General Class Balance [Feedback]

On what basis did you consider that a distance of 1,000 units was sufficient for the range of aura-type buffs ?

Yesterday's DC done with my guild showed that in certain player settings in an arena with 2 boss the range of 1000 is insufficient to buff the whole arena. I'm not referring to the extreme situation where the buffing person is standing at the end of one cave and the rest of the people at the end of a cave that is diagonally across, just the situation where the buffing person is normally standing on the surface (not necessarily in the centre of it).

The effect of this change is that it is now best to have two similarly dressed healers preferably on a combination of d/p or p/d, in order to constantly have reinforcements in content where a group split must occur due to the tactical element. I think this is a very poor change. You feel this change very strongly when the healing person makes a mistake while beating anything and dies......

Effect => -500k matt XD

Additional question. Are you able to ensure that the area of tactics involving rescue from a cage on WB Zhargos is within 1000 of any point of the entire upper arena with dragons? I ask this question because for most magic classes rescuing a friend from a cage is no small challenge ( especially for players just starting to play with this WB) and weakening such a player by lack of patt, dmg, hp coming from aura type buffs may end up with only a maximum of 2-3 MDPS type connections being worth going to the WB or simply MDPS players not rescuing friends from a cage.

Hello this new charge feature with teleport into Mobs or just stun Mobs feels very not good.

+ its buggy at jerath. If you use charge at organs you're dead and outside of organs.

At knight this skills gave mobility and sometimes a tactical advantage now its just a stun.

please redo this mechanic to the old one .

I still have Backports so it's not the fault of this skill. Kind regard idhril

Hello devs and players,

I wanted to talk about general balance on the topic of what newbies like to pick as DPS-Classes.

In the past few weeks I have been helping out smaller Guilds run Hoto, Idk, Kalin etc. and have come to the conclusion, that support is horrible. They never play music, no SA, no Warp Charge and CC is very bad which makes melee-classes harder to play (they die more). New guilds have no idea how important these buffs are and instead of starting to support better, they adapt in an interesting way: They all become ranged Mdps (not CPS-based).

We all know that Mdps (except Cps-based classes) are less dependent on Lute/Guitar, SA, FT, Warp Charge etc. than Leather and Chain-classes. What happens in this new guilds is the chain or leather-dps cannot keep up with a class like Mage/Knight, Bard/Mage or Mage/Rogue. They either become mdps and or quit being dps.

This sad reality will always make Mdps popular from the start and once you are Mdps you most likely will continue to be Mdps even if your guild becomes better at supporting or if you change to highend-Guild.

I do not know if devs care about this but as a chain-dps I think it is sad that new chain-players think that chain is bad. Even I was a victim of this when I started as newbie.

I have a long-term suggestion but feel free to add or take away:

Modifiy the Newbie-Patch and rewards to give new players free tutorial music instruments and free Siege-War titles. For example there should be a Tutorial Storm Assault +2 with same cooldown and mechanics as real Storm Assault +2.

The tutorial Siege-War buffs/debuffs and tutorial Instruments should be given out after reaching level 105 and should last for 90 days.

An ingame or external Tutorial on how to use a Countdown-Macro, when to use which Siegeware buff/debuff and music would be very valuable. I recommend an official video on Vimeo made by devs on how to use these skills.

Optionally, if a party successfully has all debuffs and buffs (Tamb+Lute/Guitar), Tactical Attack, Seeds/Void, Midnight Ritual and Storm Assault+2, reward the party with additional newbie items like Siege War Badge and free bufffood.

After the 90 days are over, most newbies now have had the chance to farm enough Coins to exchange for Siege-War Titles and have enough experience to play in highend-random parties.

Quote from robopoke

Modifiy the Newbie-Patch and rewards to give new players free tutorial music instruments and free Siege-War titles. For example there should be a Tutorial Storm Assault +2 with same cooldown and mechanics as real Storm Assault +2.

The tutorial Siege-War buffs/debuffs and tutorial Instruments should be given out after reaching level 105 and should last for 90 days.

Really good idea, I would even add those tutorial instruments to the starter bag, so newbies learn to use them early on for leveling or something Same for title skills, there could be some "tutorial skills" added to titles you get early on, so you get used to them from scratch...

You could also create a dedicated "tutorial quest (line)" about end game mechanics, which includes music, support class lessons (like pressing 3-4 skills on a temporarily available action bar and try to hit as many npc as possible as positioning training... or when to use shield skills to prevent huge damage. The player could be forced to protect npc with a barrier spell if a boss casts a certain skill.

Quote from robopoke

An ingame or external Tutorial on how to use a Countdown-Macro, when to use which Siegeware buff/debuff and music would be very valuable. I recommend an official video on Vimeo made by devs on how to use these skills.

