Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

Hi, all Arcadians

I overthinked the current state about the Knight/Mage, Knight/Rouge, which are nice to play and easy to get/keep the aggro, like the Knight/Rouge, Knight/Mage.

Finally the Knight/Druid, which i really enjoy to play, but something is missing.

It is possible to play all of these combinations.

In one hand the Knight/Druid , got three Aoes to get the threat from the mobs , like the Knight/Rouge. But the Skill Earth Cleave does way to low aggro on mobs.

On the other hand you really got nice support for the raid.

All hits that i made were critical and on the exact same mob. Under the effect of threaten and the selfbuffs from the current class.

Knight/Druid under effect of : Potent Blessing, Threaten, Earthly Protection and at least Enhanced Armor.

Earth Cleave got an aggro multiplier by x2.5.

In comparison to this comes the Knight/Rouge with:

Knight/Rouge under effect of : Crazy Blades, Threaten, Panther's Blessing and at least Enhanced Armor.

Same mob and again critical hits. This skill hit two times and both hits were critical.

In this case you see there are 2 mobs, one which i hit onetime critical and one hit normal and the second mob which i hit two times critical.

The threat is way more higher in comparison with the threat from Earthcleave.

Also Dance of Two Blades got a lower cooldown from 5 seconds.

Earthcleave got a cooldown from 8 seconds, which is way to long i think.

Here is my suggestion:

Example 1

Reduce the cooldown from 8 to 5 seconds.

Example 2

In this case the aggro multiplier must be increased form 2.5 to 5.

Reduce the cooldown from 8 to 5 seconds.

Example 3

(Which i prefer the most)

Increase the aggro multiplier from 2.5 to 7.5 so it is nearly equal to the aggropoints with Dance of Two Blades.

Reduce the cooldown from 8 to 5 seconds.

Have a nice Day

Quote from xLutinex

It is kinda funny how ppl think WL/wrd is weak. If you can play this class, this is absolute OP. It is also kinda funny that nearly all saying WL/wrd is weak and nearly all mdps playing WL/wrd or WL/s. Nothing more to comment from mine. Only one more fact. A Scout (me) dealing 150kk+ with a snipe fullbuffed on bosses had no chance against the new WL... We will see what changes are coming and how the devs think about the class

Nobody in this thread said that the class is weak. The class is too strong and basically everyone agrees. The sledgehammer approach to nerfing it is just too radical and direct changes to playstyle are not really a crowd pleaser either. This is what is being argued about. Things in these discussions aren't as black and white. People are against specific nerfs but not the concept of a nerf for the class in general.

Quote from xLutinex

Btw we tested all. Scout/w and WL/wrd in all situations. Burst aoe, sustain aoe, sustain single target and burst single target. The WL/warden was always! on top

By how much was it on top? It would be cool to see some raw data on this, as in our runs it was that anything burst the wl/wd was on top, but sustained damage the class kinda sucked.

~ Midan

Quote from MidanLauert

By how much was it on top? It would be cool to see some raw data on this, as in our runs it was that anything burst the wl/wd was on top, but sustained damage the class kinda sucked.

~ Midan

- one argument was saying 2 dps isn't a good example, but having more dps would usually make the burst classes stronger than class being alone, if wl/wd sustain feels bad for you, (example: warden/warrior sucks on sustain, but it is quite strong class if your party is crowded because it has good burst and you don't need to use your sustained damage if raid is fast enough) because you won't have much time to use your sustained damage, mobs will die too fast anyways

- with 3-4 (good) dps, you can't see the max potential of class, you can see only quickness of the class and the player which is being like whoever-attacks-first-wins-scrut, same issue applies for mage vs pdps comparison. 2 mage can clear rofl in 50 minutes, 2 pdps can clear rofl in 50 minutes, 1 mage and 1 pdps can clear it in 50 minutes too but mage can't win against pdps because class itself is slow.

