Regarding Knight/Warlock:
The class is still underperforming. Mediocre burst at best (even in AoE situations with all the Knight AoEs) and some of the worst sustained dps I've seen so far.
I suggest the following:
-Increase 2h Weapon Mastery damage passive from 87% to 109% (like on K/Wd)
-Let Psychic Sweep (lvl 45 elite) modify Surge of Malice as well
Regarding Bloodless iss (and probably all Rogue teleport skills):
Got ported below the map twice today after using Bloodless, resulting in an instantaneous death. Please fix this, or remove the teleport-behind mechanic altogether.
Regarding Ch/Wl change:
I don't see why this change is necessary. Champion/Warlock is not overperforming in my experience. In fact, D/W and S/Wd are both classes that keep up with Ch/Wl in its current state with less gear.
Regarding Shock Overload:
The ability currently is hitting the adds while fighting the organs in Jeraths belly.
Display MoreRegarding Warrior/Priest:
Please consider changing Berserk to increase damage dealt instead of physical and magical damage. The buff currently benefits melee classes more than any other and makes comparing classes difficult.
Wasn't this applyed in patch 10.4.0.2014:
Warrior/Priest
- Changed Berserker to increase damage dealt by 7.9% instead of physical and magical damage.*
?
You're right. Berserk tooltip still incorrectly states "...increases phsical and magical damage...", but the buff description is correct and the skill works the way it should.
Regarding Champion:
Imprisonment Pulse is able to hit Khat's circles and other immune targets - such as Balton adds - after being enhanced by Kinetic Explosion.
I for one would prefer to wait and see how the buffs play out, before more are added. This applies to all classes that are going to be buffed ofc (Ch/Wl too).
Yes you are right. We should test first.
But Scout/Champ suffers from the change. If it wasn't planned to nerf it, it should get a damage boost too or have the old Arrow of Essence
That's one of the major issues of this balancing in my opinion right there.
We have seen so many changes to the general classes that didn't take their respective secondaries into account.
I know it's more work for the DEVs, but I'd like to see changes to specific combinations (elite skills) instead in the future.
Anyway, it's easy to only criticize. So thank you for your efforts DEVs !
Fair enough.
If support does not matter in the equation anymore though, I suggest increasing Ch/Wl's Endless Pulse attackspeed increment further, since at least 5% were missing to catch up to the two Rogues (and even more regarding the Mage).
Ah and don't forget Arrow of Essence is nerfed. So in Situations were you split buffs for maximum damage over longer time (trash), it is even a nerf while Arrow of Essence is active and you are not on attack speed cap
I for one would prefer to wait and see how the buffs play out, before more are added. This applies to all classes that are going to be buffed ofc (Ch/Wl too).
Don't forget the support Scout/Rogue offers with Exploiting Shot.
Like every mage can debuff mdef, every champ can give group Attack speed/ cast speed + crit. Every warlock can give whole raid patk/matk buffs and strong shields for group. I don't care on exploiting shot in this case, because even with it I was behind and mages don't benefit from this skill
Fair enough.
If support does not matter in the equation anymore though, I suggest increasing Ch/Wl's Endless Pulse attackspeed increment further, since around 5% more damage doesn't close the gap to the two Rogues/the Mage.
- Increased Ranged Weapon Mastery bow and crossbow damage gain to 51.8% from 38%.
10% damage increase. I like. But If mages will be strong as yesterday, I miss 2-5% to equal it out, because my weapon alone was ~8% stronger than the mage weapon +3% damage potion etc. and I was still behind 😂. We'll how it is after patch, but I guess some mini push is needed against mage/scout for example (If he didnt get a nerf 😅)
Greetings
Don't forget the support Scout/Rogue offers with Exploiting Shot.
Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.
Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.
Well.. if one of the best supporter classes for rofl is overwriting the major support utility a tank class has, it's reasonable that ppl keep playing it, because in random runs you usually don't have access to a w/p, but it's not a good class in general. In our guild runs with an optimized raid setup, a K/M is just useless, as said. If the debuff is changed to overwrite W/P or even stack, sure, K/M would be very useful. But that's just one single class. Thinking about all the other knight combos, I stay at my statement.
