Warrior Class [Feedback]

Quote from robopoke

Quote from Madman

Using 1 gcd every 7-8 seconds to get 30m+ bleeds doesn’t seem like a big tradeoff to me on other warriors I would take that deal all day long.

For w/ch and w/d I agree that a bleed with permanent uptime and no consequences can be too strong and I am open to Seren’s suggestion to half the dmg or other suggestions.

Using flawless slash on my video wouldn’t add any value to the video the hole point is that using 1 slash per second denies bleed from proc’ing.

The tradeoff is some bosses or mobs die so fast that for example Warrior/Scout is better of using high DPS skills. If you know target will survive bleed procs, then Slash early makes sense. But that delays high DPS skills => tradeoff and Player has to decide which macro to use.

If Warrior/Champ and Warrior/Druid get the Update based on your post it is without tradeoff, because no brain Power and decision fatigue needed.

I hope we agree here.

Regarding implementing a fair tradeoff:

Seren actually suggested half DMG with 1 sec Bleedproc which results in equal DPS to regular DMG with 2 sec proc. I disagree with this as well.

I think a fair tradeoff would be your first suggestion but with half dmg.

Or Serens suggestion with 1 sec bleed proc but 25% original Bleedproc DMG (equals 50% bleeddmg with 2 sec proc).

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Yep I totally agree with you in the outcome there for w/ch and w/d, and I would be fine with either one of the suggestions.

My point about wasting 1 gcd tradeoff being a no brainer too is true in pretty much all relatively higher inis like a DC b4 burst or Nom hm bosses… and in those situations is where bleed makes most difference anyway imho.

Quote from Madman

Quote from robopoke

The tradeoff is some bosses or mobs die so fast that for example Warrior/Scout is better of using high DPS skills. If you know target will survive bleed procs, then Slash early makes sense. But that delays high DPS skills => tradeoff and Player has to decide which macro to use.

If Warrior/Champ and Warrior/Druid get the Update based on your post it is without tradeoff, because no brain Power and decision fatigue needed.

I hope we agree here.

Regarding implementing a fair tradeoff:

Seren actually suggested half DMG with 1 sec Bleedproc which results in equal DPS to regular DMG with 2 sec proc. I disagree with this as well.

I think a fair tradeoff would be your first suggestion but with half dmg.

Or Serens suggestion with 1 sec bleed proc but 25% original Bleedproc DMG (equals 50% bleeddmg with 2 sec proc).

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Yep I totally agree with you in the outcome there for w/ch and w/d, and I would be fine with either one of the suggestions.

My point about wasting 1 gcd tradeoff being a no brainer too is true in pretty much all relatively higher inis like a DC b4 burst or Nom hm bosses… and in those situations is where bleed makes most difference anyway imho.

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Since we agree here a little summary for clarity if devs decide to implement this for Slash on Warrior/Champ and Warrior/Druid:

1) Reduce bleed proc for those Slashes from 2 seconds to 1 second and reduce the bleed dmg to 25% of the current value

OR

2) Stop bleed timer from resetting, and have it proc on target as long as the debuff is active but nerf bleed damage to 50% of current value.

I prefer 1) because I think it would be easier to implement.

Overall this update would allow Warrior/Champ and Warrior/Druid to finally make use of Bleeddmg from Slash but with a tradeoff so they do not become overpowered.

On Warrior/Druid.

The skill "The last resistance" (494036) is bugged.

It is supposed to make stacks from Stiffle (499499) unconsumed on the next use while the buff is active, however, if you already had some stacks of Stifle left, the skill goes into cd and your stacks get consumed too.

The only workaround is to try to remove the stifle stacks you have before using the skill, these stacks can't be removed from the player buff bar UI nor via CancelPlayerBuff(x), and in some situations, you have no target to hit to remove the stacks so you have to wait until Stifle buff wears off otherwise you sacrifice a big portion of your burst dmg.

Quote from Byte

Quote from Madman

On Warrior/Druid.

The skill "The last resistance" (494036) is bugged.

It is supposed to make stacks from Stiffle (499499) unconsumed on the next use while the buff is active, however, if you already had some stacks of Stifle left, the skill goes into cd and your stacks get consumed too.

The only workaround is to try to remove the stifle stacks you have before using the skill, these stacks can't be removed from the player buff bar UI nor via CancelPlayerBuff(x), and in some situations, you have no target to hit to remove the stacks so you have to wait until Stifle buff wears off otherwise you sacrifice a big portion of your burst dmg.

