Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Quote from Groot

Quote from MidanLauert

I would really not like that. That ISS is really good for DPS Knights. Would suck if it got removed.

only with an agro and a spott add, but the other seggestions arent bad for dps knights. a stun like 0,5sec can be a solution too.

Ah, gotcha! I think something that works for both, like you suggested, a stun, would be great. The skill is very bland on its own.

Perhaps a small debuff that applies a debuff that causes a reduction of damage dealt by the enemy (not stacking with "Intimidate"/"Einschüchtern") would be a great alternative.

Have a blessed day,

Midan

Mage

• Reduced Thunderstorm damage to 2511 from 2737.

I don't understand these kinds of general nerfs out of nowhere. Mages aren't balanced between their combos. Nerf a random skill for all of them makes no sense to me.

better nerf r/s

Quote from Madox

Mage

• Reduced Thunderstorm damage to 2511 from 2737.

I don't understand these kinds of general nerfs out of nowhere. Mages aren't balanced between their combos. Nerf a random skill for all of them makes no sense to me.

That's 100% true statement, currently we have like 3 or 4? mage classes that need individual nerf are m/s, m/ch, m/wd, and maybe m/d?

other mages like m/p, m/k, m/wrl, m/w, are waaay less powerfull than top4.

So maybe instead of nerfing them all, try to make all combos pleasant to play?

WlWd ... as a full tank

Today I was testing the WlWd as a tank in rofl. I used my tank jewelry, wings and a 4 piece-mainset of red rofl gear, statted with stamina/hp, got about 1.9kk hp, 600k matt and 800k pdef. I just wanted to see if it's possible at all to tank with that class, since it has some tanky utility (such as Otherworldly Whisper (OW) or WP Construct).

I was able to come close to the dmg reduction cap about all the time (no idea how this is currently calculated exactly), by using the 6% from tank jewelry, 48% through WP Construct and another 50% while channeling OW or having the Mind Barrier active. Even with the Mind Rune I think I hit the capof dmg reduction. It was a bit difficult to manage the damage mitigation at some point, especially at b1 and b3, but it worked quite well - even better than expected. That build was able to tank the entire ini without any issues or problems, while supporting the raid with dmg mitigation, matt/patt support and shields. The range pulling was very nice, the stacking through OW was easy and the burst aggro was decent due to the dark damage increment this class has. However, the dmg itself was very bad, but I wasn't sure how much of my tank gear I should use.

The only thing that was a bit low, was the sustain AoE aggro. The only 2 skills with aggro multipliers in AoE are Power of the Wood Spirit and Otherworldly Whisper. PotW is limited to 6 targets and OW is channeled, that requires no moving. So bigger pulls are a bit complicated, if you have to compete against champs or other warlocks.

However, the class as a full tank is very fun to play and worth a try imo. Maybe you could slightly increase the aggro bonus of WP Construct to 100%, which could fix the lacking sustain aggro.

I experienced, that you can't ever rely entirely on OW in AoE, but need to use some PotW as well before. I had around 250% aggro (displayed on the char frame), which can be improved by a second Hatred13 (I used a t13 in my wand and a t11 in my talisman, which was granting a more consistent aggro as my staff), but also by a small adaption of the WP Construct, as mentioned.

Also this class was tanking better and more consistent as the Wl/K in my eyes, maybe caused by the insane uptime of the dmg reduction, that is literally much more useful than any pdef or parry, even after the latest change related to the stacking of dmg reduction (which might apply also to WlWd, but I'm not sure). The biggest hits I received were around 350k in average, b3 hit a bit harder with a critical 700k, but at this point, I mis-placed the Mind Barrier due to the screen shaking, which was sucking a bit.

The clear advantage against WlK is, that you don't need to care of your WP state, since its permanent, so you just take care of you psi, because once the psi is gone and your mitigation is running out, you're just a paper that stands against razer blades. Fortunately the heal has been buffed enough in the past few patches, so that you can always have some downtime on your mitigation, but if you get used to the class as a tank, that should reach a 95-100% uptime, I'm sure.

If anyone is interested in my exact setup, write me ingame.

In terms of lowering best mages combos dmg output i suggest : (i'm not best at ingame math so those numbers might not be best :P)

In mage/scout lower "Elemental Catalysis" mdmg gain from 70% to maybe like 50%?

