Posts by MidanLauert

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Hi there.

    I really like the K/WL but the class is lacking when it comes to meaningful combos. This is mainly due to the high focus cost of it's non-gcd skills and how brutally useless Strike of Punishment is. The changes I would like to propose are the following: Strike of Punishment should restore focus and be useable without a gcd. This would fix both issues. It wouldn't be too strong either as it's own cooldown of 7 seconds prevents spamming and it's damage is quite small.


    Just to clarify: I am speaking about the hit with the ID 1490840 and not 1490839. Punishment itself is fine!

  • Ch/Ds Heavy doesnt stack with other heavy strikes

    Hi. In the screenshots you see that the debuff from Heavy Strike of the Ch/M (ID 621164) is taken down by the /d heavy strike. (ID 1500934) and prevents further stacking.

    In the screenshots you can see my buddy stacking to three, then me using heavy strike twice to stack mine, preventing his stack.


    Could these be made stackable from 3 on? Thanks!

  • Wd/Ch Master of Aggro does nothing

    Quote from Byte
    Quote from MidanLauert

    Hi.

    Warden/Champions Level 45 Elite skill, Master of Aggro (passive, ID:14905259) does nothing.

    No aggro is transferred between the pet and the summoner, rendering the class useless.

    Please fix it, thanks!

    This must be a translation issue and will be corrected, the skill is increasing your aggro by 75% passively. That mechanic has been removed months ago due to being unable to manage it properly in current aggro formula.


    Greetings

    Oh, thanks for notifying me. That is a real bummer.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from melodic

    So these values may not be the most accurate ones, but accurate enough to be able to conclude that wl/wd was way too strong overall, also regarding the other aspects Sean pointed out in his post. I believe this was the whole point, weighing in on the ongoing discussion with that based conclusion.

    I think it got lost in the argument that people weren't against the nerf in general but rather were trying to find the scope with which the nerf should happen. Things often get heated here 'cause of misunderstandings and the lack of possibilities in communication via text. I think everyone active in here would benefit from giving each other the benefit of the doubt. :)

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex

    It is kinda funny how ppl think WL/wrd is weak. If you can play this class, this is absolute OP. It is also kinda funny that nearly all saying WL/wrd is weak and nearly all mdps playing WL/wrd or WL/s. Nothing more to comment from mine. Only one more fact. A Scout (me) dealing 150kk+ with a snipe fullbuffed on bosses had no chance against the new WL... We will see what changes are coming and how the devs think about the class

    Nobody in this thread said that the class is weak. The class is too strong and basically everyone agrees. The sledgehammer approach to nerfing it is just too radical and direct changes to playstyle are not really a crowd pleaser either. This is what is being argued about. Things in these discussions aren't as black and white. People are against specific nerfs but not the concept of a nerf for the class in general.

    Quote from xLutinex

    Btw we tested all. Scout/w and WL/wrd in all situations. Burst aoe, sustain aoe, sustain single target and burst single target. The WL/warden was always! on top

    By how much was it on top? It would be cool to see some raw data on this, as in our runs it was that anything burst the wl/wd was on top, but sustained damage the class kinda sucked.


    ~ Midan

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from Nghty
    Quote from Ryzek

    I mean its a scout and besides, the Scout has no element damage.

    Scout has no element damage? Scout/warlock does element damage, Scout/mage does element damage and Wind Arrows deal element damage on every scout.

    Maybe scout does less aoe dmg than other combinations because his aoes are limited but saying scout is doing less damage and then he does no element damage in the next sentence is simply not true!


    Greetings

    scout/warrior deals none and wind arrows deal only phsyical damage...


    come on.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MidanLauert

    It makes a hell of a difference. If you have more damage dealers (especially good ones) factors like pacing (and in turn movement speed or range) directly translate to damage dealt by the individuals. Those are not very important when damage dealers needn't compete with each other. The result (dead monsters) is the same, the way (2dds + many supps vs many damage dealers) is very different.

