Objectivism and subjectivism when expressing opinions, and equality

1st Official Post

    I saw a similar policy on another, more sad server.

    An instance was released there, one guild managed to complete it quickly, in a way that the developers did not foresee, it was temporarily blocked, thus increasing the disproportion between the players. I would like to ask, that is equality? After all, other players could also make such a decision, then they probably regretted it? This is what equality looks like? Thank you for such equality.

    You should objectively think about all circumstances.

    If I would take your point of view, it is unfair doing server maintenance at 0:00 CET. Some ppl need to sleep and go to work, others can farm and have their stats/items/whatever. This is not equal to all. The server should also not be online, if ppl go to work or sleep, because it is not fair.


    int

    I guess, we should arrange a timeslot of maybe 1 hour a day, where the server is online and all ppl can login and play. That would be fair for all I guess. (This post contains traces of irony)


    Greetings

    Please don't teach me to be objective :)

    There are many people from whom I could learn it, you are not one of them, you have repeatedly proved in this forum that you cannot be objective, I do not say that I am, but unlike you, I do not tell someone that it should be objective. Even in this thread you wrote that Boss 2 is a great challenge without looking OBJECTIVELY that other players will have a hard time defeating him. Also, when the rofl was introduced, you claimed it was too easy because it was too easy for YOUR GUILD then where was your objectivity and look more at other players' impressions?


    In what you write, the difference is that when I come back from work, the server will be online, and I will not farm the resources on the trash before the 1st boss.

    I cite myself:


    Don't harass other players.


    You can also be objective while arguing your point of view. Saying, that some bosses are to easy for an endgame instance is a general point of view. Assume kalin shrine hardmode would have the same values like normal mode, you would also calling "to easy". And I guess if you write that, that is ok, but if I write it, it is not objective? Ok. I guess I need to improve my analyzing skills. Thank you for the information.


    Unlike you, I am not harass ppl because they have an own opinion.


    Btw: B2 was a good challenge. Others players, for example Idhril, said it was good playable and they played it several minutes. It is kinda funny, that if I write it, it will be criticized, but if other writes it, it is ok? Ok. Seems I am a person, which words are always wrong, regardless what I say :)

    I still don't understand what you mean by harassing people. Am I writing to you about this in-game? Do I come to your home? Am i calling you I'm writing on priv on the forum? I follow you in the game?


    All I do is, from time to time, express my opinion on the forum or take part (as now) in some larger discussion. I don't think it's harassing any players. This is a very serious accusation, so please do not repeat it unless you have solid arguments. So far you have not delivered them, you only wrote twice that I am harassing players who have a different opinion. In case you continue to accuse me of harassment and do not provide any arguments, I will have to take the appropriate steps in this matter. I would not like to do it, because even though we often have different opinions and we argue in the forum, I respect you very much as dps.


    I also thought that b2 was a really big challenge, but I saw a lot of problems, including that I would have a big problem to do it with weaker players who are not in top eq or skills, and since the instance is 6-ppl, it was a very big problem, especially for guilds that didn't have strong players like my guild. It seems to me that this is a hint of objectivity and looking at the subject from a broader perspective. The more so that I proposed here to introduce RT-like boards to allow as many people as possible to draw from the content.

    Just a few samples that ppl took / can take personal.

    I do it in the words you still wrote here in the thread: I think you read but didn't understand the meaning of harassment


    If ppl feels harassed for what you always mention and mention about a topic, that you can't know (without insider information), it is clearly harassment for me. Now you know and I know, you won't accept my point of view


    Quote from Merkur

    The fact that someone wants to earn dias is probably a normal thing. As soon as I think about it, I can see the prices of items from WB very quickly in front of my eyes, issued by the first guild that beat the WB


    Quote from Merkur

    And the topic of your WB... Well ... Better not to comment ...


    Quote from Merkur

    Regarding WB, I wish you were right :)


    Quote from Merkur

    There are many people from whom I could learn it, you are not one of them, you have repeatedly proved in this forum that you cannot be objective, I do not say that I am, but unlike you, I do not tell someone that it should be objective. Even in this thread you wrote that Boss 2 is a great challenge without looking OBJECTIVELY that other players will have a hard time defeating him. Also, when the rofl was introduced, you claimed it was too easy because it was too easy for YOUR GUILD then where was your objectivity and look more at other players' impressions?