In mage/champion lower "Ion Storm" dmg dealt, and also Wind dmg boosts gained by "Voltage Influx" (from 18% to maybe 10%) and "Electrostatic Charge" (from 10% to 5%)

in mage/warden lower "Earth Groaning Wind Blade" dmg output, or increase "Earth Core Barrier" CD to 3 min.

Those skills i feel are good playce to do adjustments. Maybe values are wrong, maybe some skills are more influent at combo gameplay, but i think we should try to lower those specific combos dmg, just to make space for other mages, and to make those not that op

Kind Regards

Quote from deszcz2

In terms of lowering best mages combos dmg output i suggest : (i'm not best at ingame math so those numbers might not be best :P)

In mage/scout lower "Elemental Catalysis" mdmg gain from 70% to maybe like 50%?

In mage/champion lower "Ion Storm" dmg dealt, and also Wind dmg boosts gained by "Voltage Influx" (from 18% to maybe 10%) and "Electrostatic Charge" (from 10% to 5%)

in mage/warden lower "Earth Groaning Wind Blade" dmg output, or increase "Earth Core Barrier" CD to 3 min.

Those skills i feel are good playce to do adjustments. Maybe values are wrong, maybe some skills are more influent at combo gameplay, but i think we should try to lower those specific combos dmg, just to make space for other mages, and to make those not that op

Kind Regards

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I agree

BTW Make the Flame Spirit from the mage/scout have the same movement speed as its master.

Greetings

Hi all.

Knight / Warden (as pdd):

The "Truth Shield Bash" skill has a high cooldown.

The "Frantic Smash" skill is useless when there is the "Punishment" skill.

Maybe it should be adjusted?

Hello,

Regarding Scout/Warlock, I was wondering if it's intentional that the debuff from this skill is not altered:

It still reduces "Dark Damage" by 9.2%, while all Scout/Warlock's skills have been transformed to Poison Damage.

Perhaps it could give this class a small boost if this was changed to Poison Damage?

(I'm not sure if the class needs a boost, just a suggestion :))

Quote from Amzi

It still reduces "Dark Damage" by 9.2%, while all Scout/Warlock's skills have been transformed to Poison Damage.

Perhaps it could give this class a small boost if this was changed to Poison Damage?

(I'm not sure if the class needs a boost, just a suggestion :))

I'm playing that class in rofl a lot. I took that specific debuff as some kind of support for dark damage classes that aren't using it themselves (such as Mage/Rogue). However, changing the debuff to increase poison damage would make the class too strong I think. I mean, it's +9.2% dark damage atm. Another "permanently active" 9.2% poison damage on multitarget would be insane.

Quote from Zyrex

I'm playing that class in rofl a lot. I took that specific debuff as some kind of support for dark damage classes that aren't using it themselves (such as Mage/Rogue). However, changing the debuff to increase poison damage would make the class too strong I think. I mean, it's +9.2% dark damage atm. Another "permanently active" 9.2% poison damage on multitarget would be insane.

Thank you for clarifying I wasn't sure how well the class performed in high end content

about new druid changes....

12% nerf on sandstorm damage increasing its radious.

It might help in big pulls but dwl and dm will get hurt in overall. These 2 combos use this aoe as main dmg source even when we have only 2 mobs. In this case reducing the dmg and increasing the size won't help, is a nerf in 2 super nerfed and non viable classes.

Their single dmg is low as hell in most cases and 0 in dm burst. Still waiting any change on that side.

Where is my mdps priest? 🥺

quick question, not trying to be funny or uninformed , but why so much balancing instead of new content, world boss ?

just curious

thank you

Just quick question why do the devs you guys nerf mage class 3 times i think mages had enough of the nerfing

Quote from playboy

quick question, not trying to be funny or uninformed , but why so much balancing instead of new content, world boss ?

just curious

thank you

You haven't noticed the new card system :P? its also new (or refresh of old) content. According to Grox's post, world boss should come out soon.

Mage/Knight bug report:

Energy recover elite (Energy influx skill) isn't working properly. Sometimes buff is gone and skill is in cd. Can you fix this? thanks.

Warrior/priest, I have played this class in rofl a few times as a dps and the only thing this class lacks is a spammable non gcd skill to make it just a little less bad, most/all warriors have a skill like this, was hoping to get that for w/p also thanks.

