Reworked Monster Cards [Patch 10.4.1.1000]

    I find it weird that you chose to go with 3 whole decks of cards, rather than sticking with just 1 deck of cards but 3 different deck layers. Let me explain (if this has been suggested before, sorry, just consider this post a +1 xD):


    Basically you allow the players to put all the 12 stats on the cards (11 normal stats + the bonus all attributes stat) but force them to only choose 4 stats per deck layer.


    Implementation shouldn't be that difficult, because each deck layer will be just a simple filter where players can filter which 4 stats they want to have in that layer...


    It's still a horrible, expensive solution (unless you make it less expensive & less rng based) but at the very least, people won't have to farm ridiculous amount of cards. You do realize that these cards don't drop easily, right? By the time most people manage to farm just one full deck, they will be grey and in their 80s!


    Not exactly the legacy most people want to leave behind...

    But then they will need a whole new system to upgrade cards since stones are designed for 4 stats, not 12 :D That's scary xD


    For me just give 3 decks. Make second and third to be rented if you want some diamonds and all cards from first deck (with base atribute, not upgraded or make them clean-empty cards) will go to those new decks. There we can upgrade for second and third class. Stones would be the same as we have now and we don't need to farm the 2500 cards again and again. It's pretty simple tbh, I don't understand why not do it.

    Also, some thoughts after reading and testing all the changes from my end:


    -> The system as it is is great. Having less stones is awesome and the way you upgrade is cool. And it is content to do. So a big thank you for that!


    Onto the more frustrating parts:


    -> To maximize cards you will need a lot of those "Breakthrough" Stones. And i am talking like around 30-open end for a general card (which most of the new cards in the game are). I got those from my personal green shop actually (despite it being an orange stone) and if it is intended to get them from your green shop every day that is perfect. However i suggest to make the stone give a lot more points to the attributes. For example something like 0.5 to every secondary and 0.3 to every main attribute on a card.


    -> Another very big issue i see is that there are very good ways to farm for green and blue dust but it is very frustrating to farm purple and orange dust. If "Breakthrough" stones are aquired by your green shop, the purple items you need for upgrading should be made available in your blue shopevery day. Or you rethink the whole dust currency and make it only one type of dust or something.


    Tldr:

    System: rly cool!

    Breakthrough stones: need a buff!

    Currency farming: needs to be buffed/adjusted!


    ~kind regards Noodlez

    And how you want to realize multi gear ppl with this system? Like madox said, it is a joke to farm all cards multiple times (and impossible for some cards)

    Let me sum up my ideas and suggestions for you:


    1) Make it possible to use a card in all 3 decks. -> Possibility to use old cards and new cards alike without making new cards on every class.


    2) Make the process of upgrading less frustrating by giving a huge buff to the Breakthrough stones. -> The way upgrading works in the current system has less rng than before. By buffing the Breakthrough stones the cost and frustration for pushing the cards to maximum value is is lifted by quite a bit.


    3) Rethink/adjust the currencies. Purple and orange dust is a lot harder to come by than green and blue. If all currencies are farmable like green/blue dust or tstones it will become just another thing to do ingame.


    -> With enough changes like these it should be very doable even for multiple classes.


    -->> Rng rly got reduced. I dont think there will ever be a system whithout rng entirely. So making it somewhat enjoyable and doable even for multiple classes should be our goal in my opinion!


    ~kind regards Noodlez

    Today I started to upgrade cards after the recent changes and I find that I even like the system apart from these three sets of cards. Probably there will be no person who will collect 2 sets of cards, many of which are unique and hard to get.

    I tried to max out one card to see how much it will cost me and be careful to get these values on this https://gyazo.com/2580bfea0b059da2886111b28bd0ebd4

    I have spent 2,500 diamonds and the card is not maxed out.

    I understand that the server must earn money, the game must earn money, but let's not exaggerate when you can deal with all the cards, the cost of making 1000 cards will be 2,500,000 diamonds. Anyone wondering how you did it? I think this is greatly exaggerated. I understand that some will be able to max the card for 1500 diamonds, others will have to spend 4000 diamonds, it depends on luck, but the prices are still exaggerated. reduce the costs at least ten times which will give you a very large profit anyway. Give the opportunity to use once earned cards in all 3 decks and the system will even be quite nice.


