Champion Class [Feedback]

    I really hope some kind of buff for Champion/Mage finds its way into the next balancing patch. It is currently the worst Champion dps by far and a weak class in general.

    Although I'd personally prefer Ch/M as a 2h class, I think the best solution would be to change Elemental Rampage to a 15min buff.

    Regarding Champion/Scout.

    Please remove the gcd of Wrist Attack. Using a gcd on a supporting skill feels pretty bad as a dps.

    Moreover, I suggest changing Focused conversion to cost 50 Rage and restore 100 Focus instead of vice versa. Currently I don't use the skill at all, since the class has an overabundance of Rage due to Pulsing Shot's restoration and still struggles with Focus, especially in fast groups where you are basically never standing still.

    With the movementspeed Update, meleeclasses now have a harder time to to dps because Rangeclass can inflict most damage before melee can reach it.

    The Champion Class suffers from this the most, because of required whitehits (20 range).

    Therefore I suggest to modify Disasembly Mode to additionally increase movementspeed by 50%. With the new calculation formula this results in about ~20% movement speed in most cases which is not gamebreaking and arguably still too little.


    Furthermore (slightly offtopic) the main Tank of the party should have more movementspeed as well, preferably by boosting % movementspeed from Hoto/Necro Set.

    Regarding 1h hammer vs 2h hammer situation.

    Currently 1h hammer + Raw Dragon Scale outperforms 2h hammer in every scenario.

    The following tests were conducted with two t15 weapons (thanks to Madman).

    No relationship buffs, which would push the outcome even more in favor of 1h.


    Ch/S

    Blood Arrow, dmgfood, Pet, double titlesystem (9% dmg, -attackspeed)

    1h: 7.801.045 RP

    2h: 7.771.481 Rune Pulse


    fullbuffed

    1h: 43.229.924 RP

    2h: 41.203.677 RP

    Keep in mind, all Ch/S ranged skills profit from the 13,44% more damage from talisman, which makes 1h + tali vastly better than 2h.


    Ch/M

    Power from Within, dmgfood, Pet, double titlesystem(hammer dmg)

    1h: 11.029.404 RP

    2h: 11.038.737 RP

    1h would actually be better than 2h, even in offburst, since I didn't have a %dmg relationship buff.


    fullbuffed WITHOUT Elemental Rampage (which increases 1h dmg only)

    1h: 93.769.672 RP

    2h: 85.751.898 RP

    As you can see, quite the difference in burst, even without rampage, since Ch/M has many % damage buffs.


    Ch/Wl

    Selfbuffs + dmgfood, 7 forgestacks double system(hammer dmg)

    1h: 16.214.036 RP

    2h: 16.081.244 RP


    fullbuffed

    1h: 107.518.575

    2h: 101.721.561


    Haven't tested /Druid and /Priest explicitly, but judging from their buffs we can safely assume 1h outperforms 2h as well.


    Since the aforementioned classes won't reach the attackspeed cap either way, there is no drawback to using a 1hander. Quite on the contrary, you get more frequent Shock Overload procs, faster forge stacks, more Chain Drive procs and more patk (offhand).

    I don't play R/Ch myself, but I have been told that 1hammer + wb dagger outperforms 2h as well.


    The superiority of 1h stems mainly from the much better scaling of faster weapons (that have lower pdmg) with damage nonstats from gear, cenedril buff & robot and their interaction with % damage buffs. The new wb talisman made it even worse.


    I'm afraid it is no exaggeration to say that 2h hammers have become useless. To my knowledge, there is no other weapon that isn't best in slot for at least one single class combination. Even 2h axes have their use on Druid/Warrior.


    Please make 2h hammer a viable weapon again. Two possible changes that came to my mind:

    a) a significantly better %2h hammer damage title for the challenge slot

    b) increase Finishing hammer's 2h hammer damage increment


    tl;dr: 1h + talisman outperfoms 2h hammer in every way on all Champions, make 2h hammer viable again

    Yes, I also agree that 2h Hammer became useless with the explanations and calculations you have made (thanks for the effort btw).


    My anecdote for Rogue/Champion:

    2h Hammer is still considerably stronger in fullburst. But for me personally I rather just have 1h Hammer. At least I can use that weapon for Bard/Champion.

