Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from Mazzi
    • Increased Dark Soul Assail dark damage increment to 54%.
    • Reduced Soul Agility duration to 30 seconds, increased cooldown to 90 seconds, increased dark damage increment to 54%.

    In my opinion wrong idea, increased dark damage is to low (maybe 75% and cooldown 60 s willl be better :) good for single target poor for trash :D


    Ps Now looks like i will be do more dps on ChR in my leather eq than any Rouge xd

    Take me one time in rofl. I want to see your ChR damage in compare with my rogue :)

    I don't think you will do a lot dmg with dex statted gear as champ

    Druid/warlock: First of all thx for this new damage reduction, will need to test if is enough to survive tho :P


    A few things that should be changed. Before I can properly test in rofl, so idk how dmg will be.

    1. Sandstorm, is still bugged and require 5 nature points per use instead of 1. Please fix this.

    3. Sandstorm doesn't have dmg reduction after every mob so if previous point gets fixed and skill is too op, will need to add nerf like rest of dps have on their aoes.

    4. Surge of Malice from warlock isn't included as poison dmg like s/wl have (for example), it probably should be included.

    5. Body vitalization, in case the class needs more sustain, change this skill to 30s and 60s cd (like most of similar skills in game) can help fixing it.

    6. Combo toxic arrow + nature's poison should be changed from stacks into a target to stacks on us. Seriously, cast 4 stacks on a mob will be impossible :(


    Btw im glad nature points now properly give dmg as it should, thx for that fix.

    Time to test!


    Edit: Now that i think deeper into this while doing a proper kitty, the burst on this class can't never work. The only 3s cast skills are toxic arrow (remove nature point) and nature's poison (restore max 3 nature point, 6s cd). So, without even considering how the dmg is, we will need to spam 2s casts most of our burst because we can't use 3s casts. Unless Ale potion restore nature points aswell, this design won't work in any burst.

    I don't understand the reason behind the change with Rogue/Warlock.


    I've played all the rogue classes since class rebalancing*, and while I agree Rogue/Warlock had better sustain dps than most others (roughly tied with r/wd, but no mana management), this was balanced by the fact that Rogue/Warlock has almost no AOEs. Its only AOE is Ghostly Strike which can hit 3 targets every 4 seconds.


    Second, its damage for Shadowstab / Low Blow / Wound Attack has already been lowered to account for the permanent increase to dark damage and passive pattack buff. That wasn't touched here, making Rogue/Mage significantly better by every comparison (1s CD AOE, 50% fire dmg buff with 60s CD, no nerf to ss/lb/wa dmg). The only potential downside is that r/m doesn't get warp charge, but that's available to all classes through wl/m anyways (please don't get any funny ideas...).


    I haven't tested R/Wd since this change, but before it I was able to match my R/Wl dps by weaving Charged Chop with my other skills (without warp charge).This change just makes R/Wd that much better than the next best, further invalidating any investment into leather gear vs chain.


    Please reconsider the changes to Rogue/Warlock


    ---


    Separately, can we please get more staff interaction regarding class changes? I noticed Byte used to respond here to feedback, but that seems to have stopped. I think that would go a long way to understanding the reason for the changes being made.


    Thanks,

    Ravinous

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Mazzi
    • Increased Dark Soul Assail dark damage increment to 54%.
    • Reduced Soul Agility duration to 30 seconds, increased cooldown to 90 seconds, increased dark damage increment to 54%.

    In my opinion wrong idea, increased dark damage is to low (maybe 75% and cooldown 60 s willl be better :) good for single target poor for trash :D


    Ps Now looks like i will be do more dps on ChR in my leather eq than any Rouge xd

    Take me one time in rofl. I want to see your ChR damage in compare with my rogue :)

    I don't think you will do a lot dmg with dex statted gear as champ

    was xd

    sarcasm ;)

    Rogue is my favorite primary class by far, so here's some thoughts I've been gathering on it since we're on the topic:

    Rogue (overall):
    - Combo Throw: Consider changing this from 2 -> 4 hits with a 4 -> 6s CD. 2 hits ends up being pretty useless for the cast time compared to just white hitting. To compensate on Rogue/Mage, reduce CD of skill to 3-4s.