    If something is not understandable, I apologize. My English is not the best.

    i can pay high price but without RNG if u wanna RNG pls change price


    edit

    for me all cards should have all possible stats not only 4

    so 1 complet cards(not 3 like now) with all possible stats


    when i use leather plate and cloth(heal) gear i will use PATT STR DEX STA HP DEFF MDEFF WIS

    upgrae attributts is bad in my opinion only 0.1 attributs and 0.3(patt matt)

    if we can have all possible stats this must be changed also

    for me 0.3 attributs and 0.6 patt/matt will be ok

    Alternatively, you add a stone that maximizes all the stats on the card for promotion in the item store for about 250-300 diamonds, it would be cool for me. Randomness would have to be obtained the appropriate statistics on the card, but you could maximize them all with one stone

    The main issue in this thread is the fact that cards are no longer feasible to become all-stat-perfect. The probability for that to happen is astronomical (2 main stats have a 1 in 4.900 chance to come out perfect, 1 in 343.000 with three stats). Throwing this at the massive volume of cards creates the picture that the system is a cash grab, as FOMO hits hard. Rolling just one point lower per stat on 1.000 cards is the equivalent of about half an item missing in terms of stats. It's a massive difference!

    The system has become pretty good, if I am being honest. I've spent about 20k diamonds and gained ~1.000 Strength and about 2.000 pAtk, alongside ~5k life.


    The things that need tweaking now are the roll ranges of stats and a way to aquire currency without as much trash filling the inventory. Here is what I suggest:

    • Remove all the decimal points in the rolls.

    Primary cards (Physical/Magical/Defense) have roll ranges of 1-8.

    There is a 1/70 Chance for a stat on a card to come out perfect. Removing the decimal will increase this chance to 1/7.

    For off-stats (pAtk, Def, mAtk, mDef, Life, Mana) those rolls will come down form 1/450 to 1/45 (or 1/250 to 1/25)

    A perfect card would then still have 1/99.225 chance to come out perfect (1/15.435 for Rouges), instead of a 1/992.250.000 (154.350.000) chance



    • Give us a way to properly deal with the trash of farming

    OR

    • Give us a place to ONLY farm card materials

    Both of these options are viable. I would recommend the first one, as it could be as simple as an auto-selling tool included into the travelling merchant, pre-built loot filters for the loot-addon of one's choosing or anything else. The major instances these days already do not drop any trash items, so the exploit of passively gold farming just isn't there.


    Alternatively, a zone or a minigame being reworked to give the materials neccessary would give all players an avenue to farm them directly if they so choose, though they still will be able to buy the materials from other players. There is no downside to this.


    Still: The card system is much better than on release, so actual, good progress has been made here. I truly like the idea, though the amount of randomness should be reduced further - but not on the side of the cards. Influx of materials is the issue now. Rolling the cards is insanely fun (and addicting), so giving us more of that while eliminating the uncool rng-stuff is the best mode of action.

    • Official Post

    Last Patch

    In the last patch, the 2nd and 3rd decks were disabled:

    • You will not be able to place new cards in a 2-3 deck.
    • You will be able to draw cards from 2-3 decks.
      • We recommend that you do this soon, so that the improved system does not conflict with the cards currently placed.
    • All of these changes are necessary to improve additional decks, as well as the principle of the RNG.

    Planned Changes
    (in one of the following patches)
    All changes described may be corrected/modified/deleted before introducing patch, and all information is for reference only.

    Stardom for monster cards (a kind of ranking system). It will increase the chances of getting high numerical values for attributes, and also allows cards from the main deck to be available in additional decks.