(the following is based on my subjective experience through my guild internal rofl runs)

TL;DR

The patch was particularly fine, but turned the mage balancing in the wrong direction. This may result into a huge mage nerf, that should have been prevented by adapting the classes on the right way. Now we got a new mage meta.

Quote from Patch Notes 10.4.1.1002

(...)

First, thanks for the Scout/Warlock nerf, that was needed. I very much appreciate listening to us in that topic.

Also it's nice to see a champ buff again, since warrior was overperforming over champ a bit. Now the champ will be much better by far, but we're already used to the 2-weeks-rotation of strongest classes, so thats okay to me.

Unfortunately there was no tank related adaption, which feels a bit sad, but okay, there are other classes having a higher prio I guess.

The druid/mage and druid/warlock are btw still lacking in singletarget and are very strong in AoE, nothing changed for them. So maybe the adaption could be rated as useless, but we will see what may come in the next days.

BUT what the hell did you do with the mages? Mage/Druid and Mage/Rogue were alredy pretty imbalanced and now you just made them op. These two combos were (mostly) the best (magical) classes for AoE overall damage in rofl and now you just added a decent burst to them. Even the (still op) Warlock/Warden hasn't reached that damage level yet. By eliminating the only weakness of the classes, you created a real monster. But maybe this is intended, idk what you guys planned for the future.

I also don't understand why you're nerfing all the classes in one patch and 2 patches later bring out op classes again, that deal even more damage than already existing op classes (like wl/wd, wl/s, d/r, etc). Now we need a definition of classes that are above of op... maybe "op plus"? I mean, do you plan to nerf all classes again in 2 months? If yes, the changes should be fine, else I don't understand this at all (anymore).

If I knew that you plan to introduce such op mages, I would have never complained about the Scout/Warlock, which now - post-patch - should be lacking in dps compared with the new/"op plus" classes.

I compared M/D today in rofl with my Wl/Wd and the AoE dmg was much higher and the single target sustain too. Only single target burst was still better on Wl/Wd, but overall M/D could have beaten Wl/Wd, but he died for 50% of the time and I was called 5 times at b3, so it was quite close in the overall dmg... Oh and hey, WlWd is still op, but M/D is a doubled WlWd (in terms of dps).

I mean, M/D is op as hell now, it's like the pre 10.4.0.4 M/Wd but now all the weaknesses are gone. Maybe add another passive that reduces incoming damage by 90% additionally? That would make the class complete, so it doesn't die anymore. (just trolling, please don't do that...you can't be sure these days I guess...)

In the end, I smell a huge mage nerf coming in 2-3 weeks, which makes primary mage useless again, but we're already prepared and used to that as well, since we still have the good old warlocks. Maybe a warlock raid makes sense then.

Also I would like to suggest again, to increase the aggro of Willpower Construct on Wl/Wd from 75% to 100%, the class is doing a great job so far as a tank (and seems to be one of the most viable tanks out there, bcz it prevents the raid of dying on big pulls) but is lacking in sustain aggro a bit. Especially if mages have more than 10% aggro, it's a bit difficult on some situations to keep aggro without stressing.

Quote from Zyrex

(the following is based on my subjective experience through my guild internal rofl runs)

TL;DR

The patch was particularly fine, but turned the mage balancing in the wrong direction. This may result into a huge mage nerf, that should have been prevented by adapting the classes on the right way. Now we got a new mage meta.

Quote from Patch Notes 10.4.1.1002

(...)

First, thanks for the Scout/Warlock nerf, that was needed. I very much appreciate listening to us in that topic.

Also it's nice to see a champ buff again, since warrior was overperforming over champ a bit. Now the champ will be much better by far, but we're already used to the 2-weeks-rotation of strongest classes, so thats okay to me.

Unfortunately there was no tank related adaption, which feels a bit sad, but okay, there are other classes having a higher prio I guess.

The druid/mage and druid/warlock are btw still lacking in singletarget and are very strong in AoE, nothing changed for them. So maybe the adaption could be rated as useless, but we will see what may come in the next days.

BUT what the hell did you do with the mages? Mage/Druid and Mage/Rogue were alredy pretty imbalanced and now you just made them op. These two combos were (mostly) the best (magical) classes for AoE overall damage in rofl and now you just added a decent burst to them. Even the (still op) Warlock/Warden hasn't reached that damage level yet. By eliminating the only weakness of the classes, you created a real monster. But maybe this is intended, idk what you guys planned for the future.