    Rogue/Scout:
    Overall: Currently I feel like this class underperforms compared to other rogues when Energy Thief is on CD. I suggest one of two changes to address that:
    - Energy Thief (Idea 1): Reduce CD from 2 minutes -> 60s. This brings the CD more in line with elite CDs from other classes.
    - Energy Thief (Idea 2): Make this a 900s buff, but reduce energy gain from 20 -> 6-8. This would allow for quite a bit of playstyle diversity -- do you cap your attack speed with all buffs to maximize burn dps? Or do you spread out attack speed buffs to keep higher sustain? Similarly, how much do you choose to weave scout primaries like Shot and Joint Blow? This is my preferred choice, but the energy gain value must be tuned carefully.
    - Combat Master: If Energy Thief is made into a non-CD buff, consider lowering crit damage bonus to 50-55%.

    Rogue/Knight
    - Poisonous Protection: This skill feels very underwhelming. Maybe it can be changed to something that allowed the class to use Shield of Discipline.
    - Courageous Guard: 10s duration feels a bit too short for the 60s CD. I recommend increasing duration to 20s.
    - Illegal Punishment: The damage modifier it mentions for Dex doesn't seem to be increasing the damage by much. Also, Punishment damage feels low compared to Holy Strike at 4 stacks -- I'd recommend making this skill increase the damage of Punishment as well.


    Rogue/Mage

    - Enlivened Blade: Remove damage reduction per mob hit. Almost all mage skills decimate rogue/mage's AOE ability due to no damage drop off per additional mobs hit. Some mobs in Tikal when grouped up took as little as 12k damage per proc, when equivalent mages did 500k+.


    Rogue/Warden
    - Wood Spirit's Grasp: I feel like the increased damage for Power of the Wood Spirit from this elite makes R/Wd too good at both single-target and aoe. I'd recommend removing the increased damage for Power of the Wood Spirit.

    - "Chain Mastery": Remove or change this completely. Leather classes need more class identity, and giving one of the most powerful rogues to chain users as well makes that difficult.


    Rogue/Priest

    - Kick: Decrease MP cost from %-based to the same as Charged Chop.
    - Holy Surge: Decrease MP cost from %-based to the same as Power of the Wood Spirit.
    - Slowing Poison: Remove 'Poison Bottle' cost from skill, or require 'Poisonous' buff instead, or allow Poison Bottle to stack to 1000. Preferably just change it to require 'Poisonous' buff though.
    - Demonstration of Evil: Add 20-30% water damage increase to this elite -- right now there's no reason to choose Rogue/Priest over Rogue/Warden.


    Rogue/Druid

    - Hysteric Vengeance: Increase (double?) the Patt bonus from this skill to make it more competitive with other rogue elites.
    - Killin' Time: Increase the physical critical damage to 75-85% -- r/s already gets a (basically) passive 100% weapon damage boost from blood arrow and permanent uptime 65.5% crit damage from combat master.
    - Slaughterer Blessing: 60s CD for a ~10% heal and 15s physical attack buff feels too long. Please consider reducing CD to 30s.
    - Poison Shroud: Remove the 'Poison Bottle' requirement, or allow them to stack to 1000. Preferably remove the requirement though and just require a 'Poisoned' state.

    Rogue/Champion
    - Remodeled Assassin: This elite felt underwhelming when bringing Assassin's Rage to a 4min CD. I'd recommend adjusting the CD down to 3 minutes.
    - Silent Rune Bomb: This skill really sucks to place with a 4s CD and its relatively low damage. Most of the time it feels like more damage just to spam electrocute unless there are more than 4-5 mobs. Consider making this a skill that has a 1s CD with a slight reduction to damage.
    - Pulse Rune Bomb: With the above change, I think Pulse Rune Bomb CD should be reduced to between 4-6s and its damage reduced accordingly as well.

