I don't understand this sudden huge effort to change blood arrow. Many classes have it (not only main scouts) and there are other bleeds in the game. Not a disadvantage in any raid.
Blood arrow is just something you need to get used to. It's good as it is. I can see how putting trust in other people might be hard for other people. Champions have a mini-blood arrow mechanic, warrior/champ uses it's own life to attack and the above mentioned classes have a bleed. They don't need a rework either.
Perhaps I do not have knowledge as far as you are. However, I remember times when it was not such a difficulty. I also think that the number of people not playing with blood arrow calls may indicate that this is not a well-liked system.
I can only speak from scout as a secondary class, but I must honestly say that any DPS or Tank for that matter feels kinda bad to use with the blood arrow. The classes are over-reliant on it. Reworking the blood arrow would definitely make for a more interesting scout, as the current one is pretty boring. That being said, this is just my opinion. I would like to see a change but it is not as important as other matters right now.
I would suggest to change the stones to the first version
Agreed. Maybe they can keep the level up but like this it's pretty overtuned. We did it today, but without really good coordination and a bit of luck it's almost not possible.
Hey ,
Edit: Please think about putting a teleport Crystal in the Instance ( maybe when u Kill boss 3 jiasha?) and/or allow Ostrich Courier to be used ( 1244307)
Greetings
totally support the crystal, but ostrich doesn't drop out in combat, you could probably infinitely kite bosses then, lol 
That all classes will do the same damage is nearly impossible. Some classes does more or less damage depending on raid setup or the skills of wl/m. Some classes has more survivability. Some classes are way easier to play. I think you can answer yourself, that the solution is not that all classes should so the same damage. The meta would shift in a direction where the easier or more survivability classes would only be played. Total understable if players do this.
I couldn't agree more. The base of the balancing was that every class is viable - which just was not the case beforehand. The base game had power differences that were tenfold of what they are now. Now that nearly every class is playable in the endgame, the focus should imho shift on diversifying the classes as much as possible.
The s/m is a good example of this. Positioning is more important than on other scouts and plays different as a result. Just to clarify, I am not talking about using other skills - but rather gameplay interacting with the base of your character. Warriors (with the exception of the w/k) all just kind of play alike. It's a bit boring. Perhaps we could try to get different, interesting mechanics into the classes to differentiate them on another axis than just damage&survivability.
Have a blessed day,
Midan
Hello,
could you guys remove the 10 rage cost from "Deathland Protection" (ID: 499848) from the ch/w? It's the equivalent to the champ mage and a permanent buff. Removing the rage wouldn't do in terms of strength for the class, but rebuffing would be a lot less tedious.
Besides, maybe something can be done for the classes "Slash" (ID: 498583) and "Powerslash" (ID: 498582), as it's pretty useless, due to the only upside being a lack of CD - which isn't as important due to the passive reset in the skill "Eye for an eye". It also deals less damage and costs more rage. Perhaps the rage cost could be reduced a little, perhaps to ~10?
Thank you and have a blessed day,
Midan
Second paragraph: I will not deny the possibility of me being wrong in this entire discussion. It was more about the way you guys are representing yourselves on the forums. But whatever this is a discussion thread so lets keep it at that.
Third part: Totally agree. But still people(guilds) would need to work together since different setups(raid combinations, support etc.) would just yield the same variet results we have at the moment. But yeah maybe a really good step to finally get balancing peace.
I agree. The forum generally is a bad place to judge character, as many of us have learned the hard way. People sounding like absolute jerks here are actually quite friendly when you talk to them. I would like to make sure no bad blood remains from this interaction here. 
A uniform testing environment would be insanely advantageous to determining the notbale outliers - perhaps we could rework the PvP arena to be a multi-target zone, different corners with different (de)buffs being applied (e.g. none, wl buffs only, additional supports...) and give the baltons in the itnal camp the immunity to aoe of the organs in Jerath have, so that you can have a true single-target experience.
I'm genuinely sorry that you're getting that impression from us. I can guarantee that none of our guildies feel that way in regards to other guilds - we're a pretty chill bunch. Please do not take the fervent defenses as aggression. Misunderstandings in these threads happen all the time, as you know. I am sure, just like me, Zyrex didn't mean to personally attack you.
In regards to staying on topic though: You can basically play any character by hand. Won't be as good though!
-First part: I just see you guys acting all high and mighty on the forums while not really delivering ingame, but i cant check your internal guild runs so whatever.
I'm pretty sure that this is simply an issue where the inflection of how things are being said is lost - and the way of arguing against each other taints the participants judgements, me included, to a tone where it seems like one party is attacking the other, even though no hostility is being meant. I am sorry for that. Text sucks at conveying that information. Please know that we're not about that.
