Posts by Serenadae

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

I don't think that Ch/Wl gets a buff. The reduced cd of Indomitable Spirit just counteracts the loss of patk.

Agreed, classes like Warrior/Champion excell at longer fights. But if the R/P nerf is to be reverted, Ch/Wl has to be buffed.

I dislike generalizations, because they have lead to nerfs of all secondary classes, like it could be observed with Champion's Rune Pulse & Imprisonment Pulse ( excluding weapon passive, because several classes got that treatment).

I get that you are upset with W/Ch dealing more damage than your rogue, but please understand that I'm in the same situation when comparing R/P to my Ch/Wl.

But you are comparing a weaker chain class with one of the top rogues

Warrior/CH was an example. Also Warrior/r and Warrior/WL are on top with lower gear.

I also haven't the new ISS yet. And at least the CH/m is stronger than CH/WL.

I understand that some chain classes are not on top, but please understand that you should one of the best chain classes comparing with one of the best rogues. Otherwise we can discuss that r/k is totally useless. Far far away in damage than CH/m while both tanking and even not so tanky in dps gear

P.S.: I tested the chain class for myself with my own rogue. I am not a fan of comparing with other ppl because of reasons

Greetings

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But isn't balancing about roughly equalizing the strength of all (dps) classes ? Ch/Wl was once top Champion too before getting nerfed. In fact, we have seen many top combinations of their respective class rise and fall. So you would be fine with the R/P nerf if there was a stronger Rogue ? I don't get the logic behind your argumentation.

I'm not saying that they should keep the R/P nerf. But you should understand that taking it away arises the need of buffing many other, weaker, classes.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

It is, because both you and Lutine said chain classes are stronger than Rogues in general. As I have stated, this is not true for classes like Ch/Wl.

Maybe for CH/WL which get a buff. But r/p is atm the strongest rogue in single damage and right behind r/w in aoe. With my t10 Chain gear I did more damage with Warrior/CH for example.

I don't think that Ch/Wl gets a buff. The reduced cd of Indomitable Spirit just counteracts the loss of patk.

Agreed, classes like Warrior/Champion excell at longer fights. But if the R/P nerf is to be reverted, Ch/Wl has to be buffed.

I dislike generalizations, because they have lead to nerfs of all secondary classes, like it could be observed with Champion's Rune Pulse & Imprisonment Pulse ( excluding weapon passive, because several classes got that treatment).

I get that you are upset with W/Ch dealing more damage than your Rogue, but please understand that I'm in the same situation when comparing R/P to my Ch/Wl.

Quote from Byldi

Quote from Serenadae

In my most recent run as Ch/Wl, I have made the exact opposite observation. I could barely hold my ground against a much less geared R/P (t15 weapon, 3x t9 piece, rest t12). I'd say if you take the difference in gear into account, Ch/Wl does approximately 20% less overall damage. I can't say if R/P is too strong or Ch/Wl too weak, but if I just compare those two classes the nerf is absolutely justified.

Did you also compare yourself to M / S, M / WD, M / CH, CH / M, W / R. In my humble opinion, comparing yourself to one class is not very appropriate.

It is, because both you and Lutine have written that chain classes are stronger than Rogues in general. As I have stated, this is not true for classes like Ch/Wl.

Quote from xLutinex

In general rogues cannot compare in whole RoFL with Chain dps or mdps classes. Maybe except rogue/Warrior because of his aoe.

Quote from xLutinex

This is just my opinion based on playstyle of rogues and chain classes in the last days and comparing it with mdps and other chain classes ( I know chain will be nerfed. But longer fights -> worse for rogues xd )

In my most recent run as Ch/Wl, I have made the exact opposite observation. I could barely hold my ground against a much less geared R/P (t15 weapon, 3x t9 piece, rest t12). I'd say if you take the difference in gear into account, Ch/Wl does approximately 20% less overall damage. I can't say if R/P is too strong or Ch/Wl too weak, but if I just compare those two classes the nerf is absolutely justified.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

As others have already written, this would push the class over the edge in terms of damage.

