Why not remove the need of stacking 3 times or the only 6 seconds HOT? I already have to use mana potion every 30s in world boss (in between of the class mana skill).
2% mana for a skill that we need to spam and that is there only for 6s HOT is crazy.
Druid/Scout
- Changed Camellia Flower MP cost to 2% from 350.
Why not remove the need of stacking 3 times or the only 6 seconds HOT? I already have to use mana potion every 30s in world boss (in between of the class mana skill).
2% mana for a skill that we need to spam and that is there only for 6s HOT is crazy.
the first stack of the HoT is much, much more powerful than the added two, though... I can definitely see where they are coming from, especially since you could restore your own (and you allies) mana. While this buff is active you'll also develop 3 stacks of camelia instantly.
Druid/Scout
- Changed Camellia Flower MP cost to 2% from 350.
Why not remove the need of stacking 3 times or the only 6 seconds HOT? I already have to use mana potion every 30s in world boss (in between of the class mana skill).
2% mana for a skill that we need to spam and that is there only for 6s HOT is crazy.
You just need to adapt your group/buff food/playstyle if you need more mana.
Currently, I never have to pot mana on worldboss (no matter if its a 15min or 40min fight) so I honestly think its fine if you need to do something as a heal 
Also, you don't need to "spam" this skill every second but once its on 3 only every 5sec or so. If you have other classes in the group that can restore mana it shouldn't be a problem.
Also there are other heal cominations that'll get changen that can restore mana better after the change so...
the first stack of the HoT is much, much more powerful than the added two, though... I can definitely see where they are coming from, especially since you could restore your own (and you allies) mana.
2 minutes CD. As I said, I have to use mana pot every 30 seconds in world boss (before this change).
While this buff is active you'll also develop 3 stacks of camelia instantly.
Which buff? Only way to get instant 3 stacks is if someone is under 50% hp.
While this buff is active you'll also develop 3 stacks of camelia instantly.
Which buff? Only way to get instant 3 stacks is if someone is under 50% hp.
Oh, you're right, my bad!
i dont know if this is a good idea
normal healers should have around 1kk mana so this skill would only provide 10% mana (10s x 10k fixed mana = 100k)
--> Every 2 min i get 10% of my mana???!!
- Increased Mana Retention cooldown to 120 seconds from 60, changed MP recovery amount to 9980 fixed value from 473 heal power scaling value.
i dont know if this is a good idea
normal healers should have around 1kk mana so this skill would only provide 10% mana (10s x 10k fixed mana = 100k)
--> Every 2 min i get 10% of my mana???!!
No, it’s fine! It’s another five stacks of Camellia Flower. Healers should help each other 😂
- Increased Mana Retention cooldown to 120 seconds from 60, changed MP recovery amount to 9980 fixed value from 473 heal power scaling value.
i dont know if this is a good idea
normal healers should have around 1kk mana so this skill would only provide 10% mana (10s x 10k fixed mana = 100k)
--> Every 2 min i get 10% of my mana???!!
I guess it's not supposed to be for healers (more wisdom = more manaregeneration), it is balance scaling for mana reg for dps I guess
- Increased Mana Retention cooldown to 120 seconds from 60, changed MP recovery amount to 9980 fixed value from 473 heal power scaling value.
i dont know if this is a good idea
normal healers should have around 1kk mana so this skill would only provide 10% mana (10s x 10k fixed mana = 100k)
--> Every 2 min i get 10% of my mana???!!
Use a phirius pot... we dps do it too... If that isn't enough, use magical fruit paste - 25% less mana consumption
Display More
- Increased Mana Retention cooldown to 120 seconds from 60, changed MP recovery amount to 9980 fixed value from 473 heal power scaling value.
i dont know if this is a good idea
normal healers should have around 1kk mana so this skill would only provide 10% mana (10s x 10k fixed mana = 100k)
--> Every 2 min i get 10% of my mana???!!
Use a phirius pot... we dps do it too... If that isn't enough, use magical fruit paste - 25% less mana consumption
I thought healer has 1kk mana to not lose it as fast as dps.
Use a phirius pot... we dps do it too... If that isn't enough, use magical fruit paste - 25% less mana consumption
I thought healer has 1kk mana to not lose it as fast as dps.
You thought wrong. Heals have as much mana as a byproduct from wisdom. If you keep on spamming skills that take your mana like nothing good, yeah, no worries you're going oom. Priest heals better w/o the level 98 ISS anyway.