Regarding K/M buff being overwritten, Lutine made a good proposal.
Knight/Rogue and Knight/Warrior both have increased light damage taken debuffs, which are very potent when paired with the right classes. Knight/Druid has a increased healing taken buff for the group. Knight/Priest has a battle rezz. You said yourself Knight/Champion has a pull/stun.
I don't see lack of utility.
Edit: Seems like Lutine was faster
QuoteSo in my eyes, it's not at all necessary to play a knight if you want to tank these days. It's way more useful for the raid to have either a warden, a warrior, a champ or even a warlock tank. Knight needs much more support, more utility and more aggro, especially in AoE, which is much worse than any other tank out there. If a dps has forgotten to remove its hatred rune, a warden can still hold aggro against it, but a knight has lesser chance. I mean, it's still possible, but not with such a low effort. If nothing changes for knights, I will probably keep playing warden and warlock tank, which are much more useful in our runs, but is kinda unfortunate, because I really like the knight class. UwU
Sure, that's why everybody is tanking as Knight/Mage these days.
Holy Light Domain is by far the best utility/support skill a tank has access to these days.
Remember, not all groups run with a Warrior/Priest.
The main problem is that the overwhelming majority only plays the best class combination available to them. One combination will always stick out and thus will be played.
Sadly many nerfs where directed to Champion in general, instead of nerfing the combinations specifically that were overperforming, which left certain secondary classes in a bad shape.
Moreover, Ch/W and Ch/P are two underwhelming combinations that just don't see play. Ch/W is a bad tank who nobody in his right mind would choose over Ch/K. Same with Ch/P, not really viable as a dps compared to other combinations and heavily outclassed as both tank and supporter by /K and /D respectively. Those two are in dire need of a rework in my opinion. Ideally one of the two should be made a dps, to increase the amount of combinations a Champion can choose from as a damage dealer.
We tried CH/p as dps before the last patch and it was nearly as strong as CH/m. Should be equal now. The main problem I saw is the aggro in trash phases of CH/p. I would say nearly no Knight can hold the aggro. If the CH/p skills wouldn't generate aggro in demo mode, it would be a fine class in my observations
Interesting, maybe the 30% patch made this class more viable. However, I'm quite positive it can't match Ch/M. Gonna test this myself over the next days.
Still, Ch/P is not a well rounded combination in my opinion. The rotation feels clunky, Reviving Blast is useless and the elite skills in general are all over the place, mixing dps, support and tank abilities. I'd wish for are more clear line regarding the role of Ch/P.
I'm aware that Ch/M is still a strong and competitive choice for Champion dps and Ch/Wl doesn't need to be buffed on the level of other top dps classes.
However, I think a buff would be reasonable and much appreciated.
I think its quiet sad that you only see ch/m as only champ dps class. I think only buffing /wl isnt enough, but instead buff /warrior, /scout and /rogue aswell, so champion can exist in the game as fully dps class again. But PLEASE plan ahead what youre aiming for on each classcombo. One class more aoe focused, while the other one might be more singletarget focused.
Its sad to see that the main reason why a champ is in the party is the /druid for its support (dont know about /knight as tank). Would love to see more champ dps instead of just a single one for a whole class.
The main problem is that the overwhelming majority only plays the best class combination available to them. One combination will always stick out and thus will be played.
Sadly many nerfs where directed to Champion in general, instead of nerfing the combinations specifically that were overperforming, which left certain secondary classes in a bad shape.
Moreover, Ch/W and Ch/P are two underwhelming combinations that just don't see play. Ch/W is a bad tank who nobody in his right mind would choose over Ch/K. Same with Ch/P, not really viable as a dps compared to other combinations and heavily outclassed as both tank and supporter by /K and /D respectively. Those two are in dire need of a rework in my opinion. Ideally one of the two should be made a dps, to increase the amount of combinations a Champion can choose from as a damage dealer.
Regarding Champion/Warlock. I've tested the class over the last days and must say it underperforms compared to most Mages, Rogues & Warriors.
In a slow run during which I was able to build and maintain 7 Forge stacks and profit from the halved Indomitable Spirit cooldown, I was barely able to keep up the lesser geared Rogues (t18/14/13 vs t14-15/10-12). This roughly equates to ~15% less damage compared to R/S and R/W with equal gear.