    Best,
    Ravinous

    Quote from Ravinous

    Rogue/Knight
    - Poisonous Protection: This skill feels very underwhelming. Maybe it can be changed to something that allowed the class to use Shield of Discipline.

    Best,
    Ravinous

    Good ideas!

    But in my opinion the rogue shouldn't be able to use Shield of Discipline. That would be a PvP horror in combination with Strike of Punishment


    Kind regards

    druid/knight


    Punishment now heals in a range of 180, although tooltip says that it is only supposed to heal within 100 range from the target, independent of where the caster is.:/

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Like 1
    • Official Post
    Quote from melodic

    druid/knight


    Punishment now heals in a range of 180, although tooltip says that it is only supposed to heal within 100 range from the target, independent of where the caster is.:/

    This is a known issue for all kind of raid effects applied on a target, caster always getting effect no matter at which distance for now and will be fixed as soon as possible, however, raid heal should work as it is supposed to be so only within 100 radius.


    Greetings

    I too wish that staff would be more interactive here on forum about balancing skills. For now it looks that all suggestions are ignored.

    First of all, I'd like to say that Rogue is my favorite class and I'd like to thank you for the idea of balancing. I'd like for all classes to have some advantages unique to them so that we can see those classes being played more often. Though I'm well aware it would take awhile to implement this kind of change to the game. With that being said I really don't like the idea of a class, Rogue to be more precise, having one too OP(R/WD) class combo and relatively so-so few other class combos. R/WL was relatively a good alternative to R/WD but now it's just R/WD and R/WD is kind of optimized for chain. Compared to the leather wearing combos there are already quite a few chain combos. Of course you can always play with leather armor but to be honest it'd be quite disappointing to play only /good/ Rogue class combo that's optimized for chain with leather. Please bring more balance into rogue class combos. Because as it is right now it seems Rogue players with leather gears seem to have a few choices. Either start playing scout or just stick with R/Wd with leather.


    I also fully agree with Ravinious. Leather wearing classes need more identity. We are /especially/ lacking that in rogue. When there are already so few class combos for leather wearing rogues that perform decently, nerfing one badly seems quite bad in taste.


    Best Regards.

    I heeard Dev Bytte is responsible for class balannse( if that not true true my apologisses)
    ...

    In my opinion he did the most biggest misteke in this game chenagesd char balance (R/WL)

    I have been playing on gobal server last 10 years, peaple seeing this server is better (managment is listening peeople)

    After coupless mounths i can say (soorry about my my langage) the managment it very shiet...


    I think i weesed my money for this server and i will never donate thiss

    Changes for r/wl did not test i my opinion it was one of more mistakes of this managment ( moor classes are moor stronges (dps) on trasch and bosses)


    I have hope the supremu authority will be moor carefully for uninentional changes and make not unhappy players

    I am not offensive to somebody it is only my opinion about changes R/WL (weest maney)

    I woud like to wisch everybody Marry Christmast <3

    Quote from North

    First of all, I'd like to say that Rogue is my favorite class and I'd like to thank you for the idea of balancing. I'd like for all classes to have some advantages unique to them so that we can see those classes being played more often. Though I'm well aware it would take awhile to implement this kind of change to the game. With that being said I really don't like the idea of a class, Rogue to be more precise, having one too OP(R/WD) class combo and relatively so-so few other class combos. R/WL was relatively a good alternative to R/WD but now it's just R/WD and R/WD is kind of optimized for chain. Compared to the leather wearing combos there are already quite a few chain combos. Of course you can always play with leather armor but to be honest it'd be quite disappointing to play only /good/ Rogue class combo that's optimized for chain with leather. Please bring more balance into rogue class combos. Because as it is right now it seems Rogue players with leather gears seem to have a few choices. Either start playing scout or just stick with R/Wd with leather.


    I also fully agree with Ravinious. Leather wearing classes need more identity. We are /especially/ lacking that in rogue. When there are already so few class combos for leather wearing rogues that perform decently, nerfing one badly seems quite bad in taste.


    Best Regards.


    Hi,


    there are more rogue combinations. Also rogue/champ is a really strong dps (single target) and way better in aoe damage than rogue/wl.

