, and that's perfectly fine in my book. But let's have a Gentleman's Disagreement here instead of trying to devalue each other's position.

    I respect your opinion, but fomo is basically the fear of missing out (time-gated) content or just while you are working / afk and can't access content for progress. But artefact rune tiers seems (at the moment) to be a veeery long lasting process that you have to spend a lot of time in (if you wanna reach higher tiers), so it doesn't matter if you invest the time now or later, at some point you reach a soft cap (probably t5-6) and won't get higher for a loooong time. How is this fomo? Zodiacs are more fomo than this, but even those are returning every few months..

    Sure, but I never wrote anything about FOMO.
    I simply dislike the fact that you don't have a clear goal that you are working towards, after which you are done. I'm not a fan of Black Desert-esque soft caps.

    • Official Post

    I simply dislike the fact that you don't have a clear goal that you are working towards, after which you are done. I'm not a fan of Black Desert-esque soft caps.

    Noted. Thank you for voicing this feedback as clearly. Should we some day plan to have another, similar grind (which we are not, as runes are a long, long term project), we will look into releasing the steps not all at once, but rather when the time for yet another update comes.

  • I simply dislike the fact that you don't have a clear goal that you are working towards, after which you are done. I'm not a fan of Black Desert-esque soft caps.

    Noted. Thank you for voicing this feedback as clearly. Should we some day plan to have another, similar grind (which we are not, as runes are a long, long term project), we will look into releasing the steps not all at once, but rather when the time for yet another update comes.

    Thank you!

    Appreciate your willingness to engage with feedback and the explanation of your thought process.


    I really like the rest of the Awakened+ system and don't want my criticism to overshadow that.

  • Elo,


    we ran some hoto and Kalin recently and maybe u should have a look at:


    1. (Hoto) Double Backstab from Assassins, it randomly oneshots players with 5kk hits,

    2. (Hoto) Crush Injury DoT from Teeth of the Reef b2 deals 23kk per second...


    Everything else seems to be quite fine in hoto :)

    In Kalin it seems to be alright as well, just the adds of Locatha die oneshot to my Soulcrusher. Compared to IDK or even Hoto, Kalin feels very underpowered, you can easily run it with 3-4 ppl and almost no CC 😱 But it's still a lot of fun, much appreciated content <3