However, since the level 35 elite is outright useless atm, I partially agree with changing it too "Moon Cleave consumes Life instead of Rage." (10%). Keep in mind, without any added bleed.

Solid suggestion in terms of convenience, but reducing the damage increment of the level 60 elite by a mere 1% is not enough to counteract the damage gain of a flawless Heavy Bash. It would be at least needed to be cut in half (2%).

After all, R/Ch has lots of group support (lvl 15, lvl 20, lvl 45 elite) and shouldn't be as strong as other Rogues.

Cutting lvl elite by half depends in change. If Heavy Bash is changed to be flawless without any other changes, you will be same like before without dwarven ale. The support of the class works only on static enemies (bosses). A change like for CH/m costing mana for Heavy Bash is not possible.

Changing Heavy Bash to not cost any resource would be not in my mind, therefore the lvl elite needs to be cut by 75% or more.

It depends on the devs ^^, but the main problem of this class is to be always out of both resources without dwarven ale. Other classes still have minimum 1 skill without resource cost or with resource you have infinitly (mana) like at CH/m, r/d, r/wrd or r/p.

Even with r/w you have nearly no resource problems (except spamming whirlwind), because the class have a good rotation with rage and energy skills

Edit: even with his own support IT is nowadays weaker at jerath event than r/p without any supp

Kind regards

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Yes, I agree on that point. All classes should have a fluent rotation.

Quote from Vella

My sugestion about W/Ch

elite skill 35: Moon Cleave no need rage but consumes vitality points, after accurate hit increase bleed damage from slash for few sec.

elite skill 60: -||-. If target have bleed, (slash bleed effect) shock strike deal additional damage.

elite skill 70: Blood Whirlwind have eqeal bleed damage like bleed efect from slash.

As others have already written, this would push the class over the edge in terms of damage.

However, since the level 35 elite is outright useless atm, I partially agree with changing it too "Moon Cleave consumes Life instead of Rage." (10%). Keep in mind, without any added bleed.

Quote from xLutinex

Regarding R/Ch

I thought a long time about this class. Need to say that in my opinion the change a few weeks/months ago, that "Electrocution" triggers a "Low Blow" if you have enough energy, results in a bit more burst damage, that you can nearly compete with other rogues (still a bit lower, but ok) but in sustain or aoe damage, you lack hard in comparison with for example r/w, r/d, r/p or r/wrd. Why? Because the energy consumption of Electrocution is heavy -> permanent out of energy. If you use other skills for single target hits like "Heavy Bash" or "Energy Influx Strike" you go fast out of rage (Electrocution only needs 10 rage).

This class lacks a bit of things like r/d, r/wrd or r/p have -> non global cooldown skills

Maybe change Heavy Bash on this class to be flawless and give it a chance to recover some rage or energy and cost 10 rage instead of 20? There could also be a reduce of the level 60 elite to 3% damage per stack to not overpower this class. But atm the playstyle is kinda "laggy" because of both resource problems

Kind regards

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Solid suggestion in terms of convenience, but reducing the damage increment of the level 60 elite by a mere 1% is not enough to counteract the damage gain of a flawless Heavy Bash. It would be at least needed to be cut in half (2%).

After all, R/Ch has lots of group support (lvl 15, lvl 20, lvl 45 elite) and shouldn't be as strong as other Rogues.

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And additionally make the Warden/Champ a plate tank, since it's useless as a chain class?

Please don't. Wd/Ch can tank rofl in chain dps gear, I don't know where you see a useless class...

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The basis of my ideas is to remove the shield form, but still offer 3 different tank classes, which should be fair to knight classes.

I strongly oppose such a class identity altering change. I agree that Shield Form should give a much less conversion rate, so that aspiring Champion tanks have to build into their role.

However, balancing is about adjustments in terms of strength and viabilty and not completly overhauling the base concept of a class. A class that players have chosen to play because of the unique style Disassembly Mode and Shield Form offer.