    Rogue/druid is also kinda strong because of permanent -10% def on trash and boss with 100% uptime.


    And a tip of mine. Don't play scout if you can play rogue ^^. Scout's still need 2 weapons if you want to optimize your damage


    Kind regards

    Then I´ll share my opinion on the rogue too. Unfortunately, I also have to agree that many rogue classes lack an independent identity.


    I build my feedback on Ravinous feedback so as not to name things twice.


    Rogue (overall):

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Combo Throw: Consider changing this from 2 -> 4 hits with a 4 -> 6s CD.

    Agree.

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Informer: Please adjust the critical points or cooldown or change the skill in any way. Because just under 600 critical points for 60 seconds with a cooldown of 5 minutes are pretty low compared to other buffs with a cooldown of 5 minutes.

    Still suggest this.



    Rogue/Scout:

    Quote from Ravinous

    Overall: Currently I feel like this class underperforms compared to other rogues when Energy Thief is on CD.

    True

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Energy Thief (Idea 1): Reduce CD from 2 minutes -> 60s. This brings the CD more in line with elite CDs from other classes.

    I like this idea more than the second one, but that`s a personal preference. Personally, I find short-term buffs just more interesting than long-term buffs that are simply permanently active.


    Joint Blow: The damage adjustment is nice, thanks for that. Nevertheless, the skill is only useful if you run out of energy. Which doesn´t happen too often with the raid damage and the current content (at least with our guild). Therefore I suggest removing the global CD for the skill in this class combination.


    Another idea would be to give the class an element. Currently it is the only rogue class that does no elemental damage. You would only have to see whether this would make too much damage overall, but that could then be adjusted if necessary.



    Rogue/Knight:


    Nothing to add Ravinous.

    Quote from xLutinex

    But in my opinion the rogue shouldn't be able to use Shield of Discipline. That would be a PvP horror in combination with Strike of Punishment

    This could be adjusted for PvP areas. Provided it is possible and not a lot of effort :D



    Rogue/Mage:

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Enlivened Blade: Remove damage reduction per mob hit.

    I completely support that.


    Gusting Blade Rain: In addtion, I would reduce the cd to 6 seconds.


    Another idea would be "Throw" and "Combo Throw" to cause Fire damage as well.



    Rogue/Priest:

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Kick: Decrease MP cost from %-based to the same as Charged Chop.
    - Holy Surge: Decrease MP cost from %-based to the same as Power of the Wood Spirit.

    This is not strictly necessary in my opinion. You have mana potions, buff food, which reduces mana consumption, and there are healer classes who can regenerate mana. With the right group composition, at least I had no mana problems.

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Slowing Poison: Remove 'Poison Bottle' cost from skill, or require 'Poisonous' buff instead, or allow Poison Bottle to stack to 1000. Preferably just change it to require 'Poisonous' buff though.
    - Demonstration of Evil: Add 20-30% water damage increase to this elite -- right now there's no reason to choose Rogue/Priest over Rogue/Warden.

    Agree

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Magic Barrier: Change that you get mana when you make a physical attack and not when you take damage

    Still suggest this.



    Rogue/Druid:

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Hysteric Vengeance: Increase (double?) the Patt bonus from this skill to make it more competitive with other rogue elites.

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Poison Shroud: Remove the 'Poison Bottle' requirement, or allow them to stack to 1000. Preferably remove the requirement though and just require a 'Poisoned' state.

    Agree

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Killin' Time: Increase the physical critical damage to 75-85%

    The energy cost of 45 should also be greatly reduced or changed to mana cost. 45 Energy is seldom over for a short-term buff in trash. I would suggest reducing the cost to 10 energy or to 5%? mana cost.

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Slaughterer Blessing: 60s CD for a ~10% heal and 15s physical attack buff feels too long. Please consider reducing CD to 30s.

    Personally, I would remove the healing and add a 10-15% physical damage or earth damage increase instead. The CD could be reduced to 45 seconds or the running time increased to 20-25 seconds. Healing should be reserved for the healers or supporters in my opinion :D


    Quick Light Protection: Again, I would remove the healing part and instead reduce the "Blind Spot" CD to 3 seconds.


