Class Balance - "Madness and stupidity"

I think it is a stupid discussion about the shield form of the champion.

It is a unique skill, and if you remove it, or nerf it to the ground, especially what Madoxx have said, the champion will loose his unique style.

If your goal is to make all tank classes the same, or more of the same, pleaso do so, but my understanding of the multi class system is, that you have to keep the differences of the classes.

I don't think, that the Ch/K is overpowerd. He is very very tanky, yes, and has alot stuns - pretty strong tank class.

But he is lacking: 1. DMG-Reduction for the raid (like K/M), 2. Supporting with Raid-Buffs (like K/D, K/P)

I like its tankyness, but tbh if I had full tank gear, i would play Knight/Mage.

If you demand a nerf of Ch/k. Don't nerf generall Champion skills, that effect all Champ-Combos, but its elite skills

Quote from Zyrex

Let's clarify the problem more: Would you be happy if stamina plate wearing classes (like Knight/Warrior or Knight/Champ) deal more damage than strength chain classes? No, ofc not. But why would strength chain classes tank better than most/any stamina plate classes? 🤯

With much respect, but you are losing yourself in hyperbaly here. Champion Tanks have significant weaknesses in terms of AoE aggro, support and protection of ones team. You need to always stand at awkward angles in ROFL that lead to insanely annoying situations that can only be rectified by using your last-ditch-taunts to not end up in a trap. Your single-target aoe aggro is almost unbeatable though, as you wear a high DPS weapon (in the very most cases) and have insane aggro multipliers in rune pulse.

Generally speaking, I would also rank the knights defensive utilities higher than the champions, especially if you consider that much of a champions defense is very situational; the last multiplier on defense on a champion isn't always fully there (attack is the best defense), part of your damage reduction requires you to be low life and you lack a significant amount of parry. Granted, you do take about 30% less damage (20.6% base in shield form and 10% from the setskill) and can cheat death once, but that is about it. No reduction in enemy patk/damage, no shield of discipline, no support for your team. Switching to shield form also kills your damage, as you convert 87% of your strength to stamina, leaving you will a very low amount of physical attack.

These weaknesses lead the main tanks of basically every endgame guild to be knights (or sometimes wardens), but very rarely to be a champion. Sure they can, but it's clunky and unsafe. I agree though that Champ/Mages cross a line in terms of defensive capabilities; they're a tank running amok in chain gear.

Quote from Zyrex

This is not at all about making champs plate tanks. We just want to make sure that you need an adapted gear (as wl/k or a magical k/m do) to be able to tank. The only thing that is just unfair is that a chain dps strength build can tank equally or even better than other plate stamina builds.

Building nieche gear for a class is something that is possible right now; it's just not worth it because the pure chain tanks suck. They lack the defensive capabilities to properly survive without a real gain. WD/Ch would be a really, really, REALLY cool tank if one had defensive chain gear. One doesn't. Nobody does. It is simply not worth it to build.

Quote from xLutinex

You didn't get the point. Like Madox said, Shield Form was never fair.

I wholeheartedly disagree here. It is unfair in the ch/m that can stand on top of the scrutinizer and just presses one button to switch to "lol f*** you I'm the tank now" and uses a taunt in the trash to deal more damage. Void armour and the fact that it's permanent buff has no drawback the issure, not the shield form.
Ch/Wd and Ch/Wl are the only two other champions that are somewhat worth playing and both suffer as a tank with their permanent tradeoff-buffs. (15% more damage tanken and 20% less heal respectively).

Especially in the cases of /P and /W, Shield form is an absolute neccessity since the aggro multipliers on one of their main skills doesn't just go with switching into disassembly mode. The /S' blood arrow works directly against him and /K can't do anything but be in shield form and already wears plate.

Gutting shield form is not the solution here.

There is a general issue of tankiness between the roles here; the melee DPS is significantly more risky to play without a real reward. Your reaction time needs to be much higher, you need much more awareness and movement and you either need to build more defensively or have defensive buffs to stay alive on your own.

As long as you are not rocking at least one of your sets fully golden, you will have no chance but to sometimes switch to shield form simply to survive some of the melee aoes in RoFL as any champion other than /m. The trash is strong enough to oneshot people easily, unless they're already partially golden.

The proposal is to cut an entire class in half because knights aren't special enough anymore. Knights have significant strengths over the champion but aren't as versatile. The champion in turn isn't as safe as a tank and the only outlier when it comes in DPS is the Ch/M.

There are so much bigger fish to fry right now, though I agree that balancing tanks is very important.