    In fact we had 2 range dps and a WL/M. Nothing more. So it doesnt make a difference for our comparison. In fact, Scout would be even a bit more weaker than WL/wrd, because the Scout has casts/Channels, which he cannot bring to target with more dps. The WL/wrd would in this situation even more stronger


    Kind regards

    WL/M specifically boosts elemental damage alongside it's other support skills. Short cooldown burst is already king for trash for ROFL, which the wl excels at (and the wl/wd even moreso). With very little damage dealers to compete in terms of trash this accellerates the issue even further. Scout also doesn't deal much elemental damage outside of specific combinations. That scrutinizer isn't saying as much as you present it to be. It is basically non-applicable to any other guild out there and should therefore not be used for general balancing.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from Sean
    Quote from MidanLauert

    Wait, do you usually run with only two/three damage dealers? This might explain the differences in perception other guilds find with you so often find in this thread.

    Doesn't make much difference, mobs and bosses die to fast in both cases. Rofl has not enough hp/def for more than two well equiped dps. Big pulls die instantly & mobs don't live much longer. We had two addphases on last one, so yeah 0-1 with more ppl, not so much impact. In fact, I'm quite certain wl/Wd will be even stronger if fights last longer in the future.

    It makes a hell of a difference. If you have more damage dealers (especially good ones) factors like pacing (and in turn movement speed or range) directly translate to damage dealt by the individuals. Those are not very important when damage dealers needn't compete with each other. The result (dead monsters) is the same, the way (2dds + many supps vs many damage dealers) is very different.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Wait, do you usually run with only two/three damage dealers? This might explain the differences in perception other guilds find with you so often find in this thread.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Oh, Sorry. I totally misunderstood the entire thing. I know this rota and you are right. Thank you for clarifying!

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from espar91
    Quote from MidanLauert

    Would you be so kind to clarify what you mean with "sustained burst"? Those are two mutually exclusive things. Do you mean short cooldown burst?

    wl/s has always same damage until you lose a buff, thats what i mean by sustained burst

    Yeah, that's how buffs work...? Your point doesnt make much sense. Damage his higher with buffs. Do you mean that those buffs are too frequent?



    Quote from espar91


    wl/wd is using 3 skills immediately in first second, then using 3 + 2 (3 if you have 104lv iss) ruthless judgment and it starts to slowdown due to wait time of 2 psi regeneration while wl/s is doing 1.5 sec channel always which is enough time to gain required psi for next cast which is reason i call it more reliable (more likely stable)

    Yup, it's very interesting how it works.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from espar91

    - wl/s has more reliable sustained burst, wl/wd losing burst after you waste your all burst psi (6+4 seconds) but its still alot stronger than wl/s in terms of burst, especially in aoe

    Would you be so kind to clarify what you mean with "sustained burst"? Those are two mutually exclusive things. Do you mean short cooldown burst?

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MidanLauert

    The Shock strike will still be on a 3 second cooldown, if the general changes are consistant. The problem is that one must use their aggro skills to keep the aggro. Electrocution chain is a GCD that does not generate extra aggro. In that time you must catch up to the other players aggro. Consistency is key in farming in end-game scenarios. And if aggro is such a non-issue, why should one nerf it? The entire point makes absolutely no sense. It comes across as a knee-jerk reaction over points that aren't even sensible.

    Because nobody wanted to report tanks. Because in 99% player are reporting to OP dps

    If you think the class is broken, play it, gather definitive data, present it. Baseless accusations like "muh x is op" lead nowhere.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from Serenadae

    "The Knight currently has no aggro problems."

    Indeed. That's why K/Ch will be fine, even with 6 sec cd on Shock Strike.

    "The entire point is that aggro should not be changed otherwise there will be issues."

    Not a single Knight combination has to rely on secondary-class specific skills to build and hold aggro. The default Knight skills are more than enough.