    We all have information on this, your guild is happy to provide it, also here on the forum, ask Ryzek for example :)


    no one cares what a smaller guild feels like, or players who don't have all the equipment at t13 or weapons at t17. the requirements of a small group of players are met, and the opinion of those who try to find the balance is devalued so that it is not just a game for a few.

    if a sincere opinion is given about what 90% of players feel, a dev responds sarcastically, the remaining 10% of players jump like boiled milk and laugh in our face applauding that the farm was deactivated, after obtaining all of them artifacts.

    "everyone had the opportunity to farm, some did and some didn't" yes, great. some had to upload crafts, do daily quests, and get to complete previous quests to get into ks. not all of us can make it as simple as another group of people could. Technically there was time for everything, since it does not fit in our plans that they put something and remove it after 3 days.

    oh .. not all of us have someone who whispers behind us and warns us of some change or requirement for the new. (it's my way of thinking)


    and sorry to say it here. I see that it is a discussion between two people.

    my respects to you.

    It is very good that you speak, voices like yours, we need as much as possible. Not so long ago, when the ROFL was added, our guild was a small guild that had a problem to finish GORGE, we remember very well what it was like to be at a disadvantage and we regularly comment on changes that make it difficult for weaker guilds to play.


    It is enough to follow the thread related to KS, then HOTO, once to ROFL. I also encourage you to look at the topic related to cards, also there I expressed my concern, what will happen when we make great cards and then new players will appear.


    In the past, we were afraid to write on the forum as small, irrelevant players. Also, when WB was released, we were treated like an insect that hinders stronger guilds from trying to defeat the boss. We have repeatedly expressed our objections to many solutions at the WB and how demanding it was.


    Once again, I encourage you and all weaker players and weaker guilds: don't be afraid to express your opinion!

    In my case, it is not afraid to express my opinion. but many people take the comments in a bad way. they take it personally and then close the doors on the game. I don't like that. For this reason, many times it is better to let some vent by always looking at their own noses. and I just adjust to what they finally establish in the game.

    As you have noticed, the requests, the opinions and the sensations that the game generates in ordinary people are not a priority.

    Quote from Ladykarito

    oh .. not all of us have someone who whispers behind us and warns us of some change or requirement for the new. (it's my way of thinking)

    I don't know if you want to say what I think, but you are wrong. If you don't use itempreview, it is not the fault of others who use it.


    To the rest: don't know if you read it. I have the feeling that you did'nt. Kaga and me for example don't care if they remove all artefacts, which would be equal again. But I have the feeling that some ppl don't understand the meaning of equality. Equality does not mean, that everyone gets all what other ppl have. It means, that everyone have the same chances. If some ppl do something and some not, it is still equality.

    Otherwise it would be like I earlier said: ppl should not play If others can't and so on.


    Quote from Paha123

    My opinion is that the devs listen to the top guild and won't listen to others and the people know which Guild im talking about

    Also this is just wrong. Look for example the hundred of pages in class balancing thread. How many ppl just complained about something and did'nt give an idea of improvements and how many gave some ideas. There is a big gap. Also if ppl crying a class is to weak but in reality it isnt. Should devs buff a class bcs some players can't play it well? If I remember correctly, more than 90% of posts came from the top 3-4 guilds and you want to say that they won't listen to smaller guilds, bcs they don't take the time to think about improvements?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think all smaller guilds are noobs, but you need to realize, that there is a big gap of ppl who knows the game and can play good and ppl who just play but have no idea.

    I take an example: do you know the damage formula and know, why all support skills we're changed from buffing pdmg/mdmg to damage dealt? If yes, cool. If no, you see that some ppl take really much time to find out things


    I have one question regarding the hoto/rofl/kalin to easy/hard discussion. Is it your opinion that everyone can run the instances in starter gear or not? Because at rofl time I know that some players tried rofl dps and tank in starter gear - successfully. Maybe thats why some said, that rofl is to easy.


    Merkur regarding your struggles in gorge at the beginning of rofl: gorge was and still is was harder than rofl. Especially at the beginning of rofl, gorge was harder than it is now. They changed some gorge events to make it easier after some time rofl was released.


    Greetings

    Quote from xLutinex

    do you know the damage formula and know, why all support skills we're changed from buffing pdmg/mdmg to damage dealt? If yes, cool. If no, you see that some ppl take really much time to find out things

    sorry that I don't know the ins and outs of how the game works, unfortunately between work and real life I don't have enough time to figure out all the nuances of a game. I simply just try to enjoy the game and have fun.