    Earth Pulse: It is currently difficult to match multiple targets with the skill if the mobs are not in the same place and you are inside the mobs yourself. That is why it would be good if the area in which you do damage is changed or increased.



    Rogue/Champion:

    Quote from Ravinous

    - Silent Rune Bomb: This skill really sucks to place with a 4s CD and its relatively low damage. Most of the time it feels like more damage just to spam electrocute unless there are more than 4-5 mobs. Consider making this a skill that has a 1s CD with a slight reduction to damage.
    - Pulse Rune Bomb: With the above change, I think Pulse Rune Bomb CD should be reduced to between 4-6s and its damage reduced accordingly as well.

    Agree



    Rogue/Warrior:

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Death´s Touch: Instead of Elemental Accuracy, increase Posion Damage

    Still suggest this. In addition, I would reduce the CD to 4 seconds and change the cost form rage to energy.


    Poisonous Infection: The poison effect should target several targets in the vicinity. The problem right now is if you do the effect on a target and the target dies before you do a "Poisonous Explosion", the mob doesn´t get "Toxic Splash" effect and the skill doesn´t do AOE dmg. And without "Toxic Splash", "Whirlwind" doesn´t make extra AOE dmg. The AOE dmg of the class is not that good anyway and with this problem, you always have to hope that you get all the debuffs on it before the mob is dead. Which, to be honest, is as good as impossible.



    Rogue/Warlock:

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Ghostly Strike and Soul Stab: Please remove the damage from up to three targets and increase the damage to 600% for Ghostly Strike and Soul Stab without Psychic Weakness and to 750% for Soul Stab with Psychic Weakness. The "area damage" on the skills doesnt do the class that much in trash groups. Therefore I would personally make the class single target and burst class. There are enough other classes to play if you want to do area damage.

    Still suggest this.

    Quote from Mazzi

    Increased Dark Soul Assail dark damage increment to 54%.
    Reduced Soul Agility duration to 30 seconds, increased cooldown to 90 seconds, increased dark damage increment to 54%.

    In my opinion wrong idea, increased dark damage is to low (maybe 75% and cooldown 60 s willl be better

    To support my statement above and to make the class combination into a sinlge target burst class, I would suggest adjusting the dark damage increase from "Soul Agility" to 75% and leaving the CD at 90 seconds or adjusting it if necessary in the event that it should be too strong.



    If you have read it this far, many thanks and sorry for the long text :D


    All suggestions are just my personal opinion. I look forward to further suggestions from other players.


    Greetings and Merry Christmas everyone :)

    Dear Devs,


    I would like to bring to your attention one more time the issue with wd pa that makes class underperform relative to other chain classes (champs, warriors) due to lack of pa. For example, fully buffed wd has 15-20% less pa compared to champ or warr with same gear (due to 1str = 2 pa for champ/warr, versus 1str = 1.5 pa for wd). This results in wd not having enough pa for high end instance like RoFL, i tested multiple wds and arguably best wd combo - wd/wl, is not performing as well as champ or warr combos. I strongly feel wd class needs a pa buff. Since changing attributes to pa is maybe problematic, i suggest you add the following to this class:


    "Protection of Nature" in addition to hp it provides already, add 10-15-20% pa buff, maybe try 15% and see how it looks? That wont affect classes that has X/wd, since that skill is wd primary. Please consider this change, you can check number of 2h swords in AH (even t16) and diminishing number of wds on the server as an indication from the players base that wd is not as competative for the end game relative to other chain classes. I personally enjoy wd class the most and would really like to see it raise again.


    Thank you!

    Hi,


    I want suggest a change for Scout/warrior.

    In the state of the damage all classes do and the HP of trash/bosses, you have a big problem for burst (need to do 3 skills and then a 1sec or higher Snipe - which is often fail cause of immune phases or boss dissappear or or or^^) and sustain dmg.


