Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Bard/Scout


    I don't understand this change:

    Increased Soul Gale damage decrement for each extra target to 24% from 16%.

    Reduced Intensity speed gain to 12% from 20%


    This class was strong every 4 minutes. But in aoe not stronger than b/m and in single target not stronger than b/wl.

    With the upcoming change this class will be useless, because you have a kind of non existing AOE damage (remember obstacle shifting is useless on b/s) and the single target will nerfed to a point, where every other pure dps class will do more.

    Best example: w/wl has incredibly strong AOE and single damage, by far more than b/s 🤷



    Priest/Bard and Druid/Bard


    Changed Neotropical Warmth to get overridden by Priest/Bard Musical Halo.


    Why this change? This makes the main reason playing Druid/bard non existent anymore. If you think the resource reduction is too high with both, reduce the benefit of the second same buff to the half. So If musical halo is up, neotropical warmth should reduced to 10%.

    I want to mention that the strongest dps classes atm don't really need resource cost reduction, bcs they don't have resource problems



    Greetings

    I think B/S has a critical problem in class design.

    It will always be either too strong or too weak because of the fact that he has a 2 spell rotation with deadly arrows and joint blow.

    The better solution for this class would be a remake of elite skills. I know it can be incredible hard to come up with ideas but i think these changes would make this class more enjoyable too play and also easier to balance since you can tune more spells and add cooldowns according to the damage.


    My suggestion is:

    - Give back some Damage of the blood arrow and delete the 25 born to kill Elite

    - Rework lvl 60 Elite too adjust all spells too inflict elemental damage maybe Aero damage (there is no real scout who is like other classes who only do elemental dmg, so that would be nice too see)

    - New lvl 25 Elite changes lost sanity/rhytmic delusion/octave shifting into ranged skills (still requires an instrument)

    1. Lost Sanity: Basicly a filler attack deals moderate damage based on ranged dps (non gcd)

    2. Rhytmic delusion low Damage on the target but instead of reducing the precision it will give a buff that you are

    Arrow rune will inflict more damage on that target(too balance single target and AOE)

    3. Octave shifting: An aoe shooting 3 quick waves of arrows into a fan shaped area in front of the player.

    (would be very good to force to have a good position to inflict more dmg -> more skill based class)


    I think there are cool things which could be done with this class but at the current state this class is just 1 dimensional and for a lot of players only played because it was very broken.


    Kind Regards

    Jockels

    Hey ,


    • Changed Tempo to ignore terrain obstacles.
    • Changed Octave Shifting to ignore terrain obstacles.

    Would be cool if those changes could also be extended to the Druid lvl 104 Clean , i have seen it many times not catch all raidmembers in range due to little obstacles etc


    Greetings

    If you identify a UFO as a UFO , then it becomes an FO. Unless it has landed , then it is simply an -> O

    Like 3 Love 1
    Quote from Cruvor

    Hey ,


    • Changed Tempo to ignore terrain obstacles.
    • Changed Octave Shifting to ignore terrain obstacles.

    Would be cool if those changes could also be extended to the Druid lvl 104 Clean , i have seen it many times not catch all raidmembers in range due to little obstacles etc


    Greetings

    [Party] [Cruvor]: little leaf 1 Madoxx 0


    I tried ;(

    b/m, b/d, m/k


    Hi there,


    I was playing the b/m and b/d a lot these days (in rofl and hoto. Had no chance to try in Kalin yet unfortunately). And my conclusion is, that any bard feels very strong. As a b/m you deal less dmg than b/d, but have more utility and can compensate misplays or failpulls pretty well, whilst b/d has literally nothing in terms of CC (can't even use the interrupt w/o switching to an instrument via macro, which takes too long right now). So the balancing between b/m and b/d is fine I think.


    I also had the chance to compare and compete with some b/s in rofl, which was really fun. The b/m seems to deal more or less equal damage as the b/s. With the planned b/s nerf I think, the b/m could be better overall. However, I don't see any sense in the planned nerf anyways. The bards are more or less equally balanced compared with themselves I guess.


    Only 1 spell isn't as useful: Musical Attack. The spell deals too tiny damage for being useful. In my dps tests, using Fiery Magic over Musical Attack is much better, even without the proc. And if you don't have any support for resources, you easily run out of focus using MA. So maybe consider changing it dealing elemental damage as well, this would help pretty much I guess.