I also don't understand why you're nerfing all the classes in one patch and 2 patches later bring out op classes again, that deal even more damage than already existing op classes (like wl/wd, wl/s, d/r, etc). Now we need a definition of classes that are above of op... maybe "op plus"? I mean, do you plan to nerf all classes again in 2 months? If yes, the changes should be fine, else I don't understand this at all (anymore).

If I knew that you plan to introduce such op mages, I would have never complained about the Scout/Warlock, which now - post-patch - should be lacking in dps compared with the new/"op plus" classes.

I compared M/D today in rofl with my Wl/Wd and the AoE dmg was much higher and the single target sustain too. Only single target burst was still better on Wl/Wd, but overall M/D could have beaten Wl/Wd, but he died for 50% of the time and I was called 5 times at b3, so it was quite close in the overall dmg... Oh and hey, WlWd is still op, but M/D is a doubled WlWd (in terms of dps).

I mean, M/D is op as hell now, it's like the pre 10.4.0.4 M/Wd but now all the weaknesses are gone. Maybe add another passive that reduces incoming damage by 90% additionally? That would make the class complete, so it doesn't die anymore. (just trolling, please don't do that...you can't be sure these days I guess...)

In the end, I smell a huge mage nerf coming in 2-3 weeks, which makes primary mage useless again, but we're already prepared and used to that as well, since we still have the good old warlocks. Maybe a warlock raid makes sense then.

Also I would like to suggest again, to increase the aggro of Willpower Construct on Wl/Wd from 75% to 100%, the class is doing a great job so far as a tank (and seems to be one of the most viable tanks out there, bcz it prevents the raid of dying on big pulls) but is lacking in sustain aggro a bit. Especially if mages have more than 10% aggro, it's a bit difficult on some situations to keep aggro without stressing.

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First of all, I can't comment on Mage/Rogue yet because I haven't played him yet. I agree that the Scout/Wl nerf was well deserved (that class overperformed way too much).

And the following statement is simply what I've seen and can report from our rofl runs. That beiing said...

I completly disagree on the whole "Mage/Druid" is OP, mages in general are OP topic. Mage/Druid had really, really bad aoe damage, compared to other aoe mage combinations such as /warden /priest and YES even /knight. While I agree that the burst damage was buffed (Thanks for that) this class still deals very little damage compared to other mdps. And compared to pdps its even worse. I didn't stand a chance (burst and aoe) to Scouts /Rogues other mages (with worse gear) and thankfully there was no Champion dps.

Also if you wanna compare this class to an "op" mdps, don't choose wl/wd. Wl/wd hasn't been OP since several patches ago (which is why everybody was playing wl/scout).

Anyway, this is just my point of view.

Greetings.

Quote from Laisha

Quote from Zyrex

(the following is based on my subjective experience through my guild internal rofl runs)

TL;DR

The patch was particularly fine, but turned the mage balancing in the wrong direction. This may result into a huge mage nerf, that should have been prevented by adapting the classes on the right way. Now we got a new mage meta.

First, thanks for the Scout/Warlock nerf, that was needed. I very much appreciate listening to us in that topic.

Also it's nice to see a champ buff again, since warrior was overperforming over champ a bit. Now the champ will be much better by far, but we're already used to the 2-weeks-rotation of strongest classes, so thats okay to me.

Unfortunately there was no tank related adaption, which feels a bit sad, but okay, there are other classes having a higher prio I guess.

The druid/mage and druid/warlock are btw still lacking in singletarget and are very strong in AoE, nothing changed for them. So maybe the adaption could be rated as useless, but we will see what may come in the next days.

BUT what the hell did you do with the mages? Mage/Druid and Mage/Rogue were alredy pretty imbalanced and now you just made them op. These two combos were (mostly) the best (magical) classes for AoE overall damage in rofl and now you just added a decent burst to them. Even the (still op) Warlock/Warden hasn't reached that damage level yet. By eliminating the only weakness of the classes, you created a real monster. But maybe this is intended, idk what you guys planned for the future.

I also don't understand why you're nerfing all the classes in one patch and 2 patches later bring out op classes again, that deal even more damage than already existing op classes (like wl/wd, wl/s, d/r, etc). Now we need a definition of classes that are above of op... maybe "op plus"? I mean, do you plan to nerf all classes again in 2 months? If yes, the changes should be fine, else I don't understand this at all (anymore).

