Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from Dracoo

    For example nerf the damage output of the

    Dr/wl & s/w with 40%-50%
    All other good dps classes with 25%-35%
    The remaining mages with 10%-15%

    You know that mages are still top dps? Oo ever played with a good mage in the group? Only think where mages are not top is 2-3 second burst single target as in your example.


    If you want nerf damage output, take a look on support classes, bcs most of raid damage coming from them.


    For example (after the nice healer changes! Ty for it!)

    WL/m is mainly a support. You can let 6% buff scale with wisdom or heal bonus like surge of awarenes could scale with wisdom or heal bonus for example. Some support skills of the class scale with heal bonus


    Warrior/priest: let the HP/crit buff and the buff from berserk scale with strength. Warrior/priest is still a dps and can do damage.


    Champ/druid: let knowledge of destruction and the patk/matk buff scale with stamina (for Tank/shield form) and/or strength. This class is a good dps!


    Scout/priest: let raid dmg buff and attackspeed buff scale with dex/str or dex only. This class is still a good dps!


    Mage/warlock: no change needed. Forgotten black Magic was changed in the past, that it scales with matk. 👍 For it


    These are just a few thoughts. The supporter classes should be more integrated. I often see classes like ch/d, w/p and s/p played in cloth gear doing nothing else but using 2 skills every few minutes 🙈


    Greetings

    Yep, those are also great ideas!

    To scale buffs based on stats/PAtt/MAtt would make it certainly more interesting.


    Still the overall damage output must be lowered to make runs more challenging/interesting. &)

    In my opinion, lowering the damage now doesn't make any sense and addressing that. Damage was now being lowered. The instance is already heavily exploited and artificially extended by several events that should look different. In fact, instead, there could be longer and more difficult boss fights. Now they should focus on the upcoming instance so that its level is high enough. Now dealing with an Instance that has been around for quite a long time and most of the players are fed up with it and waiting for something new does not make sense. If they extended it now, it would only discourage people from doing it.

    Maybe the best idea is change alls support classes like the heals that they need good gear too to play the class so that wl/mage scaling on int champ/druid and champ/priest maybe on wis or str the scout/priest support can scaling on dex and the warriort/priest support scaling on str i think that would be nice and a good dmg nerv over all

    imo if ppl want to nerf, they can self nerf and use red gear or gorge gear or inferno gear if they're looking for a challenge :P

    if ppl put in real money to make their char stronger then why should we revert back to when times were harder ?

    theres also other servers that make challenges harder ;)

    we should think about all ppl on server not just a few.

    i dont like the feeling that im getting punished for make myself stronger. :evil:

    Quote from Laisha
    Quote from playboy

    imo if ppl want to nerf, they can self nerf and use red gear or gorge gear or inferno gear if they're looking for a challenge :P

    Did that, still was no challenge because classes deal way too much damage, mobs/bosses deal way too less and some heals are insanly broken.


    Greetings



    so if im reading this right it sounds to me from all ppl calling for nerfs is that DEV's made a mistake making golden gear and weapons ?

    Regarding S/R


    Currently this class is compared to other scouts very unpleasant to play because it needs better setup and more skills to set up at a boss.

    To make this class more fun/pleassant to play i would like to suggest make physical attack from Sapping Arrow "491496" be passive.

    Remove the Physical defense reduction of the skill(since its the same like the druid seeds) and change it to something for example "The target which has the Sapping Arrow applied receive 50% Bonus DMG for each attack the S/R applies on that target", or "Increases the received DMG by the one applying the Sapping Arrow by 10%".

    This would i think make this class a bit stronger and more rewarding to play this class because right now this class sees barely any play.


    Greetings

    Jockel

    Its only good for farming stones, mws, bcs 3 slots for loot rune :)

    The change they made seems good to me, but it takes away the opportunity to appeal to healers with little knowledge or who are just starting out, I suppose that nobody will want to enter the game and spend 1k euros on the first day, they should review and do that be intermediate

    Quote from deathxjoe

    The change they made seems good to me, but it takes away the opportunity to appeal to healers with little knowledge or who are just starting out, I suppose that nobody will want to enter the game and spend 1k euros on the first day, they should review and do that be intermediate

    same like dps? anyone were angry about new dps players doing low dmg? Why should ppl be angry about healer buffs? If a healer has low gear and the dps are angry, they should send all stats and clean stones to the healer :D

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from deathxjoe

    The change they made seems good to me, but it takes away the opportunity to appeal to healers with little knowledge or who are just starting out, I suppose that nobody will want to enter the game and spend 1k euros on the first day, they should review and do that be intermediate

    same like dps? anyone were angry about new dps players doing low dmg? Why should ppl be angry about healer buffs? If a healer has low gear and the dps are angry, they should send all stats and clean stones to the healer :D

    It's the same issue as with the dreaded 30% nerf: It fucks over those that hadn't had the chance to build up harder than those who had. It disproportionately affects the starters.