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This is not a bug. Skill clearly says that it will make Stifle be not consumable if used while this effect is active, it won't be changed, but buff will be cancelable next patch. If you think there is a translation issue, let me know.

Greetings

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That’s the hole point. It says “ it will make stiffle not consumable” but the stacks are getting consumed after using it on the video xD

Changing the skill to be cancelable is a workaround but not a fix.

Normal behavior should be: if you have the buff active, next stifle should give 15 stacks and KEEP them for the hole up-time of the buff regardless of how many stacks you had before.

The description is fine. I still think that’s a bug that needs to be addressed.
EDIT: Let me break down the video in case I haven't expressed myself clearly enough.
Here you can see I have the "the last resistance" buff on and 13 stacks from stifle left

The expectation is that the next stifle refreshes the number of stucks to 15 and the stacks don't get consumed right?
well that's not what happened (on the second 16+) "the last resistance" enterred CD as seen in the screenshot below, and my stifle stacks kept getting consumed as I attacked.

I'd like to share my perspective on the Warrior's Bleed skill "Slash." In my opinion, this bleed effect requires necessary adjustments.

This bleed effect becomes extremly strong in two specific scenarios:

1-Burst against any target with an immune effect in the middle of a fight.

This issue is the most troublesome aspect of this bleed effect. Even classes that aren't supposed to benefit from it are experiencing considerable damage contributions. Classes like the Warrior/Druid, known for their insanely high burst damage and perhaps the strongest single-target physical DPS in the game, shouldn't benefit from the bleed proc effect. However, the bleed is contributing an additional +20% overall damage during bursts due to its four procs when the boss is immune. In such situations, not only do you gain an unintended advantage, but you also put the tank in a challenging position since the Warrior is building aggro when the boss is immune. This situation ruins as well the overall competition among other DPS classes,

The solution is straightforward: Remove all debuffs from boss, especially the bleed effect from the boss, immediately after the boss becomes immune.

2-Burst against a boss with exceptionally high defense (e.g., the 4th boss in DC when you skip the event) or most single-target bosses in nostalgic instances.

In such cases, you face significant challenges, especially as a Scout. In my opinion, the only two scout classes that stand a slight chance to compete are Scout/Mage and Scout/Warrior. Even with Rogue, competing is only possible if the boss takes longer than 25-23 seconds or when we don't receive enough (attackspeed/patk buffs), since Rogues generally have higher sustain compared to other classes. The primary solution lies in slightly nerfing the bleed. The issue with the bleed is its exclusive reliance on your current damage (physical damage/attack speed) and your current Patk, without considering a boss's crit resistance or defense. This makes it extremely challenging for other classes, particularly Scouts, who are meant to be strong burst classes but are rendered practically useless in the current state

It is not a secret, that Scouts are just terrible. The only times Scouts were a threat from my experience is when they have T17/T18 weapons and even then, they struggle to keep up in most cases.

The range dps formula benefits less from attackspeed buffs. While melee weapons get ~33% more dps from Strong Stimulant, ranged weapons get a portion from it. To be more precise, atkspeed buffs get more valuable, the faster you already are. However, even in best case (as in going from 0.66 to 0.5 with Strong Stim) the damageboost does not exceed 33%. I believe that an adjustment of ranged dps formula to make it more meleelike is beneficial.

I agree, that Warrior Slash is very strong. I remember making a post ~6 monthes ago how I was able to kill 4 Organs in ROFL without even using Food and with IBW still being on CD.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Bleed is so op, that even Warrior/Scout uses Spear in burst over Katana to get the additional 700% Bleed scaling. But I still support Warrior/Champ and Warrior/Druid to be adjusted, so that they can make use of Slash even vs one target with tradeoffs specified in post #77 in this thread. I think your suggestions to clean up debuffs if target is immune is good enough for now.

You said, DoT is especially strong vs high defense targets. I would say that high critical resistance and high % dmg mitigation makes DoT very strong, instead. But I think it is fine if vs some bosses some skills or classes are stronger than others.

On the other hand, Rogues with max stack Perfect Slices which takes at least 10 seconds and requires perfect timing and a target to stack against do like 5-10% overall dmg with bleed.However, devs seem to not be interested in this discrepancy or seem to have other priorities right now. Imo Katana bleeds should be much stronger to encourage players to not just spam Dagger+WB Offhand (main reason I dislike Rogue now because Katana is high risk 0 reward.)

solution = remove katana

I'm referring to the bleed-scaling caused by spear though, not the bleed proc associated with a katana.

Yeah, warriors bleed is so over power, 24m per 2 sec while bursting - thats a lot damage.