    Features

    • Changed GUI in the Card Book.
    • By default, each card has 0 stars. A maximum of 5 stars is possible.
    • To increase the star level of the card you need:
      • Kill a conditional amount of a particular monster, on the card which you wish to increase the rank.
      • Get a conditional amount of a particular card and spend them in a special new GUI to increase the rank.
      • Unique (ancient) cards do not belong to this system and will automatically be available on an additional deck without any manipulation.
      • Cards from various events, quests, and any other places that may be in limited supply also automatically become available for additional decks.

    Properties

    • Selection of attributes on additional decks:
      • The choice is limited to the attributes of cards from the main deck.
      • If you haphazardly collect attributes on the main deck, you won't be able to pick quality attribute bundles on the complementary deck.
      • Selecting each attribute requires a fixed number of diamonds.
    • The higher the star level on the monster cards, the higher the chance of getting high numerical attribute values:
      • When improving with random stones.
      • With an improvement of 100% stones.


    The rest of the details will be available later or on the day the patch is introduced.

    Quote from Rake

    Unique (ancient) cards do not belong to this system and will automatically be available on an additional deck without any manipulation.
    Cards from various events, quests, and any other places that may be in limited supply also automatically become available for additional decks.

    So this means, we can use multiple decks at the same time in the future? Or do we have to decide between the untouched/vanilla/original and the manipulated decks?


    The rest sounds a lot like my trading card games I play... maybe you could manage to introduce an actual card game that is playable with the monster cards decks? :D Let's play a round of Gwent!

    This actually sounds like a very nice idea.

    I dont know if it actually would be possible to add an option for magic parfume to only loot monster cards which would increase the quality of life farming monster cards alot.

    Quote from Rake

    Stardom for monster cards (a kind of ranking system). It will increase the chances of getting high numerical values for attributes, and also allows cards from the main deck to be available in additional decks.

    Features

    • Changed GUI in the Card Book.
    • By default, each card has 0 stars. A maximum of 5 stars is possible.
    • To increase the star level of the card you need:
      • Kill a conditional amount of a particular monster, on the card which you wish to increase the rank.
      • Get a conditional amount of a particular card and spend them in a special new GUI to increase the rank.

    It sounds really interesting. What I liked from the first days of cards system (and it got removed) was farming ALL mobs of the map several times. It seems if we want a cheaper & better RNG we will need to do that so, for me is a HELL YES.

    Quote from Rake
      • Unique (ancient) cards do not belong to this system and will automatically be available on an additional deck without any manipulation.
      • Cards from various events, quests, and any other places that may be in limited supply also automatically become available for additional decks.

    GOOD! We still need to see the list but that is a really (really) good solution for me. Farming normal mobs is ok if all the quests, events etc are in my second deck already. Question, are instances included? all of them? none of them? Some are easy but others have some impossible cards.



    Quote from Rake

    Properties

    • Selection of attributes on additional decks:
      • The choice is limited to the attributes of cards from the main deck.
      • If you haphazardly collect attributes on the main deck, you won't be able to pick quality attribute bundles on the complementary deck.
      • Selecting each attribute requires a fixed number of diamonds.


    Hmm could Rake or anyone explain this better? I think I didn't understand. :/


    Quote from Rake
    • The higher the star level on the monster cards, the higher the chance of getting high numerical attribute values:
      • When improving with random stones.
      • With an improvement of 100% stones.

    I like it. Would be really nice if we have acess to those real numbers. Like with 0 stars, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 how "better" RNG is.


    I still need to see some numbers on the RNG related to the stars level and an explanation of the part I didn't understand but in general, it looks really promising. Im excited.


    :thumbup:

    Quote from Rake

    • The higher the star level on the monster cards, the higher the chance of getting high numerical attribute values:
      • When improving with random stones.
      • With an improvement of 100% stones.

    Will the cost be lower in total than the current system? The current one is still very expensive even after the tweaks.

    Quote from Zyrex

    The rest sounds a lot like my trading card games I play... maybe you could manage to introduce an actual card game that is playable with the monster cards decks? :D Let's play a round of Gwent!

    Tremble before Nilfgaard!