If I knew that you plan to introduce such op mages, I would have never complained about the Scout/Warlock, which now - post-patch - should be lacking in dps compared with the new/"op plus" classes.

I compared M/D today in rofl with my Wl/Wd and the AoE dmg was much higher and the single target sustain too. Only single target burst was still better on Wl/Wd, but overall M/D could have beaten Wl/Wd, but he died for 50% of the time and I was called 5 times at b3, so it was quite close in the overall dmg... Oh and hey, WlWd is still op, but M/D is a doubled WlWd (in terms of dps).

I mean, M/D is op as hell now, it's like the pre 10.4.0.4 M/Wd but now all the weaknesses are gone. Maybe add another passive that reduces incoming damage by 90% additionally? That would make the class complete, so it doesn't die anymore. (just trolling, please don't do that...you can't be sure these days I guess...)

In the end, I smell a huge mage nerf coming in 2-3 weeks, which makes primary mage useless again, but we're already prepared and used to that as well, since we still have the good old warlocks. Maybe a warlock raid makes sense then.

Also I would like to suggest again, to increase the aggro of Willpower Construct on Wl/Wd from 75% to 100%, the class is doing a great job so far as a tank (and seems to be one of the most viable tanks out there, bcz it prevents the raid of dying on big pulls) but is lacking in sustain aggro a bit. Especially if mages have more than 10% aggro, it's a bit difficult on some situations to keep aggro without stressing.

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First of all, I can't comment on Mage/Rogue yet because I haven't played him yet. I agree that the Scout/Wl nerf was well deserved (that class overperformed way too much).

And the following statement is simply what I've seen and can report from our rofl runs. That beiing said...

I completly disagree on the whole "Mage/Druid" is OP, mages in general are OP topic. Mage/Druid had really, really bad aoe damage, compared to other aoe mage combinations such as /warden /priest and YES even /knight. While I agree that the burst damage was buffed (Thanks for that) this class still deals very little damage compared to other mdps. And compared to pdps its even worse. I didn't stand a chance (burst and aoe) to Scouts /Rogues other mages (with worse gear) and thankfully there was no Champion dps.

Also if you wanna compare this class to an "op" mdps, don't choose wl/wd. Wl/wd hasn't been OP since several patches ago (which is why everybody was playing wl/scout).

Anyway, this is just my point of view.

Greetings.

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Well it's simillar when it comes to my experience, yet i never felt like my m/d was underperforming even before latest changes. I was few times as m/d with my guild and it was rly good, maybe not as powerfull as m/s but not much worse, i think it could be close or sligtly worse than m/wd.

What i think is that curent aoe dmg based content makes all mages quite powerfull (some more than others but it probably depends on raid playstyle). To be honest i don't think that is something bad, yet i'm not sure what would be good solution for this, becouse if future give us more single taget content all classes that was "OP" will be underperforming.

For now i just want to see all mdps classes to be pleasant and joyfull to play. What i experienced so far we have not that bad balance between "Mage" mainclasses:
(my opinion): top dps: m/s, m/ch, m/wd, m/d. nice dps + insane support: m/wrl. Nice dps + good support: m/r. *Meh*dps: m/p, m/k, m/w?(don't have swap gear).
I didn't put here other magical combos purposely, bec wanted to just show "MagePOV"

Well so as we see we have only 3 ot of 9? mage classes that can be seen as "bad ones". Of course i DEPENDS on own and raid playstyle as i mentioned before. But i think we should just try not to destroy this state by trying to improve our prefered class combo.

I am big fan of lowering overall dmg output, but i am bigest fan of giving well deserved buffs as well as nerfs for separate class combos

Thanks and don't cry about nerfs becouse it can always be worse

Quote from Zyrex

(the following is based on my subjective experience through my guild internal rofl runs)

TL;DR

The patch was particularly fine, but turned the mage balancing in the wrong direction. This may result into a huge mage nerf, that should have been prevented by adapting the classes on the right way. Now we got a new mage meta.

Quote from Patch Notes 10.4.1.1002

(...)

First, thanks for the Scout/Warlock nerf, that was needed. I very much appreciate listening to us in that topic.