Quote from Baboon

Yeah, warriors bleed is so over power, 24m per 2 sec while bursting - thats a lot damage.

i mean there is more possible but i agree with it. But as blackkid said bleeding should not count dmg when boss is immune like b2 rofl

I won't get into the immunity cleaning change since everyone seems to agree on it, but I'd like to explain why the bleed effect from the warrior's slash ability is seriously Broken.

Consider a melee ability in the game; it typically deals 'a%' main hand weapon DPS, where 'a' is a constant number. However, the bleed effect from the slash is different—it's pretty much like a skill that inflicts 'x%' Main Hand weapon DPS, where 'x' adjusts based on your current Damage/Patk. This essentially creates an ability with infinite scaling, triggering automatically every 2 seconds without activating GCD. What's intersting is that when your Patk exceeds a specific threshold, the 'x' scaling becomes significantly higher.

If anyone doubts that the Bleed isn't overpowered, consider this scenario: picture the launch of future content where the new set enhances your raw Patk by a minimum of 20k, along with new weapons, cards, the Dot rune, and additional DMG/Patk from Supports buffs. Now, add an instance like Necro, featuring minimal trash mobs/big pulls, where the primary damage contribution emerges from single-target bursts...

It's undeniable that the bleed effect hardly makes an impact in most scenarios—except for the two situations I previously mentioned. Even if the slash's bleed were removed or its damage formula altered to resemble that of rogue or scout bleeding effects, it wouldn't significantly affect warriors due to the class's single/AoE burst potenial. However, if developers continue introducing instances like Necro or WB with the current Mechanic , an adjustment to the bleed's Forumla becomes crucial. because

literally in such situations no class will stand chance to compete.

Quote from moncef

I won't get into the immunity cleaning change since everyone seems to agree on it, but I'd like to explain why the bleed effect from the warrior's slash ability is seriously Broken.

Consider a melee ability in the game; it typically deals 'a%' main hand weapon DPS, where 'a' is a constant number. However, the bleed effect from the slash is different—it's pretty much like a skill that inflicts 'x%' Main Hand weapon DPS, where 'x' adjusts based on your current Damage/Patk. This essentially creates an ability with infinite scaling, triggering automatically every 2 seconds without activating GCD. What's intersting is that when your Patk exceeds a specific threshold, the 'x' scaling becomes significantly higher.

If anyone doubts that the Bleed isn't overpowered, consider this scenario: picture the launch of future content where the new set enhances your raw Patk by a minimum of 20k, along with new weapons, cards, the Dot rune, and additional DMG/Patk from Supports buffs. Now, add an instance like Necro, featuring minimal trash mobs/big pulls, where the primary damage contribution emerges from single-target bursts...

It's undeniable that the bleed effect hardly makes an impact in most scenarios—except for the two situations I previously mentioned. Even if the slash's bleed were removed or its damage formula altered to resemble that of rogue or scout bleeding effects, it wouldn't significantly affect warriors due to the class's single/AoE burst potenial. However, if developers continue introducing instances like Necro or WB with the current Mechanic , an adjustment to the bleed's Forumla becomes crucial. because

literally in such situations no class will stand chance to compete.

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I have seen 51kk DoTs from Slash with a Katana which means from my understanding it is a 2.83kk DoT and Katana scaled it by x18.

I do realize Slash DoT is very weak in testing vs Doll which makes me believe that Slash DoT is x% and not a%. But it seems to scale from whatever minimum to a maximum of 1800% after certain Patk threshold(s) and to 2500% with Spear, respectively.

I think for the sake of simplicity, a simple negation of DoT vs immune Targets is sufficient considering devs probably have a lot on their mind right now. We as players should promote the easiest and most effective suggestions.

If we as players see that devs are actually actively listening and agree on things players seems to agree on like negate Bleed dmg vs immune Targets over turkish loca issues, then it makes most sense to dibble into the details on how to balance Slash in a way that is fair.

Spoiler: I think Slash is fine, if devs buff Perfect Slice, Vampire Arrow and other DoTs like Druid/Rogues Corrosive Poison, Warlock/Rogues Shadow Stab etc..

Regarding to warrior/mage

Since DEVs changed this class to only use 2-h magical sword, we are playing with 1x recon rune only. I play with -81% aggro with both warrior 85 iss and priest 55 iss. And that is not enough. This class has really high aggro in single target. Can you make this skill reduce our aggro by 30% ? It would be awesome i think.