Better let there be a forum event where players can submit these kind of tutorial videos, and the winning one will be linked in the wiki and the winner gets golden wings or such

При чем уважении, баланс полностью отсутствует. Люди бегают конкретными связками, потому что они имеют преимущество над другими. Классы просто делятся на 3 уровня. 1 уровень - топы(рог/колдун, вар/скаут), 2 уровень(перечислять не буду, но это классы которые еще хотя бы что-то могут), и 3 уровень - мертвые классы.

Система требует тотального баланса, рано еще говорить о ПВП, когда ПВЕ не готово от слова: "совсем".

Sincerely, there is no class balance. People play specific classes because they have an advantage over others. Classes are divided into 3 levels: 1 level - top ( r / wl , w / s), 2- (I will not list, but these classes, which, at least, can do something), and 3- dead classes. The system requires a total balance, it's too early to talk about PvP when PvE is not ready "at all"

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

При чем уважении, баланс полностью отсутствует. Люди бегают конкретными связками, потому что они имеют преимущество над другими. Классы просто делятся на 3 уровня. 1 уровень - топы(рог/колдун, вар/скаут), 2 уровень(перечислять не буду, но это классы которые еще хотя бы что-то могут), и 3 уровень - мертвые классы.

Система требует тотального баланса, рано еще говорить о ПВП, когда ПВЕ не готово от слова: "совсем".

at the moment the whole classes in game is way more balanced than like 5 years ago, when only a few combos will playable(w/m, s/wd, k/m and wl/m as support). all rogue combos are good right now, except r/p maybe. most of warrior combos are good, champions is not too bad also. mages is way different thing, but anyway they are good and +- has a same dps as others than like before, when mages was op. there is a few class combo like k/wl, that you can play with chain/leather/plate gear, d/wl dps class for priests. even scouts are good, but i think they should a lil bit buff it.

regarding pvp:

there is will be a new pvp system with own pvp items, stats, skills and etc. so, talking about pvp is not entirely appropriate at the moment, just my opinion.

Quote from Baboon

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

При чем уважении, баланс полностью отсутствует. Люди бегают конкретными связками, потому что они имеют преимущество над другими. Классы просто делятся на 3 уровня. 1 уровень - топы(рог/колдун, вар/скаут), 2 уровень(перечислять не буду, но это классы которые еще хотя бы что-то могут), и 3 уровень - мертвые классы.

Система требует тотального баланса, рано еще говорить о ПВП, когда ПВЕ не готово от слова: "совсем".

at the moment the whole classes in game is way more balanced than like 5 years ago, when only a few combos will playable(w/m, s/wd, k/m and wl/m as support). all rogue combos are good right now, except r/p maybe. most of warrior combos are good, champions is not too bad also. mages is way different thing, but anyway they are good and +- has a same dps as others than like before, when mages was op. there is a few class combo like k/wl, that you can play with chain/leather/plate gear, d/wl dps class for priests. even scouts are good, but i think they should a lil bit buff it.

regarding pvp:

there is will be a new pvp system with own pvp items, stats, skills and etc. so, talking about pvp is not entirely appropriate at the moment, just my opinion.

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Я не сравниваю с тем, что было когда-то, я сравниваю с точки зрения абсолютного баланса. Возможно, сейчас лучше чем когда-то - никто с этим не спорит, но то, что ПВЕ контент еще не готов(в рамках баланса классов) - это однозначно. Это я говорю как человек, который в прошлом сам занимался балансированием классов. Какой это был сервер - не суть, те кто меня знают, прекрасно поняли о чем речь, и пусть скажут, где баланс был лучше.

Да и суть не в этом, это говорится не для того, чтобы кого-то обидеть или спровоцировать, но своим опытным глазом я отчетливо могу сказать - далеки мы еще до того, чтобы назвать классы сбалансированными. Даже больше, можно сказать, что баланс классов прошел примерно 25-30% от 100%. Почему? Потому что в среднем 2-4 связки у одного класса играбельны, остальные 8 - никому не нужны(исправьте меня, если я ошибся, вроде бы 12 вариаций всего возможно для 1 класса).

Вывод - работы должно быть еще больше сделано, чем уже сделали.

Извиняюсь, если кто-то что-то поймет не так, так как ваши переводчики могут преподнести информацию иначе.

I don't compare with what it once was, I compare in terms of absolute balance. Perhaps now is better than it used to be - no one argues with this, but the fact that PVE content is not ready yet (within the framework of class balance) is unequivocal. I say this as a person who in the past himself was involved in class balancing. What kind of server it was is not the point, those who know me perfectly understood what it was about, and let them say where the balance was better.
Yes, and this is not the point, I do not want to offend or provoke anyone, but with my experienced eye I can clearly say - while we are still far away, to say that the classes are in balance. Even more, we can say that the balance of classes has moved approximately 25-30% of 100%. Why? Because on average in one class 2-4 bundles are playable, the remaining 8 are not needed by anyone (correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like 12 variations in total are possible for 1 class).
The conclusion is that more work needs to be done than has already been done.