That being said, an open forum like that is made to express opinions, regardless of status. The technocratic approach doesn't work due to human nature being biased. Regardless of that: The claim we're not delivering... is interesting. What do you mean by that? We run rofl, average time is about an hour. Frankly, we chill most of the time and don't sweat through. Our fastet run was just below the 45 minute mark (post patch). Having a better run doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid.
-Second part: Do you really believe we play by hand or kittycombo?
Anyway the point was you dont really have to play mage classes with a script or addon unless it is something like m/wd that spams multiple non gcd skills. Otherwise the dmg will be roughly the same.
I know you don't, I never said you are and I don't know why you think I would for a second believe that. You're in a guild with some of the most skilled and equipped people, there's no doubt about that. Of course you wouldn't squash that potential by not using anything to help you out.
I just wonder why it's being brought up. Mages are mostly simple, yet automating the damage process just adds so much consistency that it definitely makes a difference in the long run.
I see, my post was completely understood correctly...
Well.. whatever. I think it's a huge difference to play a mage class with kitty vs lua, but there also opinions divide.
But hey, being part of the guild Ascension means you are intellectually above me and your opinion is worth more than mine even tho you contradict yourself.
I'm genuinely sorry that you're getting that impression from us. I can guarantee that none of our guildies feel that way in regards to other guilds - we're a pretty chill bunch. Please do not take the fervent defenses as aggression. Misunderstandings in these threads happen all the time, as you know. I am sure, just like me, Zyrex didn't mean to personally attack you.
Most mages can actually be played by hand, i have legit zero clue what you are talking about.
In regards to staying on topic though: You can basically play any character by hand. Won't be as good though!
Display MoreDisplay MoreSo many posts in here are going in circles and splitting hairs. The general sentiment is that there is a huge disparity in the mDPS-Scene, nothing more. You agree on that. The nitty gritty is something that the development team has to take into their hands.
The main issue in this thread, is that the suggestion of an even basis for balancing is absolutely laughable. This makes most data gathered, frankly, quite useless. Just look at the things outside the game: Someone playing with a Kittycombo will never reach the same dps as someone with an OK Lua. Luas are personalized and vary a lot. Guilds keep their tech mostly secret which just elevates the differences in experiences and output. How does anyone here expect to get accurate balancing from skewed data?
Literally every rule in the book about gathering data is being broken here - and the decisions being made based on that data are thereby often not fact-based.
Especially the process of getting one's collected data heard is questionable at best, as many people treat this thread as a popularity contest to boost their egos under the thin veil of trying to do what's best for the game. The system of "who can scream the loudest" was abolished in the dark ages, yet consistently the most upvoted posts are implemented. Guildies will always up vote their friends posts - removing the validity of that system entirely. Dogpiling for influence is a bad tactic that will get bad results.
The stream of soley endgame focused decisions has wrecked the progression for the midgame, as the only way to properly progress nowadays is to spend a good chunk of money or leeching. This leads to either the players quitting early or having a TON of leechers running around. We all can agree that neither of those things are a positive for the game. Yes, it's as easy now as when the endgame has done it in the past, but the feeling of progression being deleted has caused so many players to quit.
A lot of guilds are shouting for the same roles to be filled over and over again with seemingly no one coming. This thread needs to take the needs and wants of less experienced players more seriously in order to keep a steady stream of newer players coming. They are the future. One day your guildies are going to quit. One day you will log out for the last time of this game. Until then, you should work on keeping the game alive, not serving yourself.
i agree that new players are future of arcadia, but then what do you suggest? boost new players even if it is going to boost experienced players alot because news are arcadia's future?
I'm just urging people to stop and think if the, in the past, drastic nerfs being proposed may impact other facets of the game more than their own. ROFL as an instance is due to be replaced, Gorge is generally disliked and Inferno isn't profitable enough to be ran. The community wishes for a new instance since a while now.
What I propose is, band-aid fixes (which the 30% overall dmg nerf was) that burn other players now need to be stopped, the focus of the dev team should instead be on trying to make as many classes as diverse and viable as possible. I must praise the development team for implementing the s/m the way it is. It's a super creative class that rewards good positioning, works differently than any other class and is generally interesting to play. It was way too strong at the beginning, but that was to be expected from something so new.
The quintessenceof what I am saying is:
1) No amount of buffs or nerfs will make rofl and gorge any less boring
2) The exponantial nature of the game works in both directions, f*ing over the smaller guys more than the big dogs.
Here is exactly what I mean:
Youtube.
Basically the rest of my post, but this also includes the other discussions (like in laishas post) going on, hence the generalized wording in the part you quoted.
So yeah, i dont think the mid game you are talking about really exists and all balancing decisions should be for the end game.