#### Warrior/Champion

• Changed Vendetta Blow to require 2-H Hammer, changed damage type to physical blunt.
• Changed Bloody Slash → Bloody Strike to require 2-H Hammer, changed damage type to physical blunt.
• Changed Stifling Attack to require 2-H Hammer.
• Increased Unbridled Rage stats to 19.6% from 16%.

These are exciting changes! Quick thoughts:

1. Rage management is a bit tough without Katana, esp AoE.

2. 2h Hammer does 0 bleed dmg which makes sense but you lose on overall perfomance. The buff with Unbridlled Rage seems to aim to compensate that.

Suggestion:

Change Shock Strike to cost HP instead of Rage.

Edit:

Since we lost Slash Bleed damage can you fix Whirlwind DoT from magical to physical?

Quote

Warrior

• Changed Slash bleed to include target’s physical defense into its calculation.

IMHO this change officially killed Spear (a weapon specialized in bleed. You might as well delete it from the game). There is no motive anymore to sacrifice 1 gcd to apply your (single target) bleed when all your other skills hit harder.


Warrior/scout was not heavily impacted because its single target burst is still very good without bleeding and because it can wear 2 corrupted weapons. However, other warriors will fall off a lot in single target sustain/burst.
Some warriors rely on bleed to keep up in aoe too by rotating slash on multiple targets due to bad aoe sustain against other classes (while some other classes can apply aoe dots with one skill) There are other ways to balance Slash bleed other than what's in patch notes atm.

- If boss/mobs dot reduction is not working as intended, fix it.
- If Bleed is doing too much dmg, reduce the dmg multiplier from the formula instead of making Bleed act like a normal skill.

Quote from Madman

IMHO this change officially killed Spear (a weapon specialized in bleed. You might as well delete it from the game). There is no motive anymore to sacrifice 1 gcd to apply your (single target) bleed when all your other skills hit harder.


Warrior/scout was not heavily impacted because its single target burst is still very good without bleeding and because it can wear 2 corrupted weapons. However, other warriors will fall off a lot in single target sustain/burst.
Some warriors rely on bleed to keep up in aoe too by rotating slash on multiple targets due to bad aoe sustain against other classes (while some other classes can apply aoe dots with one skill) There are other ways to balance Slash bleed other than what's in patch notes atm.

- If boss/mobs dot reduction is not working as intended, fix it.
- If Bleed is doing too much dmg, reduce the dmg multiplier from the formula instead of making Bleed act like a normal skill.

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You are right, bleed should always be used. But maybe target's 80% of defense should be ignored by our bleed. When it ignoes 100% def, it becomes too powerful

Quote from Madman

Quote

Warrior

• Changed Slash bleed to include target’s physical defense into its calculation.

IMHO this change officially killed Spear (a weapon specialized in bleed. You might as well delete it from the game). There is no motive anymore to sacrifice 1 gcd to apply your (single target) bleed when all your other skills hit harder.


Warrior/scout was not heavily impacted because its single target burst is still very good without bleeding and because it can wear 2 corrupted weapons. However, other warriors will fall off a lot in single target sustain/burst.
Some warriors rely on bleed to keep up in aoe too by rotating slash on multiple targets due to bad aoe sustain against other classes (while some other classes can apply aoe dots with one skill) There are other ways to balance Slash bleed other than what's in patch notes atm.

- If boss/mobs dot reduction is not working as intended, fix it.
- If Bleed is doing too much dmg, reduce the dmg multiplier from the formula instead of making Bleed act like a normal skill.

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I 100% agree. + Bleed was a way to compete with other classes.

Yeah 56kk tick from bleed that’s normal, finally they did that change

Quote from Baboon

Yeah 56kk tick from bleed that’s normal, finally they did that change

Bleed dmg never exceeded 20-30% of total overall dmg (and that’s if you play spear 90% of the times and put slash on every target) So you will still get beaten in runs by good warriors 😂 I wonder what your next excuse will be. Cheers 🥂

EDIT: Also burst bleed is still strong, with pdef debuffs on bosses so what you are complaining about was not fixed

Quote from Madman

Quote from Baboon

Yeah 56kk tick from bleed that’s normal, finally they did that change

Bleed dmg never exceeded 20-30% of total overall dmg (and that’s if you play spear 90% of the times and put slash on every target) So you will still get beaten in runs by good warriors 😂 I wonder what your next excuse will be. Cheers 🥂

EDIT: Also burst bleed is still strong, with pdef debuffs on bosses so what you are complaining about was not fixed

ofc it never exceed above 20-30%, because bleed is sustain damage, warriors on wb show themself when bleed stay at the top of others skills and not only wb, every long combat. the discussion about the bleeding of warriors has been going on for a long time and now its nerfed. when bleed ignoring 100% of def, can hit through immune stages and had above 50kk damage per tick, it should be get nerf and was nerfed.

if u wanna talk about "get beaten by a good warrior" that why u crying when t10 rogue beats you with katana and you running to forum and starts write that devs should randomize perfect slice proc, cause it easy to stack and gives too much benefits for rogues...dont you?