I thought healer has 1kk mana to not lose it as fast as dps.
You thought wrong. Heals have as much mana as a byproduct from wisdom.
Ah of course you think better. It's not like dps has everything in kitty right? And healers don't have to focus on 12 positions on addon. Are they? So huge amount of mana is not to help them focus only on healing and supporting. Now i get your point. 98 priest ISS is strong af so it deserves to cost 35% mana. Tell me where is the point of nerfing mana retention? To not use it?
PS: Healers heals the best if they use full potential of their class including 98 priest ISS.
I don't see a problem for healers here... Back to gorge times, healers only playing druid/Warden, priest/knight and priest/warlock. Nobody complained about mana and these classes had no mana retention at all and nobody statted wisdom -> less mana regeneration.
Healers need to use buffood soon (ok, just 1 healer in group with max wisdom, if he/she plays d/p or p/d. The other one can still leach), that healers don't full leech anymore
It's bad for ppl who didnt stat full wisdom for more HP/def. They "need" to restat everything, which is kinda bad, because the whole utility of wisdom is not only coupled to heal amount, but also for buffing the raid.
The idea is very great in my opinion, but it is like a mage change where wisdom is giving 2 matk. That would be a big shitstorm here
Hp buff
20% of healer wisdom
A normal heal has around 200k wis so 40k hp for everyone?
A dps with 500k Life got with old buff 10% when im right so 50k
So everyone gets less Life? Not even think about tanks
And second thing
Wouldnt be a p/s and a d/s one of the best buff classes because of crossbow full of wisdom?
The idea is good but im not really sure if thats the solution
You thought wrong. Heals have as much mana as a byproduct from wisdom.
Ah of course you think better. It's not like dps has everything in kitty right? And healers don't have to focus on 12 positions on addon. Are they? So huge amount of mana is not to help them focus only on healing and supporting. Now i get your point. 98 priest ISS is strong af so it deserves to cost 35% mana. Tell me where is the point of nerfing mana retention? To not use it?
PS: Healers heals the best if they use full potential of their class including 98 priest ISS.
I've played heal for a while now. Never had mana issues. You have options and healing is entirely too easy. I've healed rofl solo in t8, badly statted heal gear.
Yeah, healers heal better if they use all their options, but the ISS is just an excuse for laziness. Sucks lots of mana and heals just enough to be good.
Using a heal addon makes healing insanely easy, to a point where most healers don't have their interface nearly as full - Come on. You gotta pot once every 30 seconds now or keep up magical paste every two minutes. It's not that hard. If anything, it evens the scale. I'm really, really happy with the changes. Adjust your playstyle. DPS do it once every week.
To your question: I figure the nerf to mana retention is there to reduce the amount of support these classes give. They're by far the easiest to play and have the strongest forms of support - something that cannot happen if you ever want to see any other class than that again. I see the logic: keep the heal unchanged so there is an easy class for newbies to pick up but remove much of the support so there is a way up.
The very best heals shouldn't be the easiest.
Display MoreHp buff
20% of healer wisdom
A normal heal has around 200k wis so 40k hp for everyone?
A dps with 500k Life got with old buff 10% when im right so 50k
So everyone gets less Life? Not even think about tanks
And second thing
Wouldnt be a p/s and a d/s one of the best buff classes because of crossbow full of wisdom?
The idea is good but im not really sure if thats the solution
Not everyone gets less life, because I think HP buffs will buff the 40k HP a bit. But normally nearly none class used hp food. Tanks will get way less, but if you need HP you can use HP potion with 25% 
I don't see a problem with HP
P/s and d/s don't have most wisdom btw, if they don't change wisdom buffs of specific class combinations
Greetings
've played heal for a while now. Never had mana issues. You have options and healing is entirely too easy. I've healed rofl solo in t8, badly statted heal gear
I’ve healed solo rofl with t8 gorge eq so now does it mean my opinion is better than yours?
Yeah, healers heal better if they use all their options, but the ISS is just an excuse for laziness. Sucks lots of mana and heals just enough to be good.
Who said that anyone use this ISS when it’s available?
Using a heal addon makes healing insanely easy, to a point where most healers don't have their interface nearly as full - Come on. You gotta pot once every 30 seconds now or keep up magical paste every two minutes. It's not that hard. If anything, it evens the scale. I'm really, really happy with the changes. Adjust your playstyle. DPS do it once every week.
