Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Scout/Mage "Incineration"

Is it intended that you need combat for bosses and worldbosses in order for this skill to work, like on Knight/Mage? Because this skill is working like that so maybe its a bug or just a missing information in the patch notes.

Want to report a bug which honestly idk if it was always there.

D/WL.

The combo of this class is Toxic Arrow (3x stacks) and Nature's Poison. I just found out that the first stack of the toxic arrow isn't increasing the dmg of Nature poison, only the last 2 stacks do it.

Some points to make the warden/rouge 1h more viable, Rouge general skill: Off hand Training id:490146 pls lower the offhand dmg reduction to 20% from 30%. Warden primary skills: Power of the oak id:493347 pls make this skill usable with 1h weapons too. This class is on a good way to play with 1h weapons, but still behind the 2h version. Pls try those changes and let’s see if it’s better than or to strong.

Quote from Blaxx

Rouge general skill: Off hand Training id:490146 pls lower the offhand dmg reduction to 20% from 30%.

That would bring rogue classes like /mage or /warrior more than warden/rogue. Then you should rather increase the percentage of Broken Asymmetry.

Quote from Blaxx

Warden primary skills: Power of the oak id:493347 pls make this skill usable with 1h weapons too.

Agree.

The oak-walker makes a sepal stab (id494602) with every critical hit from charged chop (id494581). My question is whether this can/should also be triggered by the second hit of the offhand?

Kind regards

Scout/Mage (mdps):

I tested this class once today, meaning I made a ton of mistakes, and still none of the other dps (wl/ch and wd/s) stood a chance. This class has everything a Scout has (strong single target burst) but in addition has also a strong aoe and sustain damage which results in this class overperforming quite a bit (in my opinion).

Greetings.

I also played S/M today, in gorge and rofl (only rofl matters here but was also interesting how good it was in gorge too).

So yea, single target is quite fine, but AoE is like:

(video not listed)

Is that intended?

i still think it's a good idea

About Scout/Mage

(PDD)

From my/our Inital Tests the overall Dmg of the PDD Version seems to be ok .Really Good Burst Aoe dmg , good aoe sustain but therefore singletarget okay-ish. Maybe other PDD Scout/Mages can comment also how they feel about this class.

For the MDD Version i can only say what i saw , maybe the Washing Detergent(:D) will comment specifically for the MDD Version.

As Zyrex / Laisha allready wrote , the MDD Counterpart seems to be overperforming by alot .

As i see that the Aoe allready is planned to be nerfed , maybe also reduce the DMG of the MDD Joint Blow as it is in burst too strong ( does around the same dmg as a PDD Snipe , pretty good for a 2s instant )

Greetings

Quote from Cruvor

As i see that the Aoe allready is planned to be nerfed , maybe also reduce the DMG of the MDD Joint Blow as it is in burst too strong ( does around the same dmg as a PDD Snipe , pretty good for a 2s instant )

It already is nerfed, not planned to (at least in custom zones)

Quote from Cruvor

T12 Statted MDD Xbow vs t14 PDD Xbow).

That is not a good comparison. Mdps xbow is like idk 20% or 30% of total mdmg? Would need to do the math. Most of it come from staff and I imagine you are talking about Persil, that's t17 vs t14

Quote

Hello you fluffy players from COA Aka here.

After the patch for warden rouge came out, I noticed something. In my eyes, the damage in the trash is very weak, that could be because the skill: "Second weapon training" is relatively weak. The skill: "Broken Assymmetry" doesn't help much to push it. In my opinion, the class needs a little damage buff. In addition, I think the following skill should not only increase the two-handed weapon damage but also the one-handed weapon damage in the Warden / Rouge and also in the Warden / Druid: "Power of the Oak". So I think the classes would be able to keep up with others too :).

Greetings Aka

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Quote from Madox

Quote from Cruvor

T12 Statted MDD Xbow vs t14 PDD Xbow).

That is not a good comparison. Mdps xbow is like idk 20% or 30% of total mdmg? Would need to do the math. Most of it come from staff and I imagine you are talking about Persil, that's t17 vs t14

Ah yes i forgot about that you can wear a 2h Staff and that also counts in not like traditional scout silly me

Thanks for pointing that out

After the aoe adjustments of Scout/mage (mdps).

I haven't tested it yet but I think that the nerf of Incineration in both frequency AND damage is a bit much. This skill was too strong, yes, but now not only does this skill deal 25% less damage, but it also hits 56% less often. This in combination with the 25% damage nerf of "The Inferno" could be enough that you changed the aoe damage from "too strong" to "non existent". I honestly don't understand why you can't just adjust frequency OR damage, and if thats not enough then you can adjust the other. This way you could adjust a skill controlled and not "harakiri- let's use a sledgehammer method and see if its useless or not afterwards".