    Quote from MidanLauert
    Quote from xLutinex

    same like dps? anyone were angry about new dps players doing low dmg? Why should ppl be angry about healer buffs? If a healer has low gear and the dps are angry, they should send all stats and clean stones to the healer :D

    It's the same issue as with the dreaded 30% nerf: It fucks over those that hadn't had the chance to build up harder than those who had. It disproportionately affects the starters.

    Why? I already prefer flat values for patk buff. It is always better than %-patk., but for new healers in highend guild. But that shouldn't be a problem. New guilds doesn't have a negative effect.

    Only the druid buff is lower than before, but the patk buff compensate it. please tell in detail why it should dispropertionately affects starters? And make sure in the calculation, that all players have same level and not 1 is full golden rofl, the other tikal statted.


    Greetings

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MidanLauert

    It's the same issue as with the dreaded 30% nerf: It fucks over those that hadn't had the chance to build up harder than those who had. It disproportionately affects the starters.

    Why? I already prefer flat values for patk buff. It is always better than %-patk., but for new healers in highend guild. But that shouldn't be a problem. New guilds doesn't have a negative effect.

    Only the druid buff is lower than before, but the patk buff compensate it. please tell in detail why it should dispropertionately affects starters? And make sure in the calculation, that all players have same level and not 1 is full golden rofl, the other tikal statted.


    Greetings

    Glad you asked! It's a more economical calculation than anything, but here we go:
    Getting a healer with a red rofl item, let's say the body armour, one of the cheaper pieces, costs about 4.000 Diamonds - in addition, you need to stat.


    Arcadia Wisdom is about 500 Diamonds

    Wis/Wis Tikal is about 1.5k,

    Wis/Wis inferno is being sold for 3k,

    Wis/Wis Gorge is about 4-5k,

    Wis/Wis Rofl is about 1800 Diamonds.

    Wis/Stam Rofl is about 500 Diamonds.

    That makes about 500+1500+3000+5000+1800+500+4000 = 16.300 Diamonds.


    A leather item is about 1.5k as a red rofl item

    dex/dex rofl is 300 Diamonds

    dex/dex gorge about 700

    dex/dex inferno about 500

    Str/Str Rofl is about 850 Diamonds

    Gorge about 3.5-5k (prices are volatile)

    inferno about 2k

    That makes about 300+700+500+850+5000+2000+1500 = 10.850 Diamonds.


    To reach the same values on your DPS as before, your healer has to spend 1,5023 or 150,23% of a leather gear wearer to gain the same amount of buff as before. Money which lower geared players simply do not have. The imerpative "I" in your statement shows a lack of how players actually grow up these days - you've been in the endgame too long.


    For your rebuttal, I expect you to at least write a three page essay on comparative economics and cooperative capitalism. Be sure to include references from the list of approved sources (yes, I'm making fun of the way you assigned me a maths question. You ain't my professor. ;P)

    Ok and now tell me, what do you think how high does the patt buff need to be to reach the same level as before and calculate which stats u need for that thanks.

    nah fam. do that yourself. :P In all seriousness though: my argument is an economical one. Healers with the same amount of investment as typical dps will have a lower return on investment than before, unless they are fully geared, fully statted - then it will be higher.

    I don't know where these prices come from, but not from AH of the Paradise server. oO

    Furthermore: Why always ppl calculating with prices (yours from maybe january 2021). Just farm it yourself. took more time yes, but hey, take your time for the game.


    Furthermore: you only reference with leather, not with for example mdps (I wonder why xD)


    And the "I" in "I would always prefer flat patk values" does not coming from too long endgame. It comes from my mathematical skills and damage formulas, which I calculate maybe more often than the average player here.


    P.S.: Do not trust any statistics that you have not falsified yourself


    Greetings

    Quote from MidanLauert
    Quote from JockelR

    Ok and now tell me, what do you think how high does the patt buff need to be to reach the same level as before and calculate which stats u need for that thanks.

    nah fam. do that yourself. :P In all seriousness though: my argument is an economical one. Healers with the same amount of investment as typical dps will have a lower return on investment than before, unless they are fully geared, fully statted - then it will be higher.