    I would suggest to change the 70th elite that it won't increase the snipe damage anymore. It should reduce the CD of

    Mana Drain Shot to 6 or 7 seconds and should let Combo Shot deal double damage (each hit should hits twice). This will reduce burst damage slightly (which is not a big problem because you even cannot use full potential of the class :D) but increase sustain damage and trash damage a bit.


    Kind regards

    Priest:


    • Changed class fairy pets to be scaled similiar to warden class pets.

    The change seems buggy. The fairy of my priest/warrior only made 8-15k hits on mobs where I was fully buffed. This should be significantly higher with the change. Can you check this out, please?


    Kind regards

    Did some rofl tests with mage/rogue (didn't try in a long time). Aoe dmg was ok, sustained and burst. When there are more than 6 mobs it starts to do decent. Single dmg? damn, that was a disaster. Both sustained and burst was trully terrible. My suggestions, stop treating this class like a support.

    - Giving this more dark dmg or mdmg would make the aoes too strong so, do magical shadow stab without global cd with good dmg (similar to m/s shot or wl/r shadow stab) so our single dmg isn't that depressing.

    - Remove 5% dmg buff for party.


    Right now is a mix between bad dps and not so important support.

    Quote from Madox

    Did some rofl tests with mage/rogue (didn't try in a long time). Aoe dmg was ok, sustained and burst. When there are more than 6 mobs it starts to do decent. Single dmg? damn, that was a disaster. Both sustained and burst was trully terrible. My suggestions, stop treating this class like a support.

    - Giving this more dark dmg or mdmg would make the aoes too strong so, do magical shadow stab without global cd with good dmg (similar to m/s shot or wl/r shadow stab) so our single dmg isn't that depressing.

    - Remove 5% dmg buff for party.


    Right now is a mix between bad dps and not so important support.

    Another idea I suggested quite a while ago is to make "trow" magical and remove the gcd. Because quite frankly its sad that a combination has absoulty no use of its secondary classes skills (except the 2 passives but I don't count them).


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 2

    More feedback on ch/s:


    1) I really like the idea of having champ that mostly replies of gun skills to do damage, nice and unique! However, at the present state it just does not work well, as I outline below:

    2) By far biggest issue is focus management - all gun skills use focus and if you move (and you do alot!) focus regen very low and very quickly you have 0 focus. Using a pot only short remedy and not sustained. Without focus, damage drops drastically. That makes class very unpleasant to play, despite my best efforts. The way i see to fix is could be via the following:

    a) increase total focus pool to 200 max, but i suspect it still wont work well

    b) change focus regen formula similar to energy from rogue, since ch.s is melee class unlike scout you cant stand and do dps, thus have to move closer to target and if you move, focus regen decreases drastically. Removing focus regen decrease with movement penalty would help and dont think will be huge change for a scout due to range they dont have to move as much

    c) change Focused conversion -the problem for ch/s is focus and not rage - losing 50 focus to get 100 rage is hardly needed, while focus and rage regeneration are welcome - I suggest to remove 100 rage gain and change to add 50 focus and 50 rage + keep rage & focus regeneration increase - that way you use 50 focus and you return 50 focus back + gain 50 rage, i think that would work much better to navigate focus issues that the class has. Else since you need this when focus is low, and cant use this skill if focus below 50, which defeats the purpose :)

    d) change ch/s aoe - Mechanical Storm - consider making it cost rage instead of focus, would help focus management a lot!

    3) in terms of damage potential, relative to s/wl which atm seems to be the strongest class (imho) both sustained and burst - ch/s much weaker with burst (with pot its not focus issue rather class limitation) + ch/s aoe also much weaker that s/wl; sustained i think would be comparable if focus management issue is fixed; since ch/s pa is enough, it seems that something else with burst buff is needed, since even with revised hide and seek skill the burst damage still was significantly lower that s/wl, even though s.wl i compared it too had worse gear.


    These are my observations, i commend the devs for trying to make it work, but atm it seems to me the combo is not good nor pleasant to play with either sustain/aoe/burst, i hope some of my feedback could be considered as I really like the idea but atm just not working out.


    Thanks!