    Last but not least, I compared the b/m with m/k, since both classes seem to be designed pretty similarly (just the way of survivability is a bit different). With the latest m/k stars of light nerf, m/k is entirely useless if you can play b/m or b/d instead. Everything the mage can do is worse than what bard does. Discharge < Chorea, you got an additional interrupt with "The best Song", dps is more consistant and if your ground target hits a leaf or bubble, you won't loose most of your damage as well. The only disadvantage of b/m (and reason to play m/k instead) is the channels which disable you to use your CC most of the time. Especially in situations you need to interrupt casts, the b/m can annoy with its channel spells which can't be interrupted by moving. But that's class design and balances the class in terms of cc pretty well imo.


    So at this point, maybe a mage buff would make sense again? Haven't tried other mage classes yet, but I assume, the results would be equal. Maybe anyone else made some experience about that?

    Mage/knight is dead. You can't compare with this class since stars light channel is now stupidly long and useless.


    I used mage/bard a few times and I can say that is a waste of time aswell. Is a mix between a bad support and a really bad dps in ALL aspects, it isn't good in any kind of dmg. It is a copypaste of mage/rogue but with worse numbers in every skill.


    Idk how the rest of mages are performing in terms of dmg. I will have to check soon I guess, once the bards fever is down and people start playing old classes. What I can say is, about playstyle (not dmg), bards are WAY more fun and pleasant to play. Mages have 4-5 min long cds in its buffs, most of its dmg come from spamming static field, 1s cd skill with gcd that do a max of 3 hits when there are 2 mobs. Thats it. Almost no other spell is used in almost any mage combination most of the ini. They became boring and slow to play.

    Bards have only a few usable skills but we constantly see fast channels and instant skills that make the classes really fluid and cool to play seeing many little numbers on screen.


    I don't think bard/druid can be compared with any other class in game. It is super weird designed. Not being able to use many of the skills since is using staff is a bit sad tho. For me bard/mage is the best desgined one. Spam a 3 seconds cast after every skill is a single dmg sustain boost that normal mages don't have and it feels good.

    Quote from Madox

    I used mage/bard a few times and I can say that is a waste of time aswell. Is a mix between a bad support and a really bad dps in ALL aspects, it isn't good in any kind of dmg. It is a copypaste of mage/rogue but with worse numbers in every skill.

    I played it once in hoto and agree, it felt like a bad m/s in a mix with m/wl. At least the elemental weakness was comfortable to use. The class felt pretty massive, but damage was just tiny. Guess the class just misses some base dmg or an increase in elemental dmg passively.

    Quote


    What I can say is, about playstyle (not dmg), bards are WAY more fun and pleasant to play. Mages have 4-5 min long cds in its buffs, most of its dmg come from spamming static field (...).

    100% agree. Mage always was like spamming static field with some fillers (non-gcds) in between, while using the strongest cast on the boss, more or less. Have you compared bards with druids or warlocks yet?

    Quote


    For me bard/mage is the best desgined one. Spam a 3 seconds cast after every skill is a single dmg sustain boost that normal mages don't have and it feels good.

    Imagine using an elemental damage flame or fireball proc after every spell on mage :huh::pinch:

    Quote from Zyrex

    The only disadvantage of b/m (...) is the channels which disable you to use your CC most of the time. Especially in situations you need to interrupt casts, the b/m can annoy with its channel spells which can't be interrupted by moving.

    Quote from Plannes Changes

    Bard/Mage

    • Changed Fireball Shower to get interrupted while moving.

    I appreciate the speed of changes planned, but think, that's not necessary. I do like the fact that you need to pay attention of your channels/rotation in CC-situations. With the fireballshower being interruptable, the class looses its very only disadvantage/"difficulty", which would be awful. But thanks for the intention tho. :thumbup:


    Also, by interrupting the channel, we could exploit that mechanic and cancel it intentionally after 3 hits for an increase in dps I guess. I would prefer not having such "mechanics" in the class :pinch:


    Edit: to be clear, my quoted post was not a complain at all, I appreciate the channels being usable while moving very much, makes the class deal consistent damage in fast pace situations.

    Quote from Zyrex

    Have you compared bards with druids or warlocks yet?

    I compared with warlock/scout the other day and is bad. Not only in dmg but in design. Rofl is just too fast for the class to be fluid. It needs changes. 50% of the time you are trying to get psi and transform into dps mode xD.

