Knight Class [Feedback]

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    This is a feedback thread dedicated to the Knight class.


    We want to hear your opinions and suggestions regarding this particular class, including any changes you would like to see.


    Please keep all corresponding rules in mind when clicking the reply button. "+1", "-1", "yes", "no", bump posts, and anything similar are not acceptable posts. Do not leave posts that state your agreement/disagreement without providing an explanation or critique.


    It is important to note that this is a beta stage of class balancing and testing on the live server. You can expect changes based on our observations and feedback provided from the community over the next few months.

  • Moderator

    Approved the thread.

    Hello,


    Regarding Knight/Mage...

    Is there any plan to make Knight/Mage viable as a magical dps class?

    I mean most skills are doing magical dmg. Seeing this class as a close combat dps combo with possibility to be used as (in this case physical) tank like champ/bard or knight/warlock would be nice.

    From the existing skills it has the same potential as a Warrior/Mage for example. Having the most dmg in white Hits is nothing new. The class just needs some more dmg dealing skills and Buffs.

    Maybe even make it like Scout/Mage with all skills in magical and physical form?

    Please consider.


    Greetings

    K/Wl : maybe need extra dmg or something when using plate gear.

    in my opinion parry rate will be calculated to increase dmg rate as well as more atk speed (need 19% more - because this is atk speed ratio when using chain gear gold)

    Indeed, using plate gear will be more efficient. and will be fairer than chain gear.

    Quote from yali61

    knight/scout need rework to much useless.

    if you lookıng game no one can play thıs class

    please what? What you need to "play it"? :D

    It's the knight class with the most single aggro and even AOE aggro is very high because of second hatred rune.

    The class has nothing special for the group yes, but it's one of the stronger knight classes in general :D

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from yali61

    knight/scout need rework to much useless.

    if you lookıng game no one can play thıs class

    please what? What you need to "play it"? :D

    It's the knight class with the most single aggro and even AOE aggro is very high because of second hatred rune.

    The class has nothing special for the group yes, but it's one of the stronger knight classes in general :D

    but no one can play xD and i sayed to much useles

    Quote from yali61
    Quote from xLutinex

    please what? What you need to "play it"? :D

    It's the knight class with the most single aggro and even AOE aggro is very high because of second hatred rune.

    The class has nothing special for the group yes, but it's one of the stronger knight classes in general :D

    but no one can play xD and i sayed to much useles

    The class isn't very difficult, the only difference to other knights is your ground target aoe and your insanely ranged holy strike. How can't ppl play it? Haven't seen anyone else complaining yet at all :huh:


    Maybe some explanation - I played it for a while before changing to cloth tank:

    • Lv 15 elite is a single pull / taunt,
    • Lv 20 makes holy strike ranged,
    • lv 25 is kinda useless unless you need some specific CC,
    • lv 30 is the mentioned ground target that is equal to a whirlwind shield iirc,
    • lv 35 even makes your wrist attack more useful to survive certain attacks,
    • lv 40 heals you by a little,
    • lv 45 is a really useful raid shield,
    • lv 50 is a self-cleanse against stuns etc,
    • lv 60 makes the chains less useless (but this mechanic is only useful in pvp I guess) and
    • lv 70 makes your blood arrow work differently, which is much better than costing hp every second.


    So you got insane aggro on single target and aoe, another 10s cd ranged ground target aggro aoe (just writing this speaks for itself) and even got a decent damage mitigation for the entire raid every 2 minutes. What is useless there? Compared to other tanks it's even too strong :P


    And...

    Quote from Flu

    Regarding Knight/Mage...

    Is there any plan to make Knight/Mage viable as a magical dps class?

    K/M is really strong in cloth tank gear, it even deals decent damage compared with other tanks. Not even Champ/Priest or Warden/Warrior deal such damage (as tanks). However, I doubt there is a need for another Warmage-like class, esp if you look back into the past when K/M actually was a dps on coa, which was horrible =O I still got ptsd from our full K/M hos raids back then :pinch:

    I wouldn't mind turning k/m into a dps combo as well. They could do something to differentiate it from w/m, perhaps have the main stats be stamina + strength (or int?)

    Something like retribution paladins would be nice

    • Official Post
    Quote from anbubg
    Quote from kunxu

    K/Wl : maybe need extra dmg or something when using plate gear.

    in my opinion parry rate will be calculated to increase dmg rate as well as more atk speed (need 19% more - because this is atk speed ratio when using chain gear gold)

    Indeed, using plate gear will be more efficient. and will be fairer than chain gear.

    Using plate items would render the level 20 elite skill (+18% defence to chain items) useless. The devs should really think about which type of armours is best suited for this combo and then change either the bonus from parry rate or the level 20 elite skill.