It’s not making healing insanely easy, healing is easy because endgame inis aren’t any challange. One rofl run takes 40 mins. What playstyle are you talking about? Running through the ini? Come on. DPS doesn’t change playstyle but only kittycombo.
To your question: I figure the nerf to mana retention is there to reduce the amount of support these classes give. They're by far the easiest to play and have the strongest forms of support - something that cannot happen if you ever want to see any other class than that again. I see the logic: keep the heal unchanged so there is an easy class for newbies to pick up but remove much of the support so there is a way up
Ok but still there is better solution to reduce mana support from p/d, Mana Retention could restore 10% mana per 2s for 10s and that’s it. 50% mana for everyone would be fair enough.
Pls stop telling ppl who is better or worse as long as kitty is available. And „adjust your playstyle” shows your lack of arguments in every discussion you use this sentence.
Ok but still there is better solution to reduce mana support from p/d, Mana Retention could restore 10% mana per 2s for 10s and that’s it. 50% mana for everyone would be fair enough.
Pls stop telling ppl who is better or worse as long as kitty is available. And „adjust your playstyle” shows your lack of arguments in every discussion you use this sentence.
I think my sternliness is being misunderstood as hostility. It is not. I'm just presenting options on how to manage these issues coming up. This is why I tell others that they just need to adjust their playstyle. Adjust what you're doing and you'll see yourself having a lot more success. I do not see the issue and the issue won't come up for me again - I'll just take phirius potions if I need.
Your argument is literally "I don't want to use potions to sustain my mana" when that's exactly what they're targeting. Here's your challenge that you want: Managing your resources. It's the only challenge healers are presented with now. It's not the end all be all, but it's a good start.
In addition: I used my status as solohealing rofl in shit gear to demonstrate how stupidly easily healing is, not to put others down. There are much better healers than me. There are also worse. I do not mean to put anyone down, I am making a point on the fact that, as you said, there is no challenge for healers.
I think my sternliness is being misunderstood as hostility. It is not. I'm just presenting options on how to manage these issues coming up. This is why I tell others that they just need to adjust their playstyle. Adjust what you're doing and you'll see yourself having a lot more success. I do not see the issue and the issue won't come up for me again - I'll just take phirius potions if I need
It’s easier for everyone to click one potion and get 60% mana but where was the difference between potion and skill? The difference was Mana Retention gave 500-600k mana for everyone every 60 seconds and i agree that was op because DPS had full mana for 10 seconds but healer not if he used too much skills that costs percentage mana but changing it to give flat 50k mana isn’t a solution. The most fair solution is to change skill to give percentage mana (50%) every 60-120s. To be clear i don’t spend so much mana to use Mana Retention and potion in the same time but should the skill gives sufficient amount of mana only for DPS classes? That’s why this nerf is too big. Changing it to be percentage skill would make it to be adjusted.
Your argument is literally "I don't want to use potions to sustain my mana" when that's exactly what they're targeting. Here's your challenge that you want: Managing your resources. It's the only challenge healers are presented with now. It's not the end all be all, but it's a good start
It’s completely not because using potion which regen your mana instantly is more comfortable. The only think i don’t want is to not change this skill to be useless and forgotten.
In addition: I used my status as solohealing rofl in shit gear to demonstrate how stupidly easily healing is, not to put others down. There are much better healers than me. There are also worse. I do not mean to put anyone down, I am making a point on the fact that, as you said, there is no challenge for healers
The fact is you can skip inis by buffing your DPS and it’s the only reason you don’t have to heal so much. If you don’t want put anyone down just stop using passive-aggressive language like „adjust your playstyle” because who are you to judge ppls’ playstyle.
I could say worse DPS use kitty and worse healers spend more mana so does it mean kitty should be removed just like amount of mana for healers from Mana Retention?
In addition: I used my status as solohealing rofl in shit gear to demonstrate how stupidly easily healing is, not to put others down. There are much better healers than me. There are also worse. I do not mean to put anyone down, I am making a point on the fact that, as you said, there is no challenge for healers
The fact is you can skip inis by buffing your DPS and it’s the only reason you don’t have to heal so much. If you don’t want put anyone down just stop using passive-aggressive language like „adjust your playstyle” because who are you to judge ppls’ playstyle.
I could say worse DPS use kitty and worse healers spend more mana so does it mean kitty should be removed just like amount of mana for healers from Mana Retention?