I apologize if someone misunderstood something, as your translators may present information differently.

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Quote from Baboon

at the moment the whole classes in game is way more balanced than like 5 years ago, when only a few combos will playable(w/m, s/wd, k/m and wl/m as support). all rogue combos are good right now, except r/p maybe. most of warrior combos are good, champions is not too bad also. mages is way different thing, but anyway they are good and +- has a same dps as others than like before, when mages was op. there is a few class combo like k/wl, that you can play with chain/leather/plate gear, d/wl dps class for priests. even scouts are good, but i think they should a lil bit buff it.

regarding pvp:

there is will be a new pvp system with own pvp items, stats, skills and etc. so, talking about pvp is not entirely appropriate at the moment, just my opinion.

Я не сравниваю с тем, что было когда-то, я сравниваю с точки зрения абсолютного баланса. Возможно, сейчас лучше чем когда-то - никто с этим не спорит, но то, что ПВЕ контент еще не готов(в рамках баланса классов) - это однозначно. Это я говорю как человек, который в прошлом сам занимался балансированием классов. Какой это был сервер - не суть, те кто меня знают, прекрасно поняли о чем речь, и пусть скажут, где баланс был лучше.

Да и суть не в этом, это говорится не для того, чтобы кого-то обидеть или спровоцировать, но своим опытным глазом я отчетливо могу сказать - далеки мы еще до того, чтобы назвать классы сбалансированными. Даже больше, можно сказать, что баланс классов прошел примерно 25-30% от 100%. Почему? Потому что в среднем 2-4 связки у одного класса играбельны, остальные 8 - никому не нужны(исправьте меня, если я ошибся, вроде бы 12 вариаций всего возможно для 1 класса).

Вывод - работы должно быть еще больше сделано, чем уже сделали.

Извиняюсь, если кто-то что-то поймет не так, так как ваши переводчики могут преподнести информацию иначе.

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So... if you once was in balancing yourself, you should know that balancing is a process and never "done". In my opinion, for magical dps, healers and tanks in the endgame, all class combinations are playable and viable in the meta. Not every class is good in every instance, but overall you can play whatever you want and deal more or less the same damage/aggro/heal as others I have no idea about pdps, but who plays pdps in 2023?

For magical dps classes, maybe there are one or two that need a little nerf, but it's not like only a handful classes being viable at all... in the past I was talking really badly about balancing myself, too, but after a while (and by playing all magical classes myself on a higher level) I realized that it's actually not that bad at all. So lemme ask: What kind of content are you playing?

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Я не сравниваю с тем, что было когда-то, я сравниваю с точки зрения абсолютного баланса. Возможно, сейчас лучше чем когда-то - никто с этим не спорит, но то, что ПВЕ контент еще не готов(в рамках баланса классов) - это однозначно. Это я говорю как человек, который в прошлом сам занимался балансированием классов. Какой это был сервер - не суть, те кто меня знают, прекрасно поняли о чем речь, и пусть скажут, где баланс был лучше.

Да и суть не в этом, это говорится не для того, чтобы кого-то обидеть или спровоцировать, но своим опытным глазом я отчетливо могу сказать - далеки мы еще до того, чтобы назвать классы сбалансированными. Даже больше, можно сказать, что баланс классов прошел примерно 25-30% от 100%. Почему? Потому что в среднем 2-4 связки у одного класса играбельны, остальные 8 - никому не нужны(исправьте меня, если я ошибся, вроде бы 12 вариаций всего возможно для 1 класса).

Вывод - работы должно быть еще больше сделано, чем уже сделали.

Извиняюсь, если кто-то что-то поймет не так, так как ваши переводчики могут преподнести информацию иначе.

So... if you once was in balancing yourself, you should know that balancing is a process and never "done". In my opinion, for magical dps, healers and tanks in the endgame, all class combinations are playable and viable in the meta. Not every class is good in every instance, but overall you can play whatever you want and deal more or less the same damage/aggro/heal as others I have no idea about pdps, but who plays pdps in 2023?

For magical dps classes, maybe there are one or two that need a little nerf, but it's not like only a handful classes being viable at all... in the past I was talking really badly about balancing myself, too, but after a while (and by playing all magical classes myself on a higher level) I realized that it's actually not that bad at all. So lemme ask: What kind of content are you playing?