Anyway as I said these are just my initial thoughts. I'll test it later today.

Greetings.

Scout/Mage.

Thank you for only changing one parameter! After running today I think the aoe dmaage is fine with the 25% nerf. I still think the class overall is still a bit too strong because of its sustain damage, in name "Joint Blow". If you consider that you can spam this skill quite a while with attack speed and it deals without much support 30-40kk hits maybe you should reduce its damage. WIth that maybe this class would be fine (all mdps ofc, I cant speek for pdps).

Greetings.

Hello World....

After a couple of runs as wL/R and wL/W...

I think the nerf of "punishment" Was a little bit to high and would be great if you could Do the basedmg a bit higher oder the boost from elementar weakness from 16 to 25-30%.....

And the basedmg of "consistent heart strike" AT the wl/w ist the same... Your Main dmg skill but even to low to get up with other dps

Greetings

hi i would like to suggest that you can change scout lvl 99 iss?

maybe instead change to give 10% ranged weapon dmg with 90 sec cd ?

cheers

Greetings,

Couple things regarding Wl/P:
I was playing this class from time to time in the past weeks and, in my opinion, this class and it's elite skill are somewhat confusing. You have elite skills for healing, some for supporting and even some for doing damage.

And in my opinion this class can't do anything of it good enough to make it viable at the current moment.

Healing:
Overall the healing output is a bit low comparing to other healing combinations.
The Skill "Divine Assistance" ID: 498668 gives you 16% mdmg and healing. But that's pretty much it what you get.
The 12% increased healing you can get from Psychic Arrows is quite ok. But considering you have to stop healing to do a maybe 1s cast in trash to get the buff makes it for me redundant to use.
At the same time you could get the buff with Rising Tide and it's an instant which would make up for it. But for getting the buff with Rising Tide you have to land a critical hit which is for healers a more or less gambling considering you don't have this much critical hit rate as a heal.
At the same time the skill "Great Salvation" ID: 499858 doesn't work properly as it should be.
I tested it with a guild mate and he had 3 different negative effects on him but the healing amount got not increased. It stayed the same as with 0 negative effects. Simultaneously you are not restoring HP to the caster too.
Furthermore the aoe skill "Ring of Comfort" ID: 498641 is doing a good amount of healing. The only thing that feels kinda squishy about the skill is that is has a ~3s animation and the healing numbers only appear at the end of the animation but the healing is happening instant. For me it made it feel like that sometimes there where no healing at all coming from this skill.

Looking at the Support:
You have your "Regenerate" ID: 1490339 which gives 10% int and wis which is a nice support for mdd's and heal.
"Soul Englightenment" ID: 498649 is also a quite good support. You can almost permanent give your group 51% more HP which makes the dps in trash more steadfast but that's pretty much all of the good support looking at the elite skills..
The stronger "Defense Net" ID: 498777 which gives 10% pdef additionally is obsolete in my opinion because tanks have enough pdef already. Heals are able stand mobs hits quite easily and even at least 1 boss hit they could tank so therefore they won't really need it. And using it on dps... Well the 10% won't make much of a difference^^

The skill "Spreading Pain" ID: 499856 got for supporting pretty much useless since the changes of the Wl/R where he doesn't take any profit anymore from debuffs from other warlocks in the group.

The Elite Skills for Damage:
(Note: Since I don't play mdps at all I was consulting it with a guildmate and based my opinion mostly on his experience)
You actually have 2 Elite skills which affect your damage.

1st: "Spreading Pain": You can get permanently 25% crit damage and 18% matk. The permanent matk gain should be quite nice.
On the other hand the 2nd skill "Touch of Faith" ID: 498662 is the complete opposite to the 1st one. At level 104 the skill has a base damage of 29.8 + 0.01 x Int as a DoT. I think everyone reading this should instantly know that this is nothing at all^^
It can reset your Rising Tide cooldown and with every DoT hit there is a chance to let your Psychic Arrows be an instant so maybe this could be use to fill in a gap between using other skills? Maybe someone else has tried once the Wl/P as a dps and give his opinion to it. Consulting it with my guildmate: we came to the conclusion that this class is not viable at all as a dps.

Overall I have to say that this class tries to be something like a hybrid but unfortunately, in my opinion, it can do pretty much close to nothing other than a quite good support. But since there are a lot support classes out nowadays they would get picked first because they can support better and are more viable.
I think this class balancing should be here to make all classes fun to play and make them viable in somewhat way. But this class is one of the kind which is not viable at all looking at the competition between supports/heals and having a mixture of every category in elite skills makes it not very pleasant and fun to play either.

In my opinion this class would need an almost complete rework in some elite skills to actually make it viable for using it in a group.
Maybe making a Warlock that is using Physical Dark Damage

King Regards

Scout/Mage pdps

seems a bit overperformnig even with t11 weapon. I guess same like mdps.