    The Shock strike will still be on a 3 second cooldown, if the general changes are consistant. The problem is that one must use their aggro skills to keep the aggro. Electrocution chain is a GCD that does not generate extra aggro. In that time you must catch up to the other players aggro. Consistency is key in farming in end-game scenarios. And if aggro is such a non-issue, why should one nerf it? The entire point makes absolutely no sense. It comes across as a knee-jerk reaction over points that aren't even sensible.

    Quote

    Champion

    • Reduced Shock Strike cooldown to 3 seconds from 6 seconds, reduced aggro modifier with Shield Form to 500% from 1000%, same target won’t get stunned again after 3 seconds of first stun, but still will be interrupted.

    Knight/Champion

    • Changed Mighty Strike to do not reduce cooldown of Shock Strike anymore.


    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from MidanLauert

    Because the K/Ch is balanced around it's Electrocution Chain, a skill that provides no aggro multi. You are not able to hold aggro after pulling without an AoE. Whirlwind shield is not enough for aggro if you have high area damage classes. That is the entire issue.
    Taking down those multis makes the CC borderline useless. Come on. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

    Tell me? How can tanks like K/M, K/P, K/S and K/D can hold aggro in such situations only with their whirlwind shield?

    It's not a hard concept to grasp.

    'cause Electrocution chain doesn't generate extra aggro. One quick AoE from a strong warden and he's got aggro during the gcd. If the whirlwind shield isn't enough that DD is dead. This scenario happens more than you think. Consistency is key to farming endgame instances. This change would make the K/Ch to be less consistent.

    The other classes do not use a non-aggro skill for crowd control at the start of most packs.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex

    Again. Even Zyrex said that EVERY TANK has no aggro problems. wo WHY is that a PROBLEM nerfing the shock strike aggro multiplier?

    Whirlwind SHield with an aggro multi of 1000% is nearly enough to be afk after 1 WS in a single trash group.


    I tried every tank combination. really every. every class can hold aggro but K/R and K/Ch are kinda a joke in aggro as it is now

    Because the K/Ch is balanced around it's Electrocution Chain, a skill that provides no aggro multi. You are not able to hold aggro after pulling without an AoE. Whirlwind shield is not enough for aggro if you have high area damage classes. That is the entire issue.
    Taking down those multis makes the CC borderline useless. Come on. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    1) Arrogance made the big leaders fall. Don't be like them. Exile is not a fun thing to be in. Arrogance also heavily diminishes your credibility as you've shown partisanship in this discussion. Your pride is getting in the way of your own point.

    2) The Knight currently has no aggro problems. The entire point is that aggro should not be changed otherwise there will be issues.
    The general cooldown of three seconds and the removal of re-stuns (turning them into interrupts) is already enough of a nerf to that cc.


    3) Why are you even talking about fixed numbers? We do not in fact have the proper number for the K/Chs aggro, since the knight doesn't even have the condition for shield form. That is the entire problem here. Zyrex simply asked if that change for the condition also affected the K/Chs aggro.


    Please refrain from arguing about things that are not public knowledge or provide definitive proof of aggro multis. Educated guesses are not proof.

    The community may be inclined to believe you but... 1).

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Zyrex

    I play K/Ch only, since 1 week after it came out. I think talking about aggro potential as a knight is useless since all knight combos can hold aggro without any problem. So it's just a matter of utility and K/Ch has a lot of this, which is the core functionality of this class.
    You don't just tank and do your own stuff, but you support your entire raid by a huge CC mechanic. The stacking, stunning, interrupting mechanics make this class unique, also the 3s are required for some specific parts in rofl. Increasing the cd would fail the purpose of the class imo. It's not that tanky as others and you always need to keep your stacks at 10 not to loose your def. Also the cone AoE requires some movement on many situation, even in our greater pulls.