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Я извиняюсь, но вы говорите такие элементарные вещи, что можно было и вовсе не говорить.

Нет, я не знаю такого, что нельзя отбалансировать, и иметь пару связок, которые имеют дпс - это не баланс.

Все играют ДПС, не верите мне - посмотрите на людей, и каким классами они играют, все бегают +/- одинаковыми классами.

И 35% баланса, что имеет аркадия - нельзя называть "не все так плохо". Если, конечно, смотреть на это положительно, то - не всё так плохо, а если реально - то ничего сбалансированного в этом нет.

Я балансировал классовую систему Magic of Gods, и довел баланс до 90%, при этом, на сколько это возможно, сохранив классическую версию связок. По итогу, все играли разными классами, у всех рейдов были по своему собранные пати, все дд - разных классов, все танки - разные, даже хиллы. Вот что такое баланс, когда ты заходишь в данж и видишь абсолютно разный гринд пати. А не когда юзают один и те же связки, в надежде на больший дпс.

Без негатива, с уважением, Best.

Sorry, but you say such elementary things that you don't need to say at all.

No, I don't know of anything that can't be balanced, and having a couple of efficient classes is not a balance.

Everyone plays classes that do more damage, don't believe me - look at people and what classes they play, everyone runs +/- the same classes.
And 35% of the balance that arcadia has - cannot be called "not everything is so bad." If, of course, you look at it positively, then everything is not so bad, but if it is real, then there is nothing balanced in this.
I've balanced the Magic of Gods class system and brought the balance to 90%, while maintaining the classic version of the classes as much as possible. In the end, everyone played different classes, all raids had their own preferences, all damage dealers were different classes, all tanks were different, even healers. That's what balance is when you go into a dungeon and see a completely different grind party. And not when they use the same bundles, hoping for more damage.

Without negativity, with respect, Best.

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Quote from Zyrex

So... if you once was in balancing yourself, you should know that balancing is a process and never "done". In my opinion, for magical dps, healers and tanks in the endgame, all class combinations are playable and viable in the meta. Not every class is good in every instance, but overall you can play whatever you want and deal more or less the same damage/aggro/heal as others I have no idea about pdps, but who plays pdps in 2023?

For magical dps classes, maybe there are one or two that need a little nerf, but it's not like only a handful classes being viable at all... in the past I was talking really badly about balancing myself, too, but after a while (and by playing all magical classes myself on a higher level) I realized that it's actually not that bad at all. So lemme ask: What kind of content are you playing?

Я извиняюсь, но вы говорите такие элементарные вещи, что можно было и вовсе не говорить.

Нет, я не знаю такого, что нельзя отбалансировать, и иметь пару связок, которые имеют дпс - это не баланс.

Все играют ДПС, не верите мне - посмотрите на людей, и каким классами они играют, все бегают +/- одинаковыми классами.

И 35% баланса, что имеет аркадия - нельзя называть "не все так плохо". Если, конечно, смотреть на это положительно, то - не всё так плохо, а если реально - то ничего сбалансированного в этом нет.

Я балансировал классовую систему Magic of Gods, и довел баланс до 90%, при этом, на сколько это возможно, сохранив классическую версию связок. По итогу, все играли разными классами, у всех рейдов были по своему собранные пати, все дд - разных классов, все танки - разные, даже хиллы. Вот что такое баланс, когда ты заходишь в данж и видишь абсолютно разный гринд пати. А не когда юзают один и те же связки, в надежде на больший дпс.

Без негатива, с уважением, Best.

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Are you sure you're playing the same game as I do? You say, that on your previous server, all people were playing different classes, so do people here. If you see a dps player play only one class over and over again, I'd say it's not balancing's fault, but caused by the inadaptivity of that player to the endgame (or let's better call it laziness). I see a lot of players stick to only one class, that they were told to be "the strongest" but if you really analyze the gameplay properly, you'll see that there is not the one perfect solution for everything. For example, Mage/Warrior is a decent class with tons of magical damage and decent matt for burst. In theory, this class comes close to be the "perfect one for every content", but actually it isn't the best in slot class for everything at all. Even a Mage/Scout can easily out-damage it in instances with higher defences, since pet classes (almost) always beat non-pet classes

If you try to play the very "best in slot" class in every single instance, you simply have to play more than 4 classes at the minimum. If you even wanna run best in slot classes in every content (to include endgame minigames (such as AoD), nostalgia instances (such as Hoto, Kalin, IDK), event instances (such as Atlas Defence) or even grinding instances (such as IBP or souls) as well), you end up at even more. And if you additionally wanna actively adapt to your raid setup, in order to support your friends, there are more options available again. You can simply play every single magical damage dealer and find a raid setup that is best for it. COA is not about balancing single classes against each other, it's about how to properly build raids and double your overall damage just by class interactions and synergies...

