(I am setting up a new topic because I don't want the post to be lost in the general topic regarding balance)
...A few words about balance...
At the beginning, I would like to point out that my statement is not intended to offend or hurt anyone.
For a long time I have had the impression that the class balance is not as leading as it should be, in short it is bad. Before the class balance, each class had one or two right combinations, for example: the only right rogue was a rogue / mage. Whether the right combinations of individual classes were well-balanced against each other is another question ... I don't think so ...
However, there was a light of hope, a new balance was to come, a new era, something wonderful, a patch that would make whatever you play it will be alright about your dps. In a word, whether you play a rogue / mage or a rogue/ XXX, you will do similar damage on the scale of the entire instance, so it really depends on you what you play, you choose what you play with the most pleasure and you are not punished with a worse result on the scale of the instance because your combination is weaker than others combinations. Conversely, you don't get better results on the instance scale because your combinationn is stronger than others.
In my opinion, it has been a long time since the beginning of the new balance. The new instance was introduced to the game at the end of April last year, the balance began in middle June last year. This means that 10 months have passed. ALMOST A YEAR! I would like to summarize my observations on this subject (you don't have to agree with them, it's just my point of view).
...My point of view...
As I wrote before, there was only one valid combination of a specific class in the past, now the case is that (as my guildmate put it) there are seasons. Seasons when specific class combinations are the only right ones for a long time (I'm looking at doing a top result on an instance), there are some little nerfs of this class, that class, another class, some boosts along the way.
They are often not very accurate, something is boosted too much, something nerfed too weak. Then someone realizes that some combinations are beating too weakly and a decision is made that they need to be reinforced and they get a big boost and a new season begins. During this time, some nerfs again, some boosts there, nerfs too small for those combinations that were too weak before, but now they are too strong. And again, we find something that beats too weakly, boost it strongly, a new season begins ... ..
...Present Balance idea...:
- 1) Find the strongest combination of the class and give him nerf
- 2) Find the weakest / weak combination and give him a big boost
- 3) Leave the already weakened and often unplayable combination from the first point
- 4) Give two medium nerfs for a reinforced combination even though it requires two very large nerfs
- 5) Repeat steps 2-4 for each class: mage, rogue, warrior etc, and set a new power threshold for the party.
- 6) Go to the second point
Briefly summarizing, at the beginning there is a combination that just beat too hard, it gets a nerf so big that it often gets one of the weaker combinations of the class, then there is ANOTHER weak combination , give it a big kick to catch up with the top of the class. The combinations is too strong. This is an important moment, the combination should be nerfed to the level of the remaining combinations, unfortunately this is often not the case. Usually the combinations is insufficiently nerfed. Then other weak combinations are found and it is boosted so that it catches up with the one you just created. Boosts too much, then nerfs too weak and so on. Finally, it looks like new, stronger combinations are being created and the power of the party is going up all the time. What is happening like this?
First of all, what I wrote about, there are seasons during which you play for example. r / wrl, then r / wd, then r / d, then r / w, then r / ch, now r / s. I translate on rogues because I know them best. The second effect of all this is that, as I wrote, the power of the party grows (not through better equipment, through balance) and at the same time the endgame content stands still and is simply less demanding, that's why str / str from the highest instance in the game can be purchased for 1k dias, what is funny.
Additionally, there is frustration, you make very good equipment, invest dias in high tiers and you do it to get better results. You found yourself (like me) a rogue who you play best and you would like to play with him and have better results because you have better eq. Meanwhile, because of the wrong balance, there are still combinations that beat harder, much harder. A perfect example is r / s. I went to the r / d instance (which not so long ago was a really good rogue) and what turned out? Patch 10.4.0.4007, r / s rebuild. And suddenly someone with a similar eq as me scored almost 3 times as much as me, and two people with equipment twice as small as mine also scored a lot more than me. I have gold gear from rofl in t13, one of them had red from a rofl in t9-10. How is it possible? The combination was stronger 2-3 times than the others. How? How did this happen? Nobody tested it? Skill values were drawn by a randomizing machine? I understand to make a combination that is too strong, it is not easy to rebuild an existing combination in such a way that it is well-balanced. However, I believe the error values are in the order of a maximum of 30%, not 200-300%. As for r / s, today, I don't know exactly when patch 10.4.0.4007 came out, but it's been 6 patches already and it's still too strong. In a moment it will be put aside, it will not be moved and the fun will start again, we will find a new combination that is too weak (as previously mentioned r / s)
My proposition:
As Tywin Lannister would say, "Madness and Stupidity." I believe that this is a vicious circle from which to go. The mistake was made at the very beginning, we already had some balance, somehow this endgame looked like. Instead of turning everything upside down, those combination should be balanced with respect to each other, for example the only right r / m in relation to the s / wd, etc. Then, within each class, introduce one by one combinations one by one. Rebuild the rogue / warrior and balance it to the level of r / m (I'm talking about the result in the instance scale), then if it succeeds, introduce for example r / s and balance it to the level of r / m ... Etc. in relation to the predetermined determinant. Unfortunately, it did not happen and it became a brothel, it is not known what is the determinant of a depression. For example, I will go r / p now and hit less than I would have captured on r / s. The question is, does it mean that r / s is too strong? Or maybe the r / p is too weak? This question accompanies me throughout the balance. Who to relate to? What beats right?
