Delete Chain and split the classes

Maybe include a heal or 2 and some tanks

I know this is a jokepost but maybe this can be an opportunity to talk about why people feel this way. Here are some thoughts open for discussion:

1) Chains cannot compete vs rangedps in Hoto because Chains do not have a pure viable Rangeclass. The skillgap and punishment if you get a small lag or dont stun a deadly aoe from foe is huge in Hoto. There is no reward for making this risk and the result is either less dmg because of careful gameplay or an extra death.

2) Wardens pet design have to maximize Atk even over Pdmg. This is because of the damagecalc of Pets basing mostly on Atk and very little on Pdmg. This is good but makes Warden less viable in Instances where the Petmaster vastly surpasses the targets defense. Try to outdps a Bard/Mage in Inferno as a Chain Warden/X

3) The introduction of Bards gave mage 6, leather 5 and chain 4 new classes.

4) If you raise any concern about Chains vs other, you are immedietly discredited as a dps and people will question you.

Thank you,

Blackkid

Hey i think a lot of ppl have the same feeling about chain classes, and you read alot of player in WC want to trade her chain gear to x-y-z so i am on the same thinking, i absolutly agree on that. Before the Class balancing was starting i was very hiped about some cool chain combinations. But at the end we got way to much chain classes you only can play as tank or even for that the most are useless or they got nerfed to the ground and nobody want to play them. For example The Warden/champion. Why you dont let this class be playable as a tank or as a dps. I mean no Warden atm. Is really woth to play. Every other class will do the same or even better. The idea it self with the tank pet is cool, but there are way better tanks. So give this class a dps pet too, make the setskills work with 2h weapons instead of axe/sword and fix power of the oak ID:493347 was not working with 2h hammer. Correct me if i am wrong, but last time i checked it was not give you any dmg boost. I would also completly rework the Champ/warrior. True it was ever a tank, but for now a Champ/knight for example will do all the same or even better and is easyer to play. Even the champion/warrior needs to get reworked and make him playable as a dps too. My suggestion give him a cool elemental dmg with poision or wind dmg.And let him wear a speer to make this weapon usefuller too. I also think i am sure alot ppl dont want to hear, but nobody plays other tanks because they dont have that dmg reduction what the knight/mage has.I remember Lutine sayed in any post if you have a Warrior/priest in grp take a more supporting tank class! And i agree on that. But in the nostalgia inis for example you dont want to waste a spot for the warrior/priest and so you take the knight/mage tank. So best thing is, Give every knight class a dmg reduction skill.

One more point i still dont understand, why magicals have so many physical classes playable as a magical dd but there is no magical class playable as a physical dps. Yes the Druid/Warrior and Priest/warrior but they was ever pdd. A Mage/Warden with heavy chain gear would be funny with those skills working like the the scout/mage depending on the gear you wear.

Kind Regards

Blaxx

Quote from robopoke

1) Chains cannot compete vs rangedps in Hoto because Chains do not have a pure viable Rangeclass. The skillgap and punishment if you get a small lag or dont stun a deadly aoe from foe is huge in Hoto. There is no reward for making this risk and the result is either less dmg because of careful gameplay or an extra death.

and i dont understand how this could be fixed, ranged warrior? chains have too strong classes and have too much potential, just being less viable in an instance doesn't mean they are weak, bad or useless

Quote from robopoke

2) Wardens pet design have to maximize Atk even over Pdmg. This is because of the damagecalc of Pets basing mostly on Atk and very little on Pdmg. This is good but makes Warden less viable in Instances where the Petmaster vastly surpasses the targets defense. Try to outdps a Bard/Mage in Inferno as a Chain Warden/X

nothing can outdps sustain classes in 5 year old instance, its not just for chains, burst mages or rogues cant outdps any sustain class in inferno too.

Quote from robopoke

3) The introduction of Bards gave mage 6, leather 5 and chain 4 new classes.

after bards; chains have 23, leathers 19, cloths 23 dps classes; so you don't have anything to complain on this as a chain, but i can cry all day for not having enough classes to play as a leather main

Quote from robopoke

4) If you raise any concern about Chains vs other, you are immedietly discredited as a dps and people will question you.

might be because you are thinking chains are weak for wrong reasons, they aren't weak in terms of dps imo

one another thing i would like to raise is chains are imo harder than mages or rogues; i don't prefer to play warrior for their one-time aoe skills being too hard to use for an impatient and unskilled player like me where i fail it alot and end up being last in scrut of aoe burst if i can't land them properly in a low supported raid. this is rendering them weak if your aoes can't oneshot mobs but they have potential to do so, and i believe this is a good characteristic property of warrior; so i would say don't let your class pick you but pick your class depending on your choices and expectations.

cheers

Hello

My experience over the last 2 years as a main chain player is, that we never have to complain in any way until now. There were always enough chain classes which are viable and if you like the kind of how to play chain classes, then you are aware about that.

Almost all wardens, warriors and Champions (dps classes) can compete with all other dps classes. Not to mention, that a lot of them are very overperforming. Of course there are weaker ones and stronger ones but in the end it is your task to adjust your class regarding instance, Support and a lot of more factors. That have to be said.

Additionally you have the opportunity to tank or support on a high Level. Beside you do a lot of damage.

Quote from robopoke

1) Chains cannot compete vs rangedps in Hoto because Chains do not have a pure viable Rangeclass. The skillgap and punishment if you get a small lag or dont stun a deadly aoe from foe is huge in Hoto. There is no reward for making this risk and the result is either less dmg because of careful gameplay or an extra death.

Cant confirm this. Maybe try champion/... or druid/warrior.

Greetings

Quote from JockelR

Quote from espar91

and i dont understand how this could be fixed, ranged warrior? chains have too strong classes and have too much potential, just being less viable in an instance doesn't mean they are weak, bad or useless

D/W is basicly a ranged warrior and perfect for hoto with a lot of skills having a 90 range

also smaller groups are perfect for d/w.

That is true, but if you wanna have the maximum potential of this class, then you have to stay in whitehit range because of rage regeneration and your heal.

Greetings

Thanks for the feedback..

I did not know that D/W 90 rangeskills is enough to avoid Hoto -Aoes. I will try next time.

Blackkid

The game, generally, is pretty hostile to the melees atm. It is just especially noticeable as chain equipment doesn't have an easy swap to a fully ranged class.

Melees have always been in more danger, but chain classes had much more defense than DPS, simply surviving longer. For leather this defense was in the way of dodge, something that became less and less relevant as time went on. With gold equipment having very similar defense values (even between plate and cloth) this advantage got removed without a proper sustitute.

Yes, d/w exists, but the class is scuffed in terms of rage generation if you do not get your whitehits off at least sometimes.

It is a structural issue with the game right now.

At red-gear levels the lack of defense and HP from equipment causes these DPS to just keel over and die if just one little thing isn't right. Skipping this setup and just choosing all range classes leaves more room to optimize somewhere else.

At gold-tier levels the monsters fall so quickly that even the higher damage potential of chain can't really be measured since the range disadvantage these classes have take away a lot of potential damage to be dealt by the chain equipment.

Chain isn't weak DPS wise, chain is weak cause you need more setup. Setup that instead could be used to make the raid better.

Powerful AoEs need a cast time and interrupting them needs to infer a cooldown period. Survival of all classes should at least need some skill. All melees would benefit immensely from that without increasing the damage numbers.