To be honest, a lot of people seem not to understand how to properly build decent raids or optimized groups. They may run with the same classes over and over again, this works for sure, but isn't optimal by far. There are so many possibilities to improve the overall dps, damage reduction, healing, burst, CC, etc, by so many different ways, it's complex enough to start studies on

Example: You have 4 mdps players. All of them could play Mage/Warrior and every single one would deal decent damage. But what if one goes for Mage/Rogue, one goes for Warlock/Rogue, one for Warlock/Champ and one for druid/rogue? Then you got huge debuffs for dark damage, gift of the baron = dps, damage reduction, whisper = matt, and every single class deals more than M/W would have dealt without such synergy. In this example, your leather players could go for Rogue/Warlock, in order to get a piece of that huge dark damage support. Also, the druid/rogue brings druid buffs, so the healer could play something different, like warden/priest for even more support for the group, only by picking the right choices. And all of the classes deal equal damage 😱 That's how we play 6 man content and that's how you can run abbey within 20 minutes easily... instead of like an hour or more 🥵

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Я извиняюсь, но вы говорите такие элементарные вещи, что можно было и вовсе не говорить.

Нет, я не знаю такого, что нельзя отбалансировать, и иметь пару связок, которые имеют дпс - это не баланс.

Все играют ДПС, не верите мне - посмотрите на людей, и каким классами они играют, все бегают +/- одинаковыми классами.

И 35% баланса, что имеет аркадия - нельзя называть "не все так плохо". Если, конечно, смотреть на это положительно, то - не всё так плохо, а если реально - то ничего сбалансированного в этом нет.

Я балансировал классовую систему Magic of Gods, и довел баланс до 90%, при этом, на сколько это возможно, сохранив классическую версию связок. По итогу, все играли разными классами, у всех рейдов были по своему собранные пати, все дд - разных классов, все танки - разные, даже хиллы. Вот что такое баланс, когда ты заходишь в данж и видишь абсолютно разный гринд пати. А не когда юзают один и те же связки, в надежде на больший дпс.

Без негатива, с уважением, Best.

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Are you sure you're playing the same game as I do? You say, that on your previous server, all people were playing different classes, so do people here. If you see a dps player play only one class over and over again, I'd say it's not balancing's fault, but caused by the inadaptivity of that player to the endgame (or let's better call it laziness). I see a lot of players stick to only one class, that they were told to be "the strongest" but if you really analyze the gameplay properly, you'll see that there is not the one perfect solution for everything. For example, Mage/Warrior is a decent class with tons of magical damage and decent matt for burst. In theory, this class comes close to be the "perfect one for every content", but actually it isn't the best in slot class for everything at all. Even a Mage/Scout can easily out-damage it in instances with higher defences, since pet classes (almost) always beat non-pet classes

If you try to play the very "best in slot" class in every single instance, you simply have to play more than 4 classes at the minimum. If you even wanna run best in slot classes in every content (to include endgame minigames (such as AoD), nostalgia instances (such as Hoto, Kalin, IDK), event instances (such as Atlas Defence) or even grinding instances (such as IBP or souls) as well), you end up at even more. And if you additionally wanna actively adapt to your raid setup, in order to support your friends, there are more options available again. You can simply play every single magical damage dealer and find a raid setup that is best for it. COA is not about balancing single classes against each other, it's about how to properly build raids and double your overall damage just by class interactions and synergies...

To be honest, a lot of people seem not to understand how to properly build decent raids or optimized groups. They may run with the same classes over and over again, this works for sure, but isn't optimal by far. There are so many possibilities to improve the overall dps, damage reduction, healing, burst, CC, etc, by so many different ways, it's complex enough to start studies on

Example: You have 4 mdps players. All of them could play Mage/Warrior and every single one would deal decent damage. But what if one goes for Mage/Rogue, one goes for Warlock/Rogue, one for Warlock/Champ and one for druid/rogue? Then you got huge debuffs for dark damage, gift of the baron = dps, damage reduction, whisper = matt, and every single class deals more than M/W would have dealt without such synergy. In this example, your leather players could go for Rogue/Warlock, in order to get a piece of that huge dark damage support. Also, the druid/rogue brings druid buffs, so the healer could play something different, like warden/priest for even more support for the group, only by picking the right choices. And all of the classes deal equal damage 😱 That's how we play 6 man content and that's how you can run abbey within 20 minutes easily... instead of like an hour or more 🥵

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Мы сейчас не говорим о вариациях рейдов, и подстраиваемости всего рейда под 3-4 дд. Мы говорим о балансе. А вы говорите о типах классов, иными словами: дд, танк, хил, саппорт, нюкер, сейвер, баффер, и утверждение, что между ними не может быть баланса, например, саппорт не может бить как дд, или дд не может танчить как танк - идиоту понятно. Поэтому давайте четко по теме, без ненужной информации.