Hi,

A few thoughts about the latest warrior changes.

I like the fact that the direction we are taking is to make some warriors more powerful with specific types of weapons. I was never a fan of "make one katana and play all warriors" meta. so big thumbs up for this.

Spear Bleed with Long Reach(1492407) : The hit range (Fan-shaped was never a good mechanic imho) is very small and the dmg output is very low vs the positioning it requires + harder rage management with spear.

Now let's discuss Warrior/Warlock, it seems to me that the trend now is: you want to buff a class, you give it a dot... which is not very fun to play against (nor with it tbh). "Spirit Wound" dot does too much dmg and coupling it with Spirit Blade Storm is just too much. Bleed used to do 20% max overall dmg and players were complaining about it. I don't think giving w/wl an aoe dot much stronger than Current Bleed was a good idea. Spirit Wound averages about 50% in overall dmg, and even 70% or more if you use Dot sources ( robot, Artefact Rune).

Dots have been overperforming in Orkham since release, I am expecting the power of dots to go down inevitably when players finish their new sets and get access to more Patt/DMG (so mobs will die faster and Dots won't have enough time to scale up). But until that happens W/Wl needs to be adjusted down a bit and/or Nerf how much dot dmg you can buff from outside sources (robot, artefact rune) because other classes perform nearly the same way in Orkham atm.

Quote from Madman

Hi,

A few thoughts about the latest warrior changes.

I like the fact that the direction we are taking is to make some warriors more powerful with specific types of weapons. I was never a fan of "make one katana and play all warriors" meta. so big thumbs up for this.

Spear Bleed with Long Reach(1492407) : The hit range (Fan-shaped was never a good mechanic imho) is very small and the dmg output is very low vs the positioning it requires + harder rage management with spear.

Now let's discuss Warrior/Warlock, it seems to me that the trend now is: you want to buff a class, you give it a dot... which is not very fun to play against (nor with it tbh). "Spirit Wound" dot does too much dmg and coupling it with Spirit Blade Storm is just too much. Bleed used to do 20% max overall dmg and players were complaining about it. I don't think giving w/wl an aoe dot much stronger than Current Bleed was a good idea. Spirit Wound averages about 50% in overall dmg, and even 70% or more if you use Dot sources ( robot, Artefact Rune).

Dots have been overperforming in Orkham since release, I am expecting the power of dots to go down inevitably when players finish their new sets and get access to more Patt/DMG (so mobs will die faster and Dots won't have enough time to scale up). But until that happens W/Wl needs to be adjusted down a bit and/or Nerf how much dot dmg you can buff from outside sources (robot, artefact rune) because other classes perform nearly the same way in Orkham atm.

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Kudos asking for a nerf of a class you play. This adds credibility but I would kindly ask you and other influental players to wait a bit longer, before writing a post for three reasons where its conclusions are drawn from scrut.

1) Other guilds might have a different experience due to multiple reasons including tank pulling behaviour, classes used in party (for example lots of defreducer classes make def ignoring DoTs weaker in comparison) and as you said current Level of Gear and even Patk buff.

2) There have been posts by LL in forum with scruts of other classes where other guilds have different experience (e.g. Warden/Rogue being OP in Dark Core). Fallen e.g. had a different experience. Then when random runs started, it was suddenly just average. Not saying Warrior/Warlock would be just average given natural course of action, but you can never be 100% sure.

3) Waiting longer can give you and other players writing a post more time to reflect and try the class in many different group setups.

My personal anecdote:

Reading the initial patch notes I was very excited. Bought 2h Sword, tested Warrior/Warlock alot in Itnal, kept rolling for good stat in weapon but needed 1-2 more days to try it myself in Orkham. I even sold my Katana since if I have a 2h Sword, I can Play Warrior/Scout with that and use Spear for Bleed if needed.

Now I read, that the skill has been disabled. Awesome, Crystals wasted, Katana sold and I cannot even try this class once myself to confirm your experience.

"Following changes will be applied only in custom instances until next patch.

rience."

Devs, can you include Itnal lager as well for testing purposes?

I can agree with blackkid.