    I just did a run as m/ch and is 30% under b/m in overall dmg. Balton and last is even worse tho, a pure shame haha.

    Gonna try d/wl :P

    Bard/Warlock

    • Changed elemental damage type to dark damage from wind damage.

    I completely don't understand this change any more than I understand the bard/scout changes. It looks to me like an attempt to destroy a cool combination and thus go towards unplayability. I don't know why you are introducing a new class if it will be simply unplayable after balancing anyway. And B/Wl could have been weakened in other ways instead of taking away darkness damage and giving wind damage instead. For example, you could reduce Darknes, A rise by a few percent as well as damage on individual skills.

    Quote from Marcellos

    Bard/Warlock

    • Changed elemental damage type to dark damage from wind damage.

    I completely don't understand this change any more than I understand the bard/scout changes. It looks to me like an attempt to destroy a cool combination and thus go towards unplayability. I don't know why you are introducing a new class if it will be simply unplayable after balancing anyway. And B/Wl could have been weakened in other ways instead of taking away darkness damage and giving wind damage instead. For example, you could reduce Darknes, A rise by a few percent as well as damage on individual skills.

    It is about the lv 90 ISS I assume.


    That should be a buff^^.


    Greetings

    Quote from Marcellos

    Bard/Warlock

    • Changed elemental damage type to dark damage from wind damage.

    I completely don't understand this change any more than I understand the bard/scout changes. It looks to me like an attempt to destroy a cool combination and thus go towards unplayability. I don't know why you are introducing a new class if it will be simply unplayable after balancing anyway. And B/Wl could have been weakened in other ways instead of taking away darkness damage and giving wind damage instead. For example, you could reduce Darknes, A rise by a few percent as well as damage on individual skills.

    It is saying the opposite, it had a wind skill and now is dark :D

    Quote from Marcellos

    Bard/Warlock

    • Changed elemental damage type to dark damage from wind damage.

    I completely don't understand this change any more than I understand the bard/scout changes. It looks to me like an attempt to destroy a cool combination and thus go towards unplayability. I don't know why you are introducing a new class if it will be simply unplayable after balancing anyway. And B/Wl could have been weakened in other ways instead of taking away darkness damage and giving wind damage instead. For example, you could reduce Darknes, A rise by a few percent as well as damage on individual skills.

    i guess they change the damage type from spells who have a "elemental damage" marker like the 90 ISS to dark damage for this class which is a buff not a nerf.

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from Zyrex

    Have you compared bards with druids or warlocks yet?

    I compared with warlock/scout the other day and is bad. Not only in dmg but in design. Rofl is just too fast for the class to be fluid. It needs changes. 50% of the time you are trying to get psi and transform into dps mode xD.

    I just did a run as m/ch and is 30% under b/m in overall dmg. Balton and last is even worse tho, a pure shame haha.

    Gonna try d/wl :P

    b/m vs d/wl. Removing 1 part I died. d/wl is 31.5% under b/m in overall dmg.

    B1 single burst, organs, balton and last (no bulls) were pretty much similar dmg in both classes. I imagine all this difference come from aoe burst and mobs sustain dmg.

    Heyho,


    About the b/s

    Quote from xLutinex

    This class was strong every 4 minutes. But in aoe not stronger than b/m and in single target not stronger than b/wl.

    Yeah that is true but you compare the strongest mdps single target class with weak aoe and a extremely strong aoe class combined here.


    Quote from xLutinex

    and the single target will nerfed to a point, where every other pure dps class will do more.

    I am not 100% sure but maybe that will be the case. From my point of view i always saw b/s with a VERY strong single target and as a mdps you only have the b/wl to compete in any way with this class in terms of single target. In aoe ofc the /s is way stronger.



    Quote from JockelR

    I think B/S has a critical problem in class design.

    It will always be either too strong or too weak because of the fact that he has a 2 spell rotation with deadly arrows and joint blow.

    Absolutely understandable it's like with many mages. Especially boss "rotation". For S/M it really feels the same.

    but:



    It depends on the values of these changes but these are nearly only very good buffs for this class. Especially in terms of single target.


    Quote from JockelR

    It will always be either too strong or too weak because of the fact that he has a 2 spell rotation with deadly arrows and joint blow.

    Until now - there was never a point where this class was anything near underperforming. If the sustain dmg is too low maybe lowering burst skills for some permanent buffs would be better.