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1. "Disassembly mode" is an elite skill that allows you to wear plate gear.

I don't see why giving plate wearers access to several new combinations while drastically reducing the amount of class combinations a chain wearing Champion can choose from should be fair.

I still propose what I already wrote in the other thread: Reduce the conversion rate of Shield Form to 20%, like its counterpart.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

If SoD was only hardly nerfed, doesn't that mean it's still too strong ?

Regarding the rest of your post, agreed, Champion can tank effectively with dps gear, which should be adressed. Ch/D however is not on par with a real healer, so I have to disagree on that point.

I suggest reducing the conversion rate of Shield Form to 20%, just like Disassembly Mode. This way Ch-tanks would have to build into their role and not just use dps gear. However, Rune Growth and Rune Craft - Fortify should be reverted to their former state.

This doesn't justify claiming that Knight is a worse tank than Champ though, which both you and Zyrex did repeatedly. There is a reason why the majority of tanks play Knight.

Lastly, in the context of fairness, how is it fair that a fully-fledged tank (k/m) has access to a stronger damage reduction debuff than a class whose sole purpose is supporting (w/p) ?

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because the w/p has more supp than only damage migitation. And the damage migitation overrides the k/m debuff. Furthermore the debuff of w/p applies on immune mobs. All in all stronger.

Healing the whole raid with more than 200k in a dps gear is kinda too strong. I don't Know how much it is, but I guess on an endgame CH/d it heals more than 500k

In my opinion delete Knight/m damage migitation debuff. But delete shield form too. It is OK for me.

Classes should have their role. And If they can fit more than 1 role, they should need more than 1 gear. All other is just game destroying and ridiculous

As I said in previous. Add plate gear to shield form and disable ability wearing chain while active. Best solution. After it, some shield form values can be adjusted, if needed

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Yes, W/P has support, but K/M is a tank, as I said. I fail to see your point here.

Sure classes should have their role, hence my suggestion with changing Shield Form. I heavily disagree on making Champion tanks plate wearers though. There are already enough classes that can/should wear plate. I can't play general Rogue or Scout with my chain gear, althought they fill the same role (dps).

Since you seem to have some problem with Champion in general this will be my last post. All the arguments have been presented and it is now up to the devs to decide.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Serenadae

... And don't even get me started on Shield of Discipline, a skill that never should have been implemented in the first way, because it offers way too much mitigation with 50% uptime. ....

... Hence I don't get why some people claim Champion is vastly superior in terms of tanking and Knight far worse (even read useless once or twice)...

shield of discipline was hardly nerfed some patches ago, where the damage migitation calculation was changed.

Secondly why ppl maybe claim so much about Champions is: you can effectively tank, do dps and heal as a champ in chain dps gear. Something that no other classes can. A raid of 12 champions is same effective running an instance like any other group. For fairness every class should get a skill like shield form and reaching full tank values in their dps gear or none class should have it. Actually there is no need atm doing other gear than chain. The joke was the healing ability of Champ/druid. Just saying but a leather gear rogue/priest or rogue/druid heals nothing while champ/druid is a good healer in dps gear.

It's all about fairness, balancing and class roles. Nobody can deny, that champions can do all jobs in a group effectively with 1 gear

Kind regards

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If SoD was only hardly nerfed, doesn't that mean it's still too strong ?

Regarding the rest of your post, agreed, Champion can tank effectively with dps gear, which should be adressed. Ch/D however is not on par with a real healer, so I have to disagree on that point.

I suggest reducing the conversion rate of Shield Form to 20%, just like Disassembly Mode. This way Ch-tanks would have to build into their role and not just use dps gear. However, Rune Growth and Rune Craft - Fortify should be reverted to their former state.

This doesn't justify claiming that Knight is a worse tank than Champ though, which both you and Zyrex did repeatedly. There is a reason why the majority of tanks play Knight.

Lastly, in the context of fairness, how is it fair that a fully-fledged tank (k/m) has access to a stronger damage reduction debuff than a class whose sole purpose is supporting (w/p) ?