    However, talking about knight tank balancing seems to be a waste of time imho, because as mentioned, you can even play without any sec class to hold aggro, it doesn't matter if you have 100kk aggro after burst or 150kk. And every tank subclass has its own playstyle, that's why I'm playing this class and not a Ch/K. And if it comes to the topic which knight subclasses are too strong, the K/Ch wouldn't be on the first 2 or 3 places (but that could be a discussion for itself I guess). :/ Also seeing few tanks not playing K/R is a good thing in my opinion ;)

    And yes, shock strike, a nearly spammable 1000% aggro multiplier skill hmmm.... the reduce to 500% is also not noticable as a K/CH, because you have the highest damage passive of all knights. So please don't say something about aggro. The one knight which is having aggro "problems" is the K/P, because reducing aggro of raidmembers in 2021 is kinda useless, if all are at 10% without this skill ^^

    "So please don't say something about aggro." Not a very nice way to discuss something. Don't tell people what to say and what not to say unless you want to come across as arrogant and condescending.


    The K/Chs whole thing is that he controls monsters. That's it. He needs a good aggro skill since one of his main mechanics, electrocution chain, does not generate any. It's cooldown resets when monsters die, hence removing the need to use it again. The whole argument "you can use it multiple times" is invalid simply because moving dead monsters is frankly useless. A low cooldown hit is absolutely vital to the integrity of the class and whirling shield just does not cut it alone.

    If there is any Knight being broken right now it's K/R. Seriously. There's a reason every meta chaser plays that class: Incredibly low skill ceiling, two aggro areas, free crit, extra def and sustaining oneself. Also the attack speed passive, nimble hands, grants a nice boost passive boost to ones aggro, since all aggro skills are based on DPS, not flat damage. Sure it's not as high as the K/Chs, but it's something.

    It's seems like you can't see the absolute value of classes because you haven't properly played them yet, but that's just my two cents.


    I fully agree on K/P though. Class could use an update to make it more relevant.

  • Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    There are some fundamental problems concerning the balance from the basis of the instance of rofl. It is a bad basis to try and balance around as damage and survivability can heavily vary between players due to differing styles of tanking/supporting, as well as the randomness within bosses and trash themselves.

    a) Damage will vary depending on content.

    Boss 1: Area of Effect classes are incredibly favourable to it, falsifying the actual damage dealt between bosskillers and trashers.
    Boss 2: Circle randomness can easily skew the recorded damage into either direction
    Boss 3: You go in and you deal damage. Otherwise it's 0.
    Boss 4: Not really random, more tab-luck.
    Boss 5: Depending on events and who gets them, damage can be really random.
    Trash: Depending on the confidence and ability of tanks, classes may feel very strong or useless.

    b) Playstyle is everything.

    If you have a tank that just steadily runs and pulls one mob by another, killing most of the monsters while being on the run, classes like scouts and champions have the upper hand in dealing damage, simply due to their damage being consistant and less burst based on monsters. If your tank likes to group up enemies because they can handle the heat and make sure their party doesn't die (as in, having enough crowd control in party to protect everyone), classes like the mage or warden will excel due to their high burst aoe type damage.


    c) Supports are far more important than given credit.

    We all know the warlock, but did you know that you can get an additional 17% multiplicative and another 24.5% multiplicative damage by just having a S/P and a Ch/D in your party? Depending on your supports though, burst classes may be favoured or DPS classes may be on top.


    d) Damage isn't everything.

    Especially when you come into the very high end of ROFL where most of your party has their golden gear and seeks to complete the instance for mostly income, Utility becomes much more of a factor in farming the instance consistant than damage. If you can prevent a wipe with a clutch cyclone you just saved yourself and the party 3-5 minutes, contributing to efficiency much more than another, higher DPS class would.


    Conclusion:
    Player gathered data that does not take the difference of tanks, supports and randomness into account is factually useless in determining balance between classes. What may seem overpowered in one group may just suck hard in others. The variance is so big that there is no conclusive evidence to be gathered from posting random scrutinizers without proper context.

    The team does a fantastic job in balancing and their efforts are often overlooked within the community. Generally speaking, the availability between classes and the feeling that you can be useful with practically any class is remarkable. Yes, statistical outliers happen, but generally speaking, they are few and far in between.