В каждой из категорий - есть свои доминанты, на фоне которых остальные меркнут, по разным причинам: имеют не более мощный дамаг, а продолжительный, разгоняют не урон, а атаку и так далее. Как не крути - нету баланса.

А на вопрос о том, в одну ли мы игру играем - хороший вопрос, видимо, не в одну Вам еще осталось в пример привести мага, назвав его крутым классом, потому что мобов быстро можно убивать штормом

We are not talking about raid variations now, and the adjustability of the entire raid under 3-4 dd. We're talking about balance. And you are talking about class types, in other words: dd, tank, heal, support, nuker, saver, buffer, and the statement that there can be no balance between them, for example, support cannot hit like dd, or dd cannot tank like tank - an idiot understands. Therefore, let's be clear on the topic, without unnecessary information.
Each of the categories has its own dominants, against which the rest pale for various reasons: they do not have more powerful damage, but long-term, they do not increase damage, but increase attack power, and so on. Either way, there is no balance.
And to the question of whether we play the same game - a good question, apparently, not in one You still have to give an example of a magician, calling him a cool class, because mobs can be quickly killed by a storm

This is rly bad to write and not puting in an english translation so i cant read it or i am just to lazy to use translator for all of this text... I would sugest to add english translation

Quote from Elipso

This is rly bad to write and not puting in an english translation so i cant read it or i am just to lazy to use translator for all of this text... I would sugest to add english translation

Yes brother, interethnic communication has always been a difficulty :)brother, interethnic communication has always been a difficulty

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Quote from Zyrex

Are you sure you're playing the same game as I do? You say, that on your previous server, all people were playing different classes, so do people here. If you see a dps player play only one class over and over again, I'd say it's not balancing's fault, but caused by the inadaptivity of that player to the endgame (or let's better call it laziness). I see a lot of players stick to only one class, that they were told to be "the strongest" but if you really analyze the gameplay properly, you'll see that there is not the one perfect solution for everything. For example, Mage/Warrior is a decent class with tons of magical damage and decent matt for burst. In theory, this class comes close to be the "perfect one for every content", but actually it isn't the best in slot class for everything at all. Even a Mage/Scout can easily out-damage it in instances with higher defences, since pet classes (almost) always beat non-pet classes

If you try to play the very "best in slot" class in every single instance, you simply have to play more than 4 classes at the minimum. If you even wanna run best in slot classes in every content (to include endgame minigames (such as AoD), nostalgia instances (such as Hoto, Kalin, IDK), event instances (such as Atlas Defence) or even grinding instances (such as IBP or souls) as well), you end up at even more. And if you additionally wanna actively adapt to your raid setup, in order to support your friends, there are more options available again. You can simply play every single magical damage dealer and find a raid setup that is best for it. COA is not about balancing single classes against each other, it's about how to properly build raids and double your overall damage just by class interactions and synergies...

To be honest, a lot of people seem not to understand how to properly build decent raids or optimized groups. They may run with the same classes over and over again, this works for sure, but isn't optimal by far. There are so many possibilities to improve the overall dps, damage reduction, healing, burst, CC, etc, by so many different ways, it's complex enough to start studies on

Example: You have 4 mdps players. All of them could play Mage/Warrior and every single one would deal decent damage. But what if one goes for Mage/Rogue, one goes for Warlock/Rogue, one for Warlock/Champ and one for druid/rogue? Then you got huge debuffs for dark damage, gift of the baron = dps, damage reduction, whisper = matt, and every single class deals more than M/W would have dealt without such synergy. In this example, your leather players could go for Rogue/Warlock, in order to get a piece of that huge dark damage support. Also, the druid/rogue brings druid buffs, so the healer could play something different, like warden/priest for even more support for the group, only by picking the right choices. And all of the classes deal equal damage 😱 That's how we play 6 man content and that's how you can run abbey within 20 minutes easily... instead of like an hour or more 🥵

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Мы сейчас не говорим о вариациях рейдов, и подстраиваемости всего рейда под 3-4 дд. Мы говорим о балансе. А вы говорите о типах классов, иными словами: дд, танк, хил, саппорт, нюкер, сейвер, баффер, и утверждение, что между ними не может быть баланса, например, саппорт не может бить как дд, или дд не может танчить как танк - идиоту понятно. Поэтому давайте четко по теме, без ненужной информации.

В каждой из категорий - есть свои доминанты, на фоне которых остальные меркнут, по разным причинам: имеют не более мощный дамаг, а продолжительный, разгоняют не урон, а атаку и так далее. Как не крути - нету баланса.