    Even a patk buff of 110k patk /matk for nowadays endgame dps, are quite even with the old 18% buff... now think about how much wisdom you need fullbuffed (pls don't try unbuffed xD)


    I don't think that healers don't like the changes in general. Now back to topic in this thread

    I like new changes... as long as Byte do what I asked. Lower buff shouldn't remove higher one.


    I'm also scared to see where this is going. Please don't forget that new players are an important part of this game. If only endgame players will be giving good buffs, all guilds will die at the end since newcomers will run away screaming. Most come from other servers, they know the game and they should have a way to contribute to endgame guilds while they gear up.


    I'm against changing supports buffs depending on the gear like healers or m/wl have now. I really hope that bard support classes don't require good gear to be used.

    Back to the topic.


    D/P

    its stated in the patch notes that rain of light was changed to not use castspeed multiplicator as an output but it still healls 600k+ every 2 seconds which is still way too much, maybe take a look into that.

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MidanLauert

    nah fam. do that yourself. :P In all seriousness though: my argument is an economical one. Healers with the same amount of investment as typical dps will have a lower return on investment than before, unless they are fully geared, fully statted - then it will be higher.

    Even a patk buff of 110k patk /matk for nowadays endgame dps, are quite even with the old 18% buff... now think about how much wisdom you need fullbuffed (pls don't try unbuffed xD)


    I don't think that healers don't like the changes in general. Now back to topic in this thread

    Endgame healers love the changes, no doubt. We're not talking about that. Those who arent statted as high have gotten a nerf - my heal gear for red rofl comes up to about ~130k. With that I'm giving out a buff of about 115k; That set cost a pretty penny (About 110k Diamonds), even though it is statted with mostly budget stats from before the change.


    That's a price tag of, with a 200% promo, of 200€ :)


    The stats were more expensive than the one on my golden chain gear - which is 5/1, as was meta when it was built. But here is the thing: You like these changes, the break even to the old skill also depends on your class combination (surprise!) because they are great for the endgame - for the healers coming up it was a pretty drastic change. I personally like the change too, but I am also very aware of how these changes could frustrate newer players a lot. It forces progression upon healers, which is a good thing, but also made that progression harder, which is a bad thing. Healer items are additionally in shortage. If you don't give willing players a foot to stand on, how are they going to find their way into the game where they then come to a point where they become willing to pay that price? Answer: They aren't.

    To make it more understandable what the issue is: Healers were a way for players into the game, a pretty good one, as healing was easy, didn't require much and brought good stuff to the table. Of course you do not feel this negative part of the chance: you already have everything, so obtaining it is not an issue. Obtaining that power becomes harder and harder with each change like that.


    The reason why original runes was such a success was because everyone could farm basically everything they wanted for gold. Sure, Diamonds were RMT only, but diasellers emerged as soon as level 50 (some even earlier). The barrier to start playing the game was set at "do you have a computer and at least one working hand" - which includes 99% of the population. Here, on the other hand, you turn level 104 in starter gear and you are too weak to heal/dps/tank even DL. They can do barely anything without paying - and healers were one of the few classes you could forcefully drag through the instances with some use. You are then asked to pay a minimum of 50€ to keep playing. The whole Kingdom Hearts Series costs 60€ on sale at the epic games store for PC, ESO (A direct competitor) costs 5 bucks + some DLC costs for the same amount of content, new MMOs come out regularly with a lower price tag.

    How again is CoA supposed to compete with that when there is no way for players other than relying on the kindness of likely strangers to get over this barrier? And even then, it may take months for a player to then stand on their own - with healers it was different, and that has been taken away. If supports are changed similarly, I can guarantee you that even less players will try to get into the game. Anyone below the endgame was nerfed, period. The midgame barely exists anymore anyways, and this was another (annoying) slap to them.


    It's ironic how you yourself preach objectivity in your signature and argue every post with the most subject thing there is: an "I".

    You really want to criticize my opinion, because I say "I / My opinion"? Nice job bro, nice bro.

    It is ironic that you calculate everything to buy in AH instead of farm. That way, you don't need any diamond for stats and gear. Cool isn't it? Everyone can do that. An awesome fact! :O

    Quote from xLutinex

    You really want to criticize my opinion, because I say "I / My opinion"? Nice job bro, nice bro.

    It is ironic that you calculate everything to buy in AH instead of farm. That way, you don't need any diamond for stats and gear. Cool isn't it? Everyone can do that. An awesome fact! :O

    Ah yes, the drones of new players going from below hos to rofl that are swarming the server and never buying anything. Awesome, didn't know they exist! Perfection!


    We both know they don't exist. :)