you wouldn't need much sustain if your class is destroying entire crowd alone during burst without needing a 2nd dps, yet scrut example of sacred is using most of "sustain" of the class and that proves that either wl/wd has better sustain than s/w or bursts of class is incredibly broken and compensating the lack(no :D) of its sustain

mathematically, more player = lesser gap between damage of each person = whoever burst first, gets most benefit out of it and rest will share the damage of rest of creatures unless you order your burst instead of wasting it at same mob crowd with your entire raid.

my opinion is; if wl/wd wasn't incredibly strong in your crowded parties, that might mean this;

state: your dps in raid are playing dps just to destroy damage of other damage dealers instead of trying to run faster by bursting in order.

reason: the player who is playing the class is not trying, or being unsuccessful due to being slow, to "win" destroying damage of others.

come on, it was taking 5 seconds to kill 80% of b2 mobs alone and this burst has 90 sec cooldown, why would you need sustain (eventhough im still saying it don't have bad sustain) with such low cooldowns XD

please, if you aren't playing the class by yourself, don't comment on class by comparing players in your raid because you have no idea how people are playing their classes and what kind of mistakes they are making. anyways scrut example of sacred doesn't give any reliable info about mentioned classes because it don't have details of each part of instance.

cheers

Quote from espar91

nyways scrut example of sacred doesn't give any reliable info about mentioned classes because it don't have details of each part of instance.

this might be true, however you should also pay attention to the part below:

Quote from Sean

It has to be added that Lutine started the run as R/K and switched roughly after first pull (~400-500kk) and was on the phone when we started last one (~250kk). He did the most damage on Nayat (although 2 sec more and Sere would have been on top), were even on Khat + adds, Jerath: Sere 698kk (1x) vs Lutine 819kk (2x), Balton: equal, Astaroth: Sere 1,4kkk vs 960kk.

We failed to save specific scrutinizers from certain situations and these dmg values are reconstructed from a recording I made and the overall scrut I had while doing so, comparing before-after each boss/situation.

So these values may not be the most accurate ones, but accurate enough to be able to conclude that wl/wd was way too strong overall, also regarding the other aspects Sean pointed out in his post. I believe this was the whole point, weighing in on the ongoing discussion with that based conclusion.

If you want to look at the run in detail and dont mind the casual healers point of view, let me know and I will upload the vid to yt.

Cheers!

Quote from melodic

So these values may not be the most accurate ones, but accurate enough to be able to conclude that wl/wd was way too strong overall, also regarding the other aspects Sean pointed out in his post. I believe this was the whole point, weighing in on the ongoing discussion with that based conclusion.

I think it got lost in the argument that people weren't against the nerf in general but rather were trying to find the scope with which the nerf should happen. Things often get heated here 'cause of misunderstandings and the lack of possibilities in communication via text. I think everyone active in here would benefit from giving each other the benefit of the doubt.

Warlock/Scout

Quote

Fixed Blood Arrow was killing you when don’t have enough HP and wasn’t entering cooldown state when canceled.

The first part is fine now but it still isn't entering cooldown state when canceled.

Greetings.

Hey,

Warlock / Warrior

Slash: Please let Slash restore PSI if you are not in a construct. Many other Warlock classes have a class-specific skill to restore PSI

Would be nice

Greetings

Quote from Sean

Hey,

Warlock / Warrior

Slash: Please let Slash restore PSI if you are not in a construct. Many other Warlock classes have a class-specific skill to restore PSI

Would be nice

Greetings

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sean, i asked for something simular with scouts about blood arrow and was met with all classes are different.

at least being from sacred you dont have people chiming in to tell you the differences in classes and how it shouldnt happen lol

you'll probably get a response from a GM saying " thats a well thought out idea" "we'll consider it"...

lmao

cheers

hello everyone,

Dev, im thinking about druid/warlock, is it normal that heal bonus point, isnt affected when u play with mage gear and works with healer gear ? bug or ?

Warlock/Champion:

Quote

Changed Rage Sublimation to be usable under effect of Willpower Blade and Willpower Construct.

When you use this skill while under any of the 2 states, it'll only use the 100 Rage but won't give you any Psi Points.

General:

Quote

Fixed some secondary password requirements were still not removed.