    Quote from Zyrex

    I also had the chance to compare and compete with some b/s in rofl, which was really fun. The b/m seems to deal more or less equal damage as the b/s. With the planned b/s nerf I think, the b/m could be better overall.

    Sorry but i am wondering how b/s does less dmg. Yeah the sustain dmg isn't that high comapred to b/m and it has a very good burst aoe. But in terms of single target there is no chance.


    Quote from Zyrex

    Only 1 spell isn't as useful: Musical Attack. The spell deals too tiny damage for being useful.

    100% agree on that. The only reason on all classes that use Musical Attack is that there is nothing else/better to use.



    Quote from Zyrex

    Imagine using an elemental damage flame or fireball proc after every spell on mage :huh: :pinch:

    The funny part is that a static field does more dmg than your 3s cast on classes like M/W or M/s because flame has such bad basedmg.


    Quote from Zyrex

    100% agree. Mage always was like spamming static field with some fillers (non-gcds) in between

    The main reason for that is that every other skill is bad. The decrement on thunder kills it's dmg and meteor shower is better in big pulls if you used thunder for the buff. Purgatory fire is completely useless because of % mana cost, melee range and literally no dmg AND a decrement.

    The single target has no variation too. Just spam your strongest cast.



    And overall: Even if the b/wl b/m or b/s is stronger in any ways than other classes. It doesn't mean that classes need to be buffed to this level. These classes just need a nerf.


    Greetings

    Absolutly, values ofc need to be changed and completly new adjusted for that class, especially transfering meele too range skills in terms of dps, and it should be seen as a complete revamp idea instead of balancing changes.


    Kind Regards

    Jockels

    Regarding upcoming healer changes:

    • Changed Amplified Attack to get scaled based on unbuffed wisdom and/or base bonus heal points.


    Good idea, but please get in mind, that with the condition "or" you can build "heal" gear only with dirty stones or with only sta/sta again ^^In my mind it would be really good, that you can do it in a way, that the healer must use buffood (hero potion, transfo potion, wedding food, dracos). If it is only unbuffed values, healer can again running everywhere unbuffed and heal unbuffed :D

    Quote from xLutinex

    Regarding upcoming healer changes:

    • Changed Amplified Attack to get scaled based on unbuffed wisdom and/or base bonus heal points.


    Good idea, but please get in mind, that with the condition "or" you can build "heal" gear only with dirty stones or with only sta/sta again ^^In my mind it would be really good, that you can do it in a way, that the healer must use buffood (hero potion, transfo potion, wedding food, dracos). If it is only unbuffed values, healer can again running everywhere unbuffed and heal unbuffed :D

    If someone wants to do that to golden healer gear, that seems very fair imho. The way it was now was pretty annoying. Also it should work with cenedril heal bonus, which kinda got neglected before in lieu of more wisdom. Imho a good change, but healers definitely need to get a nerf to their healing.

    Hi

    I have a couple of scout-related suggestions.


    Piercing arrow ID 493289 - remove the need for the target to work by hitting targets in front of you within a 50 radius


    s / w increase skill ID 501821 from 10.4% to 15.4%

    The last weakening meant that this connection does not play the role of area or single DPS.


    S / D Currently, the link also needs a significant boost, I suggest boosting skill ID 504719 from 21.2% to 25.8%


    S / WD would improve the probability of receiving damage from the skill ID 504547 from 50% to 65%


    S / K is currently a combination that does not take place in any instance, rebuild it for a walkable tank or change it to dps.


    Greetings

    Hey,


    i tested in the last two weeks Priest/Warrior a few times and came to the conclusion.


    The recent changes were necessary and the class is nice to play currently. Aoe is really strong but the class lacks in single target. For example in Rofl at the Organs or Balton you never have a chance to compete with any other classes. In trash you use mostly your Chain of Light and if you are lucky, then you can do 2-3 skills of single target rotation.


    I would suggest, that Skill: 495294 also triggers a Slash: 1490365. This would buff the single target a bit and would not let you overperform due to the 3 seconds cooldown of this Skill and moreover at first you cast your channel: 499983 and then your main spell: 499981.


    In Numbers of my last run: I did 137x Skill: 495294 and 98x Slash: 1490365. Slash: 1490365 hits in average with 2.39kk --> If you overdraw, you get to about ~330kk more damage in the whole instance. Of course, this value is only an estimate, but at Balton or at the Organs it would be a small buff. Especially in the fast meta it would be necessary.


    Greetings