AOE burst is the strongest I ever saw.

Also the single target burst is maybe the strongest of all scouts.

Greetings

Quote from Cruvor

(PDD)

From my/our Inital Tests the overall Dmg of the PDD Version seems to be ok .Really Good Burst Aoe dmg , good aoe sustain but therefore singletarget okay-ish. Maybe other PDD Scout/Mages can comment also how they feel about this class.

Quote from xLutinex

Scout/Mage pdps

seems a bit overperformnig even with t11 weapon. I guess same like mdps.

AOE burst is the strongest I ever saw.

Also the single target burst is maybe the strongest of all scouts.

Greetings

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I had the chance to test and compare a bit more / get to know and play the Class better (PDD version) and i think i have to revoke my original inital test statement .

As Lutine allready said the Aoe Burst is by far the strongest of all Scouts (possibly even all classes).

Same goes for the Singletarget burst , also reallyy strong atleast on-par with the /warden or slighty stronger.

Overall the major damage (~30-35%) comes from Incineration so for nerfing the class i would begin to reduce the dmg there too maybe ~140% for the PDD to start with and see how it goes.

Another option that would affect single and aoe burst would be to reduce the 20% Fire damage you gain from Inevitable Ignition to 10/15%.

Greetings

Regarding Warrior/Champ:

I would prefer to set the cooldown of Vendetta Blow back to 3 seconds to keep up with other classes. In addition, the cooldown was already a few patches ago to 3 seconds and the class has been perfect to play. Smoother Rota and in my opinion the best warrior to play at this point. I would be happy about such a change, because even in single target damage and overall damage this change should be fine.

Greetings

Quote from Ryzek

Regarding Warrior/Champ:

I would prefer to set the cooldown of Vendetta Blow back to 3 seconds to keep up with other classes. In addition, the cooldown was already a few patches ago to 3 seconds and the class has been perfect to play. Smoother Rota and in my opinion the best warrior to play at this point. I would be happy about such a change, because even in single target damage and overall damage this change should be fine.

Greetings

imo this class have sustain same as some other good chains, or maybe a bit more than champs (idk about chwl) but its aoe burst feels a bit low to me (assuming you don't have 5-6 support in party, in that case most likely every class is equal since everything is oneshotting everything xD) compared to w/s, w/r, r/ch, r/w, r/m... and various other class ive played in last 2-3 weeks which is the weakness of wch and im not sure if reducing cd of vendetta blow back to 3s would fix this, unless im missing something about the class

Quote from espar91

Quote from Ryzek

Regarding Warrior/Champ:

I would prefer to set the cooldown of Vendetta Blow back to 3 seconds to keep up with other classes. In addition, the cooldown was already a few patches ago to 3 seconds and the class has been perfect to play. Smoother Rota and in my opinion the best warrior to play at this point. I would be happy about such a change, because even in single target damage and overall damage this change should be fine.

Greetings

imo this class have sustain same as some other good chains, or maybe a bit more than champs (idk about chwl) but its aoe burst feels a bit low to me (assuming you don't have 5-6 support in party, in that case most likely every class is equal since everything is oneshotting everything xD) compared to w/s, w/r, r/ch, r/w, r/m... and various other class ive played in last 2-3 weeks which is the weakness of wch and im not sure if reducing cd of vendetta blow back to 3s would fix this, unless im missing something about the class

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In no case is the AOE damage low, especially in large trash groups the class can shine, if you know how to position yourself. I calculated how much more damage the reduce from 4 seconds too 3 seconds would make (rofl overall). The skill would make ~30% more in relation to the entire Ini and that would be a fair change related to internal runs

To be honest, I could compare this class with all chain classes and some MDPs(mostly warlock) last 2 weeks and since I can say with a clear conscience that it would be helpful to be able to keep up again. In addition, one should not only compare the class with other pdps classes, but in relation to all classes that are viable at the moment(at least that's my view). In any case, I can recommend the class and maybe you notice yourself that the change might be justified.

Greetings

W/M

The class has literally nothing aside from a little bit of burst dmg. The offburst is abbysmal compared to other classes, the aoe is one of the worst i have ever seen for one the highest mana costs i have ever seen.

At the moment there is zero insentive to play the class unless you want to troll your guild mates and want to play some warmage for the good old times sake.

~kind regards Noodlez

Wl/Ch

One thing i dont like about this class:
"Rage Sublimation" cost 100 rage. When do you use it? In offburst situation where you dont have Dwarven Ale ready. But in offburst you keep Energy Influx Strike on cd.
Also "Mind Transference" from Wl/W costs only 50 rage.

Suggestion: Reduce "Rage Sublimation" cost to at least 75 rage, 50 would be better.

Best regards,
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