I am literally not judging your playstyle, stop pretending I am. What I am doing is telling you that the nerf to the semi-afk priest playstyle is
as the combination of p/d was entirely too easy. It was a literal no brainer - now it's a no-brainer with a cost attached to it.
Without the, as you admit yourself, overpowered mana retention you'll run out of mana while spamming a 35% mana skill. Thats how it should be.
In all other cases you can still do as every other combination under the sun here has to: take a magical fruit paste and cut those 35% to 26,25% and all your other costs in the process too. If the costs are still too much, take a pot.
It'll still be the easiest healer, the average DPS will still feel the skill. All the mana heavy pDPS do not come above 100k mana and magical dps do not throw their mana around nearly as much as other classes. This alone will keep the skill pretty relevant.
All the mana heavy pDPS do not come above 100k mana and magical dps do not throw their mana around nearly as much as other classes. This alone will keep the skill pretty relevant.
both statements are not correct. some pdps come above 100k mana and there are even mana based mdps classes, which need to spam percentage mana based skills to do dps.
Greetings
All the mana heavy pDPS do not come above 100k mana and magical dps do not throw their mana around nearly as much as other classes. This alone will keep the skill pretty relevant.
both statements are not correct. some pdps come above 100k mana and there are even mana based mdps classes, which need to spam percentage mana based skills to do dps.
Greetings
Really? I've played a ton of ch/wd which spams their skill (in trash), 5% each - mana hasn't been much of an issue, even without potting. Please enlighten me on those classes then, lol. I may be wrong.
both statements are not correct. some pdps come above 100k mana and there are even mana based mdps classes, which need to spam percentage mana based skills to do dps.
Greetings
Really? I've played a ton of ch/wd which spams their skill (in trash), 5% each - mana hasn't been much of an issue, even without potting. Please enlighten me on those classes then, lol. I may be wrong.
Yes really. Play warrior/mage or rogue/priest. These classes have mana based spammable skills.
For those, who don't know the ch/wrd, the mana based 5% skill has 15 sec CD and is not spammable. In other words, you need ~ 0,33% mana per second, where other classes can use up to 5-6% per second.
Enlightened Greetings
Really? I've played a ton of ch/wd which spams their skill (in trash), 5% each - mana hasn't been much of an issue, even without potting. Please enlighten me on those classes then, lol. I may be wrong.
Yes really. Play warrior/mage or rogue/priest. These classes have mana based spammable skills.
For those, who don't know the ch/wrd, the mana based 5% skill has 15 sec CD and is not spammable. In other words, you need ~ 0,33% mana per second, where other classes can use up to 5-6% per second.
Enlightened Greetings
Hmmm not sure what you guys are talking about now or which points anyone is trying to make... 
But i've tested the warrior/mage a lot lately and a warrior/mage sometimes need to use some mana potion now and then.
I use those Phirius ones and in full rofl runs i never need more then 2-4 pots and it never happened that I needed the next pot when it was still on cooldown.
Personaly I think it is cool that resource managing is part of the game, otherwise they should delete mana from the game.
But lets just wait and see how the healer changes will be after they are implemented.
It probably wont be perfect (yet) but I think it still will be awesome. 
Display MoreYes really. Play warrior/mage or rogue/priest. These classes have mana based spammable skills.
For those, who don't know the ch/wrd, the mana based 5% skill has 15 sec CD and is not spammable. In other words, you need ~ 0,33% mana per second, where other classes can use up to 5-6% per second.
Enlightened Greetings
Hmmm not sure what you guys are talking about now or which points anyone is trying to make...
But i've tested the warrior/mage a lot lately and a warrior/mage sometimes need to use some mana potion now and then.
I use those Phirius ones and in full rofl runs i never need more then 2-4 pots and it never happened that I needed the next pot when it was still on cooldown.
Personaly I think it is cool that resource managing is part of the game, otherwise they should delete mana from the game.
But lets just wait and see how the healer changes will be after they are implemented.
It probably wont be perfect (yet) but I think it still will be awesome.
The point is, that there are classes, which needs a lot of mana.
Example r/p: In trash phases (or better in situations where you have minimum 2 targets around) you need to use 5% manaskill for maximum dmg output. that results in 60% mana in 12 seconds, which cannot be catched by phirius potions and maybe not anymore by healers.
I don't know how the mana change for r/p will change anything, but in rofl right now, the mobs don't have any mana, so the change of "stealing mana, if target has mana" is kinda joke for r/p in PvE xD and you need to rely on mana support classes