I'd just like to point out that you are doing exactly what you criticize Zyrex for. You aren't interacting with the very thing you're commenting on. The midgame does exist and is much heavier impacted by nerfs than the endgame, simply due to the exponantional nature of the game.
Guilds like e.g. Avengement were able to run rofl here and there before some of the heavier patches happening in the past. They had some capable players that were bound by time rather than skill and willingness to spend. They then were banished into Gorge before a good portion of them flat out quit the game. This has happened on multiple occasions and is the very reason the noobies, the people actually starting out, find a hollowed out game. If this server is supposed to survive, those players are insanely important.
It's easy to miss the trees with your head in the clouds. The milleus between the players is so different to a point where they don't interact with each other anymore.
So many posts in here are going in circles and splitting hairs. The general sentiment is that there is a huge disparity in the mDPS-Scene, nothing more. You agree on that. The nitty gritty is something that the development team has to take into their hands.
Well it is just me and Zyrex having different opinions while Zyrex is admitting that he isnt even active and afterwards liking posts of his guild members which appear to have the exact same opinion as me so idk mate. xD
Or am i missing something?
Basically the rest of my post, but this also includes the other discussions (like in laishas post) going on, hence the generalized wording in the part you quoted.
So many posts in here are going in circles and splitting hairs. The general sentiment is that there is a huge disparity in the mDPS-Scene, nothing more. You agree on that. The nitty gritty is something that the development team has to take into their hands.
The main issue in this thread, is that the suggestion of an even basis for balancing is absolutely laughable. This makes most data gathered, frankly, quite useless. Just look at the things outside the game: Someone playing with a Kittycombo will never reach the same dps as someone with an OK Lua. Luas are personalized and vary a lot. Guilds keep their tech mostly secret which just elevates the differences in experiences and output. How does anyone here expect to get accurate balancing from skewed data?
Literally every rule in the book about gathering data is being broken here - and the decisions being made based on that data are thereby often not fact-based.
Especially the process of getting one's collected data heard is questionable at best, as many people treat this thread as a popularity contest to boost their egos under the thin veil of trying to do what's best for the game. The system of "who can scream the loudest" was abolished in the dark ages, yet consistently the most upvoted posts are implemented. Guildies will always up vote their friends posts - removing the validity of that system entirely. Dogpiling for influence is a bad tactic that will get bad results.
The stream of soley endgame focused decisions has wrecked the progression for the midgame, as the only way to properly progress nowadays is to spend a good chunk of money or leeching. This leads to either the players quitting early or having a TON of leechers running around. We all can agree that neither of those things are a positive for the game. Yes, it's as easy now as when the endgame has done it in the past, but the feeling of progression being deleted has caused so many players to quit.
A lot of guilds are shouting for the same roles to be filled over and over again with seemingly no one coming. This thread needs to take the needs and wants of less experienced players more seriously in order to keep a steady stream of newer players coming. They are the future. One day your guildies are going to quit. One day you will log out for the last time of this game. Until then, you should work on keeping the game alive, not serving yourself.
Greetings,
Could we get some mana cost reductions on the champ/wardens skills? It's a bit ridiculous how much mana it's spells cost. Maybe half the cost of thorny strike (1490565) and frantic slash (1490563)? Burning through an entire stack of lvl 100 mana stones per run isn't very fun.
Thank you and have a beautiful day,
MidanJust use "Magic Fruit Pie" and E-Pots like every other class that burns through Mana. Or run with a heal that can restore Mana.
I'm deliberately asking for some qol and nothing more, it's not a thing that would break the class.
Greetings,
Could we get some mana cost reductions on the champ/wardens skills? It's a bit ridiculous how much mana it's spells cost. Maybe half the cost of thorny strike (1490565) and frantic slash (1490563)? Burning through an entire stack of lvl 100 mana stones per run isn't very fun.
Thank you and have a beautiful day,
Midan
This is an absolutely fantastic change and removes the entire FOMO from the system.
Thank you.
Why bye bye? I understand it, that you still buff the group with attack and cast speed at the same time. Only change is, that the cast speed is a separate buff now
Changed Holy Fury to do not apply cast speed to party members anymore; Hmm literally says is not group anymore?
Byte appear and explain please. If is like Lutine says, please use better sentence is confusing as hell.
You're just not reading the entire patch note.
Have a Blessed Day,
Midan
Regarding Scout/warrior and latest patch notes:
Changed Autoshot to get affected by global cooldown considerably lesser, reduced maximum amount that can be shot in a second to 1.67 from 5.Why actually have Scout/warrior Target Lock? With lute, WL/M and any other additional attackspeed buff, you are a bit over 1 Autoshot each second. Don't know for what you now need the skill Target Lock except for wasting a global cooldown hmmm
It is already possible to trigger things on-hit with classes (like with the s/wl). They should just re-use the mechanic and apply x hits to one's autoshot during TF. The skill is useless right now.