You forgot to remove the secondary password when you try to delete a char.

Greetings.

Regarding Scout/Druid:

I would suggest to change the skill Elven Eye (ID: 494327) to increase ranged damage instead of critical damage. This class is far behind scout/r, scout/w, scout/ch and scout/wrd and 3 of those better scouts have raid support which scout/druid does not have.

Kind regards

Bug report: Guitar and lute are removing warlock (498555) skill. If you use guitar/lute first and skill later, it just doesn't do anything.

Quote from Madox

Bug report: Guitar and lute are removing warlock (498555) skill. If you use guitar/lute first and skill later, it just doesn't do anything.

Cruvor reported that last Thursday. Seems they haven't found how to fix it yet

Greetings,
I played the Priest/Knight in some guild runs in the last days and I noticed that I lost the 2 buffs from the light fairy multiple times. ("Devotion Halo" (ID:499966) and "Light Guidance" (ID: 499957))
I even lost the buff while just standing around in atlas. It seems like the buff only has a duration of 15min and then goes away and you need to rebuff it.

I tested every fairy type for 30min and it appears that the Wind Fairy of the Priest/Mage has the same problem. The other 3 fairies from the /warrior, /rogue and /scout seem to don't have this kind of problem.

Please fix the problem because it's annoying to rebuff every 15 min the fairy buff..

Quality of life change:
Change on Priest/Mage that the "Windrider Halo" (ID: 499970) and the "Spinning Wind" (ID: 499958) to both appear in the buff bar like you did on Priest/Knight with "Devotion Halo" and "Light Guidance".
The Buff from Windrider Halo is currently just showing the Magical accuracy boost in the buff bar and not the 10% more cast speed from "Spinning Wind" and the 5% buff on heal from "Windrider Halo" itself.

Kind Regards Nghty

ch/d

lv35 elite rune recovery (ID 1490573) does also trigger when a critical recovery is cast, no only rune pulse.

Please fix, because like that playing this class as an active caster is way too strong.

Cheers!

Greetings,
2 things about the Warlock/Druid:
First the HoT from Recover (ID: 1490957) is no dark heal but regular heal instead so it won't get affected by the Dark Heal Bonus.
Second the Surge of Awareness (ID: 1490961) can't be overwritten by other Surge's of Awareness.

Please look into both of these.

Kind Regards Nghty

Warlock/Knight:

Calm Paradox overwrites Surge of Awareness and when you use Calm Paradox first, SoA will just go into 30sec CD.

Hi,

A few words about the latest patch:

Warlock/Scout

·         Reduced Shot damage to 2030 from 2385.

You so sometimes think about what you do, because in my opinion, nerf skills (shot) by about 15% is a little too much at once.

Warlock

·         Reduced Ruthless Judgment damage to 2700 from 3091.

That's how you finally destroyed the Warlock/Warden, because at this point it's already a totally unplayed combination.

Warlock/Rogue

Thank you very much for the changes made here, which should bring this combination to life a bit.

Greetings

K/S

Yesterday I tested the Knight/Scout in ROFL an was a bit surprised by that combination, which was better than expected, but not really as good as most others. I collected some feedback/suggestions here.

Overall the class was pretty different, but fun to play. I see a decent potential in it, especially if it comes to bigger pulls and Crowd Control, which can be done very well with Holy Chains and the elite skills arrows. But therefor it requires some adaption in my opinion. The one big advantage of this class is its range, which unfortunately can't be used efficiently yet.

Greetings,

Fixed Devotion Halo had 15 minutes of duration.

The Wind Fairy from the Priest/Mage still has the same problem with "Windraider Halo" ID:499970 like before the latest patch. It still loses its buff after 15 minutes.

Please look into that.

Couple questions regarding Priest/Rogue:
I noticed that you have a chance of "Toxic Feedback" ID: 499961 to trigger every time the "Snake Curse" ID:499975 does damage. (every 2 seconds)
Is this intented? If yes it would be nice to get the description of "Snake Curse" changed because currently there is no description at all about the trigger effect listed in "Snake Curse".