I observe the balance thread and see such a tendency that someone who knows magicians says that, for example, some rogue beats too hard, or vice versa, some scouts says that some magician beats too hard. Usually the people who speak have no idea about the second class, not always, we have people like Lutine here who play and magicians and rogues and scouts and something else and cover the subject. But I think it's high time to change this because it is full of misinformation and class interests. When someone plays only a rogue like me and embraces him very well, sometimes you fall into such a trap that you do not see that your combination is actually too strong and you say to yourself: "I have a good grip on the class, I beat well". Yes, this is true, but not always and sometimes it actually turns out that the combination was a bit too strong.
My suggestion is to change the way of balancing, I would like it not to turn out that when the new instance is released, the balance will still not be finished, and in my opinion this is what it promises. I propose to break balance topic down into separate class topics. Where everyone will speak within a given class, a separate topic for rogues about rogues and a separate topic for magicians about magicians. Let the creators of the balance choose one correct combination from each class. For example for the r / d rogue, for the m / d mage etc, they will balance them against each other. And then separately let me balance the rest of the rogue's combinations to the r / d level, and the rest of the mage's combinations to the m / d level. And when I, as a rogue, know (because it will be decided) how much more or less he should do, I will be able to give meaningful feedback because I will have a point to refer to.
...There is a beautiful slogan: "stop boost, start nerf"...
...So as not to be groundless, example...:
-
Patch 10.2.1.1000
- Rebuild r/wrl, he was OP
-
Patch 10.2.1.1252
- Fixed Rogue/Warlock skill Wound Attack extra damages weren’t reduced. = REPAIR
- 7 patches without any changes, but okey that was start of balance.
-
Patch 10.2.1.1261
- Fixed Dark Soul Assail wasn’t disappearing on some cases. = REPAIR
- 6 patches without any changes, after:
-
Patch 10.2.1.2006
- Changed Dark Soul Smelt to inflict damage based on attacker hand. = NOT NERF / NOT BOOST in my opinion, because that was the time when r/wrl change raksha dagger replaced with gold rofl dagger, damage was +- the same in my memory is good
- Changed Soul Stab to inflict damage up to 3 targets within 50 radius with 20% damage decrement for each extra target = BIG BOOST on trash
- (R/wrl is still OP in this moment)
- 2 patches without any changes, after:
-
Patch 10.2.2.1000
- Removed Soul Stab damage decrement for each extra target. = BOOST
- Removed cooldown of Soul Agility, increased it’s duration to 900 seconds. = VERY BIG BOOST!!!
- (R/wrl is totally OP in this moment)
- 7 patches without any changes, after:
-
Patch 10.2.2.4000:
- Reduced Soul Agility physical attack increment to 8%. = NERF
- (R/wrl still is totally OP in this moment)
- 10 patches without any changes, after:
-
Patch 10.2.4.2002
- Increased Dark Soul Assail dark damage increment to 54%. = SMALL BOOST
- Reduced Soul Agility duration to 30 seconds, increased cooldown to 90 seconds, increased dark damage increment to 54%. = BIG NERF
- (R/wrl still should be OP but no, in this moment he is strong like the beginning, but in this moment he is no OP, he is weaker than any rogues)
- (That is end r/wrl season)
-
Patch 10.2.4.2005
- Increased Dark Soul Assail dark damage gain to 75%, reduced active dark damage gain to 35%. = NOT NERF / NOT BOOST
-
7 patches without any changes, after:
- Increased Dark Soul Smelt damage to 144% from 116%. = BOOST
- Changed Eye of the Darkness to do not reduce damage of Shadowstab, Low Blow and Wound Attack any more. = BIG BOOST
- (R/wrl is totally OP in comparison again r/wrl from the beggining (when he was OP) but in this moment he is still too weak)
- 1 patches without any changes, after:
-
Patch 10.4.0.3000:
- Rebuild R/wrl = BIG BOOST
- Reduced Soul Agility dark damage gain to 24%, reduced its cooldown to 60 seconds. = BOOST
-
4 patches without any changes, after:
- Reduced Soul Agility dark damage gain to 21% from 24%. = SMALL NERF
- Reduced Dark Soul Assail dark damage gain to 68% from 75%. = NERF
- Increased Soul Extractor dark damage gain to 15% from 10%. = SMALL BOOST
- 8 patches without any changes
To sum up, at this point r / wrl is average dps, it is neither very weak not very strong, it just is and is able to do some result on the instance. However, if you compare it to the r / wrl at the beginning of the balance, when it was totally OP, it is a lot stronger in this moment. Really much stronger. Since then he was nerfed because he was too powerful, then he got boosts, which made him much stronger than he was at the beginning, and yet the current balance is just average, I'll risk a statement that something went wrong.