Hi. While training my weapon this happened. Bugged?
It's just 5 damage, but still...
Have a blessed day,
Midan
I would like to reiterate that this system needs a way like booster packs to fully function.
The volume of cards is too big to ever feasibly target-farm and upgrade them to the stats you need. Not to mention that you'll forever be locked into one nieche, as changing ~2.500 cards to the stats you need for the role of your choosing is way too much work for one player. The costs associated with this are also astronomical.
Here is what I would recommend be done
Currently Arcadias Endgame is quite stale, not only because people would like to see something other than one instance but also because there isn't all that much to do. Revive minigames this way, turn those booster packs into either buyables with currency (Phirius Shells. Would also make people spend diamonds for said currency!) or just as drops in said games. This would add a lot of content back into the game for literally any faction of player. Even the oldschool-ones that limit themselves to a lower level could theoretically do these minigames to gain an edge.
Have a blessed Day,
Midan
Display MoreRegarding Ch/Sc:
Thanks for implementing with Fearless Shot and changing Hide and Seek. This is a much better solution to make the class viable again. But one more question I ask myself, is it planned that the Fearless Shot will continue to consume chain drive or will a change be made here as well?
Thank you very much!!!!
Greetings
I think that is an intended mechanic, as chain drive increses your next rune pulse damage. Would make it kinda OP if it didn't consume chain drive - It would need to have the triggered rune pulse deal only it's base damage, too!
I also agree that the "new" changes are really cool. Thanks!!
EDIT: DARN YOU BYTE! YOU POSTED BEFORE ME! 
Have a blessed day,
Midan
I must agree on this. The class is doing pretty okay now but it's still hella uncomfortable to play. The blood-arrow buff is a good step to not make the class feel wonky, but the increases in cooldown... eh? I don't get them, honestly. The class isn't overperforming that much to justify such a nerf.
Have a blessed day,
MidanHonestly, you didn't saw the comparison (single target, AOE, burst, sustain) yesterday we did. It overperforms a bit. Maybe the upcoming change is a bit to hard and the Hide and Seek change should be cancelled first. But overall any change is needed for ch/s. The class has right now even more single target burst than a scout with same gear and prerequisites
Our leather-wearers entirely switched away from scouts, so the direct comparison like that wasn't there. xD I'm not against the changes in general, I just think they're a bit too harsh. Generally the recent changes have been pretty good overall. Good job, dev team!
Have a blessed day,
Midan
Champion/Scout
- Increased Hide and Seek cooldown time to 3 minutes from 2.
- Increased Pulsing Shot cooldown to 15 seconds from 10.
- Changed Bloody Armor to reduce HP loss per second of Blood Arrow to 2%.
Honestly, I simply have no sympathy for such changes. Are we actually playing the lottery or are we trying to suggest objective and possible changes for different classes with feedback as best we can. Where is all this going to lead?
I must agree on this. The class is doing pretty okay now but it's still hella uncomfortable to play. The blood-arrow buff is a good step to not make the class feel wonky, but the increases in cooldown... eh? I don't get them, honestly. The class isn't overperforming that much to justify such a nerf.
Have a blessed day,
Midan
or maybe nerf it step by step
Yes dear dev team, PLEASE NERF IT SLOWLY, dont be like "yea mage is strong, -25% dmg" instead just go -2% and see, -5% and see etc. You should handle it for everything like that imo. either buff or nerf slowly
Slow and steady wins the race. I think that many microadjustments instead of big patches would be a better option to achieve long term balance. Inching ever closer to the optimum.
We do not plan to change this class in this direction.
Greetings
Since you try to make this classcombo a "more melee based" how about making it ranged spells, but giving it extra dmg if you use it if you are close to the boss? as example the spells deal ~100% more dmg
I think the main issue of the class is that it doesn't have the neccessary tools to both survive and deal proper damage to targets in ROFL. The 15% more damage taken from it's blood arrow work directly against the interest of being a melee; if you reverse the classes, as in, champ/scout, that class suffers from the same problem from an opposing situation: Two debuffs that tick away our HP just wreck your survivability to a point where the class isn't really viable anymore. Here is what I recommend:
Flip the two blood arrows. Let the Ch/Scout take 15% more but not degenerate while the Scout/ch should degenerate but take 15% less. These defensive mechanics are important for melee classes to be viable below the absolute top tier - any rouge that isn't a r/p will agree to that - and the melee s/ch falls into that category too. Once it's "safe" to be a melee, damage adjustments would make a lot more sense.