Quote from Zyrex

Just one correction MidanLauert UwU

Quote from MidanLauert

They're f****** great. Play what you want as long as you can do your job. K/D, /Ch, /R and M are viable. Champ-Tanks are very viable (but sometimes really, really annoying) in almost every combination. The only notable outlier is the Ch/M that's a bit too strong.

Wd is the weakest of the three "main tanks" but does a pretty decent job when paired with a /K or a /W. Hell, even a WL/K can paritally tank rofl... somehow. W/K is a pretty decent tank, too.

Tanks are great as long as you don't play knight yourself and compare your value of viability as a tank to champ dps classes. You will realize that those strength based chain dps builds have better values plus can play tactics that require a minimum of patt (e.g. rofl b1). So basically - if you don't support the raid as a knight - you are currently less useful than a champ dps.

Balancing tanks should either make "real" stamina oriented tanks better than chain strength dps or nerf the viability of chain classes as tanks in strength oriented gear. (if you ask me, I would entirely remove shield form from game and make it only available for champ/knight, but fortunately I don't do balancing here :D)

The fact that you reach better values as a chain dps champ in shield form than a full stamina-statted plate knight or warden or warrior, is just ridiculous. The only fact why warden tanks are actually viable in the current tank meta is their 100% parry rate. Without they have some defensive cooldowns which unfortunately have a decently higher downtime than uptime, which makes them useless in long lasting fights through immune phases / boss tactics stages.

I mean, yes, rofl isn't that hard that you actually "need" good defensive values, but a dps class shouldn't be able to replace a fulltank with just 1 click.

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So you want to take away the ability to tank from all Champions except /Knight ? You realize that /Warrior and /Priest are tanking-oriented combinations as well ?

Moreover, I don't get why Champions should have the same pdef like Knights, they lack parry (with the exception of /Knight). Parry offers much more damage mitigation than excessive pdef values, as can be observed at rofl last boss when he gathers many stacks. Moreover, another prime defensive mechanism of Knights is Threaten, a skill that shifts the adf tremendously in favor of the user. Sure, it cannot be used on a immune target, but in this situation Champions loose their iss stacks as well. And don't even get me started on Shield of Discipline, a skill that never should have been implemented in the first way, because it offers way too much mitigation with 50% uptime.

Lastly, although I agree that Ch/K gets too much pdef and should be adjusted, it amuses me greatly how the way too strong Knight combination is never mentioned: Knight/Mage.

A 21,8 % permanently maintainable damage reduction debuff is more than insane. It's even stronger than P/W's similar debuff and this class is solely dedicated to supporting. Imho the additional survivability for the whole group outweights any superior stats greatly. After all, your job as a tank goes beyond just surving, you have to make sure your group survives as well. Hence I don't get why some people claim Champion is vastly superior in terms of tanking and Knight far worse (even read useless once or twice)...

@ mods: If this is the wrong thread for this, please relocate it to the feedback one. I could not leave this unanswered.

Since I already wrote that K/Wl needs changes to become viable again, here are some concrete ideas. The class currently suffers from three major problems imho: (general) lack of damage, no "real" rotation (Unholy Strike & Punishment + Warp Charge/Weakening Weave Curse) & being almost permanently out of focus.

First off, please consider changing the calculation of Charge and the second hit of Shock (the one dependant on the amount of Holy Seals on the target) to mainhand weapon dps light damage.

K/Wl specific:

-Change Strike of Punishment: "Can only be used while your target is under the effect of Punishment Seal. Deals 1500% mainhand weapon dps dark damage to the target and restores 50 Focus."

-> Currently this skill is never used because it's not dps based. Moreover, this suggestion would easen the constant thirst for focus the class suffers from. 1500% may seems high, but don't forget that the class has way less weapon damage than /Wd, a class that doesn't overperform in any shape or form.

-Add to Shield of Darkness: "Your Truth Shield Bash increases your light damage and dark damage by 12% for 60 seconds while under the effect of Shield of Darkness."