Also it's nice to see a champ buff again, since warrior was overperforming over champ a bit. Now the champ will be much better by far, but we're already used to the 2-weeks-rotation of strongest classes, so thats okay to me.

Unfortunately there was no tank related adaption, which feels a bit sad, but okay, there are other classes having a higher prio I guess.

The druid/mage and druid/warlock are btw still lacking in singletarget and are very strong in AoE, nothing changed for them. So maybe the adaption could be rated as useless, but we will see what may come in the next days.

BUT what the hell did you do with the mages? Mage/Druid and Mage/Rogue were alredy pretty imbalanced and now you just made them op. These two combos were (mostly) the best (magical) classes for AoE overall damage in rofl and now you just added a decent burst to them. Even the (still op) Warlock/Warden hasn't reached that damage level yet. By eliminating the only weakness of the classes, you created a real monster. But maybe this is intended, idk what you guys planned for the future.

I also don't understand why you're nerfing all the classes in one patch and 2 patches later bring out op classes again, that deal even more damage than already existing op classes (like wl/wd, wl/s, d/r, etc). Now we need a definition of classes that are above of op... maybe "op plus"? I mean, do you plan to nerf all classes again in 2 months? If yes, the changes should be fine, else I don't understand this at all (anymore).

If I knew that you plan to introduce such op mages, I would have never complained about the Scout/Warlock, which now - post-patch - should be lacking in dps compared with the new/"op plus" classes.

I compared M/D today in rofl with my Wl/Wd and the AoE dmg was much higher and the single target sustain too. Only single target burst was still better on Wl/Wd, but overall M/D could have beaten Wl/Wd, but he died for 50% of the time and I was called 5 times at b3, so it was quite close in the overall dmg... Oh and hey, WlWd is still op, but M/D is a doubled WlWd (in terms of dps).

I mean, M/D is op as hell now, it's like the pre 10.4.0.4 M/Wd but now all the weaknesses are gone. Maybe add another passive that reduces incoming damage by 90% additionally? That would make the class complete, so it doesn't die anymore. (just trolling, please don't do that...you can't be sure these days I guess...)

In the end, I smell a huge mage nerf coming in 2-3 weeks, which makes primary mage useless again, but we're already prepared and used to that as well, since we still have the good old warlocks. Maybe a warlock raid makes sense then.

Also I would like to suggest again, to increase the aggro of Willpower Construct on Wl/Wd from 75% to 100%, the class is doing a great job so far as a tank (and seems to be one of the most viable tanks out there, bcz it prevents the raid of dying on big pulls) but is lacking in sustain aggro a bit. Especially if mages have more than 10% aggro, it's a bit difficult on some situations to keep aggro without stressing.

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Not true from my point of view.

Every time i play with a really good champion/mage i have no chance at all. It does not matter what subclass i play and it does not matter what support the group has. Most mage classes suck at Jerath and burstbosses while underperfoming against a properly played Champion/Mage in large trashgroups as well. The only time the mage is better than that class is after large trash groups in the offburst phase. So calling out a "mage-meta" is just irritating to me.

Champion is still the strongest class and it has been for the past billion patches.

(And it got buffed wtf why)

~kind regards Noodlez

Well, that was just my personal opinion, based on my guild runs. So if you all think different or disagree, that's okay We got both chains and cloth users in todays runs, I was playing wlwd to compare the dmg post-patch. And this resulted in the mentioned experience. At least for our guild it will be a mage meta I guess. But if wlwd is fine / well balanced and mage not op, that's acceptable for me.

Yes, no hard feelings.

Just like any other post, this is just an opinion based on my experiences:

Warlock:

Warlock classes are in a good spot. They seem quite strong, fun too play and offer some good group support. They kind of ignore the additional nervs to the magic dmg output compared to the physical dmg output because they do the warped charge for themselfes which is a quality that the mage lacks (Jerath). They have good bossdmg, some aoe's and can keep up with the other classes if played well.

->fine in my opinion, can stay like this.

Mage:

Mages are in a good spot as well, except for a small issue i will further elaborate on at the end. Fun to play, really good when it comes to bursting large trashgroups, okay'ish boss dmg on a couple sub-classes and terrible on the rest. Since there are trashmobs in almost every bossfight these classes are all very playable. So whats the issue you might ask? While you are the mantis killing, staff-wielding lunatic your class is supposed to be by design (casting literal thunderstorms down upon your enemies) there is one class that does all that better. The champion has higher burst in said large trash groups and outperforms mages at bossdmg, offers good group support, is able to heal, tanks with the press of a button and is at 0 risk of dying, because he has a lot of stats from his chain gear and passive skills, as well as a free phoenix. That class gets a full free minute at Jerath just like that...