    Cheers

    • Official Post

    Hello,


    At first it is worth to mention that trash loot was disabled temporary until we can find some solution to don't make Kalin not worth to run after a few days. It means loot will be more likely restored in same or similar way soon. Comparing it to some other "sad servers" where instances were disabled for months sounds quite fair.


    I want to dement gossips about giving some information for certain guilds. We do not do that. If we find out someone is giving some information to others, we clarify and confirm it and it is usually not the case anymore. We have a serious approach regarding sharing not expected changes. Moreover, most of changes are discussed in real time making it impossible to spread it a few days before.


    We receive many suggestions, but quite part of them doesn't contain actual arguments or solution ideas, making it post noted since we are not able to handle everything at once. Some are also delayed as we are not sure if something is technically possible and do not want to make a hope if it would appear to be impossible.


    It is worth to mention that if someone asks if something is designed to be easier accessible than it should and receiving a few answers that it is not, continuing to use it like that, is clearly overusing. But lack of public statements makes it not possible to result in any kind of punishments. However sometimes it happens that by misunderstanding or lack of good details exchange, it may end different. Our will is not to punish anyone just because they are better or weaker. Intention is to make equal chances to everyone.


    Actually such kind of conversations move our focus on reading and handling them instead making an actual work, which connected already with recent DDOS-related issues and its results in today's ping issues, delays everything. We also own private life and instead focusing on actual changes, improvements, fixes and new content we are distracted by long discussions.


    We started to grow our team in order to provide more content in shorter time, but it is clear that some team members need to learn technical and balance aspects. Short and pithy suggestions are more valuable than bunch of text that doesn't help them a lot. It is worth to remember that if something is accessible too quickly, making new content makes no sense if it takes a few times longer to prepare. Moreover, for players with limited amount of time there are almost always ways to trade with players who have got more time. That gives them all equal chances to obtain certain element with considering their real life possibilities.


    All of us are fans of this game. Let it become better by cooperation instead fighting each other. Our will is that it will live as long as possible, it requires far thinking and good mood between community and team. We have a lot of further ideas and want to introduce many of your suggestions when it is time possible. Please give us possibility to improve and solve issues. Enjoy game and have fun!


    Greetings

    my opinion is based on what I see in the game, what I hear in the chat room and read in the chat channels (the discontent of many of us with specific topics). I do not have the pleasure of meeting you xLutinex , some of your guild yes and they are people appreciated by me. I'm not going to get into a debate over something with you. I only expressed my feelings in this space where I saw that I could do it.

    I will only say that your experience in the game is not the same as the rest. And what for you may be a little challenging to achieve (but achievable) for the rest of the players is sometimes impossible.


    thank you grox for your warm words, I wish the rest of your team were as dedicated when expressing themselves as you are, and not the ones I have previously read by others in other forum discussions.


    Greetings

    The forum is a place for everyone. I would never forbid anyone to tell his/her opinion. And yes, I know that some things for some ppl are unreachable at the moment. Everyone can work on their own or with a team to reach everything. And honestly some players want harder challenge (this is normal behavior in every game). You can count me in for the last example of players.

    But in comparison to others here in the forum, I share my experience and tell my opinion and don't try to tell anything as "every player". Sure I have an other opinion than any other. That is normal and everyone has his/her opinion and can share it


    Greetings

    One of the main factors why people take things personally is the way the debates are held; talking about things or expressing one's opinion is often met with dogpiling. Some people (yeah, I mean myself too) do not like this and instead make a sport out of getting some people riled up over literally nothing.


    This is especially jarring when normative statements are made in relation to a personal pronoun referring to oneself. To put it blatantly: it makes the person doing it look incredibly arrogant, as normative statements simply can not be derived from a place of authority of a singular person but rather from collective knowledge/experimental testing or things already being public knowledge.


    The very basis of the balance thread is flawed in this way, as every person in there has a subjective understanding of things and the way raw data is gathered differs accordingly, yet findings/experience differing from oneselves are dismissed our of hand.


    The solution? Everyone take a chill pill - these are just words on a screen. The solution to the current issues will come and trying to put each other down over possible suggestions just isn't productive for anyone.