-> K/Wl lacks in terms of damage increments compared to /Wd and currently Truth Shield bash is never used, because it deals less damage than Unholy Strike.

-Let Psychic Sweep enhance Surge of Malice as well: "Inflicts 400% mainhand weapon dps dark damage to up to 10 targets."

-> another "new" skill to use & some additional AoE

-Change Defensive Mastery to Master of Seals: "Enhances your Holy Seal greatly." -> Holy Seal: "Deals 600% mainhand weapon dps light damage and 600% mainhand weapon dps." 6 seconds cd instead of 10.

-> Since K/Wl seems to be dps focused I don't see why the class needs another pdef buff. This way Holy Seal could be included into the rotation and would deal slightly more damage than a Unholy Strike (538% x2).

Quote from MidanLauert

Quote from Serenadae

Agreed, K/Wl is quite lacking atm. I suggest 50 focus restoration, like Warlock's Heart Collection Strike. Moreover, I'm still in favor of changing it's damage calculation to the usual % mainhand weapon dps (and reducing the numbers accordingly).

I doubt this alone will make the class viable again, but definitely would be a nice change.

I think GCD and focus would be enough for now. Perhaps it coud give some less focus but the cooldown would also be lower, then the damage would also be fine as it is. Don't wanna overbuff the class, otherwise it may turn out to be the next R/Sc xD

K/Wl is currently the worst chain class, well, maybe with the exception of D/W (although Druid at least has a battlerezz & other meaningful support). Imho there is no reason at all to play it. If you want a tanky offtank-dps hybrid, K/Wd does the job much better. So I don't see this change being sufficient or the class being at risk of becoming op.

K/Wl has the worst sustained dps I've seen so far from across all classes and not enough burst to make up for it. Borderline useless in my experience, while no cds are up.

Quote from MidanLauert

Hi there.

I really like the K/WL but the class is lacking when it comes to meaningful combos. This is mainly due to the high focus cost of it's non-gcd skills and how brutally useless Strike of Punishment is. The changes I would like to propose are the following: Strike of Punishment should restore focus and be useable without a gcd. This would fix both issues. It wouldn't be too strong either as it's own cooldown of 7 seconds prevents spamming and it's damage is quite small.

Just to clarify: I am speaking about the hit with the ID 1490840 and not 1490839. Punishment itself is fine!

Agreed, K/Wl is quite lacking atm. I suggest 50 focus restoration, like Warlock's Heart Collection Strike. Moreover, I'm still in favor of changing it's damage calculation to the usual % mainhand weapon dps (and reducing the numbers accordingly).

I doubt this alone will make the class viable again, but definitely would be a nice change.

"At the same time it's very funny that the strongest magic combination after making these planned changes will be druid/warlock."

Just no... mdps have gained two very strong classes with Wl/S & Wl/Wd, both perform better than alot of pdps. Druid/Warlock is nowhere near them.

So I'd say the latest patch was pretty good for cloth players.

Thank you for the clarification.

Regarding Ch/D.

Is it intended that Recover triggered by Rune Pulse via lvl 35 elite consumes MP, although Recover is still triggered when the player has Zero mana left ?

Quote from Ryzek

Hey Arcadians,

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but because of the new changes I thought, I'll suggest something about the new Cenedrils. First of all, I would like to emphasize that the combination is really great and all buff combinations meet the player's wishes. Surely most will move to 100 for their class with their hearts. However, all this is of no use without the necessary materials. Especially from my guild in the last 2 weeks people have pulled their Cenedrils to 100 (me included). It wasn't cheap and cost quite a lot of charges. However, the problem have probably all the players on the server, which is really annoying. Therefore, I would suggest a new Item Shop item. How about a reset card of the Cenedril materials for an X-value of diamonds and thus, for example, you get 70% of the materials back. The value can be adjusted according to the ideas, but I think with such an item the community would be very satisfied and you are not so much annoyed for the wasted materials.

Greetings Ryzek

Great idea ! Would be very helpful, even if it's only 50%.