А на вопрос о том, в одну ли мы игру играем - хороший вопрос, видимо, не в одну Вам еще осталось в пример привести мага, назвав его крутым классом, потому что мобов быстро можно убивать штормом

We are not talking about raid variations now, and the adjustability of the entire raid under 3-4 dps. We're talking about balance. And you are talking about class types, in other words: dd, tank, heal, support, nuker, saver, buffer, and the statement that there can be no balance between them, for example, support cannot hit like dd, or dd cannot tank like tank - an idiot understands. Therefore, let's be clear on the topic, without unnecessary information.
Each of the categories has its own dominants, against which the rest pale for various reasons: they do not have more powerful damage, but long-term, they do not increase damage, but increase attack power, and so on. Either way, there is no balance.
And to the question of whether we play the same game - a good question, apparently, not in one You still have to give an example of a magician, calling him a cool class, because mobs can be quickly killed by a storm

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Ok, so you haven't actually played the game, your main char is not even max level (as it seems in your streams) and you haven't been into an instance at all yet and state that balancing is bad?

Quote from Zyrex

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Мы сейчас не говорим о вариациях рейдов, и подстраиваемости всего рейда под 3-4 дд. Мы говорим о балансе. А вы говорите о типах классов, иными словами: дд, танк, хил, саппорт, нюкер, сейвер, баффер, и утверждение, что между ними не может быть баланса, например, саппорт не может бить как дд, или дд не может танчить как танк - идиоту понятно. Поэтому давайте четко по теме, без ненужной информации.

В каждой из категорий - есть свои доминанты, на фоне которых остальные меркнут, по разным причинам: имеют не более мощный дамаг, а продолжительный, разгоняют не урон, а атаку и так далее. Как не крути - нету баланса.

А на вопрос о том, в одну ли мы игру играем - хороший вопрос, видимо, не в одну Вам еще осталось в пример привести мага, назвав его крутым классом, потому что мобов быстро можно убивать штормом

We are not talking about raid variations now, and the adjustability of the entire raid under 3-4 dps. We're talking about balance. And you are talking about class types, in other words: dd, tank, heal, support, nuker, saver, buffer, and the statement that there can be no balance between them, for example, support cannot hit like dd, or dd cannot tank like tank - an idiot understands. Therefore, let's be clear on the topic, without unnecessary information.
Each of the categories has its own dominants, against which the rest pale for various reasons: they do not have more powerful damage, but long-term, they do not increase damage, but increase attack power, and so on. Either way, there is no balance.
And to the question of whether we play the same game - a good question, apparently, not in one You still have to give an example of a magician, calling him a cool class, because mobs can be quickly killed by a storm

Ok, so you haven't actually played the game, your main char is not even max level (as it seems in your streams) and you haven't been into an instance at all yet and state that balancing is bad? Please someone remove this troll...

Я вроде нормально с тобой общаюсь, без каких-либо переходов на личность и оскорблений, а ты позволяешь себе лишнее. Перестань это делать, ибо если это начну я - ты будешь жаловаться в техническую поддержку.

Мне не нужно играть, юзать, чтобы понимать - это называется опыт, которого у тебя нет.

I seem to communicate normally with you, without any insults, but you allow yourself too much. Stop doing this, because if I communicate the same way, you will complain to technical support.

I do not need to play, use, understand - this is called experience.

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

I do not need to play, use, understand - this is called experience.

You don't test anything before complaining?

Quote from Madox

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

I do not need to play, use, understand - this is called experience.

You don't test anything before complaining?

Это не жалобы, а констатация фактов. Если бы это было что-то сложное, требующие измучивающих тестов - одно дело, а это видно невооруженным взглядом. Просто элементарно, если спросить игроков какой связкой играть на том или ином классе - сразу слышишь ответы, люди даже раздумывают Почему? Потому что, повторюсь, здесь нечего проверять.

These are not complaints, but a statement of facts. If it was something complex, requiring verification, it's one thing, but it's visible to the naked eye. It's just elementary, if you ask the players what combo to play on a particular class - you immediately hear the answers, people don't even think about it Because, I repeat, there is nothing to check here.

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Quote from Madox

You don't test anything before complaining?

Это не жалобы, а констатация фактов. Если бы это было что-то сложное, требующие измучивающих тестов - одно дело, а это видно невооруженным взглядом. Просто элементарно, если спросить игроков какой связкой играть на том или ином классе - сразу слышишь ответы, люди даже раздумывают Почему? Потому что, повторюсь, здесь нечего проверять.

well, and who did you ask? maaaan....you are so funny, while do quests you already know whats class is balanced and whats not, even not being in instance, except malatins....better ask Zyrex, Kaga, Lutine, Black or someone else about class balance, but Zyrex told you before, how we builds raids and etc. As rogue player i can tell that all rogues combination are good.