Against M/S and M/W I wasn't able to hold my ground at all (20% less damage at least, compared to a Mage with roughly equal gear).
In a faster paced run Ch/Wl is even worse, since building stacks in AoE situations is nearly impossible and the gcd of Indomitable Spirit becomes a major drawback, since it doesn't deal any damage on its own. The strength scaling reduction becomes much more noticeable this way.
I'm aware that Ch/M is still a strong and competitive choice for Champion dps and Ch/Wl doesn't need to be buffed on the level of other top dps classes.
However, I think a buff would be reasonable and much appreciated. I suggest increasing the attack speed increment of Endless Pulse from it's current 9,2% to 15% and removing the gcd from Indomitable Spirit.
Display MoreHowever, I think this much reduction is an overkill.
All in all, the class needs a serious nerf. I suggest reducing Heart of the Wild to 72% and reverting all abilities back to physical damage.
This reduction suggestion is almost thrice bigger than current planned reduction in terms of damage output.
Greetings
Seems like I overlooked Druid's Knowledge of the Earth passive
The nerf should be fine then.
Druid/Warrior is currently severly overperforming. 13kk+ hits in trash with some cd's and kills things faster than other classes before the 30% nerf. Moreover, it has ridculous sustained (AoE) damage.
Keep in mind, we're talking about a class with seeds, offheal, battle rezz & group cleanse (the strongest skill in game imho, that allows you to even skip some mechanics).
All in all, the class needs a serious nerf. I suggest reducing Heart of the Wild to 72% and reverting all abilities back to physical damage.
- Reduced Heart of the Wild 2-H axe damage gain to 38% from 86%.
There is the nerf xD
Now that was fast. However, I think this much reduction is an overkill.
Druid/Warrior is currently severly overperforming. 13kk+ hits in trash with some cd's and kills things faster than other classes before the 30% nerf. Moreover, it has ridculous sustained (AoE) damage.
Keep in mind, we're talking about a class with seeds, offheal, battle rezz & group cleanse (the strongest skill in game imho, that allows you to even skip some mechanics).
All in all, the class needs a serious nerf. I suggest reducing Heart of the Wild to 72% and reverting all abilities back to physical damage.
Hello,
Would it be possible to implement the interface option to automatically use ground based AoE abilities such as Thunderstorm at the current cursor position ? Ideally without involving SpellTargetUnit, which unfortunately leads to unwanted movement sometimes, when the player has click to move enabled.
This would bring a lot of convenience to several classes, eliminate the use of macros and especially help out newer players.
Since you've already made several improvements to make the overall gaming experience smoother in the past (such as the siege skill changes) I wanted to put this out here as well. I think you'd make a lot of players happy.
Greetings
Regarding Rogue:
After testing the rotation of several Rogue combinations for a bit, I can attest that Energy issues are pretty severe (except for /W as was already mentioned).
Hence my following suggestion. Change Numbing Dagger (a skill nearly noone ever uses anyway) to
Cursed Blade: "Sap the vitality of your foe causing 400% mainhand weapon dps physical damage to the target and restoring 50 Energy to you." 8 seconds cd and doesn't cause a gcd.
This would be akin to Warlock's Heart Collection Strike and would help sustaining a lot. The Rage sustain issues Warrior and Champion had were addressed long ago, so it would be just fair. If any balancing issues should arise in the aftermath, small corrections can always be applied to the respective secondary classes. Afterall, classes should have a somewhat fluent rotation. I can imagine that especially new players who lack elite skills will have a hard time leveling a Rogue.
Regarding Druid/Warrior:
I agree with Midan, looks promising. However, I still suggest removing the gcd of Heart Piercing and adding it to Slash.
The reason for this is that the non gcd ability is used first and having one that costs Rage just feels so clunky to play. Moreover, it would help with Rage sustain quite a bit, since Heart Piercing is used every 1.5 seconds and generates Rage constantly.
Indeed. If I were a Rogue player I'd take your side too, no hard feelings. The arguments have been presented, let's see how the devs decide.