Mirror World Tickets please

Regarding W/Wl:

• Changed Spirit Blade Storm to be attached to caster, reduced duration to 10 seconds.

Thank you for this change, will make the class much more pleasant to play. If W/Wl does indeed overperform due to this, the passive always can be cropped further afterwards. However, there are many leather classes atm that deal equal or even more damage than W/Wl, so let's see how it plays out.

Regarding Champion:

Thanks for all the changes to the lesser played combinations and especially for

• Changed Knowledge of Destruction to increase caster’s damage by 12% instead of reducing by 15%.

Regarding Warrior/Warlock:

Thank you for the latest changes, W/Wl has become a decent dps. There is still an issue with it though: Spirit Blade Storm, the core mechanic of the class, is very frustrating to use. Especially when playing with different tanks who each do their own pulls, you never know when to use it. Using your stationary 20 sec cd skill when the mobs are pulled out of range feels so bad.

Please change Spirit Blade Storm to be caster-focused like R/M's Hell Blades or remove its cd.

• Changed The Final Battle to The Last Duel; Channels on target for 3 seconds to inflict 1200% damage 6 times, while doing so, will force target to focus on you, however your duel mastery will let you parry off each attack they try, increased cooldown to 20 seconds. Each critical hit made during channel will reduce cooldown of this skill by 3 seconds.

This sounds very interesting, high risk high reward. I like it.

Regarding Champion.

/Druid: As already suggested, please consider changing Knowledge of Destruction to benefit the caster as well. This way, the caster would get 24 -15 = 9% increased damage dealt and it wouldn't feel so abysmal to play the class as a dps/support hybrid.

/Priest: I don't know if the class is intended to be a tank, but since it has several skills that hint at a partial dps identity I suggest to increase the patk increment of Way of Frenzy from 8 to 15% and to change the entirely useless Reviving Blast (neither used as dps or tank) into something useful.

/Warden: Substantially lacks damage and Rage sustain to compete in the current meta. I suggest changing Shock Overload to work with Axes.

/Warrior: Currently a tank combination that nobody uses and will use, since it offers no group utility, is less tanky than /K and is excruciatingly painful to play, because all abilities except for Rune Pulse (which requires a proc) cost Rage.

Since Champion already has a combination exclusively dedicated to tanking (/K) and all other combinations, with the exception of /Wl, offer at least some tanking capabilities as well (most prominently /M & /P), I suggest changing /W accordingly. This way the class could see play.

Quote from xLutinex

Quote from Ryzek

Warrior/Champion:

In this class, the above problem with the outgoing skills occurs despite high attack speed and the critical hit probability that depends on it. For this purpose, my idea would be to change the "Rachelhieb" easily. The Damageboost does not start until the target is below 10%. But in 90% of all cases you have the problem that either 10% will be bursted in 0.5 seconds or the skill is not even ready at this time. For example, with the 2nd Boss in Rofl, this is completely useless because it disappears at 25% and the adds come. You could start the Damageboost at 30% and thus have the chance to use this skill at least 2 times in the burst phases if they take so long. What also struck me is that despite full attackspeed, fewer hits come out, as if you attack more slowly, for example in offburst. The damage numbers are logically much higher, but if the frequency of the skills is so slow, it would be better if you adjusted this so that attack speed skills trigger faster and the hits stay high.

Personally I had the feeling that warrior/champ is the strongest warrior :O

Indeed. But if the current state of Rogues is the new benchmark, still not strong enough.

/Wl (yes, even with the upcoming changes), /D & /S are still borderline useless in the current meta, so changes to them would be appreciated. /P is the worst of them all, but I think (?) the class is intended to be a support and not dps class anyhow.

• Changed Guitar instrument to provide 20% attack speed additionally.
• Changed Lute instrument to provide 20% cast speed additionally.

Thank you ! This in addition to the Storm Assault changes will make the lives of mixed raids much easier.

Champion/Warlock

• Increased Psychic Forge damage gain per stack to 3%.

Much appreciated, since Ch/Wl has fallen behind most good class combinations these days.