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Quote from Madox

You don't test anything before complaining?

Это не жалобы, а констатация фактов. Если бы это было что-то сложное, требующие измучивающих тестов - одно дело, а это видно невооруженным взглядом. Просто элементарно, если спросить игроков какой связкой играть на том или ином классе - сразу слышишь ответы, люди даже раздумывают Почему? Потому что, повторюсь, здесь нечего проверять.

These are not complaints, but a statement of facts. If it was something complex, requiring verification, it's one thing, but it's visible to the naked eye. It's just elementary, if you ask the players what combo to play on a particular class - you immediately hear the answers, people don't even think about it Because, I repeat, there is nothing to check here.

"statement of facts" is interesting way of describing it , i am curious where you checked that fact as i see you just reached max level.
from my experience with leather classes , most are viable / have a use for instances except maybe 3 or 4 out of 30?+ combinations.

Edit :" if you ask the players what combo to play on a particular class - you immediately hear the answers, people don't even hink about it" i guess test it for yourself before you comment on such topic relying completly on other players

Quote from Cruvor

Quote from Derzkiiamir05

Это не жалобы, а констатация фактов. Если бы это было что-то сложное, требующие измучивающих тестов - одно дело, а это видно невооруженным взглядом. Просто элементарно, если спросить игроков какой связкой играть на том или ином классе - сразу слышишь ответы, люди даже раздумывают Почему? Потому что, повторюсь, здесь нечего проверять.

These are not complaints, but a statement of facts. If it was something complex, requiring verification, it's one thing, but it's visible to the naked eye. It's just elementary, if you ask the players what combo to play on a particular class - you immediately hear the answers, people don't even think about it Because, I repeat, there is nothing to check here.

"statement of facts" is interesting way of describing it , i am curious where you checked that fact as i see you just reached max level.
from my experience with leather classes , most are viable / have a use for instances except maybe 3 or 4 out of 30?+ combinations.

Edit :" if you ask the players what combo to play on a particular class - you immediately hear the answers, people don't even hink about it" i guess test it for yourself before you comment on such topic relying completly on other players

Я не полагаюсь на других игроков, а делаю выводы. Также понимаю, что 95% игроков просто не смогут выдать полноценный потенциал класса. Иными словами, даже те имбалансные классы, которые сейчас имеются - не используются в полную силу. Разница, в любых руках, ощетима, и если человек берет один класс, бьет им неплохо, и берет другой, и бьет хорошо - то смело можно сделать вывод, что разница имеется.

Я же, в свою очередь, имеют настолько сильный опыт в рамках балансирования классов, что могу примерно сказать, как класс будет бить, прочитав его скиллы. Более того, боюсь в моих руках многие играбельные связки покажутся невообразимо сильными. Я не восхваляю себя, а просто привожу сам факт того, что многие игроки просто не могут играть нормально, и если для них разница между классами 15-20% в дамаге, к примеру, то у таких игроков как я - это разница будет доходить чуть ли не до 40%.

И поймите уже наконец, что человеку, который имеет опыт в этом - достаточно услышать мнение людей и прочитать скиллы, и всё становится понятным. Для аргументации своих слов добавлю, что если кто-то играет разбойником, или скаутом, или еще кем-то, то я спокойно орудую 95% связок в этой игре. На Аркадии, конечно, есть уникальный связки и классы, по типу барда и т.д., которые я, само собой, не могу знать, это я тоже узнаю достаточно быстро.

С уважением, Best.

--

I'm not relying on other players, I'm drawing conclusions. I also realize that 95% of players will simply not be able to give out the full potential of a class. In other words, even those imbalanced classes that are available now are not being used to their full potential. The difference, in any hands, is palpable, and if a person takes one class, beats it not bad, and takes another, and beats well - then we can safely conclude that there is a difference.

I, in turn, have such a strong experience within the framework of balancing classes that I can roughly tell how a class will hit by reading its skils. Moreover, I'm afraid in my hands many playable bundles will seem unimaginably strong. I'm not praising myself, but just bring the fact that many players simply can not play normally, and if for them the difference between the classes 15-20% in damage, for example, for players like me - this difference will reach almost 40%.

And finally realize that a person who has experience in this - it is enough to hear people's opinions and read the skills, and everything becomes clear. To substantiate my words, I will add that if someone plays a brigand, or a scout, or something else, I calmly wield 95% of the bundles in this game. On Arcadia, of course, there are unique bundles and classes, such as bard, etc., which I, of course, can not know, I also learn this quickly enough.

Regards, Best.

Buff Warden tanks please