Hi, I wanted to share my thoughts on the current meta for Rogues and Bards (excluding Scouts since I don't play them).
QuoteNote: This is based on my experience running Orkham and Grafu.
Rogues Before Perfect Slice Changes
Before the changes to Perfect Slice, Rogues were generally underperforming. Here's a quick overview of their previous roles:
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R/Wl: Good single-target sustain (with max-focus daggers).
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R/S, R/Wd, R/D: Decent AoE sustain.
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R/Ch: Decent and fast burst damage.
Bards:
Bards were (and still are) mostly strong in burst damage every 3 minutes:
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B/Ch, B/R, and B/S are all solid burst classes.
In terms of sustain, I was often outclassed by Mages and Warlocks. And when we speak about burst chains had the upper hand.
After the Perfect Slice Change (Single → AoE)
Since Perfect Slice changed from a single-target skill to AoE, Rogues that can use it have become sustain monsters—but in a way that feels a bit boring to me. Here's why:
In slow-paced sustain parties, I now play Rogue with maximum stats to boost bleed damage. In these runs, 60% of my total damage comes from Perfect Slice + its bleed effect. This applies to all katana-based Rogue builds, like:
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R/S
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R/Wd
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R/P
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R/D
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R/K (which is performing decently now as both damage and support)
R/B
The problem is that Rogues feel like they've lost their unique identity. Previously:
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R/Warr and R/Dr were the bleed/sustain specialists.
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Now they’re among the weakest.
Current AoE Rogue Tier List (based on bleed sustain):
R/S >= R/Wd >> R/P > R/D > R/W > R/K > R/Ch
Stat breakdown examples:
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R/S: 41% + 27% PAT from weapons, 16% + 41% P.DMG from passives. Easily the best sustain Rogue with top stats and fast skills.
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R/Wd: 41% PAT (katana), +18% passive, +10% (1 GCD), 18.2% (1 GCD), 11.5% passive, 20% (1 GCD P.DMG). Second-best sustain Rogue with only 2 GCDs to reach peak stats.
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R/P: 41% PAT (katana), 30% passive, up to 20% stackable P.DMG. Solid build due to extra bleeds from passives and the ability to instantly stack 15 bleeds with Perfect Slice.
The rest feel like weaker copies of the same strategy—doing at least two Perfect Slices + AoE spam.
My Issue with the Current Meta
Don’t get me wrong—I like the Perfect Slice mechanic itself. But it's boring that all Rogue specs are now forced into AoE bleed builds to be viable. It’s like every class merged into one.
Suggestion: Each Rogue spec could have its own unique interaction with Perfect Slice. For example:
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R/S could trigger a Shot from substitute.
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R/Wd could summon an Oak Walker that does Charged Chop, etc.
Non-Katana Rogues
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R/Wl: This class could be good, but it has an issue when used with a katana. The max Focus from katanas is much lower than with dual daggers. Also, each hit of Perfect Slice reduces Focus by 2% per target. So hitting 10 mobs = -20% Focus. I’m not sure if this is intended, but I’m okay with R/Wl staying a single-target, dagger-based build.
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R/Warr: This class is no longer what it used to be. It used to be the AoE bleed king, but now it's just a mess—offhand reliant, mediocre bleeds, average everything, and bad stat scaling.
| Rogue Spec | AoE Sustain Tier | Key Stats & Mechanics | Strengths | Weaknesses |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| R/S (Rogue/Scout) | ⭐ Top Tier | 41% + 27% PAT (weapons) 16% + 41% P.DMG (passives) | Highest sustain, fast skills, best stats, Strong bleed burst | Generic AoE spam; no burst |
| R/Wd (Rogue/Warden) | ⭐ Top Tier | 41% PAT (katana) +18% passive PAT +10%/18.2%/20% P.DMG from GCDs | Second strongest; hits peak power in 2 GCDs | Lacks uniqueness |
| R/P (Rogue/Priest) | ✅ High Tier | 41% PAT (katana) 30% passive P.DMG Up to 20% stackable P.DMG | Extra bleeds from passives, fast stacking | Lower pathing, less raw scaling. |
| R/B (Rogue/Bard) | ⚠️ Mid Tier | 41% PAT (katana) +10% PAT (passive) +10% Attack Speed | Solid base stats extra AS, extra 30%dmg buff every 30s | Hard to fit Perfect Slice due to channel spam |
| R/D (Rogue/Druid) | ⚠️ Mid Tier | 41% PAT (katana)- 10%passive PAT - 30% passive DMG | Versatile; still decent. Has posison buff and extra hit that works for PS every 30s | Outclassed in stats and bleed potential |
| R/K (Rogue/Knight) | ⚠️ Mid-Low Tier | Hybrid support/DPS | Adds support to parties | Lower damage ceiling |
| R/M (Rogue/Mage) | ❌ Low Tier | 41% PAT (katana) bonus fire dmg | Technically usable | No bonus PAT = weak bleeds |
| R/W (Rogue/Warrior) | ❌ Low Tier | Used to be top bleed spec | Some AoE utility remains | Lost identity; poor stat synergy |
| R/Ch (Rogue/Champion) | ❌ Low Tier | AoE burst reliant on Forge | Thematic burst build | Weak AoE burst currently |
| R/Wl (Rogue/Warlock) | ✅ Special Case | Designed for dual daggers Focus loss on AoE hits | Great single-target with daggers | Poor AoE with katana; not meta-compatible |
Burst Classes
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R/Ch: Supposed to be the burst Rogue, but its AoE burst is currently too weak, relying heavily on Dwarven Forge.
R/M: This class has a good burst potential used with dmg% daggers
Bards (in general):
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Good burst when they have access to Incredible Rift.
| Class | Single Burst | AoE Burst | Single Sustain | AoE Sustain |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| B/Ch | Good | Good | Bad | Bad |
| B/R | Great | Decent | Bad | Terrible |
| B/S | Great | Great | Bad | Terrible |
Conclusion
In fast-paced parties, I often feel useless or outclassed by burst classes—especially if I can’t land two Perfect Slices and let the DoT tick twice.
In slow parties, Rogues are still viable if you have enough stats.
P.S.: These are just my personal observations based on the parties I’ve joined in the past few months, let me know if you need any info about my setup or parties or anything you need and feel free to share your opinions if they differ from mine.