    Regarding DPS Ch/P


    Single target sustain and burst on this combo is not the best because all skills trigger gcd on it. I suggest removing gcd from "Holy Attack" (498723)

    and maybe increase the damage from "Way of Frenzy" (498720) slightly.

    As Madman already wrote, Ch/P lacks a lot of singletarget, which is why it's not really a viable dps right now.

    In addition to removing the gcd from Holy Attack I suggest increasing Way of Frenzy dmg increment from 10 to 15% and adding "Chain Drive resets the cd of Divine Vengeance" to Runecraft - Devotion (lvl 15 elite).

    Regarding Champion/Bard

    There is a bug right now where the second hit of Echo (ID: 1491526) does not get triggered, if any other skill does damage very shortly after the first hit of Echo (ID: 1491300).


    As a workaround with complicated but doable lua, you would have to add a fake Cooldown (representing the time it takes until the second hit comes) on all skills after Echo is used. Also you would have to not use Echo, if you are predicting Perfect Storm to trigger between the first and second hit of Echo.


    With these workarounds intact your dps is higher, but

    1) they are difficult for the average player to implement in lua

    2) ultimately cause dpsloss compared to the way Echo is intended to work


    Suggestion:

    Allow the second hit of Echo to trigger instantly similar like Tactical Attack from Warrior. Or just double the dmg of Echo if the required debuff is found on the target.

    However, if time and resources are not a a concern, a full fix would be appreciated, such that even if a skill comes between the first and second hit of Echo, the second Echo does not get prevented.


    EDIT:

    Even a whitehit between first and second Echo prevents the second Echohit. Now this is very unfortunate, imo increasing the urgency because you cannot just stop whitehitting.

    Quote from Byte
    Quote from ronandougal

    "Rune Overload" from Champion/Warrior stops after 10 seconds. can you fix this pls? or change the tooltip. thx.

    Not moving will result in losing similar buffs, it is our bot preventation.


    Greetings

    It is also intended that even if you are using skills you have to still move to prevent losing Rune Overload. For example if Im tanking a boss that doenst move and Im spamming my skills Rune Overload will also stop since Im not moving and its kinda annoying just having to move to prevent this. This also happens with K/m but since K/M aoe doenst have cd you can refresh it isntantly.

    • Official Post
    Quote from paluzara
    Quote from Byte

    Not moving will result in losing similar buffs, it is our bot preventation.


    Greetings

    It is also intended that even if you are using skills you have to still move to prevent losing Rune Overload. For example if Im tanking a boss that doenst move and Im spamming my skills Rune Overload will also stop since Im not moving and its kinda annoying just having to move to prevent this. This also happens with K/m but since K/M aoe doenst have cd you can refresh it isntantly.

    We are excluding custom content from this checker, if you give the instance where you need to stand idle without moving for long time, we could exclude it too.


    Greetings

    Quote from Byte
    Quote from paluzara

    It is also intended that even if you are using skills you have to still move to prevent losing Rune Overload. For example if Im tanking a boss that doenst move and Im spamming my skills Rune Overload will also stop since Im not moving and its kinda annoying just having to move to prevent this. This also happens with K/m but since K/M aoe doenst have cd you can refresh it isntantly.

    We are excluding custom content from this checker, if you give the instance where you need to stand idle without moving for long time, we could exclude it too.


    Greetings

    I didnt know that custom instances were exluded, then its perfect like this. I was just testing in atlas and I was losing it constantly fighting against the doomies thx for the answer

    Regarding Champion/Scout.

    Since the change to swapping ats titles affected this classes sustain quite heavily, I suggest the following.

    Reduce Focused Conversion from 60 seconds to 40 seconds, change its cost to 50 Rage, let it restore 100 Focus and remove global cooldown.

    Regarding Champion/Druid.

    Currently this class is not viable for endcontent, since it doesn't deal meaningful damage and its support doesn't make up for it. It's quite saddening to see such cool class design wasted on a typical leecher class. Hence I suggest the following changes in order to make Ch/D a viable support dps:

    - Mother Nature's Defense (lvl 30 elite): This skill is currently useless, since it requires Shield Form to work, but the class can't tank properly. Rename to Mother Nature's Offense: Increases Disassembly Mode's stamina to strength conversion from 20% to 25%.

    - Elven Bash (lvl 50 elite) to modify Heavy Bash: Change cost to MP, since since the class doesn't have another skill that doesn't require Rage or a proc. Let it deal damage in a fan shaped area in front of the player.