    Quote from kunxu

    K/Wl : maybe need extra dmg or something when using plate gear.

    in my opinion parry rate will be calculated to increase dmg rate as well as more atk speed (need 19% more - because this is atk speed ratio when using chain gear gold)

    Indeed, using plate gear will be more efficient. and will be fairer than chain gear.

    Our intention was not to make plate superior to chain for this class in terms of damage. Class may or not be weak with either of equipment type, we do not plan to make neither of them be significantly superior to other one, but further improvements for overall of class might be implemented.


    Less known DPS classes will be reviewed soon such as this one to make them more viable with pure DPS gear rather than being an off DPS with some peculiar equipment without touching its off DPS side as much as we could.


    Quote from yali61

    and maybe the radius of the area abilities can be increased.


    some classes reached a radius of 100 while we only reached 75.

    We do not plan to change this.


    Greetings

    Suggestion for Knight/Rogue:


    Change level 40 elite, that you will get 2 separate buffs. 1 for the dodge and 1 for the dmg absorb. right now if you use it in large groups, it happens that the buff will instant be removed, bcs 3 mobs hitted and dmg was absorbed :D

    Regarding Knight/Rogue:


    Byte can you clarify the aggro multiplier on the level 15 elite. Description says that the offhand hits will have high aggro generation, but my tests says an aggro multiplier between 1 - 1.2 ? :O


    Greetings

    Rework of:

    Knight/Warrior

    Knight/Champion

    Knight/Druid

    Knight/Scout - it doesnt need rework but..tbh all of us pick it just to wear bow?


    With druid there is like almost extra 17% stamina.. for what tbh? Its almost as much % as K/Ch o.o


    Also elite for damage % - with warrior we already have bonus to all weapons while champ only for hammers.


    The only thing I see about all the classes is - each one must perform in any role and this is completely wrong way.


    Tank is tank - with plate armor not chain or clothes or leather (or just skins on) and not a typical dps as players want.


    Okay you can do it - why not if its possible, but still - main role of tank is to take thunders and keep enemy focussed on you.


    Yes, this is the only case where should be a combo that outperforms the rest of Knight/xxxxx and in general I mean knight/warrior. As this combo is almost forgotten (useless) because it doesn’t posses any support skills (lol?)




    Knight in general don't have %dmg for weapons. That's why knight/warrior have -> more aggro. It also have a better whirlwind shield and more defensive skills.

    Also a little support in single target for all incoming dmg on target and if I remember correctly boosting light dmg on single target.


    Knight/Champ is nearly like /warrior but restricted to hammer. But it has an insane crowd control mechanics


    Knight/druid: yes ~17% stamina. Why not? :D I like. It has good shield mechanics depending on your maximum HP (so 17% stamina is good for it) and can buff all members close to the Tank with 5% patk/matk, which is good for higher instances, but kinda useless in lower ones

  • Moderator

    Changed the title of the thread from “Feedback on the Knight Class” to “Feedbacks on the Knight Class”.
    • Official Post


    Greetings,


    Thank you for your feedback.


    The idea behind the base designs of these tank combos is to have them viable at base level at all content (meaning that it is theoretically possible to conquer the game with one class combination) but that different situations are more or less challengening, depending on class choice. This also includes Warden tanks.


    Hooroo,

    Brontes.

  • Moderator

    Changed the title of the thread from “Feedbacks on the Knight Class” to “Knight Class [Feedback]”.

    In fact, I guess what they want to say is as follows: Think of a Tank that does not contribute to the Raid and want to play.

    • We used to play K/M before. Why?
    • Now, from what I've seen in the runs, usually the tank selections are K/D

    Do you think, or do we think, that it would be good if the elections were more numerous?

    For example, I usually play K/Chr for IDK, so more stun means less risk of death for Party.

    In generalisation, the reason and reason arise from the difference in the point of view of each player.

    Here, it makes sense to me to turn towards development in common thought, not personal or personal thought.

    Personally, I don't play K/S and I don't think I ever will. Every time I hit a holy strike, HP will go away and proportionally DC doesn't make much sense.

    As far as I can see, there are players who claim to be good, but at the moment I haven't seen a player in this class and I haven't seen one before. Why ?


    Greetings

    Quote from Zeus

    As far as I can see, there are players who claim to be good, but at the moment I haven't seen a player in this class and I haven't seen one before. Why ?

    I played K/S in DC. For me it's the knight with the easiest aggro and easiest range aggro (if someone accidentally pull or tank want to pull at range). But besides this, it has nothing special for me! As long as the aggro is not a problem, I prefer K/D for DC (but only for DC) bcs it has nice shield mechanics to make it easier for healers and buffing a little bit the raid.

    In all other instances I wouldn't play K/D, bcs the raidbuff would be kinda useless.

    I would also prefer K/R for DC, but only if the dodge buff wouldn't disappear instantly bcs you absorb the non dodgeable hits :D

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Zeus

    As far as I can see, there are players who claim to be good, but at the moment I haven't seen a player in this class and I haven't seen one before. Why ?