Furthermore the German description of "Toxic Feedback" is wrong:

The second last word "zu" doesn't need to be there.

Last when the "Toxic Feedback" is triggered. The description of the buff in your buff bar is very misleading. In English and German.

(Sorry in advance for the different sizes of the pictures :/)

In both buff descriptions it says that the next healing spell will be instant but it only works for "Heal" ID:499976 how it supposed to be. It would be very nice to change the description of them too.

Kind Regards Nghty

Quote from Marcellos

Hi,

A few words about the latest patch:

Warlock/Scout

·         Reduced Shot damage to 2030 from 2385.

You so sometimes think about what you do, because in my opinion, nerf skills (shot) by about 15% is a little too much at once.

Warlock

·         Reduced Ruthless Judgment damage to 2700 from 3091.

That's how you finally destroyed the Warlock/Warden, because at this point it's already a totally unplayed combination.

Warlock/Rogue

Thank you very much for the changes made here, which should bring this combination to life a bit.

Greetings

Display More

I am a bit sceptic about sentences like "finally destroyed" etc.

I've seen WL/s and WL/wrd in the last days, which did insane sustain damage compared to gear and other classes. If you outdamage a full golden geared class with full red in sustain, something is wrong. Even if you can oneshot trash mobs with only 2 min CD skills with full golden gear. Never saw other classes can do it. Maybe the burst damage is not so insane conpared to leather/chain classes but you really don't need full burst, if you can burst every 2 minutes.

I would suggest compare with other players. Maybe you did something wrong playing the class

Quote from Marcellos

You so sometimes think about what you do, because in my opinion, nerf skills (shot) by about 15% is a little too much at once

That's what I'm also talking about. Imo the nerfs are very big every patch. Way too big not to let a meta evolve, even if the changes are useful. in the long run. However, Warlock was definitely too strong and xLutinex is right - you don't even need golden gear to compete with golden geared dps classes.

Imo the ISS are the reason for this, not the classes themselves, but I'm not really as much as required into the warlock to have an idea of this. From my feelings, you should change some of its dark damage bonuses into matt. A guild mate stacked dark damage to over 1300%, which was insane, that's not possible with any other class afaik. I mean, I love the concept of warlocks, but maybe the calculations (for dark damage) should need a rework.

Quote from Marcellos

That's how you finally destroyed the Warlock/Warden, because at this point it's already a totally unplayed combination.

i played wl/wd with severed consciousness instead of ruthless judgment, its still overpowered, don't worry

Greetings,
On Scout/Druid when you have "Focus" ID:494529 buffed and you activate "Boiling Blood" ID:494327 then your physical attack doesn't get increased. But when you activate "Blood Arrow" ID:490434 while having Focus active your physical attack gets increased.

Edit: Maybe it is because boiling blood is increasing your physical dmg and not your ranged weapon damage?

Kind Regards

About d/r:

-Speed catalysis, Temporarily raises the attack speed and casting speed of party members within a range of 150 by 20% for 20 seconds. 5min cd.

I think this old skill should be reworked, is really hard to find a moment where this would help more than harm the rest of the party. Class itself doesn't really need cast buffs so usual guitar and water pot one after the other is enough. This should give something else.

Noone give feedback about druids so I mostly can compare with mdps (the only time I saw a pdps was wd/m and single burst was x2 and x3 in some places than mine, my sustain was better). In general, class is so easy to play and is kinda decent but in overall dmg is underperforming. Aoes are a disaster, I imagine it is because you wanted to make it a single dmg class.

For example, in organs is working really well so single dmg is enough but not having aoes is making it less viable than rest of mdps since single dmg is like the others and not better.

My sugestion to improve a bit that overall dmg without making the single dmg so broken would be, for example, Poisonous widow embrace could do X dmg to a second target. Im open to other ideas.

D/wl: Is decent in all aspects but not good in any of them so overall dmg is way less than other dps. I think single dmg should be improved is where I see I have more problems to catch up. Earth arrow reflect wouldn't be a bad idea to fix this.

Have a nice day, Madoxx.