    - Recovery Blast (lvl 60 elite): Same problem here. Only usable in Shield Form and generally only useful for the 4 seconds immune. Rename to Pulsing Path: Modifies Earth Pulse to deal 550% + 0.3 x strength mainhand weapon earth damage in a fan shaped area (radius 100) in front of you. Reduces CD to 6 seconds.

    - Mother's Blessing (lvl 70 elite): Let it increase pdmg instead of HP (same 10,4%).


    Regarding Champion/Priest.

    Suffers the same issues as Ch/D (from a dps perspective). I am aware that this class is mainly designed to be a tank. However, given the dual nature of most Champions, there is no harm in it being a viable support dps as well. The following changes could be made:

    - Runecraft - Devotion(lvl 15 elite): Add 10% increased light damage.

    - Way of Frenzy(lvl 35 elite): Add Divine Vengeance CD to be reset by Chain Drive proc.

    - Suicidal Warfare (lvl 45 elite): Increase damage increment and pdef decrement from 11,2% to 20% respectively.

    - Holy Attack (lvl 50 elite skill): Remove CD, since the class doesn't have a singletarget spamable.

    - Righteous Explosion(lvl 70 elite skill): Reduce CD from 15 to 10 seconds.

    Regarding Champion/Rogue

    Removed Death Arrives 1-H Hammer damage gain, reduced cooldown to 60 seconds from 90, increased duration to 30 seconds from 20.


    The 32% dmg loss is understandable but the skill still has 90 sec CD. Can you take a closer look? Also is it possible to remove its GCD to have it behave as an emergency rage/energy-refill? Thanks

    • New

    Hi,

    I'd like to bring attention to the old Shock Overload bug that still persists.


    This here is a Heavy Bash.


    This is the same skill on the same class with the same buffs.


    So what happened? Well, in the second screen Heavy Bash was used the very same time Shock Overload procced. Shock Overload downscales its damage according to your missing Rage. However, the scaling is bugged and applies to every skill that is used in the same timeframe.


    This bug is especially devastating on classes like Ch/S and Ch/Wl that have hard hitting skills.

    Here a screen with Pulsing Shot, second one was used simultaneously with a Shock Overload proc:


    Could you please look into this Byte?

    • New
    • Official Post

    It will be fixed with next patch.


    Greetings

    • New
    Quote from Byte
    Quote from paluzara

    It is also intended that even if you are using skills you have to still move to prevent losing Rune Overload. For example if Im tanking a boss that doenst move and Im spamming my skills Rune Overload will also stop since Im not moving and its kinda annoying just having to move to prevent this. This also happens with K/m but since K/M aoe doenst have cd you can refresh it isntantly.

    We are excluding custom content from this checker, if you give the instance where you need to stand idle without moving for long time, we could exclude it too.


    Greetings

    Can you exclude boss event zone from this? Fighting against a 1kkk boss takes some time :)

    • New

    Champion/Scout

    • Changed Hide and Seek → Determination: You will get 30% damage reduction while in Shield Form and 30% physical damage while in Disassembly Mode permanently.

    and his skill Pulsing Shot (ID: 1490547) doing high aggro if used in Shield Form makes it almost a waste to not allow this class to wear Plate Gear.


    Can you adjust Determination (ID: 1490540) to also allow wearing Plate gear and if Fearless Shot (ID: 1490546) or Vampire Shot (ID: 1490698) gets used during Shield Form, it does AoE-Damage with increased aggro around the target?


    This class still has massive Focus problems. Can you modify one of the elite to recover 100 focus by using Fearless Blow (ID: 498531) similar to Champion/Rogue recovering 100 energy with Fearless Blow (ID: 498747)?

    • New

    Three bugs regarding Champion/Scout:

    - Fearless Shot deals damage to immune targets such as Zerdeon's Laborer during shield phase

    - The buff granted by Determination (lvl 20 elite) persists through zone changes, so you cant stack both the damage and the damage reduce buff

    - Focus Conversion (lvl 30 elite) focus regeneration buff doesn't work. Then again, it would be an useless skill even if it did work. Please consider the suggestion I brought forth some while ago, or fix it and increase the focus regeneration bonus to 100% from 40%. Either way, as Blackkid already stated, Champion/Scout struggles heavily with focus sustain and needs improvement in that regard.