    • Official Post
    Quote from Madox

    Hmm could Rake or anyone explain this better? I think I didn't understand. :/

    There will be a specific table that explicitly specifies which attributes on a card from the main deck will allow you to choose attributes on cards in additional decks. This will also be available to players, but in a more clear and simplified form, in the compendium.

    To give you an example:

    Card #1 of the main deck has the following attributes:

    1. DEX

    2. STR

    3. STA

    4. PATK

    With these attributes, in an additional deck the player will be able to have ONE of the following attributes:
    1. DEX → STA

    2. STR → HP or PATK or PDEF

    3. STA → INT or PDEF or STR

    4. PATK → MATK or WIS or STR or HP

    You may notice that a bunch of attributes on a card from the main deck (dex, str, sta, patk) will make a card in an additional deck for the magic class (sta, hp, int, matk) or for the tanking class (sta, pdef, str, hp) or for the healing class (sta, hp, pdef, wis).

    But for the example, I took a quality combination of attributes on a card from the main deck (dex, str, sta, patk). If I had randomly chosen attributes, such as (dex, mdef, int, patk), I would be unlikely to get quality attributes when choosing on an additional deck.


    All this is just an example and to explain the principle in more detail.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Noodlez

    Will the cost be lower in total than the current system? The current one is still very expensive even after the tweaks.

    In all of our past, current, and future changes, we try to make it not just cheap, but meaningful and fun. If players increase the stardom of the cards, then they will have a more enjoyable and easier process of improving the cards, as far as increasing the numerical values of the attributes.


    But please remember, RNG in any sense of the word remains as RNG. Some are lucky and some are not, but we will try to make it more accessible to most players.

    Quote from JockelR

    This actually sounds like a very nice idea.

    I dont know if it actually would be possible to add an option for magic parfume to only loot monster cards which would increase the quality of life farming monster cards alot.

    We do not forget about your requests and will definitely consider this possibility.

    Quote from Madox

    GOOD! We still need to see the list but that is a really (really) good solution for me. Farming normal mobs is ok if all the quests, events etc are in my second deck already. Question, are instances included? all of them? none of them? Some are easy but others have some impossible cards.

    For now, rare cards but unrestricted game content (events, unique cards, quests, etc.) will not automatically be distributed to additional decks. They will be rare, valuable, and difficult to obtain a higher level star.

    Quote from Madox

    Would be really nice if we have acess to those real numbers. Like with 0 stars, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 how "better" RNG is.

    We won't promise or guarantee anything, but as far as I know we will make provision for this. At least if we are talking about 100% stones, how it will be for random stones is still unknown.

    Quote from Rake
    Quote from Madox

    Would be really nice if we have acess to those real numbers. Like with 0 stars, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 how "better" RNG is.

    We won't promise or guarantee anything, but as far as I know we will make provision for this. At least if we are talking about 100% stones, how it will be for random stones is still unknown.

    I didn't use a single perfect 100% stone, ever. What RNG is in these stones? aren't they perfect 100% already?


    RNG in random stones is literally the main problem of the whole system, you should be focusing on these, not in perfect ones.

    for me u should give all possible att for card not 4 like now u think 2 much


    upgrade cards must be cheaper or give more like i said earlier now 0.1/0.3 change for 0.3/0.6

    why ? for ppl who have one eq it will be cheaper like they want

    for me? i have time, i do faster att for leather class after this i will add stats for tank and heal so i use tons of stones

    i dont get it why u dont want do this


    its simple solution

    simple way = best way

    in mu opinion ofc

    but everyone will be happy i think

    • Official Post
    Quote from Madox

    I didn't use a single perfect 100% stone, ever. What RNG is in these stones? aren't they perfect 100% already?


    RNG in random stones is literally the main problem of the whole system, you should be focusing on these, not in perfect ones.

    They have no RNG, they increase 100% by a fixed number. But the higher the stardom on the card, the higher that number will be when using 100% stones.
    Better cards - easier and faster to make the highest numerical values, both at random stones and at 100%

    Bug report: In the last patch I reported that "magical attack" in cards ranking is missing, atleast in Spanish client. It is still missing. I only have physical attack.