    I played K/S in DC. For me it's the knight with the easiest aggro and easiest range aggro (if someone accidentally pull or tank want to pull at range). But besides this, it has nothing special for me! As long as the aggro is not a problem, I prefer K/D for DC (but only for DC) bcs it has nice shield mechanics to make it easier for healers and buffing a little bit the raid.

    In all other instances I wouldn't play K/D, bcs the raidbuff would be kinda useless.

    I would also prefer K/R for DC, but only if the dodge buff wouldn't disappear instantly bcs you absorb the non dodgeable hits :D

    my idea is to offer more useful and useful class combinations and my ideas for its development.The classes I can play as a tank are limited when there are so many options and When I think like that, I realise something's wrong.

    I think the Developers might realise this and give some thought to the need for editing.


    cooperation for a better world :D

    Quote from Zeus

    Now, from what I've seen in the runs, usually the tank selections are K/D

    Yes, but unfortunately most K/D I see in random runs (outside DC) either can't hold aggro properly because K/D's overall aggro is worse than most other knights, or they can't keep Holy Flank running properly. And if a player can't do both, why playing K/D at all? However, if a player can play K/D properly, it should be one of the best choices for DC for sure.

    Quote from Zeus

    As far as I can see, there are players who claim to be good, but at the moment I haven't seen a player in this class and I haven't seen one before. Why ?

    Our tanks in my former guild and my current one play(ed) K/S very often, especially in DC and the blood arrow never was an issue, iirc you don't even need it to run permanently, you can toggle it on and off. But yes I agree, in random runs you see almost nobody tank with it, everyone only K/D without aggro or without up-time on holy flank :pinch:


    But K/S is a perfect beginner class for knights imo (decent aggro, huge range, even some basic utility and CC) and after mastering tanking with it, ppl could move on to K/D which deals less aggro but has better support if played properly. You see this behavior at many other tank classes: The more aggro / easier gameplay, the less support you will have on board. Example: Even K/M is viable, but has almost no useful support for the raid - but it's aggro is really good and it's easy to play through tons of aoe hits --> fast Threaten stacking and misses are not fatal for melees

    I know which class and which skills do what and what they do, but it does not satisfy me that it only produces good agroo in line with the purpose of use. Maybe it may not be a problem in your guild, but if you had specified how many Heal players behind you, you could have given more detailed information.


    As I said, there are players who like it personally, but here I want to share my opinion for the better. I also don't believe that B/K, WRD/K, K/B can still do a proper job.

    Quote from Zeus

    how many Heal players behind you, you could have given more detailed information.

    Normally we had 2 heals, one on a major heal class, the other one on a more supportive one like wl/p, wd/p or wl/d, d/b, ... Do you run with only 1 d/p or what? =O


    So you want K/S additionally have better support? In what way? Keep in mind that all knights got old K/M debuff in threaten, so a little more utility on a strong aggro one could make the K/S the next overused knight =O


    Or do you want more knight be silimar to K/D utility? From my perspective there is no reason to break the current knights design, which works just fine to me :/ Don't get me wrong, I just want to know in which way you want to change something :*

    Quote from Zeus

    As I said, there are players who like it personally, but here I want to share my opinion for the better. I also don't believe that B/K, WRD/K, K/B can still do a proper job.

    I've seen Wd/K in IDK and it did quite well, if I'm not wrong, our tanks already played his in DC which was working too. But no idea about what the class does in detail, haven't looked into this as much :whistling:

    There is also a question about how parry rate is calculated because its I dont know.. it seems quite buggy?


    How does it apply to normal non critical hits from higher level enemies and lower ones.

    Some regular mobs and elites deal normal noncritical damage ignoring parry rate?

    Quote from ZaciukamCie

    There is also a question about how parry rate is calculated because its I dont know.. it seems quite buggy?


    How does it apply to normal non critical hits from higher level enemies and lower ones.

    Some regular mobs and elites deal normal noncritical damage ignoring parry rate?

    Parry has nothing to do with Crit. Parry is just an additional 40% damage reduction by %chance. The more absolute parry points you get, the less %chance is increased (exponential approximation to 95% or so, don't ask me about the correct mathematical expression ^^), just like crit rate. Only exception is the warden class that gets more damage reduction by parry passively iirc, but the approximation is always the same, no matter which class

    Thats correct, it has nothing to do with crits.

    In general I meant K/W parry elite 100% which modify only the % of parry chance not value itself ;?


    BTW. Because I actually forgot to mention this. I've performed a check within the files and ...
    There still is one unused value within the game and one shield in entire game have this value.

    Shield name is Lion-Face Round Shield and there is some tricky value named Shield Block.
    Question if for what it may stand in Arcadia.
    This actually can be something nice ;? I don't remember what does it - someone explained it once in old RoM forum but its gone ;p