-> tldr: i am outperformed at the thing i am supposed to be the best at with my class and i dont have the group support to make up for it (on most mage classes anyway)

To be honest i dont care at the end of the day. I just want to ask what the point of all the balancing is. Is the goal that every class can do everything? Or is it supposed to be connected to payoffs? (meaning one class is good at something but bad at the other thing) Because champion seems to be good at everything.

Excited to hear other opinions on this.

~kind regards Noodlez

I wrote a bit

I've been looking at these changes to mag dps for a few patches now and some of the changes are so badly missed.... So far I've played practically every mage combo except m/ch ( don't like rage combo XD), wrl/wd, wrl/r and d/wrl.

First of all general change on storm x2, in my opinion it doesn't weaken dps of mages on instance, because it's not main skill of aoe ( due to it has cd). You want to actually nerf the dps of mages change static field, which on every mage is the strongest aoe skill. Personally I think that this skill should get a mega nerf, because practically every mage has his individual aoe skill from elite skills, but in general it's not worth to use them ( except m/wd and m/d, because there you can use these skills practically simultaneously and m/k, which has aoe giving bonus to light).

Evaluating the recent m/d changes, of course they are all for a big +, but they don't make this combination suddenly the best mage ( hard to compete with a mega good m/s or m/wd). My bet is that he is currently somewhere on the level of m/r, meaning he will do good dps, but not the best of all mags. I'm waiting for m/p corrections, which has been forgotten a bit????

I kinda don't understand forumers who say that d/wrl is weaker than mages, I walk around with it quite often, and after the recent changes ( where we can practically keep 20 points of nature all the time) and strengthening the dmg from poison, it makes a very good dps. ( well and it is in my opinion the perfect combination for beginner magic dps, because it has very much mattu ). I haven't played d/r yet, but seeing elite skills it seems to be such a druid equivalent of m/s in making dps.

For wrl/wd in my opinion nothing has changed after a few nerfs, continues to be a super combination with good dps overall. Changes on wrl/r all for +, but to play it well in ROFL, we need a w/p in the team to not die from aoe trash skills.

And then there's that w/m XDD. A combination that is in my opinion the weakest magic dps because there are no specific reinforcements on it. You changed that skills don't cause gcd, increased aoe ranges, cast time of 1 skill to 1 second. Everything is fine, but why do these skills still hit from wind instead of fire>???? I think that 1h weapon+ talisman combination is meant for w/m only we have one small problem here. Talisman only amplifies fire damage, where on w/m fire damage is dealt by white attack and 1 skill. Everything else deals wind damage. Personally I would suggest changing the talisman ( that would be best) to give bonus to all element types, but I'm realistic and I'd rather see a change that all w/m skills deal fire damage ( it's a bit weird to introduce 2 elemental dmg without giving bonus to any element, like on mages)

Finally I would like to add my idea. We have many set skills which are duplicated ( some even repeat 3 times). A lot of skills are unchanged and give ridiculous bonuses like magic accuracy. Maybe it is worth to change weaker equivalents of set skils and introduce skills for those unusual combinations like magic warrior, magic/physical beating druid, physical beating priest, healing sorcerer etc.The game only starts on the final instances anyway and low level skills are only pulled by collectors, and so there would be more interest.

Quote from Virek

Finally I would like to add my idea. We have many set skills which are duplicated ( some even repeat 3 times). A lot of skills are unchanged and give ridiculous bonuses like magic accuracy. Maybe it is worth to change weaker equivalents of set skils and introduce skills for those unusual combinations like magic warrior, magic/physical beating druid, physical beating priest, healing sorcerer etc.The game only starts on the final instances anyway and low level skills are only pulled by collectors, and so there would be more interest.

Interesting Idea .

This does not apply only too mage but too all classes (correct me if im wrong)

For example Scout . All Setskills below Bethomia ( lvl 80) are either useless(e.g lvl 70 from TosH) or are in a better form available in higher InI´s.

Maybe its possible to change them too be usefull again / make the low lvl instances worth to farm for SetSkills ?

Greetings