QuoteMy statement was about rogues in general that they cannot compete with other classes in longer fights than dwarven ale is up
Indeed. And I disagree with this statement (generalization), which I should have made sufficiently clear in my previous posts.
QuoteAnd btw rogue/k is a dps class, If champions are dps
Yep, R/K without Power of the Lion active is as good a dps as Ch/W with Disassembly Mode active.
Display MoreI don't think that Ch/Wl gets a buff. The reduced cd of Indomitable Spirit just counteracts the loss of patk.
Agreed, classes like Warrior/Champion excell at longer fights. But if the R/P nerf is to be reverted, Ch/Wl has to be buffed.
I dislike generalizations, because they have lead to nerfs of all secondary classes, like it could be observed with Champion's Rune Pulse & Imprisonment Pulse ( excluding weapon passive, because several classes got that treatment).
I get that you are upset with W/Ch dealing more damage than your rogue, but please understand that I'm in the same situation when comparing R/P to my Ch/Wl.
But you are comparing a weaker chain class with one of the top rogues
Warrior/CH was an example. Also Warrior/r and Warrior/WL are on top with lower gear.
I also haven't the new ISS yet. And at least the CH/m is stronger than CH/WL.
I understand that some chain classes are not on top, but please understand that you should one of the best chain classes comparing with one of the best rogues. Otherwise we can discuss that r/k is totally useless. Far far away in damage than CH/m while both tanking and even not so tanky in dps gear
P.S.: I tested the chain class for myself with my own rogue. I am not a fan of comparing with other ppl because of reasons
Greetings
But isn't balancing about roughly equalizing the strength of all (dps) classes ? Ch/Wl was once top Champion too before getting nerfed. In fact, we have seen many top combinations of their respective class rise and fall. So you would be fine with the R/P nerf if there was a stronger Rogue ? I don't get the logic behind your argumentation.
I'm not saying that they should keep the R/P nerf. But you should understand that taking it away arises the need of buffing many other, weaker, classes.
It is, because both you and Lutine said chain classes are stronger than Rogues in general. As I have stated, this is not true for classes like Ch/Wl.
Maybe for CH/WL which get a buff. But r/p is atm the strongest rogue in single damage and right behind r/w in aoe. With my t10 Chain gear I did more damage with Warrior/CH for example.
I don't think that Ch/Wl gets a buff. The reduced cd of Indomitable Spirit just counteracts the loss of patk.
Agreed, classes like Warrior/Champion excell at longer fights. But if the R/P nerf is to be reverted, Ch/Wl has to be buffed.
I dislike generalizations, because they have lead to nerfs of all secondary classes, like it could be observed with Champion's Rune Pulse & Imprisonment Pulse ( excluding weapon passive, because several classes got that treatment).
I get that you are upset with W/Ch dealing more damage than your Rogue, but please understand that I'm in the same situation when comparing R/P to my Ch/Wl.
In my most recent run as Ch/Wl, I have made the exact opposite observation. I could barely hold my ground against a much less geared R/P (t15 weapon, 3x t9 piece, rest t12). I'd say if you take the difference in gear into account, Ch/Wl does approximately 20% less overall damage. I can't say if R/P is too strong or Ch/Wl too weak, but if I just compare those two classes the nerf is absolutely justified.
Did you also compare yourself to M / S, M / WD, M / CH, CH / M, W / R. In my humble opinion, comparing yourself to one class is not very appropriate.
It is, because both you and Lutine have written that chain classes are stronger than Rogues in general. As I have stated, this is not true for classes like Ch/Wl.
In general rogues cannot compare in whole RoFL with Chain dps or mdps classes. Maybe except rogue/Warrior because of his aoe.
This is just my opinion based on playstyle of rogues and chain classes in the last days and comparing it with mdps and other chain classes ( I know chain will be nerfed. But longer fights -> worse for rogues xd )
In my most recent run as Ch/Wl, I have made the exact opposite observation. I could barely hold my ground against a much less geared R/P (t15 weapon, 3x t9 piece, rest t12). I'd say if you take the difference in gear into account, Ch/Wl does approximately 20% less overall damage. I can't say if R/P is too strong or Ch/Wl too weak, but if I just compare those two classes the nerf is absolutely justified.
